Somethings GOT to be done a the interior o line

[freddyjj]

Mongo was on bench at the end of game with what looked like an ice pack on his left leg -  Ford had to come in and finished game at RG  

 

If Feliciano is unable to go for while wonder if OBD will try and grab Hernandez from Giants - Beane / Gettleman connection 

Edited October 31, 2021 by freddyjj

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

I think the weight loss was not good for his game.

 

 

 

Sounds like the Bills didn't know anything about it either.  Wonder if they'd have resigned him if they had?

 

O-line play takes some time for players to jell together so not sure unless you were to get a real top star, how much improvement you'd really see at least short term.  You could easily improve depth, but that's not the issue, its the starting guards. 

 

Who knows Feleciano may have taken care of the issue as looked hurt at the end.  That could also more force a trade too. 

 

Morse has looked better than expected and think we're good at both tackles.  In the off season I'd sign a top FA guard and also draft in maybe 2nd or 3rd a center/guard to become starter in 2023. 

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, ProcessTruster said:

ah, Bills Mafia turns into Bills Firing Squad, as predicted.  Let me see... yep, I can set my watch to 5:51pm.   

 

Even after a win.   So predictable.  

If the only thing that mattered about being a sports fan was wins and losses...then there would be no need for a message forum like this.  Some of us LIKE talking more in depth about what we saw, what worked, what didn't work, what can be improved on.  There are many of us who think sports are a bit deeper than just the scoreboard and we like to discuss these issues.

 

You know what else is 'so predictable'?  someone like you complaining about the things people talk about on this forum after a win. 

Edited October 31, 2021 by mjd1001

[JerseyBills]

Feliciano seems like the weak link and today showed how good and valuable Spencer is. 

 

Williams at RG Mitch at C is fine . Gotta find a LG either through trade or put Ike , Ford there . 

 

The great part is we overcame that adversity today and have 2 more weeks vs teams we should manhandle and figure out how to get this OL right for the 1st seed push

Had issues and went on 3 straight TD drives! 

 

 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

48 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

ah, Bills Mafia turns into Bills Firing Squad, as predicted.  Let me see... yep, I can set my watch to 5:51pm.   

 

Even after a win.   So predictable.  

Hey— wait a second! I think we are only the second most toxic fan base! 

[TFBillsfan]

Not sure what you can do at this point. Sweeney was getting destroyed trying to block. Feliciano had another rough game again. Spencer has potential but he got blown away vs. the Titans so IMO the jury is still out.
 

Things I’d like to see more of. Move the pocket more, draws, WR reverses and what happened w Gilliam playing FB/TE. Our running game just seems like it takes too long to develop and it’s very obvious when we are going to run.

[Utah John]

Beane doesn't chase solutions to problems.  He has been successively upgrading each position on the field.  He's finally got the defense manned up the way he wants with the possible exception of CB2.    Now he can move on to the O line.  He found Brown this year and that's great, but guard play has been the weakest link. The Bills are solid enough everywhere that they can spend a first on a beast for a guard, the kind of mauler that Feliciano was before he went all Jenny Craig and got too light to be effective.

 

So I expect the Bills to dance with the guys that brung ya.  The team they started with is the team they'll stay with.  Despite the O line being worse than average, everything else is considerably better than average.  All teams have a weak link, and it might as well be that the O line is ours.  With Allen's abilities the O line does not doom the Bills from success in the postseason.

 

[DC Greg]

It’s actually impressive how bad Feliciano has been. It’s not easy to be that noticeably bad from the guard spot. He’s not just playing “below average.” He’s being completely dominated and committing mental errors/costly penalties on top of it. Incredibly bad.

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

5 minutes ago, Utah John said:

Beane doesn't chase solutions to problems.  He has been successively upgrading each position on the field.  He's finally got the defense manned up the way he wants with the possible exception of CB2.    Now he can move on to the O line.  He found Brown this year and that's great, but guard play has been the weakest link. The Bills are solid enough everywhere that they can spend a first on a beast for a guard, the kind of mauler that Feliciano was before he went all Jenny Craig and got too light to be effective.

 

So I expect the Bills to dance with the guys that brung ya.  The team they started with is the team they'll stay with.  Despite the O line being worse than average, everything else is considerably better than average.  All teams have a weak link, and it might as well be that the O line is ours.  With Allen's abilities the O line does not doom the Bills from success in the postseason.

 

Mongo was never a beast who was comparable to a guard drafted in the first round …. He was always mediocre at best, but fans liked. The nickname Mongo and thought tattoos made him tough. 

[Nextmanup]

I would imagine the O line will receive a lot of attention come draft and free agency time next year.

 

Won't help us this year in the playoffs, though.

 

A minor trade at the deadline on Tuesday would be welcomed.

 

 

[hemma]

Did Bates spit on a coach’s shoe during practice?

The few snaps he gets always seem solid.  

(Next man up/only man left) = Bates.  

Let’s see what he’s got.

[foreboding]

2 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Overpay. Bills should be all in now to win the SB. Who cares about future draft picks when you might be able to get a guy that has already proven to be good. Epenesa, Ford, Basham all second round picks that are doing little to nothing. 

It's time to mortgage the future to win now!!!!

I think it's time for you to go outside. 

[BigDingus]

2 hours ago, TBBills said:

Run the ball less. Stop forcing yourself to do what you are not good at. 

 

Comments like this show this board is bipolar... After the Pittsburgh game, it was all about how making Josh do everything & throwing 40-50 times is going to screw us, and now we're wanting to be one-dimensional again? 

 

Wasn't there a post on here a few weeks ago with a coach talking about why running is important, even when you're only getting 1-2 yards a play, that had a million upvotes & everyone saying "see, this is why we need to run more!"

 

Yet after a bad showing, we're back to wanting Josh to face off against defenses that drop everyone into coverage & hope for the best...

[Scott7975]

25 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

 

Comments like this show this board is bipolar... After the Pittsburgh game, it was all about how making Josh do everything & throwing 40-50 times is going to screw us, and now we're wanting to be one-dimensional again? 

 

Wasn't there a post on here a few weeks ago with a coach talking about why running is important, even when you're only getting 1-2 yards a play, that had a million upvotes & everyone saying "see, this is why we need to run more!"

 

Yet after a bad showing, we're back to wanting Josh to face off against defenses that drop everyone into coverage & hope for the best...

 

I don't think anyone wannnnnts to be one dimensional.  Most just realize the running game sucks so why force it.  Do what you do best.  Thats how I think about it anyways.  Obviously they should still run the football but its just too obvious and lack luster.  There is no ebb and flow.  Daboll does not mix it up.  I don't think he understands the concept of doing so.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Sounds like the Bills didn't know anything about it either.  Wonder if they'd have resigned him if they had?

 

O-line play takes some time for players to jell together so not sure unless you were to get a real top star, how much improvement you'd really see at least short term.  You could easily improve depth, but that's not the issue, its the starting guards. 

 

Who knows Feleciano may have taken care of the issue as looked hurt at the end.  That could also more force a trade too. 

 

Morse has looked better than expected and think we're good at both tackles.  In the off season I'd sign a top FA guard and also draft in maybe 2nd or 3rd a center/guard to become starter in 2023. 

 

You really think thick he Bills didn't want him to lose weight?

 

 

2 hours ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

Even if it has to be a slight overpay Norwell or Hernandez as a plan B.

Im open to it👍

 

Who is Hernandez?

 

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Buffalo Barbarian

[TheBeaneBandit]

26 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

You really think thick he Bills didn't want him to lose weight?

 

 

 

Who is Hernandez?

 

 

Giants G 2nd round pick in last year of rookie deal. Pretty good G that the Gmen probably lose to free agency anyways.

[auburnbillsbacker]

2 hours ago, Utah John said:

Beane doesn't chase solutions to problems.  He has been successively upgrading each position on the field.  He's finally got the defense manned up the way he wants with the possible exception of CB2.    Now he can move on to the O line.  He found Brown this year and that's great, but guard play has been the weakest link. The Bills are solid enough everywhere that they can spend a first on a beast for a guard, the kind of mauler that Feliciano was before he went all Jenny Craig and got too light to be effective.

 

So I expect the Bills to dance with the guys that brung ya.  The team they started with is the team they'll stay with.  Despite the O line being worse than average, everything else is considerably better than average.  All teams have a weak link, and it might as well be that the O line is ours.  With Allen's abilities the O line does not doom the Bills from success in the postseason.

 

I respectfully disagree.  He always talks about year round roster building.  If an opportunity is there I wouldn't be shocked if he made a move. 

[JohnNord]

4 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

The Dolphins are great on the interior Dline. I actually think our Oline did average against them. The gameplan needs to help them out more, and it did in the second half. 
 

I don’t disagree that we need to upgrade at the guard positions, but we are serviceable there. 

I’d love to think that the Bills can swing a trade for an Andrew Norwell but that’s a pipe dream.  Not gonna happen.  You don’t usually find guards at the trade deadline.

 

That leaves the Bills with a few options, given that Spencer Brown hopefully isn’t a long term injury.  

 

1. stay the course with the starting five you have (Dawkins, Feliciano, Morse, Williams, Brown), try to mask deficiencies as best as possible with blocking scheme, and pray that they play better.

 

2. Try switching out Feliciano with Ford, Boettger, or possibly Ryan Bates

 

3. Call up Jamil Douglas and throw him in the mix.  
 

4. Try using Tommy Doyle at RT to compete with Brown. 
 

None of these options are very good but #1 is probably the best choice.   As far as Feliciano, he’s not great but he’s better than the other names on this roster at guard. 

 

 

[Solomon Grundy]

4 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

Mitch is solid and D Williams when he kicks inside was effective in my opinion. But Mongo has been below average. Not tragic like Ford was but a definite weak link. The only issue is that there isn’t much out on the market and the Bills have a cap situation that isn’t the best.

 

It also doesn’t help that good Oline players are usually not on the trade market mid season. Maybe if they get Brown back they can kick Williams inside and put in Ike? Internal options aren’t the best.

I'm sorry, but Mitch is not solid. I'm speaking of Morse not Trubisky

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

You really think thick he Bills didn't want him to lose weight?

 

I don't know,  thought there was some comments made back in the spring that sounded like they didn't.  Or maybe they asked him to lose weight, but not that much??

 

Also kind of interesting that last year sounded like Epenesa lost more weight than what appeared to be a good idea and what was suggested.  Maybe the training staff suggested it, but the players went above and beyond?? 

 

Two years in a row with different players??  Where there's smoke there's fire as they say!  Something's going on??

[BigAl2526]

It's a little better when Spencer is healthy and Daryl Williams can move inside.  I wonder if McDermott could be tempted to sit Feliciano for Boettger so the line would be Dawkins, Boettger, Morris, Williams and Spencer.  Otherwise, I don't expect any other changes until the off season.  It's time for an infusion of some real talent though.

[BubbaT]

6 hours ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

Ike, Mongo, Ford... Maybe it's not the players... Line calls? line coach? Something is way off. Can't quite get my head around 3 different players are all awful at LG... None show any better than the next.

I seriously wonder about the O line coach as well. Regression/no development from Ford (though his initial work wasn't great to begin with), have not been able to run the ball particularly effectively beside Allen, athletic DT's wreak havoc (the hardest games for them are when the other team has a pass rushing, athletic DT), don't seem to know whether they want maulers or movement....I just wonder if the coaching is the issue

Edited November 1, 2021 by BubbaT

[Nihilarian]

Trade for Wyatt Teller...

 

 

oh wait. 

 

The line is a big problem... talent... coaching and talent evaluation. Second and third round picks might work if you know what you are looking at. 

[gonzo1105]

8 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

Is there a big hulking monster free agent guard who is currently spending his days on some remote farm shoving around hay bales and smashing a heavy bag in a barn, filled with rage at being overlooked and waiting for Beanes phone call and a shot at redemption?

 

Just wondering...

It’s funny because their actually is, but it’s weird and I honestly would place a call to see if you can get him to come out of whatever he’s doing right now. 
 

Larry Warford Is still a Free Agent. He’s 30 now and a former 3 time pro bowler who opted out of 2020 then was released by the Saints. He basically took no visits and wanted to start a family. Maybe the chance to want to restart your career with a SB opportunity makes it worthwhile to him. You want a possible top end guard without making a trade, he’s your guy. 
 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29554086/free-agent-guard-larry-warford-opts-2020-season%3fplatform=amp

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

Mitch is solid and D Williams when he kicks inside was effective in my opinion. But Mongo has been below average. Not tragic like Ford was but a definite weak link. The only issue is that there isn’t much out on the market and the Bills have a cap situation that isn’t the best.

 

It also doesn’t help that good Oline players are usually not on the trade market mid season. Maybe if they get Brown back they can kick Williams inside and put in Ike? Internal options aren’t the best.

 

This.  I agree the IOL needs fixin.  I wanted some fixin done in the off season. 

 

But what you said.  Mid-season options are typically limited.

 

Brown is gonna have a learning curve at RT, and I'm not sure Williams was always "on the same page" at guard.  It did seem better than Ford-Williams.

 

Our other guard options on the team are Ike, Mongo, and Bates. 

 

Where's the improvement?

[John from Riverside]

5 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I'm sorry, but Mitch is not solid. I'm speaking of Morse not Trubisky

One of the better pulling centers that I’ve seen concussion prom yes but when healthy pretty good if you put two monster guards around this guy he would see a world of difference in this offense of lineOne of the better pulling centers that I’ve seen concussion prom yes but when healthy pretty good if you put two monster guards around this guy he would see a world of difference in this offense of line

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, gonzo1105 said:

It’s funny because their actually is, but it’s weird and I honestly would place a call to see if you can get him to come out of whatever he’s doing right now. 
 

Larry Warford Is still a Free Agent. He’s 30 now and a former 3 time pro bowler who opted out of 2020 then was released by the Saints.

 

According to Wiki as well as to your link, you got that swapped: Warford was released by the Saints, THEN decided to opt out of the 2020 season.

So the question is why did they release him?  Was it just a cap thing, or was his play declining to where it wasn't worth the $7M salary?

 

He doesn't seem to have looked for a team in 2021.  I'd guess he no longer has the "fire in his belly" to play ball

 

[gonzo1105]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

According to Wiki as well as to your link, you got that swapped: Warford was released by the Saints, THEN decided to opt out of the 2020 season.

So the question is why did they release him?  Was it just a cap thing, or was his play declining to where it wasn't worth the $7M salary?

 

He doesn't seem to have looked for a team in 2021.  I'd guess he no longer has the "fire in his belly" to play ball

 

I think in the Saints case he was like 13 mill on the cap and they drafted Cesar Ruiz early. Idk if he’d come back to the NFL but if your looking for a mid season upgrade from Ford/Feliciano/Boettger without spending a ton of money or giving up draft capital then he is your guy 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, gonzo1105 said:

I think in the Saints case he was like 13 mill on the cap and they drafted Cesar Ruiz early. Idk if he’d come back to the NFL but if your looking for a mid season upgrade from Ford/Feliciano/Boettger without spending a ton of money or giving up draft capital then he is your guy 

 

If he wants $7M, we can't pay him even if he's fully in football shape and wants to play

[bmur66]

Is it me or does their run blocking look the same as their pass blocking?

[machine gun kelly]

The Saints have been in cap hell for awhile.  I don’t know enough about the guy other than he was a pro bowler, but I trust Beane if he thinks he can get something out of this guy.  Having a year off can sometimes be good for a lineman.

 

Its a reasonable thought.  I’m normally not in the trade camp as it’s usually Madden talk, but Mongo has been bad this year and I’ve done around to Ford is useless.  I was the parent giving Ford too many chances wanting their kid to be a good athlete in a sport, but he just sucks.

 

overall, a solid Guard or DT are the only spots I’d consider as viable spots to look at an upgrade.  Not against Star, just a second 1 tech wouldn’t hurt.

[CSBill]

7 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

The Saints have been in cap hell for awhile.  I don’t know enough about the guy other than he was a pro bowler, but I trust Beane if he thinks he can get something out of this guy.  Having a year off can sometimes be good for a lineman.

 

Its a reasonable thought.  I’m normally not in the trade camp as it’s usually Madden talk, but Mongo has been bad this year and I’ve done around to Ford is useless.  I was the parent giving Ford too many chances wanting their kid to be a good athlete in a sport, but he just sucks.

 

overall, a solid Guard or DT are the only spots I’d consider as viable spots to look at an upgrade.  Not against Star, just a second 1 tech wouldn’t hurt.

 

Yeah, we wanted Ford to be good, his draft position, a real need, so we were patient, but he has just not developed. Look for help somewhere.

[Wayne Cubed]

10 hours ago, BigDingus said:

 

Comments like this show this board is bipolar... After the Pittsburgh game, it was all about how making Josh do everything & throwing 40-50 times is going to screw us, and now we're wanting to be one-dimensional again? 

 

Wasn't there a post on here a few weeks ago with a coach talking about why running is important, even when you're only getting 1-2 yards a play, that had a million upvotes & everyone saying "see, this is why we need to run more!"

 

Yet after a bad showing, we're back to wanting Josh to face off against defenses that drop everyone into coverage & hope for the best...

I agree with the previous poster. The Bills are not good at running. The Bills can’t line up in I-formation, which they did several times against Miami, and run smash mouth football. It’s a win for whoever’s defense they play against when they do it.

 

The passing game for the Bills opens up the run game. And in place of the running the Bills need to ‘dink and dunk’ their way down the field. Use Moss in the passing game. It’s exactly what happened in the 2nd half. It then opens up the ability to run. So no, don’t completely abandon the run.

 

The problem is, and this is probably what people mean by Josh shouldn’t be out there just slinging it, the Bills or Josh or Daboll get impatient with ‘dink and dunk’. So they’ll throw some sort passes and then attempt a kill shot. They just aren’t patient enough to continue doing it.

 

I’d also say the short passes help Josh get into the flow of the game. He is not a run, run, 3rd down pass QB. He needs the rhythm of passes.

[Matt_In_NH]

Hopefully Spencer Browns back is nothing serious.   D Williams at guard helps.  

[Coach Tuesday]

Feliciano needs to sit the bench - he has been possibly the worst starting player in the NFL this season. Guard is a crisis spot for the Bills right now and Beane cannot afford to sit on his hands here and hope it magically gets better.  He has mis-evaluated the position his entire tenure.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

If Beane has not been on the phone trying to find IOL help I'd be shocked....... and, it's not impossible he needs to do it

[Thurman#1]

16 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Overpay. Bills should be all in now to win the SB. Who cares about future draft picks when you might be able to get a guy that has already proven to be good. Epenesa, Ford, Basham all second round picks that are doing little to nothing. 

It's time to mortgage the future to win now!!!!

 

 

No, they very much should not. Mortgaging the future would be absolutely butt-stupid. Particularly this early in Josh's career. We've got a decade left in our window. More maybe.

 

Luckily we don't have to worry about Beane doing this. Unlike some on here, Beane gets it. He's made it clear that his goal is consistent competitiveness from his first P.C. Thank goodness we didn't get one of those doltish GMs willing to increase the odds in one year by decreasing the odds in several.

 

 

 

12 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I don't think anyone wannnnnts to be one dimensional.  Most just realize the running game sucks so why force it.  Do what you do best.  Thats how I think about it anyways.  Obviously they should still run the football but its just too obvious and lack luster.  There is no ebb and flow.  Daboll does not mix it up.  I don't think he understands the concept of doing so.

 

 

Yeah, that's probably the reason we're in the top three in points and yards, that Daboll doesn't get it.

 

Good grief there are some awful takes on here, and it's after a win.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

16 hours ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

I bet my life this will be the key aspect that costs us in the playoffs. Please try some kind of trade Beane.

pay close attention 

 

AFC Playoffs. 1/2 game out of the #1 seed

 

 

Tennessee Titans (6-2)

Las Vegas Raiders (5-2, 4-1 AFC)

Baltimore Ravens (5-2, 4-2 AFC, SOV 14)

Buffalo Bills (5-2, 4-2 AFC, SOV 😎

Cincinnati Bengals (5-3)

Pittsburgh Steelers (4-3, SOV 16)

Los Angeles Chargers (4-3, SOV 14)

New England Patriots (4-4, 4-1 AFC)

Cleveland Browns (4-4,2-3 AFC, win over DEN)

[Ramza86]

Been saying this for the last 2 years. Line gets no push and they get beat up when they face a superior pass rusher.

 

Beane said he was looking to upgrade the line last year, but he couldnt find the upgrade he was looking for.

 

I expect next year he gets a little more desperate and finds a way to improve the line. 

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Yeah, that's probably the reason we're in the top three in points and yards, that Daboll doesn't get it.

 

Good grief there are some awful takes on here, and it's after a win.

 

I was talking specifically about the running game Mr. Condescending. Are you going to argue the running game is good?  Im not talking about Josh running the football.  Im talking about our running game with the running backs.

 

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

You’ve been crying about this the last couple years…. What exactly is “mortgaging the future?” That would be pretty hard to do at the trade deadline…. Being aggressive doesn’t mean you are mortgaging the future…. There is a difference than just sitting on your hands because your so worried about cap space(an entity that is completely malleable) in the future….. and it’s the NFL, you can look amazing one year and completely flop the next for various reasons. Thinking the Bills are going to be good year in and year out for the next 5-7 years is wishful thinking. Take advantage of the here and now and be aggressive IMO.

 

He must be talking about picks because I know he isn't talking about cap space.  On BBMB the guy was banging the table for how brilliant NO knows how to work (read:mortgage) the cap and give Byrd that ridiculous contract.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Scott7975