Jump to content

Do WR’s hate Lamar Jackson ?


Recommended Posts

This is why football is such a fun and popular sport. There are so many totally different ways to play this game. 

 

I personally enjoy seeing teams take on entirely different personalities and styles. The Ravens have a way that they want to play football and win games, and it works most of the time with Lamar, judging by W/L record. 

 

When you play them it's an entirely different type of game, and that's fun for fans I think. Probably for a lot of players too. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, 947 said:

Most players want to win, but all players want accolades. Guys making All Pro, the Pro Bowl, & the HOF matters to them. There really isn't any path to even making the Pro Bowl as one of Lamar Jackson's WRs in their current offense, let alone accumulating the yearly or career numbers needed to be considered among the best. Nobody with other options is going there.

I agree, some fans hate hearing this, but money is even more important than winning or accolades. Accolades make a player earn more money though. I think that’s the biggest fear players have with Baltimore. Agents and advisors always look at the big picture. The statistical decline of a season or two in Baltimore is going to decrease the value of a WR, causing them to earn less in the next contract. I think that’s the biggest fear these guys have. Signing with Baltimore limits future earning potential. 

Edited by SirAndrew
  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I was an NFL wide receiver, the last thing I’d want to do is play in a Greg Roman offense.

 

Roman is an elite run game coordinator — possibly the best in the league. But he is an awful, AWFUL passing game coordinator. Really bad.

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Agree 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, glazeduck said:

This article seems to suggest that both offers were 1 year, so there goes my theory there. That said, if the difference is only $1.5M, I don't think it really says that much about him choosing to NOT uproot himself/family/ life, learn a new playbook, connect with new teammates, figure out a new city, etc. It's easy to forget that these are people with friends and families and relationships with their teammates and coaches, and comforts and familiarities... 

 

 

Except JuJu was gone - said his goodbyes - He was moving on - right until his offers were not as a #1, but as an above average 2.  The previous John Brown range 8-9 million.
 

Suddenly when even the Jets offer barely beats the Steelers offer - that’s when he decides to come back.  It wasn’t friends, it wasn’t relationships - it was I got few offers and the Jets and Ravens have limited passing - let me go back to Pittsburgh and see if one more year let’s me move on for more.

 

It is one thing when these guys choose another offer and then give their goodbyes, but when you give your goodbyes before the end of the season and tell your teammates basically I’m not coming back and then sneak back when no one gives you what your agent thought - it is a bad look.

Edited by Rochesterfan
  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Has the media been blaming WR's to excuse Jackson? I don't know if I have seen that. I thought it was pretty well established that Jackson does not have a big arm and struggles throwing the ball outside the numbers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, MJS said:

Has the media been blaming WR's to excuse Jackson? I don't know if I have seen that. I thought it was pretty well established that Jackson does not have a big arm and struggles throwing the ball outside the numbers.

giphy.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, dneveu said:

Dead last in pass attempts the last 2 years.  Brown has 171 targets over 2 years.  Andrews has more.  

One qualifying factor is that in 2019, 9 of their 14 wins were blowouts. In 2020, 8 of their 11 wins were blowouts. Point is, when they win, they tend to win big. That definitely reduces the number of pass attempts. I do realize they throw it less than other teams as a matter of policy, so I'm not discounting that.

1 hour ago, TheFunPolice said:

This is why football is such a fun and popular sport. There are so many totally different ways to play this game. 

 

I personally enjoy seeing teams take on entirely different personalities and styles. The Ravens have a way that they want to play football and win games, and it works most of the time with Lamar, judging by W/L record. 

 

When you play them it's an entirely different type of game, and that's fun for fans I think. Probably for a lot of players too. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Totally agree with this. I love the fact that the Ravens win in an entirely different way than other teams. Homogeneity sucks.

  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

2015, on only 96 targets too.  That was that year where Tyrod was money on the deep ball.  

 

Romans offense never has stuff over the middle.  Didn't with Kaep, didnt with tyrod, doesnt with LJ.  Too much turnover potential, and the offense is built around not turning it over.  QBs buy time, but they take lots of sacks.  Probably preferable to take off and run if the teams in man.  


 

Not quite true - for LJ it is almost 75% between the hashes and in the shorter to intermediate levels to TEs.  Almost all of the throws go to the middle with few actual throws to the outside or to WRs.

 

For Kaep and Tyrod - almost all of the throws were to 1:1 WRs on the sidelines both short and deep.  Much fewer throws to the TEs or RBs in the middle.  
 

Kaep was less athletic and a better passer, but used small percentage of the field.  

 

Tyrod could run, but did not trust tight throws.  He wanted the receiver with a clear sight line and facing him - that was his cue to throw.  Nice completion percentage, but little in YAC.  The first year he was on fire on deep throws to streaking 1 on 1 WRs and that opened things up - as that dried up - so to did his passing attack.

 

LJ is the most athletic of the group and has a good enough arm to make most throws.  I also think his WRs are better than they get credit - they just do not get the volume.  I think the Roman offense limits severely any QB reads and places an emphasis on very specific throws based on single reads.  In Baltimore- those throws are top TEs because of the emphasis on the run.  Draw LBs and safeties up and hit the TEs in the gaps created.

 

What I don’t know is: Could LJ do more with a different offense or is his success tied to the style dictated by the Baltimore staff?  He has not shown a grasp on reading defenses, but is very good at reading individual players and making plays off from them.  Run/pass options, various pass combos based on a DE, LB, or safety - he can read and react to those.  Drop him back and force him to read a defense and find open spots - he is not there yet - the question is it Roman holding him back (WR route combos, formations, and scheme) or is it LJ and Roman is maximizing his ability - LJ just does not realize that yet.

 

Kaep and Tyrod were both maximized under Roman (and his scheme) and did not improve under other staffs.  LJ is still young, but he is missing his prime learning time and think he will also maximize under Roman.

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:


 

Not quite true - for LJ it is almost 75% between the hashes and in the shorter to intermediate levels to TEs.  Almost all of the throws go to the middle with few actual throws to the outside or to WRs.

 

For Kaep and Tyrod - almost all of the throws were to 1:1 WRs on the sidelines both short and deep.  Much fewer throws to the TEs or RBs in the middle.  
 

Kaep was less athletic and a better passer, but used small percentage of the field.  

 

Tyrod could run, but did not trust tight throws.  He wanted the receiver with a clear sight line and facing him - that was his cue to throw.  Nice completion percentage, but little in YAC.  The first year he was on fire on deep throws to streaking 1 on 1 WRs and that opened things up - as that dried up - so to did his passing attack.

 

LJ is the most athletic of the group and has a good enough arm to make most throws.  I also think his WRs are better than they get credit - they just do not get the volume.  I think the Roman offense limits severely any QB reads and places an emphasis on very specific throws based on single reads.  In Baltimore- those throws are top TEs because of the emphasis on the run.  Draw LBs and safeties up and hit the TEs in the gaps created.

 

What I don’t know is: Could LJ do more with a different offense or is his success tied to the style dictated by the Baltimore staff?  He has not shown a grasp on reading defenses, but is very good at reading individual players and making plays off from them.  Run/pass options, various pass combos based on a DE, LB, or safety - he can read and react to those.  Drop him back and force him to read a defense and find open spots - he is not there yet - the question is it Roman holding him back (WR route combos, formations, and scheme) or is it LJ and Roman is maximizing his ability - LJ just does not realize that yet.

 

Kaep and Tyrod were both maximized under Roman (and his scheme) and did not improve under other staffs.  LJ is still young, but he is missing his prime learning time and think he will also maximize under Roman.

 

Talented TEs definitely help.  I feel like the WR route tree is like fly, hitch, out, comeback.  And that reads into the high low  half field read.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Doc said:

Yeah they won't get any WRs to go there unless they sorely overpay them.  That offense runs through the TEs and RBs.

 

Agreed - and why would they pay big for a WR when they can’t validate the expenditure.

 

A tough spot for them moving forward. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't say if they hate Lamar Jackson - by all accounts he's a super-nice guy so I don't know why any player would hate him

 

BUT

 

Greg Roman's offenses have been suspect for passing for a LONG time

 

Take a look.  3 different teams.  4 different QBs.  Passing offense climbed out of the bottom 5 one season out of 8 - 2012 (which happened to be the year the 49ers went to the Superbowl)

 

image.thumb.png.a6d04159b45639992688b5a56d656b03.png

 

When he was in Buffalo, there were several regulars here who were critics of his pass game designs.

 

Now that said - Culley was their "passing game coordinator" and maybe they'll bring in someone who can mesh and work better with Roman and design a better passing offense. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, glazeduck said:

This article seems to suggest that both offers were 1 year, so there goes my theory there. That said, if the difference is only $1.5M, I don't think it really says that much about him choosing to NOT uproot himself/family/ life, learn a new playbook, connect with new teammates, figure out a new city, etc. It's easy to forget that these are people with friends and families and relationships with their teammates and coaches, and comforts and familiarities... 

Ben will get him the ball though, which could lead to a bigger future contract.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Maybe Someday said:

He only threw for 2757 yards last year in 15 games. 5 games with over 200 yards and only 1 over 250.  A WR hoping to earn a big payday will not go there. 
 

He’s a faster Tyrod Taylor. 

I like Tyrod, but Jackson is 10 times better than Tyrod. And as I said above, homogeneity sucks. The NFL's problem is that everyone runs a version of the same offense -- except for a couple of teams, most conspicuously the Ravens. I sincerely love the fact that there's a team not running a generic pro-style offense that's actually effective. To reiterate, sameness is boring.

Edited by dave mcbride
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What WR likes to sprint all over the place to get just a few balls here and there? And they get the big $$$ with big numbers. Ravens and Lamar are run happy and it fits them well. I'd love to play OL or TE there. WR? Hell no LOL

 

 

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Greg Roman's offenses have been suspect for passing for a LONG time


When he was in Buffalo, there were several regulars here who were critics of his pass game designs.

It was actually weird how creative the run plays were (and I wonder why it's not copied more!) yet the pass game was dumb. Recall how he used Watkins as a decoy all the time?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, H2o said:

I put much of the fault on Roman's schemes as much as Jackson. He's very vanilla in the passing game, so much so that Jackson and others talked about how defenses knew what plays they were going to run pre-snap. The only WR ever to get 1,000 yds in a Roman offense was Michael Crabtree, one time, if I am not mistaken. 


H2O, I don’t know.  Sometimes, OC’s construct offenses around their talent.  Lamar doesn’t seem to be able to throw well outside the hash marks.  I don’t know the details of why these guys declined the Ravens, but Lamar has limitations.  That speed will run out someday.  He needs to improve like Allen did the last three years.  
 

Maybe Roman is vanilla, maybe Jackson hit his ceiling, maybe it’s nothing.  I don’t know.  I just haven’t seen improvement out of the QB in three years.  I’m happy for his success, and I don’t have an issue with the Ravens.  I’ve always respected Harbaugh as a coach.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

Juju Smith Shuster turned down more money from the Ravens to stay in Pittsburgh.  
 

TY Hilton has also declined signing a huge multi year deal with the Ravens today.  
 

The media always placing Lamars failures on the wideouts seems to be scaring new targets away.  

Why would a WR like a RB throwing them the ball?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:


H2O, I don’t know.  Sometimes, OC’s construct offenses around their talent.  Lamar doesn’t seem to be able to throw well outside the hash marks.  I don’t know the details of why these guys declined the Ravens, but Lamar has limitations.  That speed will run out someday.  He needs to improve like Allen did the last three years.  
 

Maybe Roman is vanilla, maybe Jackson hit his ceiling, maybe it’s nothing.  I don’t know.  I just haven’t seen improvement out of the QB in three years.  I’m happy for his success, and I don’t have an issue with the Ravens.  I’ve always respected Harbaugh as a coach.  

I agree on Jackson's limitations at this point. I have spoken about them before. He's not the sharpest tool in the shed though he is an amazing athlete, seemingly good guy, and by all accounts a great teammate. A lot of his completions come when a play is breaking down and he finds one of his 6'4" guys breaking loose from coverage. The running threat is what opens up most of his opportunities. He does struggle throwing the ball outside of the hashes and has since college. He's also a bit erratic with the deep ball. I have never seen him sit in the pocket and dissect a defense. That may never end up being his game. Roman is still responsible for the route trees he asks the WR's to run and they have been vanilla for years now. Extremely predictable. It was that way in SF, it was that way here, and it's now that way in Baltimore. The difference in Baltimore is he has a generational athlete playing QB that still makes the offense successful. If they don't get more creative with what they do, if they don't push Lamar to grow as a QB, then their ceiling is what you see right now. A perennial playoff team who always comes up short. That's just my 2. 

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think they hate Lamar its the system.

 

In 46 career games he has thrown 947 times or 20.5 throws per game even if 50% of his targets were to WR that would be 10 targets between 2 or3 guys.

 

The thing is we all know 75% of his passes are to RB's or TE's meaning 5.5 targets a game to WR's

 

I would not be a very happy camper busting my but blocking on most plays and running full tilt on 20 others to get the ball 2 or 3 times.

 

As someone said earlier they had better draft well ;)

Edited by JMF2006
r in very typo
  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I think they know that is not a place where WRs flourish so unless it’s a giant multi year deal, their value could diminish for next year (when more money will be a available) by going there for one year. It’s partly lamar’s playing style and partly that Roman offense in general. 

 

Yep. I end up saying or agreeing with whoever said this a lot. Roman can scheme up a heck of a run game but his passing game is lacking, and it always has. That's what got him booted out of San Francisco and Buffalo. Wherever he goes, that team becomes #1 in rush attempts and dead last in pass attempts. And I've seen more than a few players say that it's not too difficult to defend his passing schemes. 

 

Roman always seems to catch fire early on with whatever team he ends up on, but within a season or two, teams really start to figure out what he's doing and eventually his stuff stops working. I wonder if we'll see that this season in Baltimore. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/26/2021 at 10:33 AM, papazoid said:

why would a wr sign a 1 yr deal on team knowing his targets will be low

 

Because a team was desperate and offered far and away the best money.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/25/2021 at 11:33 AM, dneveu said:

 

Anquan boldin, and sammy watkins

Who’s out injured first? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, TailgateChef said:

Apologies on digging up an old thread.  Too craven to start my own, but looking for thoughts and speculations.

Simple question:  Who signs an extension first, Josh or Lamar?


 

Since you dredged up this old thread - my guess is Josh signs first and for more.

 

Unless the Ravens get a deal - I would hold off and use the 5th year option on Lamar.  My guess is if/when they come up short again - Roman is gone and you will see a more traditional offense come in and they will want the 5th year option to see how he adjusts.

 

I don’t think the Ravens are upset with Jackson - I am not sure if they know he can be the future in a more pass friendly offense and they are struggling to become more pass friendly because WRs bail wanting more targets and his athletic nature combined with a stout defense piles up wins in the regular season.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/25/2021 at 11:15 AM, Shaw66 said:

I don't know if they hate Jackson, but these guys saying no to Baltimore doesn't surprise me. 

 

In the thread I started that people loved to hate, I said that you can't build a winner with a running quarterback.  

 

People said, "well, just give him some good receivers, and you'll see that offense take off."  Well, if you're a good receiver, why would you want to go to a team where your job is to be a threat that helps open up the running game?   Why would you want to go to a team that has a guy who has never shown that he can be a top-end passer?   You wouldn't.  

 

Why did John Brown go to Baltimore instead of Buffalo?   Because Baltimore had Flacco and Buffalo had an unproven rookie.   Why did he leave Baltimore for Buffalo?   Because Flacco lost the job Jackson and Allen demonstrated that he could really throw it, that's why. 

 

Why did Sanders leave New Orleans for Buffalo?  Why not Baltimore?   It's obvious.  Stefon Diggs and Emanuel Sanders want to play with a pocket passer who can complete every pass in the playbook, not with a guy who wants to run the ball twenty times a game.  

Hey, I love seeing Josh running for 100+ yards a game!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

Man, a lot of Bills fan are so cocky forgetting where we've been the past 20 years pre-Allen 

That is cool but the past 20 years don't ***** matter. Get with the now...

Edited by TBBills
  • Like (+1) 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

Man, a lot of Bills fan are so cocky forgetting where we've been the past 20 years pre-Allen 

 

Who cares about the past 20 years?  It's our time to shine and it is long overdue.  

 

And how is that cocky?  It is the truth.  They run the ball more than any team and have a remedial passing game like an 8th grader would draw up.

  • Like (+1) 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it would be possible to win the super bowl investing 85 percent of the cap on D 15 percent on O. You would fill out the roster with Tyrod Taylor at QB with elite ball security skills and a bunch a gadget play and running offense journeymen. Then bring in Chan to manufacture 23 pts/game with two elite edge rushers giving you short fields all day. 

Edited by Charles Romes
Link to comment
Share on other sites

LJ8 is by all accounts SUPER LIKABLE but they are a Run-1st and Run-2nd kind of team.

 

He obviously has limitations and throwing to the boundary is unfortunately (for them) one of them.
 

F the Ravens! 😄

Edited by r00tabaga
Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...