So....what happened to the O-line?

[Since1981]

10 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

 

BB chose to hang back and not press on defense, which was probably a mistake.

 

 

I really want to hear the National media swoon over the BB genius game plan used. 

[Pags24]

Below is my post from 10/26 talking about Bates.  I've been talking about Ryan Bates for 3 years now.  I don't want to hear any BS from our coaches about "he's more valuable as a backup due to his versatility".  Especially since even when Morse got hurt last year they put Feliciano in at C!?  Our coaches have missed managed Bates, he should be starting every week.  Not saying Sunday was all due to Bates as each player on the OL stepped it up....but I was keying in on Bates almost every play, he was a definite upgrade.  He's quick, great hands/feet and has a natural feel.  Our coaches better keep him in the lineup.

 

Pags24

 

Community Member

20

Posted October 26

I do like Williams at RG and Brown at RT a lot!  Letting Teller go was a big mistake and was unfortunate but what I really can't grasp is this..... one of the reasons we traded Teller was we had added some new pieces one of them being Ryan Bates, I recall reading how much our coaching staff was impressed with Bates right away.  So my question has been for the last couple of years.  Why doesn't Ryan Bates get more reps?  Let him play! 

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

14 hours ago, BobbyC81 said:

Yes, they were.  There was a play I remember where a defender was quickly in Josh’s face.  I rewound and saw it was old #75, Williams, who totally whiffed on his block attempt.   I don’t get it.  Even if you’re physically overmatched, you should still be able to get in the defender’s way for a couple seconds, don’t you think?
 

The concept of pass protection doesn’t make sense to me in some ways.  I get that they like to make a pocket around the QB.    However, the idea of backing up and trying to hold off a defender that’s moving forward seems flawed.  The pass rusher, the aggressor, seems to have an immediate advantage and once the blocker is back on his heels, it’s pretty much over.

 

No Feliciano no Ford

 

 

[Ramza86]

This was their best game I guess.

 

I have no idea why Bellicheat didnt put on the pressure more.

 

Did he not realize adding a couple of blitzers and stunts would have put our oline on their back?

Edited December 28, 2021 by Ramza86

[Best Williams Available]

This is incredible what Dawkins does on this pivotal play. Pancakes 2 guys, 1 behind the LOS then another at down marker 20 yards away!  

Edited December 28, 2021 by Best Williams Available

[Buffalo_Stampede]

There's a lot of communication between QB and OL that fans don't really know about. We're seeing less confusion. Maybe they've simplified things. My guess is that it's a combination of simplifying and Josh Allen putting the OL in better protections.

 

Most of The pressure Allen has faced of late has been Brown getting beat by superior players. Brown fixed that vs NE, although NE played scared to death of Josh Allen.

 

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Bookie Man]

Line played very well. I feel like it was just as much Josh evading dudes. I was surprised when I saw the amount of pressures they actually got on Josh. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

4 minutes ago, ßookie_tech said:

Line played very well. I feel like it was just as much Josh evading dudes. I was surprised when I saw the amount of pressures they actually got on Josh. 

they did pressure him some— but Josh made them pay every time. 
 

Also, contrary to what people are saying here, the pats didn’t just rush 3 all day. They rushed 4-5 consistently, and blitzed and zone blitzed all through the game.
 

I think the line just blocked really well. And when they didn’t, Josh did a great job of making a play. For example, you

should re-watch the huge 3rd and 10

conversion on the last drive. Josh hangs in there, avoids major pressure, and hits McKenzie for a perfect pass. 

[nedboy7]

Hard to have a bad game every week.  Absolutely loved how they showed up thru adversity and played great.  

[Big Turk]

On 12/26/2021 at 8:25 PM, NewEra said:

Helluva performance vs a bunch of dudes that aren’t very good pass rushers.  It looked like Belichick was super bland and never blitzed.  The OL reads seemed very basic.  Played into our hands. 
 

This is our offense when our OL plays well.  Hopefully we can make the proper moves this offseason to make this type of performance the norm.  

 

Except for Judon who is among the league leaders in sacks?

[y2zipper]

It was more a bit of sea change in philosophy that didn't leave the linemen out to dry. Instead of more max protect to give plays more time to develop, they used checkdowns and got the ball out quickly very early to neutralize the complicated pressure looks. It's as simple as the running back goes to where the pressure comes from and gets the ball in space. The first 2 drives were filled with Singletary catches and runs, a jet sweep, a moss catch a gilliam catch and even Diggs caught one out of the backfield. It opens the intermediate passing game up later because the Patriots adjusted to cover the shorter places and Mackenzie started beating his man.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Ramza86 said:

This was their best game I guess.

 

I have no idea why Bellicheat didnt put on the pressure more.

 

Did he not realize adding a couple of blitzers and stunts would have put our oline on their back?

I rewatched the game. I might be off 1 or 2 but I’m pretty sure he brought 5 pass rushers 12-13 times. He rushed 3 on 6-7 occasions. The rest were 4 man.  Never more than 5 or less than 3.

 

Every time they got pressure, Josh was able to work his magic and he made them pay if they lost outside contain.  They actually got more pressure than I originally thought, but Josh just negated it.

[Solomon Grundy]

Freddie, can you help the OP?

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

Except for Judon who is among the league leaders in sacks?

Yeah sorry, Judon and a bunch of sub par pass rushers. 

[Hebert19]

On 12/26/2021 at 8:07 PM, Success said:

They've been pretty magnificent since the 2nd half against the Bucs.

 

Today was amazing.  Allen had time in the pocket on almost every throw.  They were opening holes for the running game.  They were depleted & lost a guy during the game - and played just as well.  And that front for NE is no joke.

 

They're the key. If they keep this up, it will be very tough to stop this team.

 

I've been saying this all year.  Run blocking requires some reps to get into a rhythm.  And once you have that rhythm it makes pass blocking easier because the D doesn't know which is coming.  

 

Pass blocking when the D knows a pass is coming isn't fun.  

 

Run blocking once every 10 plays is hard to do.  

 

Get some balance and they then have the advantage over D line notice other way around. 

21 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

they did pressure him some— but Josh made them pay every time. 
 

Also, contrary to what people are saying here, the pats didn’t just rush 3 all day. They rushed 4-5 consistently, and blitzed and zone blitzed all through the game.
 

I think the line just blocked really well. And when they didn’t, Josh did a great job of making a play. For example, you

should re-watch the huge 3rd and 10

conversion on the last drive. Josh hangs in there, avoids major pressure, and hits McKenzie for a perfect pass. 

They also slide the pocket a bit or josh slide away from pressure.  He was more chill and it helps.  When he takes off too early it's hard to block for that.  

[Big Turk]

16 hours ago, BobbyC81 said:

Yes, they were.  There was a play I remember where a defender was quickly in Josh’s face.  I rewound and saw it was old #75, Williams, who totally whiffed on his block attempt.   I don’t get it.  Even if you’re physically overmatched, you should still be able to get in the defender’s way for a couple seconds, don’t you think?
 

The concept of pass protection doesn’t make sense to me in some ways.  I get that they like to make a pocket around the QB.    However, the idea of backing up and trying to hold off a defender that’s moving forward seems flawed.  The pass rusher, the aggressor, seems to have an immediate advantage and once the blocker is back on his heels, it’s pretty much over.

 

Clearly not since this is the way it's always taught at every level by every coach. With as many people looking for advantages and innovation, if there was a better way, someone would have found it and coach them to do it on SOME level. They don't, so either the rules effectively prevent it(illegal man downfield issues potentially), or there isn't one.

 

Good offensive lines do a fantastic job at this, so I'm not sure how much an advantage it really is.

[wppete]

Spencer Brown is clearly a RT. He was great against the Pats. He’s really becoming comfortable at RT. 
 

 

2 hours ago, Best Williams Available said:

This is incredible what Dawkins does on this pivotal play. Pancakes 2 guys, 1 behind the LOS then another at down marker 20 yards away!  

That is truly scary. Destroying people. 

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by wppete

[BobbyC81]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

There's a lot of communication between QB and OL that fans don't really know about. We're seeing less confusion. Maybe they've simplified things. My guess is that it's a combination of simplifying and Josh Allen putting the OL in better protections.

 

Most of The pressure Allen has faced of late has been Brown getting beat by superior players. Brown fixed that vs NE, although NE played scared to death of Josh Allen.

 

 

I noticed Morse communicating more at the LOS.

[letsgoteam]

On 12/26/2021 at 8:38 PM, Coach Tuesday said:

Dawkins was forced to play after the injury and actually may have had his best game.  Such an odd season.

Covid taketh, and give backeth the ability to play?

 

Bad jokes aside, I agree, he played well!

[hondo in seattle]

I was slack jawed during the game wondering who these ringers were dressed up like Bills lineman.   I started the game somewhat pessimistically.  But when I saw the time they were giving Josh, my confidence grew and grew.  

 

But before we get too effusive, a few points:

*  Apparently, the Pats wanted to their D line to contain more than pressure;

 

*  There were several times that a single rusher broke through the offensive wall - but Josh was able to elude him;

 

*  Josh checked down faster in this game than in some others.

[HappyDays]

Having rewatched some highlights, Darryl Williams still had a pretty rough game. A lot of rushers got through in no time against him and Allen just made an incredible throw or escaped the pocket on all of them so we didn't notice it. The rest of the o-linemen played their best game of the season, no question.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

On 12/26/2021 at 10:20 PM, ScottLaw said:

Yea… they played contain. Seemed way too worried about Josh’s escape ability…. Made the offensive lines job a lot easier. Agree, was an odd game plan and clearly did not work.

To be fair…you really can’t be too worried about his escapability he’s one of the best all time in that area. 

3 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Except for Judon who is among the league leaders in sacks?

Yea they frequently brought 4 or 5 pass rushers and they have a very good front 7 lol I don’t understand why we’re trying to give our offensive line less credit 😂

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

There's a lot of communication between QB and OL that fans don't really know about. We're seeing less confusion. Maybe they've simplified things. My guess is that it's a combination of simplifying and Josh Allen putting the OL in better protections.

 

Most of The pressure Allen has faced of late has been Brown getting beat by superior players. Brown fixed that vs NE, although NE played scared to death of Josh Allen.

 

 

This definitely doesn’t get talked about enough…it’s probably the same amount of guys losing their one on one matchups against the dline but less blown assignments. Some people just assume a sack is mostly caused by the oline getting outmuscled but it is frequently linemen straight up blocking the wrong guys 

[Rochesterfan]

7 hours ago, NewEra said:

I rewatched the game. I might be off 1 or 2 but I’m pretty sure he brought 5 pass rushers 12-13 times. He rushed 3 on 6-7 occasions. The rest were 4 man.  Never more than 5 or less than 3.

 

Every time they got pressure, Josh was able to work his magic and he made them pay if they lost outside contain.  They actually got more pressure than I originally thought, but Josh just negated it.

 

That is what I thought also.  The Pats switched things up constantly, but Josh had the answer each time.  They played a lot of man, zone, and man/zone combos.  They tried to trick and force Josh into some reads, but Josh did well - especially early to throw to outlets and move the chain.

 

I think much like the Bills - the Pats rushed the passer in a specific way trying to maintain leverage on Josh, but Josh was the better player.  The difference between game 1+2 was all weather.  The Bills built a lead because Josh could throw early and often and that allowed them to score.  The lead forced NE to become more balanced leading to TOs. 
 

The OLine for Buffalo played well, but not great - Josh was great.  Dion (with a bit of help) held up well against Judon, but I think Judon was playing contain/spy sometimes - also helping.  The middle still let guys like Barmore get through to often, but there was space for Josh to move and guys open.

 

 

[CSBill]

My answer to the thread title: Ryan Bates!

 

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by CSBill

[Buffaloflash]

On 12/26/2021 at 9:50 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Josh attributed the play to them liking the Christmas gifts they got him

 Josh got THEM some really nice watches and, I believe they showed him how much they appreciated it!

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Buffaloflash
incomplete

[njbuff]

LT Dawkins

LG Bates

C Morse

RG Williams

RT Brown

 

Should be good enough to get the job done against any opponent moving forward.

[Buffalo03]

McDermott just sat them all down and said "Look, we don't wanna waste a first round, 2nd round and 3rd round pick on the oline next year. So, get your head out of your a*ses and start protecting your QB. I told Josh to buy you all Christmas presents but if it doesn't improve, he'll take them back to the store. Fix it. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year". He really grilled them

[RochesterLifer]

9 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

*  Apparently, the Pats wanted to their D line to contain more than pressure;

 

*  There were several times that a single rusher broke through the offensive wall - but Josh was able to elude him;

 

*  Josh checked down faster in this game than in some others.

Just another example of how McDermott out-coached BB.

[Buddo]

Taking those early checkdowns, that got us in very manageable down and distances, made a big difference.

 

The Patsies thought that Josh was going to just try and beat them on longer throws, and they were wrong. It allowed for just that moment of hesitation, that the elite QBs take advantage of.

 

I also thought that the Patsies suffered a bit from their gameplans being of the 'smartest kid on the block' variety, and they weren't. I think that was evidenced by how often McKenzie gashed them, but they didn't do anything different to try and cover him better.

 

Knox's blocking was also exemplary for the most part, and we put him against Judon quite a bit. That was something of a revelation tbh.

 

One thing I would say, is that when the line ended up as Dawkins Bates Morse Williams and Brown, they really looked like a unit. For sure, they got beat at times, that's always going to happen, but what we didn't see was assignment issues, which we have far too often in the past.

 

For that reason alone, I want to see that same lineup be starting for at least the next game. It might have been by accident rather than design, but we might have found our best combination to work as a unit.

[SCBills]

9 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Having rewatched some highlights, Darryl Williams still had a pretty rough game. A lot of rushers got through in no time against him and Allen just made an incredible throw or escaped the pocket on all of them so we didn't notice it. The rest of the o-linemen played their best game of the season, no question.

 

Our Tackles have the ability to be very, very good.  Dawkins is proven and Brown has all the potential in the world.  

 

Morse is decent.  

 

I don't know what to make of Darryl Williams... sometimes he's good, sometimes he struggles.  

 

However, Bates looked like he can hold his own, and if that's the case... enough with him being the forever-utility lineman.  Let Feliciano be the backup Center, Ford backup Guard and Doyle backup Tackle.  

 

Put your best 5 out there.  

[Jerome007]

I think the gameplan is helping them. It has been getting better since the Jets game. It's no knock on the OL that they are not the strength of the team. But before they were left on their own way too much. You gameplan according to your team's strengths and weaknesses.

[Solomon Grundy]

3 hours ago, Buffaloflash said:

 Josh got THEM some really nice watches and, I believe they showed him how much they appreciated it!

 

I saw the note attached to their gifts. It said “Merry Christmas guys!! Now that I bought you some time, how about you give me some”😎

[DapperCam]

1 hour ago, RochesterLifer said:

Just another example of how McDermott out-coached BB.

It’s usually the right strategy for Allen. Contain with DEs and try to get pressure up the middle.

 

Allen was just too good. He made quick throws underneath and burned them.

[aristocrat]

Team was angry the other day. Angry Bills team is a great team and close to unstoppable. Harness that energy and we can win the whole thing. 

[billsbackto81]

On 12/26/2021 at 8:54 PM, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

No offense to all You good posters, but none of the above explanations make any sense. 
 

Bates doesn’t miraculously make the other guys better. Cody Ford has been playing decently lately. There is more too what happened today.
 

Even when Brown was at LT today, they were looking great at every position. A few weeks ago Darryl Williams didn’t even move at the snap— now he is playing great at both guard and tackle? 
 

Morse has been getting blown off the ball at the snap, and suddenly held his own today. 
 

i have no idea what happened, except all 5 guys played out of their minds today. 

It was a combination of the scheme Belicheck employed on defense and our O line playing inspired football. 

I'll give credit to the O line for allowing Josh time to find the desired target or check down, but they weren't exactly dealing with an onslaught of pass rushers. They were better in run blocking also. Not dominating but good enough to keep NE fairly honest. I'd expect a different approach from NE if we play again.

 

[ColoradoBills]

On 12/26/2021 at 11:59 PM, Limeaid said:

 

Been saying that for a long time.  I think he is a free agent soon.

 

Bates is a RFA next year.  I'm sure he will get a tender offer.

[TheFunPolice]

Running the ball just enough to give the DL pause makes a big difference. 

 

When you only pass the DL can just rush the passer and don't even have to think twice.