Brian Daboll hired to be Head Coach of NY Giants

[Kmart128]

Itd be stupid for Dorsey to leave if he has opportunity to stay and work with Josh Allen. If he stays and offense remains successful Ken Dorsey would be looking at a future head coaching job in the near future.

 

Unless they work some miracle on Daniel Jones he will likely be stuck with Giants and possibly even fired depending how the new regime goes.

[Golden*Wheels]

Was wishing they took Frazier instead...oh well...

[Low Positive]

25 minutes ago, Kmart128 said:

Itd be stupid for Dorsey to leave if he has opportunity to stay and work with Josh Allen. If he stays and offense remains successful Ken Dorsey would be looking at a future head coaching job in the near future.

 

Unless they work some miracle on Daniel Jones he will likely be stuck with Giants and possibly even fired depending how the new regime goes.

You gotta think with the ego of an NFL coach. Ken Dorsey thinks he's responsible for Josh's development. He thinks that his best path to an NFL head coaching job is to just work his magic on Daniel Jones. After all, he's the quarterback whisperer. 

[BarleyNY]

6 hours ago, ßookie_tech said:

Does anyone think that these compensatory picks may be actually costing coaches opportunities? Do you think Miami would rather us not have the picks and go with someone else if it was a close call? 

They are just Comp picks, the hiring team does not lose them.  So, no, they would never factor into the decision. 
 

I’m happy for Daboll.  Good dude, excellent coach and he did great things here.  He’s earned his shot and I think this is a great fit for him.

Edited January 29, 2022 by BarleyNY

[Bookie Man]

8 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

They are just Comp picks, the hiring team does not lose them.  So, no, they would never factor into the decision. 
 

I’m happy for Daboll.  Good dude, excellent coach and he did great things here.  He’s earned his shot and I think this is a great fit for him.

Yeah I know that the hiring team doesn’t lose picks. But let’s say that the hiring decision came down to Coach A and Coach B, and it was very close. And Coach A was a minority within the division, I would have to think that giving a division rival 2 extra 3rd round picks would factor into the decision. I know we all joke here about the Pats getting comp picks, I’m sure it’s something coaches think about too. 

[YoloinOhio]

5 hours ago, Nitro said:

There was some NFL sources stating Dorsey was going to go with Dabol.  I am putting it out there.  Who knows what the man will do.  

At this point, it is just two giants sources (reputable) saying the giants are actively going after him and “in negotiations” - feels strategically leaked and worded. Bills can’t officially offer it to him until the they interview one minority from outside the org. #dorseywatch

[Sweats]

Is it official about Daboll?.........and can we throw in Frazier as a 2 for one deal?

[Chaos]

11 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Why would Dorsey leave if it comes down to a choice between being OC in NY or Buffalo?  And if offered the OC here, it then becomes a lateral move so the Bills can just say no to NY.  He knows what he has in Allen, from everything written they have a close relationship. 

Dorsey is not a serf for the Bills. He is not their OC.  Bills can't keep him locked in by offering him a job. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

That really depends on if Ken Dorsey stays or not IMO.

 

While someone like Mike Schula might know that scheme and has run it before. Who is to say the guy would be successful in Buffalo, even with a unicorn the Bills have at QB. He stunk with the NY Giants in 2018-2019, with Eli Manning (and that was with a healthy Saquon Barkley) / Daniel Jones as his QBs.  

 

Don't know that the Bills should be as concerned with keeping the scheme over finding a top OC replacement.

 

I think it's way too simplistic to say Mike Shula "stunk with the NY Giants with Eli Manning".  Did you watch any of their games?  That was the Ghost of Eli Manning, playing behind a sieve of an OL, with WR who weren't helping him out a bit.  2019 was Danny Jones rookie year, but his best season by several metrics - best TD/INT (24 TD to 12 INTs), enough yards to win football games, best passer rating.

 

But that's far from the only thing on Shula's resume, both good and bad.

[CaptnCoke11]

41 minutes ago, tenderland said:

yea keep poaching are team. I think goin after Dorsey is kinda scummy.  Hope he goes 0-17

Happens all the time in the entire league.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

16 minutes ago, Sweats said:

Is it official about Daboll?.........and can we throw in Frazier as a 2 for one deal?

 

Yes, see upthread.  Giants have announced it "we got our guy"  No.

[Dopey]

15 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

He is gonna find out that not being able to bring Josh with him is actually a big deal

Pretty sure he knew that ahead of time. Geez.

[atlbillsfan1975]

12 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Why would Dorsey leave if it comes down to a choice between being OC in NY or Buffalo?  And if offered the OC here, it then becomes a lateral move so the Bills can just say no to NY.  He knows what he has in Allen, from everything written they have a close relationship. 

The only reason I can think of is McDermott. For me, it would confirm a concern I have, that McDermott was interfering with the offense at times this season and there was rift between Daboll and McD. Dorsey might have witnessed this and/or heard Daboll saying the HC wants this so we do this. Dorsey also might have a better relationship with Dabes. Couple of possibilities. 

[Nihilarian]

6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Oh, please, this is nonsense.

 

It wasn't as simple as a cover 2 shell. That's why it gave Andy Reid and the Chiefs the same massive problems it gave the Bills, and for about the same length of time.

 

Arguing that the later season explosion was only on Allen is pure confirmation bias. If it were only Allen, how come he didn't do the same earlier in the season? He was the QB then too and having problems then too.

 

You want to believe that it was Allen, not Daboll, so even though it's absent any evidence, you just believe it.

The Chiefs had their own problems with a rebuilt offensive line, defensive injuries. I don't know that the Chiefs faced a cover 2 shell scheme against the Buffalo Bills in a 38-20 KC loss in week 5. Or the Ravens, Chargers, Titans, Bengals who they also lost to in 2021? 

 

Mahomes was pressing and attempting to carry his team all on his* own. He was clearly struggling for the first part of 2021. You actually think that every team he faced that gave him trouble ran a cover 2 shell? 

 

Buffalo also had offensive line issues for a lot of the season. This better O line also helped Buffalo in being able to run the ball more effectively, give Josh more time in the pocket later in the season. Actually utilizing the running game with the RBs also helped the offense.

 

For Buffalo, that cover 2 shell was kryptonite and Daboll couldn't figure out how to defeat it. The Bills/Allen came alive in the second half of that Tampa bay game. Quite a bit of that was all Josh Allen. 

 

I also think that McD read Daboll the riot act at that time, or a well placed boot. Nevertheless, shortly after the Bills started running the ball more with the RBs.

Previously, I kept reading in this forum how the team needed a RB, needed better O line players. All that talk suddenly stopped after that Bucs game. 

 

Tell me again it was Daboll and not Allen...as that young QB played near two perfect playoff games!  I do believe it was more Allen! 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2022 by Nihilarian

[Dopey]

10 hours ago, RunJoshRun said:

I agree.  He's coached in the NFL for many years and his first great offense just happened the last 2 years.  And those are the Josh 2 years of excellence.

I guess Josh just picked things up on his own as an NFL QB. Daboll golfed all these off seasons. 

Sounds like something a Josh Allen ball washer says. And we have quite a few on this board. Hope Josh gets his jockstrap back before training camp start. Nice and clean.

[Lagoon Blues]

Everyone bitching misses the fact that both are probably true.  Josh made Brian better and Brian made Josh better.  Josh can and did execute the plays exactly how they should have been run on a regular basis and Brian put Josh(and everyone else) in those positions to do that play after play. FFS.  

Edited January 29, 2022 by Lagoon Blues

[teef]

Good for him.  This is a huge step. 

[Nihilarian]

18 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think it's way too simplistic to say Mike Shula "stunk with the NY Giants with Eli Manning".  Did you watch any of their games?  That was the Ghost of Eli Manning, playing behind a sieve of an OL, with WR who weren't helping him out a bit.  2019 was Danny Jones rookie year, but his best season by several metrics - best TD/INT (24 TD to 12 INTs), enough yards to win football games, best passer rating.

 

But that's far from the only thing on Shula's resume, both good and bad.

The 2018 NY Giants had a 1000 yard RB in Saquon Barkley, 261 carries for 1307 yards, a 5.0 YPC AVG. ODB Jr had 77 receptions for 1052 yards. Yet the 2018 Giants went 5-11. Offense in the mid teens and defense in the low 20s. 

 

Shula was replaced as OC in NY when the team hired a new HC. He has since gone on to be the Broncos QB coach.

 

Yes, he did good with Cam Newton as his QB in Carolina.

 

I guess my problem with the guy is that I don't want to see Josh Allen needing to be the teams leading rusher or among the leading rushing scorers anymore. I'm not saying I don't want Allen to run if needed as it can turn a defense upside down.

 

Five passing TDs against the #2 passing defense of the Patriots in that WC playoff game. Four passing TDs against the Chiefs in that divisional playoff game. We all saw that the guy can rip a defense apart with his arm...

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

The 2018 NY Giants had a 1000 yard RB in Saquon Barkley, 261 carries for 1307 yards, a 5.0 YPC AVG. ODB Jr had 77 receptions for 1052 yards. Yet the 2018 Giants went 5-11. Offense in the mid teens and defense in the low 20s. 

 

Right, so that's not just "stunk".  The Giants gambled that they could still contend one more year with Eli if they beefed up their D, and it didn't work.

 

14 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Shula was replaced as OC in NY when the team hired a new HC. He has since gone on to be the Broncos QB coach.

 

Yes, he did good with Cam Newton as his QB in Carolina.

 

Prior to Carolina, he was OC of the Bucs in the late '90s when they had a run to the conference championship - with Trent Dilfer at QB

He was QB coach of the Dolphins in 2000 and 2001 when they had a couple 11-5 seasons - with Jay Fiedler as his QB - and then when they replaced Gailey with Norv Turner 🤦‍♂️

 

etc etc 

 

My point is that he's got a much longer resume than either Giants or Carolina.

 

I'm not saying he's an inspiring choice or a young hotshot, but that's fundamentally what the choice is:

1) we can go with a young guy who has never been an OC and might or might not be able to do it on his own

2) we can go with a guy who has OC experience, and who isn't currently an OC because he didn't light the world on fire in his previous shots

 

I don't have a good feeling for how much Shula's previous resume is impacted by limitations of the QB's he's worked with, and how much he has an idea on how to run offense and tries to push his personnel into ideas, or how "up to date" and flexible he is.  That's really key.

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

Daboll has been a career mediocrity without Josh Allen behind center.  I expect that to resume as Giants coach. 

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

The only reason I can think of is McDermott. For me, it would confirm a concern I have, that McDermott was interfering with the offense at times this season and there was rift between Daboll and McD. Dorsey might have witnessed this and/or heard Daboll saying the HC wants this so we do this. Dorsey also might have a better relationship with Dabes. Couple of possibilities. 

McDermott is the HC and responsible for both sides of the ball. That’s not “interfering”. 
 

mcdermott brought Dorsey to Buffalo in the first place. If Dorsey decides to go to the NYG, some kind of speculative rift with McD seems the least likely reason. If he wants to just be Daboll’s assistant and not call plays, but paid like an OC, that’s the most likely reason. 

Edited January 29, 2022 by YoloinOhio

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

56 minutes ago, teef said:

Good for him.  This is a huge step. 

NY is going to be a tough media experience for him

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

Dorsey can get himself a lot more leverage in negotiations if there are rumors of him leaving.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

13 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

I wouldn’t be shocked if Kenny Pickett isn’t a Giant and they move on from Jones before the draft 

 

That would probably be a good move for them. They have the ability to do it now due to having both the GM and Coach in place prior to the draft. Unlike the Bills when McDermott took over and Whaley was a GM in name only. If they do pass on a QB this draft I hope Schoen and Daboll follow the model that McDermott and the Bills provided in 2017 by trading back and getting an extra first round pick for the next draft. 

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

I hve no issue Mcd placing Daboll in line and if him and Dorsey had an issue so be it.  Not sure that can be substainated in any way though.   Daboll was headscratching so many times..and at times the  results  were  not good enough.

 

But he rightfully earned the chance to be a Head Coach so it was inevitable for him to leave. Obviously Josh has only ever known one guy.

 

But these are professionals, smart guys who will come in and lay out their offense. I’m not worried about our guys needing to learn new terminology. They have been playing football forever.

 

Mcd just needs to being someone in With an innovative mind. If he wants a safe offensive coach Mcd will be done. This offense is meant to be big play explosive. 

Edited January 29, 2022 by loveorhatembillsfan4life

[Scott7975]

16 hours ago, Bangarang said:

I thought the only thing considered a promotion is getting a HC job. Going from position coach to coordinator is not a promotion.

 

 

 

Dorsey would be a fool not to stay here if he was offered the OC job though.

[BarleyNY]

2 hours ago, ßookie_tech said:

Yeah I know that the hiring team doesn’t lose picks. But let’s say that the hiring decision came down to Coach A and Coach B, and it was very close. And Coach A was a minority within the division, I would have to think that giving a division rival 2 extra 3rd round picks would factor into the decision. I know we all joke here about the Pats getting comp picks, I’m sure it’s something coaches think about too. 

So you think so highly of a coach that you deem him worthy of being your HC, but you don’t think that taking him away from your rival is worth that team getting pick 99 in the next two drafts?  You’re way overthinking this. 

[Scott7975]

16 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I am worried McDermott is a bit obsessed with running it more. He is going to hire a stretch zone guy and make the feature of our offense Devin freaking Singletary.

 

So what you are saying is you are breaking news that the Bills hired Marty Schottenheimer?

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

Think Tierney could be in play for Giants OC. He's got a history with Daboll dating back to Bama.

Ryan Talbot
@RyanTalbotBills
Shea Tierney is another coach I could see the #Bills losing regardless of what Ken Dorsey decides. Tierney was an offensive analyst under Brian Daboll at Alabama and joined him in Buffalo in 2018 as an offensive assistant. Promoted to assistant QBs coach in 2020.

[LABILLBACKER]

11 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

 

 

Dorsey would be a fool not to stay here if he was offered the OC job though.

Not only would he be a fool but it would be a slap in the face to Josh considering their relationship. Would you rather be Allen's OC or Daniel "future backup" Jones'?

[Mango]

Just like any of us in our jobs, sometimes people need the right situation to succeed. I think Daboll and Josh have been good for each other and are integral parts of each others journey to get where they are. 
 

That said, feels good to be a Bills fan in all of it. Having a top QB means I don’t worry about the OC hire, especially if we are able to keep it internal. 
 

I would be much more concerned if we had Carr, Tannehill, Cousins, or even Stafford. Josh just had a historical two playoff games. We will be fine.  

[97bills]

1 hour ago, Nihilarian said:

The Chiefs had their own problems with a rebuilt offensive line, defensive injuries. I don't know that the Chiefs faced a cover 2 shell scheme against the Buffalo Bills in a 38-20 KC loss in week 5. Or the Ravens, Chargers, Titans, Bengals who they also lost to in 2021? 

 

Mahomes was pressing and attempting to carry his team all on his* own. He was clearly struggling for the first part of 2021. You actually think that every team he faced that gave him trouble ran a cover 2 shell? 

 

Buffalo also had offensive line issues for a lot of the season. This better O line also helped Buffalo in being able to run the ball more effectively, give Josh more time in the pocket later in the season. Actually utilizing the running game with the RBs also helped the offense.

 

For Buffalo, that cover 2 shell was kryptonite and Daboll couldn't figure out how to defeat it. The Bills/Allen came alive in the second half of that Tampa bay game. Quite a bit of that was all Josh Allen. 

 

I also think that McD read Daboll the riot act at that time, or a well placed boot. Nevertheless, shortly after the Bills started running the ball more with the RBs.

Previously, I kept reading in this forum how the team needed a RB, needed better O line players. All that talk suddenly stopped after that Bucs game. 

 

Tell me again it was Daboll and not Allen...as that young QB played near two perfect playoff games!  I do believe it was more Allen! 

 

 

Man we never had a QB like this one lol so for me too it’s all Allen dude is a beast , don’t get me wrong OC play dose impact the offense but Allen is going to make plays. 

[Beast]

I wonder if Daboll will raid McDermott's staff on the defensive side of the ball?

 

Maybe John Butler for his DC?

 

https://bufbills.com/player-bios/john_butler.pdf

[Nihilarian]

Just now, 97bills said:

Man we never had a QB like this one lol so for me too it’s all Allen dude is a beast , don’t get me wrong OC play dose impact the offense but Allen is going to make plays. 

The kid is a unicorn. His arm, accuracy is as good as Mahomes...if not better. And no QB in the NFL can run and throw like him. Mahomes can run, just nowhere near as good as Allen. 

 

The Buffalo Bills are so darn lucky to have him!

 

Many fans are concerned that McD will hire a Greg Roman type OC and run the ball more. No way! McD is not a fool as he knows the best player on the entire team is the QB, with that arm of his.

 

Allen literally destroyed that #2 New England Patriots passing defense in that WC game with 5 passing TDs while playing a perfect game. The guy threw more TDs then incompletions!!!

Overall performance grade of 100%! This stuff is what Buffalo Bills fans live for!

 

My hope is that the Bills find an OC who wants to keep Allen in the pocket as much as possible while allowing the Bills RBs to do most of the ground work. 

[Bob in STL]

18 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Good for him.  Best of luck.

 

Seems a decent guy.

 

However I was 50/50 about him.

 

I think McD didn't help the offense at all.

I would like to know how McD didn’t help the offense?  What do you have to suggest this? 

[thenorthremembers]

Love Daboll.  But like Belichick said when a coordinator of his gets a head coaching gig ad starts raiding his existing staff its disrespectful.  

[BuffaloBillyG]

7 minutes ago, Beast said:

I wonder if Daboll will raid McDermott's staff on the defensive side of the ball?

 

Maybe John Butler for his DC?

 

https://bufbills.com/player-bios/john_butler.pdf

Martindale was the rumor for Daboll's DC. Let's see how that pans out...but I think that would be a good pairing.

 

I also think that IF Flores doesn't walk away with a HC job he could be in play as DC as well. NYG reportedly did like him and they both have those NE ties.

[GunnerBill]

34 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

So what you are saying is you are breaking news that the Bills hired Marty Schottenheimer?

 

Haha. I just don't want us to look like a team that is trying to prop up a QB. There are about 7 teams in the entire league lucky enough not to be in that spot and we are one of them. 

[BuffaloBob]

16 hours ago, Joe Ferguson said:

Good for Daboll. Now fire Frazier and give him 13 seconds to pack his stuff and leave. If he says it's not enough, remind him how it was enough for the Chiefs to comeback due to his terrible choice of plays.

I'm sure he will insist on having all of his timeouts, though.😁

Edited January 29, 2022 by BuffaloBob

[HappyDays]

Oh look, Doug Pederson breaking down Josh Allen film.