"20 other QB's in the league could have won w/ the Bucs on Sunday"

[Success]

I saw this comment on twitter.  Thoughts?

 

I might not agree w/ 20 - but I'd say 10 or so.  In the aftermath, the focus is Brady, Brady, Brady, and he got the MVP (as QB's do).  Obviously, there is something to the fact that he has led his team to that game so many times over the years, and doing it again at 43 is newsworthy & noteworthy.

 

He played okay.  He had a good 1st half.  If KC's offense had played like KC's offense, he wouldn't have played well enough to get the win.  And this was following a 3 pick half in the NFCCG.

 

Imo, that defense deserves 80% or so of the credit for the W. And even more in the NFCCG.

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Success

[nato7412]

Not sure about that, Brady did not will them to victory but he was a very big part of it. Id argue they'd only have won it with a few other qbs for the whole playoffs, Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson, maybe Watson, Dak or Josh. In the super bowl only yeah a lot of qbs could've won that game with the bucs

Edited February 9, 2021 by nato7412

[MJS]

The Chiefs scored 9 points. I think most offenses in the league could have mustered more than that, so yeah, I think that's accurate. But I'm not sure how many offenses or QB's would have put up that many points. Only a few offenses would have done that.

[GETTOTHE50]

Nope, only tommy had a chance. No one else would get those flags to give them second and third chances. No one benefits from the officials like him- especially in crucial moments. 

[st pete gogolak]

I always have believed it’s an interesting thought experiment to imagine the QB’s switching teams and seeing whether this would have changed outcome of game.  This goes all the way back to Bills - Cowboys Super Bowls.  If Kelly was QBing Cowboys and Aikman QBing Bills, would have it changed the outcome?  Clearly not.   What if Mahones was QBing Bucs and Brady Chiefs?  Would it had changed the outcome?  Only in sense that final score would have been about 50 - 0.   Yeah, I think 15 or more QB’s would have won that game for the Bucs.

[Rico]

Could be, I thought the Rat’s meltdown was the bigger story from the game.

[Chicken Boo]

His last 2 Super Bowls victories, his defenses haven't allowed a single TD.

[4_kidd_4]

But they didn’t. And that’s that.

[Doc]

Maybe half the NFL.

[Chicken Boo]

5 minutes ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

No one benefits from the officials like him- especially in crucial moments. 

 

That's a fact.  

 

I remember Bills - Pats games where Buffalo would finally get a stop on 3rd down only for a ticky tack illegal contact penalty to wipe that out and give the Pats a cheap 1st down.  It was infuriating!

[Brennan Huff]

The Tampa defense 100% won them the Super Bowl. They were in Mahomes face all game. We had absolutely zero pass rush against Kansas City. That was the only difference 

[Success]

1 minute ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

That's a fact.  

 

I remember Bills - Pats games where Buffalo would finally get a stop on 3rd down only for a ticky tack illegal contact penalty to wipe that out and give the Pats a cheap 1st down.  It was infuriating!

 

There were penalties that I still remember to this day.  The one on Hughes where I think his hand brushed by Brady's head w/ a few inches to spare & got 15 yards. There was also a game where we were playing pretty competitively w/ them, and Brady got 3 PI's in or near the endzone in the 1st half, that basically put the game out of reach early.  And they were all ticky tacky.

 

It seemed very one-sided over the years, and that's even w/ acknowledging that I can be as much of a homer as anyone when it comes to officiating.  It was tough when they were so much better than us - they didn't need the extra lift from the officiating.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 minutes ago, Success said:

I saw this comment on twitter.  Thoughts?

 

I might not agree w/ 20 - but I'd say 10 or so.  In the aftermath, the focus is Brady, Brady, Brady, and he got the MVP (as QB's do).  Obviously, there is something to the fact that he has led his team to that game so many times over the years, and doing it again at 43 is newsworthy & noteworthy.

 

He played okay.  He had a good 1st half.  If KC's offense had played like KC's offense, he wouldn't have played well enough to get the win.  And this was following a 3 pick half in the NFCCG.

 

Imo, that defense deserves 80% or so of the credit for the W. And even more in the NFCCG.

 

As far as the contributions of pure QB play - maybe not 20, but 5 or 6, certainly.

 

As far as the winning drive and the leadership that seemed to have elevated the team -

 

I heard an anecdote, not remembering where now, that one of the Bucs players was crying with happiness in the celebratory Bucs locker room after winning the NFC championship.  Brady saw it and yelled at him:

 

"What the ***** are you crying about?  We ain't done nothing yet.  After we win next game, then you can cry."

 

I used to under-rate the effect of that kind of leadership on a team but now I see it's important and should not be under-rated.

 

I personally think that one factor which may have lost us the game was that the Bills kind of had their "Party Hats" on to be going to the AFC Championship game, and didn't pull them off fast enough and get back to grinding.

 

[atlbillsfan1975]

Each game has its own life in a way. Without Brady who knows what KC dials up for their defense, or how Mahomes and the offense for KC plays. A few plays here or there may have changed the way that game flowed. 
In the context of what happened Sunday, I’d say 10-12 QB’s could of done the same things Brady did. 

[Jauronimo]

18 minutes ago, nato7412 said:

Not sure about that, Brady did not will them to victory but he was a very big part of it. Id argue they'd only have won it with a few other qbs for the whole playoffs, Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson, maybe Watson, Dak or Josh. In the super bowl only yeah a lot of qbs could've won that game with the bucs

There are only 2 or 3 QBs who can put up double digit points in this league.

[FireChans]

24 minutes ago, Success said:

I saw this comment on twitter.  Thoughts?

 

I might not agree w/ 20 - but I'd say 10 or so.  In the aftermath, the focus is Brady, Brady, Brady, and he got the MVP (as QB's do).  Obviously, there is something to the fact that he has led his team to that game so many times over the years, and doing it again at 43 is newsworthy & noteworthy.

 

He played okay.  He had a good 1st half.  If KC's offense had played like KC's offense, he wouldn't have played well enough to get the win.  And this was following a 3 pick half in the NFCCG.

 

Imo, that defense deserves 80% or so of the credit for the W. And even more in the NFCCG.

 

No Brady means no Gronk and means no AB.

 

So no.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

It's hard to say. 1 mistake by the QB can change a game. 1 fumble, 1 INT, 1 missed 3rd down read. 1 missed redzone TD. 

 

Refs also impact in the same way. They did impact the game. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Buffalo_Stampede

[warrior9]

Chris Godwin - 2 catches 9 yards

Mike Evans- 1 Catch 31 yards

Antonio Brown- 5 catches 22 yards

 

Gronk- 6 catches 67 yards - 2 TDs

Fournette- 4 catches 46 yards

Brate- 3 catches 26 yards

 

No one throws to TE's and RB's like Tom Brady... so yes, a bunch of other QBs could have won the SB

[Mr. WEO]

28 minutes ago, Success said:

I saw this comment on twitter.  Thoughts?

 

I might not agree w/ 20 - but I'd say 10 or so.  In the aftermath, the focus is Brady, Brady, Brady, and he got the MVP (as QB's do).  Obviously, there is something to the fact that he has led his team to that game so many times over the years, and doing it again at 43 is newsworthy & noteworthy.

 

He played okay.  He had a good 1st half.  If KC's offense had played like KC's offense, he wouldn't have played well enough to get the win.  And this was following a 3 pick half in the NFCCG.

 

Imo, that defense deserves 80% or so of the credit for the W. And even more in the NFCCG.

 

 

 

Was Mahomes one of them?  Josh had his shot 2 weeks ago. 

 

Anyway, Brady got them 3 TDs to 2 FG by the half.  After that, they mostly pounded the ball and let their T off on a Chiefs team that had to pass.  As for the bolded part, why wouldn't Brady have continued to play as well if it became a shootout?  Because he had 3 picks in the NFCC game?  Makes no sense.

[LabattBlue]

Minimizing Brady’s play has been going on here forever. Yet here he is in 2021 at the age for 43 leading his team a SB Championship(#7), and yet the bashing still continues.  Some people will just never accept that he is the GOAT. 

[BaaadThingsMan]

Refs spotted the Bucs short fields the whole first half leading to 3 TDs and 21 points

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

31 minutes ago, Success said:

I saw this comment on twitter.  Thoughts?

 

I might not agree w/ 20 - but I'd say 10 or so.  In the aftermath, the focus is Brady, Brady, Brady, and he got the MVP (as QB's do).  Obviously, there is something to the fact that he has led his team to that game so many times over the years, and doing it again at 43 is newsworthy & noteworthy.

 

He played okay.  He had a good 1st half.  If KC's offense had played like KC's offense, he wouldn't have played well enough to get the win.  And this was following a 3 pick half in the NFCCG.

 

Imo, that defense deserves 80% or so of the credit for the W. And even more in the NFCCG.

 

 

4 TDs on 5 drives and 1 was a 70 yarder with a turnover on downs where he threw a TD pass that was dropped.  For a stretch there they were able to basically do whatever they wanted and the chiefs had no answer.  After that they had the 3rd and 10 drive with a bad snap.  After that it was basically a clock game so he didn't really need to do much but kill clock. Even the last 2 incomplete deep balls were imo thrown to try and draw PI.  

 

He got some calls that we didn't/wouldnt.  I do wonder if like rodgers TDs on Offside plays, if he just has a knack for when to throw balls to draw PI calls.

[Rico]

2 minutes ago, BTB said:

Minimizing Brady’s play has been going on here forever. Yet here he is in 2021 at the age for 43 leading his team a SB Championship(#7), and yet the bashing still continues.  Some people will just never accept that he is the GOAT. 

True, I can not abide. Posters who are butt-hurt that the Chiefs lost though are very entertaining!

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

14 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

Chris Godwin - 2 catches 9 yards

Mike Evans- 1 Catch 31 yards

Antonio Brown- 5 catches 22 yards

 

Gronk- 6 catches 67 yards - 2 TDs

Fournette- 4 catches 46 yards

Brate- 3 catches 26 yards

 

No one throws to TE's and RB's like Tom Brady... so yes, a bunch of other QBs could have won the SB

 

Isn’t it amazing how dinking and dunking can be so effective?  Bills could have done the same thing with similar success against KC—I am sure they are still kicking themselves for their offensive game plan. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, BaaadThingsMan said:

Refs spotted the Bucs short fields the whole first half leading to 3 TDs and 21 points

 

The one short field was on a re-kick shanked punt.  Not the refs fault he had a terrible punt on round 2.

Just now, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

 

Isn’t it amazing how dinking and dunking can be so effective?  Bills could have done the same thing with similar success against KC—I am sure they are still kicking themselves for their offensive game plan. 

 

It works when you break tackles... or when you have effective downfield blocking... Or a design around it.  

 

I'm more concerned with our defense TBH.  They had no answer other than the game just ending.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Analysts can say whatever they want. 

 

Look at the second TD throw to Gronk, a tight spiraled laser.  

 

The TD to Brown is a precise pass at the Goal Line. 

 

He had 40 TDs passing this year at 43 years old. 

 

People who keep looking for flaws or ways to minimize or discredit continue to look bad over and over. 

 

7 Championships with 5 MVPs is not a coincidence. You don't luck into 7 Championships and just happen to play until you're 43 years old. 

[Success]

8 minutes ago, BTB said:

Minimizing Brady’s play has been going on here forever. Yet here he is in 2021 at the age for 43 leading his team a SB Championship(#7), and yet the bashing still continues.  Some people will just never accept that he is the GOAT. 

 

He's the GOAT, and I'm not trying to minimize him.  What he did is quite an accomplishment. But it can also be true that quite a few other QB's could have won w/ the Bucs D holding KC to 3 FG's.

 

I just don't like the narratives that come out of a game like that.  I've lost count of the # of times I've seen "Brady beat Mahomes" or "For Mahomes to become the GOAT, you have to beat the GOAT."  They don't play each other.  If Mahomes was on the Bucs, he wins that game.  If Brady was on KC, he loses.

 

 

[Bobby Hooks]

42 minutes ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

Nope, only tommy had a chance. No one else would get those flags to give them second and third chances. No one benefits from the officials like him- especially in crucial moments. 

Those flags should have been thrown all year. Chiefs benefitted from being able to hold receivers the entire season. 

 

That “sticky” coverage should have been flagged all year. Too bad they only figured it out for the super bowl and not the afc championship game. 

 

Anyone can be as good as the Chiefs were if they allow you to hold every play. 

 

[Charles Romes]

You have to consider the overall organization culture transformation when he signed. No other QB could have done that. Yes he got a bunch of Jordan calls during the game as well which were critical, but he showed enough game during the regular season that he kept getting the Jordan calls.  If he was throwing nothing like ducks like he did v the saints mid-season the Jordan calls would have stopped.  The league would have put him out to pasture if he could not still play. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Charles Romes

[starrymessenger]

I thought he played very well. I picked the Bucs to win but I sure didn’t expect a blowout. In fact I was worried (because I also wanted them to win) that he might make a costly mistake. He can be accident prone at times now in his senior years, more so than before anyways.

MVP is game specific and other Bucs could have won it IMO but observers close to the team say Brady single handedly took control after he arrived and changed the culture. If thats true he remains largely responsible for the win. They were pre-Bady talented but undisciplined.

[snamsnoops]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

The Chiefs scored 9 points. I think most offenses in the league could have mustered more than that, so yeah, I think that's accurate. But I'm not sure how many offenses or QB's would have put up that many points. Only a few offenses would have done that.

 

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by snamsnoops

[thenorthremembers]

The Tom Brady bias needs to stop.  I get that the constant winning causes fatigue amongst football fans, but the guy had a fantastic game.    He is still a top  5-10 player at his position at 43 frickin years old.  

 

He goes 21/29 and throws three touchdowns in the first half, and media says a below average quarterback could have done the same thing?  Not likely. 

[CorkScrewHill]

1 hour ago, Success said:

I saw this comment on twitter.  Thoughts?

 

I might not agree w/ 20 - but I'd say 10 or so.  In the aftermath, the focus is Brady, Brady, Brady, and he got the MVP (as QB's do).  Obviously, there is something to the fact that he has led his team to that game so many times over the years, and doing it again at 43 is newsworthy & noteworthy.

 

He played okay.  He had a good 1st half.  If KC's offense had played like KC's offense, he wouldn't have played well enough to get the win.  And this was following a 3 pick half in the NFCCG.

 

Imo, that defense deserves 80% or so of the credit for the W. And even more in the NFCCG.

 

The deeper thing that all the players agree on is that he helped them believe in themselves as individuals and as a team. They respect him so much they will do anything to not disappoint him. The Bucs in spite of Brady's less than stellar playoffs before the super bowl were in that position because of Tom Brady IMHO.

[skibum]

It's fair to say that a non-Brady QB probably would have made fewer 1st downs, and that would have given KC more opportunities and the Pats fewer. That being said, KC's offensive line was hot garbage on Sunday, and Tampa's D was lights out. So yeah, I think most NFL QBs could have won that game with the Bucs team surrounding them. 

[Success]

2 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said:

The deeper thing that all the players agree on is that he helped them believe in themselves as individuals and as a team. They respect him so much they will do anything to not disappoint him. The Bucs in spite of Brady's less than stellar playoffs before the super bowl were in that position because of Tom Brady IMHO.

 

A few posters have made this point, and it's a good one.  Brady absolutely brings a culture change to any team (in addition to instantly making any team the most popular FA destination).

 

There was also a report that he was texting & calling his teammates every day over the past 2 weeks, just saying "we're going to win."  TB is the most driven person I have ever seen - even outside of sports - and that will to win has to be infectious.

 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

The Chiefs scored 9 points. I think most offenses in the league could have mustered more than that, so yeah, I think that's accurate. But I'm not sure how many offenses or QB's would have put up that many points. Only a few offenses would have done that.

 

True but keep in mind part of it is the Bucs offense stayed on the field and made no mistakes. If a lesser QB hadn't moved the ball or turned it over that would have given KC more chances to get back into the game, i.e. San Fran last year. Brady wasn't the driving force behind the victory but he was still a big factor.

[bigK14094]

Brady is the only QB that could lure Gronk out of retirement.  (and maybe get AB to sign there also)

[Figster]

33 minutes ago, Success said:

 

He's the GOAT, and I'm not trying to minimize him.  What he did is quite an accomplishment. But it can also be true that quite a few other QB's could have won w/ the Bucs D holding KC to 3 FG's.

 

I just don't like the narratives that come out of a game like that.  I've lost count of the # of times I've seen "Brady beat Mahomes" or "For Mahomes to become the GOAT, you have to beat the GOAT."  They don't play each other.  If Mahomes was on the Bucs, he wins that game.  If Brady was on KC, he loses.

 

 

2 recent threads down playing Brady's role in the Championships?

 

Without much Success...

[TheFunPolice]

"could've" summarizes the "MVP" Aaron Rodgers entire career. 

 

20 other QBs didn't win. Brady did. 

 

 

 

[May Day 10]

Although I have chilled on it for a good amount of time, I have been trying to diminish his accomplishments and minimize Brady for years.  We lost.  Its over.  its the wrong side of the argument and 98% of people on Earth will laugh it out of the room.

 

No matter what the situation is, cheating, TB12 booster shots, etc...  10 Superbowls and 7 victories is pretty insane.  It is hard to make and win a Superbowl.

 

I have always been "I would take Manning in a heartbeat" guy over Brady... but now its very difficult to make that case.  I have no desire to waste time and energy.  Just go with the flow.

 

 

Tampa Bay winning with Brady is a huge thing for his legacy in the face of doubters..  Completely takes Belichick and the NE 'environment' out of it.