Bills match Bears Offer Sheet for Ryan Bates, 4 yr deal

[RoyBatty is alive]

Nice Job, it might be helpful to include Ryan Bates in the title!

[Virgil]

I'm confused, do we suck again or not? 

 

Seriously though, I'm surprised that was the best deal the Bears could think of to scare us away.  Bates proved to be a solid starter and that will be an absolute bargain for us. 

 

Thanks Chicago

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

2 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

True.

How many teams were looking at the limited tape on Bates telling themselves, "we gotta get this guy!"

😂

 

4. Bears, Vikings, Patriots, and of course, the Bills

[Virgil]

1 minute ago, Tom Donahoe, GM said:

 

4. Bears, Vikings, Patriots, and of course, the Bills

 

Exactly.  He received a lot of attention for an under the radar guy.  He didn't just start, he performed at a position of need for quite a few teams

[Bills92]

BBB said a priority was protecting JA17 this offseason.  This one definitely checks the box.   JA definitely had a rapport with Bates and without any proof, I wonder if not starting Bates most of the season was more of a Dabs decision vs. McBeane decision..   Just a thoery.

 

Go Bills!

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

7-8M is pretty nuts for a guy like Bates. He’s started 5 games and didn’t grade out very well.

 

It's $4.25M a year for 4 years.

 

3 minutes ago, Magox said:

If they did before the tender then they would have offered him a contract.

 

Their hand was forced once the Bears offered him one.  With that said, I still think it ends up being a really good value signing because I believe Bates will be our long-term starter.

 

Bates/his agent(s) probably came to the Bills with an ask higher than what the 2nd round tender was so Beane had him find his true market value.  He got it and matched.

[Yobogoya!]

Seems like a fair deal for a guy with a limited body of work but who has shown upside and really helped our line get it's s--- together to end the year. 

 

When this whole ordeal started I thought it was foolish not to just give him the 2nd round tender and be done with it, but if the Bills wanted to keep Bates long term but weren't sure of his market value, letting him test FA with the security blanket of a first-refusal tender makes the most sense. It's a "player friendly" thing to do as well, which counts for some of these guys as well. 

[Warcodered]

14 minutes ago, Magox said:

 Because if you’ve been a career backup all your pro life and now you are being offered a 3-4 year contract with millions on the table, you become very tempted to take the deal.

The 8.8 million guaranteed would definitely be huge, I mean we just saw the guy that had been ahead of him get signed for only a 1 year deal after having an injury.

[Blainorama5]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

So we all agree, the last off season puzzle piece now in place…we take the punter with our pick at #25! 👍

Only as long as he's an "elite" holder....  😉

[JGMcD2]

10 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

Third grade reading comprehension would tell you I was asking for others’ input on the issue. 

After you questioned the move…

 

The way you phrased your comment was implying the move was bad. 

[Simon Says]

WHEW 

[Simstim]

Most pleased with this. Good deal and OL now decent enough and as importantly, locked in.

 

Just CB(s) to deal with now.

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

It's $4.25M a year for 4 years.

 

 

Bates/his agent(s) probably came to the Bills with an ask higher than what the 2nd round tender was so Beane had him find his true market value.  He got it and matched.

I know… the 7-8M cap hit this year was the talking point.  
 

I agree, it’s not a lot if he turns out to be a solid starter and I like the deal.  But for a guy with 5 careers starts, 8.8M gtd is a nice grab.  This was the best deal Bates could’ve gotten imo.  The offer came from a bad team with a bad OL.  Those teams overpay for everyone. No one else offered more

[Simon Says]

WHEW.  I wonder how they plan to use him. Right guard or is Saffold willing to move there?

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

24 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Definitely not. If they give him the 2nd round tender he signs it and he has a great year, now he’s a free agent next year at 26 years old and getting paid. This was the only way to get this type of deal done. He was playing with fire, but now we have a guy locked up with huge upside entering his prime. 

Could this have been a contributing factor to the hesitancy to play him all year in 2021? Keep other teams guessing at good he can play with consistency, keep his contract reasonable so we could match. 

 

Baseball teams make a similar move often, not calling a hot prospect up until late enough in the year that they can have an extra year of control. It still allowed the Bills to have Bates in there for the postseason run.

[Logic]

1 hour ago, DapperCam said:

So we have...

Dawkins - Saffold - Morse - ? - Brown

And the question mark could be Ford, Bates, or Boettger?

I'm guessing the plan is for Bates to replace Saffold next year.

Based on the contract he just signed, Ryan Bates will be one of the starting five.

The Bills didn't lock him in at $8M+ guaranteed over two years just to have him on the bench.

The starting line is Dawkins - Saffold - Morse - Bates - Brown.

I assume they'll draft a youngster to groom behind Saffold, or to groom at RG if the plan is to switch Bates back to LG next year. Either way, make no mistake, Ryan Bates is getting paid starter money and will be one of the starting five.

[foreboding]

14 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Yes, but the key to the deal was always AAV.  The Bills are up against it, but they still have moves to free up money if they want.

 

I think the Bills would of found a way to match even if it had been 8 million this year (rather than 1st 2 years) - they would of just had to do more moving this year of contracts.

 

The only way the Bears win out in this is if the offer had been at an AAV that put Bates close to where Williams was 8-10 AAV for limited work.  

 

A deal with huge upfront costs hurts the Bills a bit, but gives them flexibility later in the contract.

 

 

Everyone keeps talking about how this deal restricts flexibility. Why can't the bills structure the upfront ans a bonus and then get the average even over 4 years?

[MJS]

So glad they got this done. There were a lot of fans here saying it was fine if we lost him, and I did not agree at all. I wanted him back. Beane's commitment to keep him confirms my own thoughts about him. He is a solid player and can develop into a good starter.

[Doc]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

I know… the 7-8M cap hit this year was the talking point.  
 

I agree, it’s not a lot if he turns out to be a solid starter and I like the deal.  But for a guy with 5 careers starts, 8.8M gtd is a nice grab.  This was the best deal Bates could’ve gotten imo.  The offer came from a bad team with a bad OL.  Those teams overpay for everyone. No one else offered more

What I read is $8.8M guaranteed over the first 2 seasons, not just this season.

[Rochesterfan]

Just now, foreboding said:

Everyone keeps talking about how this deal restricts flexibility. Why can't the bills structure the upfront ans a bonus and then get the average even over 4 years?

 

They have to match the exact deal that the Bears offered.  
 

They cannot just match money - it is the terms as laid out by the Bears.

 

 

[Turbo44]

11 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Yes, but the key to the deal was always AAV.  The Bills are up against it, but they still have moves to free up money if they want.

 

I think the Bills would of found a way to match even if it had been 8 million this year (rather than 1st 2 years) - they would of just had to do more moving this year of contracts.

 

The only way the Bears win out in this is if the offer had been at an AAV that put Bates close to where Williams was 8-10 AAV for limited work.  

 

A deal with huge upfront costs hurts the Bills a bit, but gives them flexibility later in the contract.

 

 

This is what I think happened:

• Beane tendered Bates at the lowest level cuz he didn't think he'd attract all that much attention - this turned out to be be incorrect.
• Beane should have put the 2nd round tender on him.  It would have cost a bit more than the $2m lower level tender but would have dissuaded other clubs from attempting to sign him 'cuz nobody's giving up a 2nd rounder for him.
• In the end Beane pays a bit more this year for Bates than he wanted, but the good thing is they get him for 4 years at a reasonable contract instead of 1 year (having to go through this all again in a year).
• Contrary to what some have said here, I think he did grade out very well in his starts at LG.  Singletary took off around the same time Bates got in the lineup.  Big Q is can he play RG as well as he did LG?  Personally, I have more concern with Brown at LT than i have with Bates at LG

[foreboding]

Just now, Rochesterfan said:

 

They have to match the exact deal that the Bears offered.  
 

They cannot just match money - it is the terms as laid out by the Bears.

 

 

Oh...and no ability to restructure?

[Aussie Joe]

15 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

I think we need to get a guard and center in house this year. I am not sure Morse plays 2024. $11.5M cap and $2.5M dead dead money. Not that I don't think he is great, and he certainly isn't old. But his eggs are pretty scrambled with 5 concussions. He could (rightfully) decide to bow out at any time or the decision may be taken out of his hands completely. 

 

People were saying all of 2021 that Morse was going to retire at the end of last season….I think some underestimate this guy

 

When did Morse have his last concussion?
 

I recall that people have been talking about his concussions since he got here  but he has seemed pretty durable to me these past couple of years..

However…I don’t think he will be here either come 2024…particular at those numbers …but the concussion thing probably won’t be the reason… 

 

I don’t think Center is a need now this season… I would roll the dice and push it out to next year… Assume Bates is the backup C in 2022…

 

 

 

 

[NewEra]

Just now, Doc said:

What I read is $8.8M guaranteed over the first 2 seasons, not just this season.

I know.  That’s great.  We were referencing gunnerbills post stating the cap hit might be 7-8M this year.  

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, Aussie Joe said:

When did Morse have his last concussion?

2019?

[Milanos Milano]

We tendered, then we bated. Beane must be smoking a cig. 

[Alphadawg7]

There is no debating that our OL turned a big corner when Bates entered the starting lineup last year, its as significantly improved.  A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and moving Bates into the starting lineup stabilized the whole line.  

 

With Saffold and Bates at the guard spots, Dawkins and Brown on the edges and Morse manning the middle I think we can expect good things from the line this year, especially with the major upgrade in terms OL Coaching they will receive.

[Turbo44]

3 minutes ago, foreboding said:

Oh...and no ability to restructure?

Correct - can't restructure it until next year.  I really like this signing - I didn't think we'd match and he was really really good last year.  He's got a lot of quick in his game and Kromer will utilize this - a lot of pulling, probably a lot of zone blocking.  Bates and the new LG we signed are really athletic. The guys we cut free, Feliciano and Williams were not.  

[Rochesterfan]

12 minutes ago, Turbo44 said:

This is what I think happened:

• Beane tendered Bates at the lowest level cuz he didn't think he'd attract all that much attention - this turned out to be be incorrect.
• Beane should have put the 2nd round tender on him.  It would have cost a bit more than the $2m lower level tender but would have dissuaded other clubs from attempting to sign him 'cuz nobody's giving up a 2nd rounder for him.
• In the end Beane pays a bit more this year for Bates than he wanted, but the good thing is they get him for 4 years at a reasonable contract instead of 1 year (having to go through this all again in a year).
• Contrary to what some have said here, I think he did grade out very well in his starts at LG.  Singletary took off around the same time Bates got in the lineup.  Big Q is can he play RG as well as he did LG?  Personally, I have more concern with Brown at LT than i have with Bates at LG

 

I don’t think so, but without Beane here - I can not prove it.

 

I think the Bills wanted a long term deal and Bates and company wanted to hit FA - so they would not want a long term deal without testing the market.  

I think Beane knew if he tendered him at the 2nd round and no one bit - Bates would be cheaper this year, but now you have a full years tape and his cost would have been significantly higher going forward - so that was the worse option.

 

Using the right to match - allowed Bates to go out and create a deal that he felt comfortable agreeing to long term and if the AAV was right - Beane could match and the work was done.  
 

If he garnered little attention - you could offer up a longer term deal and if he did get offer sheeted - you can see how it fits.

 

I think Beane played it right and makes Bates happier because he got a longer term deal and more at market value and Beane got him locked in before the tape and Kroger make him better.

 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Rochesterfan

[BADOLBILZ]

22 minutes ago, NewEra said:

 

7-8M is pretty nuts for a guy like Bates. He’s started 5 games and didn’t grade out very well.

 

 

When the Bills first put the low tender on Bates I thought the intention was to basically get him to negotiate his own long term deal instead of the 1-and-done or big against yourself options.   

 

Beane got poled by Poles........but just the tip.

 

I think they were probably hoping for 2 years $7M or 3 years $10M and were probably prepared to do a 3 year $12M deal..........basically the 2nd round tender times 3........... but Poles went to 4 years(not a big deterrent, IMO) and the extra $250K per year(the tip).  

 

There was some speculation on here by those who would draft a guard in round 1 that the deal was going to be $5M-$6.5M aav........but that was NONSENSE!.........nobody pays an RFA that much above the second round tender.     Poles would've looked like an idiot if he had offered that.

 

This situation brought back memories of the Jauron/Levy Bills signing big DL Israel Idonije and G Reggie Wells to offer sheets in 2006 only to have Chicago and Arizona gladly match and thank those dumbassbills for negotiating the deals for them.

[Aussie Joe]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

There is no debating that our OL turned a big corner when Bates entered the starting lineup last year, its as significantly improved.  A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and moving Bates into the starting lineup stabilized the whole line.  

 

With Saffold and Bates at the guard spots, Dawkins and Brown on the edges and Morse manning the middle I think we can expect good things from the line this year, especially with the major upgrade in terms OL Coaching they will receive.

The only caveat is that he was on the left side last year..

 

 From what I have read Saffold is LG leaving an inexperienced pairing of Bates and Brown on the right….

 

Anyway… it’s obvious they like both of them so onwards and upwards..

[BuffaloBill]

1 hour ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

So we are drafting 7 CB's... perfect 

 

 

I would not be shocked to see CB WR CB in rounds 1-3 - then o line depth 4-6,

[Rochesterfan]

8 minutes ago, foreboding said:

Oh...and no ability to restructure?

 

I believe he has to play out year 1 on the deal signed.  I believe if they want to restructure it can not happen until next year.

 

My guess is after year 1 the Bills are happy with the contract.

 

 

[Turbo44]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

There is no debating that our OL turned a big corner when Bates entered the starting lineup last year, its as significantly improved.  A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and moving Bates into the starting lineup stabilized the whole line.  

 

With Saffold and Bates at the guard spots, Dawkins and Brown on the edges and Morse manning the middle I think we can expect good things from the line this year, especially with the major upgrade in terms OL Coaching they will receive.

Agree. Brown needs to improve at RT this year, and i think he will.  Asking a 3rd round pick to start at RT as a rookie (especially one from a small program) is asking a lot.  He struggled a ton, which would be expected, but Josh bailed him out a lot.  Josh had one of the highest pressure rates in the NFL.  It's one of  the subtle differences between a Josh Allen and Joe Burrow.  You pressure Josh and more often than not he escape; you pressure Burrow and more often than not he's sacked.

4 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

I don’t think so, but without Beane here - I can not prove it.

 

I think the Bills wanted a long term deal and Bates and company wanted to hit FA - so they would not want a long term deal without testing the market.  

I think Beane knew if he tendered him at the 2nd round and no one bit - Bates would be cheaper this year, but now you have a full years tape and his cost would have been significantly higher going forward - so that was the worse option.

 

Using the right to match - allowed Bates to go out and create a deal that he felt comfortable agreeing to long term and if the AAV was right - Beane could match and the work was done.  
 

If he garnered little attention - you could offer up a longer term deal and if he did get offer sheeted - you can see how it fits.

 

I think Beane played it right and makes Baes happier because he got a longer term deal and more at market value and Beane got him locked in before the tape and Kroger make him better.

 

 

 

good theory - quite possible

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I’ve been very vocal all offseason about how stretchy cap space is but I have no idea where this cap space is coming from unless some moves haven’t been announced yet.

 

🤷‍♂️

[No_Matter_What]

3 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

No doubt in my mind Ryan Bates moves to center in 23. Presto, cheap starting center.

They just restructured Morse in a way which among other things increased his dead cap in 2023 to $5M. I seriously doubt that he is not in 2023 plan.

[stevewin]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

Edit: it wasn’t me. But you know who you are

Excellent uses of Sunny meme - stevewin approves

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

So looks like he'll only count an additional $2 million on our cap this year (give or take a couple hundred thousand). Not bad at all. We might not need any additional restructures to fit him in after all.

I dont understand how any of this works.....my math is broken

[TheBrownBear]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I’ve been very vocal all offseason about how stretchy cap space is but I have no idea where this cap space is coming from unless some moves haven’t been announced yet.

 

🤷‍♂️

Clearly we are trading Josh Allen for Baker Mayfield. 

[Magox]

33 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

It's $4.25M a year for 4 years.

 

 

Bates/his agent(s) probably came to the Bills with an ask higher than what the 2nd round tender was so Beane had him find his true market value.  He got it and matched.

 

Maybe, maybe not.