The josh haters are out in force today

[Luka]

Well if you find all this entertaining, just wait until we beat the Steelers Sunday night and Josh lights up this year's darlings of the NFL.

[GoBills808]

Can someone explain wtf this guy is talking about starting @4:40

 

 

[thenorthremembers]

The problem with discussing any football reporter, especially ones from ESPN, is that you are ultimately trying to have a rationale conversation about a hyperbolic statement and that doesnt work.

 

The truth is Baker, Lamar, and Josh are all top 15 QBs in the league right now.  Just because one player has a great game, it doesnt mean the other is trash. 

 

If you want to look at Baker and Josh specifically, they are relatively close in what they've been able to accomplish in the NFL.  Josh has more wins, more combined touchdowns, and less ints.   Baker has a better completion percentage (by .7) and has a few more combined yards.    Baker is a good quarterback, but if you want to be real about elite physical talent, I think we all know how you should pick. 

 

The lesson here.  Stop watching FS1 and ESPN for God's sake.

[RyanC883]

1 hour ago, JerseyBills said:

Anyone else stop watching sports shows? 

I still watch GMFB , they're great but I just can't deal with the ESPN shows anymore.  

I don't watch pre game coverage either anymore, just can't do it. Majority of the ppl are awful 

 

ESPN still has sports shows? 

[purple haze]

1 hour ago, Joe Ferguson said:

Here's another Bills hater Keyshawn Johnson.

 

I thought he was fair all in all.  Signature wins come in big spots.  Sunday night would definitely be a signature win.  A good team, with a long pedigree of winning, in a game with high-stakes (playoff position) on the line.  Sunday night is basically a playoff game.

[fergie's ire]

1 hour ago, wjag said:

 

What were the reasons given?  

I watched First Things First for the first time today.  I was looking for some Bills talk and I can't stand the new ESPN shows.  Flipped this on.  The one guy (not Nick Wright) said that he doesn't like the Bills because he doesn't like the quarterback.  Says he has been playing terrible for the last two months and had one good game last night.  Said that over the last 2 months he has the same QBR as Mullens.  (Mind you, ESPN cherry picked their own stats during the broadcast to show that Mullens is off to one of the best starts ever to a career.)  Pretty clear than rather than have a reasoned discussion, he sees his job is to PROVE JA is bad.  I could see having some reservations about Allen...or not thinking he is one of the very top quarterbacks in the league yet, but claiming he has been BAD the last two months?  That's just silly and clearly he has a vested in interest in wanting to prove the he has been right all along about Allen.

[Mrbojanglezs]

I still think the woke media still holds a  grudge because they think he is a racist from that tweet before the draft.

[starrymessenger]

43 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Every week the hater list is evaporating. Mike Greenberg said this morning he's never been so incredibly wrong about Allen. Said he's on the verge of stardom. Max Kellerman is calling him elite and only Mahomes is better in the AFC.  If you're still a skeptical hater at this point you're just plain ignorant. 

 

PM is right now probably the best football player on the planet. He's had the benefit of great coaching and sits behind the wheel of the League's most powerful sports car. He's a very good athlete (not great and IMO not on Allen's level), he's got a tremendous arm (so does Allen), but the thing that makes him (the most) special is his ability to see the field and process with incredible speed. The game is just much slower for him than it is for normal human beings, even great athletes, and that in large measure accounts IMO for his outstanding accuracy. 

Thing is, he's so good that I really don't see much room for improvement. Allen on the other hand is still developing. All indications are that he will get better. I'll be interested in seeing how these two guys compare down the road. 

As has been said, although Allen deserves all the credit, the Bills have done a great job bringing him along, and they likely will continue to do so.

[Bangarang]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Cian Fahey is like a dog with a bone. He's not letting go.

 

 

I will never understand why anyone takes this guy seriously when it comes to QB evaluations. He’s just some random dude from Ireland. 

[Big Turk]

13 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

The problem with discussing any football reporter, especially ones from ESPN, is that you are ultimately trying to have a rationale conversation about a hyperbolic statement and that doesnt work.

 

The truth is Baker, Lamar, and Josh are all top 15 QBs in the league right now.  Just because one player has a great game, it doesnt mean the other is trash. 

 

If you want to look at Baker and Josh specifically, they are relatively close in what they've been able to accomplish in the NFL.  Josh has more wins, more combined touchdowns, and less ints.   Baker has a better completion percentage (by .7) and has a few more combined yards.    Baker is a good quarterback, but if you want to be real about elite physical talent, I think we all know how you should pick. 

 

The lesson here.  Stop watching FS1 and ESPN for God's sake.

 

Baker is a game manager. Maybe he can be a very good game manager but if he doesn't have a running game he is not going to beat you himself. Allen can and sometimes they don't even bother running. That's the major difference I see.

Edited December 8, 2020 by matter2003

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

15 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Can someone explain wtf this guy is talking about starting @4:40

 

 

college stars shine because there are a number of games “bought” to get easy wins and boost stats 

 

 

Then he goes on to calling McD a good coach 

[GoBills808]

Just now, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

college stars shine because there are a number of games “bought” to get easy wins and boost stats 

 

 

His theory is that coaching (he uses the term 'situation' a lot) makes the QB- he uses the 2018 class as examples. My problem with his theory is that Mayfield got worse w Kitchens' bad coaching and improved under new coach Stefanski, but somehow Allen got better under same coaching staff and Jackson gets worse? The results don't match the hypothesis.

[ngbills]

2 hours ago, Sharky7337 said:

Nick Wright on first things first still trashing Allen.

 

Skip Bayless says baker is better.

 

Steven A wasn't to bad. 

 

But they just keep moving the bar.

 

 

Opinions. Its more fun when not everyone is the same. 

[nucci]

people really listen to these guys? Why?

[JaCrispy]

4 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

I was expecting to come to this thread to see comments from @JaCrispy; @BigDingus; @Nextmanup; @Gene1973; @MOVALLEYRANDY; @FireChans; @C.Biscuit97 and the rest of the "Josh Haters" crew.  Wrong thread I guess, or perhaps they loosened the grip on their perceived bias.

I criticize poor play and praise good play...crazy, I know...😉

Edited December 9, 2020 by JaCrispy

[Not at the table Karlos]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Cian Fahey is like a dog with a bone. He's not letting go.

 

 

Who is this guy other than someone that likes Tyrod? His opinions are beyond terrible.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

15 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

I will never understand why anyone takes this guy seriously when it comes to QB evaluations. He’s just some random dude from Ireland. 

 

This.  He cherry picks the plays that show what he wants to convey.  He doesn't watch the game flow, probably doesn't for context.  It's all "charts".  His charts are the best charts, and everyone else is wrong.  

 

Except he put mariota as a top 3 - and will come up with 50 excuses why he failed.  And none of them are that he's just wrong, and mariota didn't have it between the ears.  

[ngbills]

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2020/12/08/national-reactions-josh-allen-buffalo-bills-win-primetime-san-francisco-49ers/

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

His theory is that coaching (he uses the term 'situation' a lot) makes the QB- he uses the 2018 class as examples. My problem with his theory is that Mayfield got worse w Kitchens' bad coaching and improved under new coach Stefanski, but somehow Allen got better under same coaching staff and Jackson gets worse? The results don't match the hypothesis.

coaching matters 

 

so does the QB

 

LJ is  a faker just like Faker Mayfield 

 

Maybe I’m not remembering correct 

 

who was Fakers HC when he broke a rookie TD record 

[ngbills]

Ryan Clark, ESPN

Josh Allen was magnificent tonight, Cole Beasley been going crazy in the slot & Stefon Diggs is flat out different!! Man, if they stay clean & the defense keeps moving along, watch out.

— Ryan Clark (@Realrclark25) December 8, 2020

 

Rainn Wilson, Actor

.@JoshAllenQB is my second favorite quarterback.

— RainnWilson (@rainnwilson) December 8, 2020

 

Trey Wingo, formerly ESPN

Have a night @JoshAllenQB

— trey wingo (@wingoz) December 8, 2020

 

Gregg Rosenthal, NFL.com

That was an outrageous first half by Josh Allen.

— Gregg Rosenthal (@greggrosenthal) December 8, 2020

 

Sportscenter

Josh Allen tore it up in the Bills' win on MNF against the 49ers:

 32/40 passing
 375 yards
 4 TDs pic.twitter.com/OlNPEEnekG

— SportsCenter (@SportsCenter) December 8, 2020

 

Adam Schein, CBS Sports

Just the beginning. Can’t wait until the Bills win a home playoff game. @JoshAllenQB is special. #BillsMafia

— Adam Schein (@AdamSchein) December 8, 2020

 

Pat McAfee, The Pat McAfee Show

Perfect execution by Josh Allen and the boys

— Pat McAfee (@PatMcAfeeShow) December 8, 2020

 

Warren Sharp, Sharp Football

so glad this announce crew is giving proper credit to Brian Daboll

his play calling has been on point tonight and it's been that way most of the year

— Warren Sharp (@SharpFootball) December 8, 2020

 

Will Brinson, CBS Sports

Stefon Diggs is putting on a freaking clinic tonight.

— Will Brinson (@WillBrinson) December 8, 2020

 

Pete Prisco, CBS Sports

QB clinic

— Pete Prisco (@PriscoCBS) December 8, 2020

 

Terrell Owners, former Bills & 49ers WR

Dammit @JoshAllenQB!! I asked you to take it easy on my guys!!! 
Played for both teams so it’s a Win-Win!! Way to play!! #BillsMafia #MNF @BuffaloBills @BuffaloBillsPR https://t.co/NIc3ksdIXa

— Terrell Owens (@terrellowens) December 8, 2020

 

Steve Palazzolo, Pro Football Focus

Josh Allen is an unstoppable cyborg from another planet #BillsMafia

— Steve Palazzolo (@PFF_Steve) December 8, 2020

 

Albert Breer, MMQB

Brian Daboll’s calling a heck of a game.

— Albert Breer (@AlbertBreer) December 8, 2020

 

Doug Flutie, former Bills QB

Last time we won on #MNF @BuffaloBills, I was under center in '99! Let's change that tonight! Wishing @JoshAllenQB @BuffaloBills good luck tonight against the @49ers. Get that W #billsnation! #billsmafia #MondayMotivation

— DOUG FLUTIE (@DougFlutie) December 8, 2020

 

Dan Orlovsky, ESPN

What’s @JoshAllenQB up to tonight??

— Dan Orlovsky (@danorlovsky7) December 8, 2020

 

Dan ‘Big Cat’ Karz, Barstool Sports

Josh Allen is on fire

— Big Cat (@BarstoolBigCat) December 8, 2020

 

Pablo Torre, ESPN

It’s unfair that the NFL allows Josh Allen to throw a Vortex

— Pablo S. Torre (@PabloTorre) December 8, 2020

 

The Checkdown

Stefon Diggs has no chill when it comes to snatching ankles  @stefondiggs @BuffaloBills

 #BUFvsSF on ESPN pic.twitter.com/5XKS2XL9V2

— The Checkdown (@thecheckdown) December 8, 2020

 

Rich Eisen, NFL Network

Dayum, @JoshAllenQB is crushing it tonight.

— Rich Eisen (@richeisen) December 8, 2020

[JaCrispy]

10 minutes ago, ngbills said:

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2020/12/08/national-reactions-josh-allen-buffalo-bills-win-primetime-san-francisco-49ers/

These are great...thanks for posting! 👍

[H2o]

2 hours ago, Joe Ferguson said:

Here's another Bills hater Keyshawn Johnson.

 

Ahhhhh yes, the ole "signature win" mantra. Nooooo, that didn't happen last year with all of the 4th quarter comebacks or the Dallas game on Thanksgiving. Nooooo, that didn't happen when he torched Miami this year. Nooooo, that didn't happen when he led the team down on a game winning drive in the final seconds against the NFC West leading Rams. Nooooo, that didn't happen when we were up against the MVP frontrunner at the time in Russell Wilson where he destroyed the Seattle secondary for 60 minutes less than 24 hours after the passing of his grandmother. Nooooo, not when he spanked the Raiders. Nooooo, not after last night's nationally televised drumming of the SF 49ers whom the announcers, pre-game hosts, and basically everyone was ballwashing after last week's victory over the Rams as well as during the game last night while they were getting their butts handed to them. 

 

It's cool though. I like it. Let them keep doubting, hating, whatever. It just adds fuel to the fire that burns not only in Josh, but the rest of this team as a whole because they keep being slept on. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

They are getting payed to attract viewers and get clicks on the internet so hot takes ultimately help them 

[Pokebball]

2 hours ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

The GMFB crew we're raving about him, so we're the NBC sports guys, and Shannon Sharpe was in awe of some of what he did.

 

Nick Wright just needs a hug and some clicks.  He's got nothing but to troll.

The hate is deep in Nick Wright.  He's sounds like a huge Browns and Mayfield fan and with him it seems it can't be both, bur one or the other. 

[LanderPoke]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

His choice of plays to demonstrate this:

 

 

😂

 

Pro Tip Cian: Dion Dawkins doesn't refer to Allen as "an Angel back there", talk about how fortunately he's big so he can take more hits than other QB, and suggest Joey Bosa gets his pro-bowl vote because they protect him so perfectly.

What a moron. Look at the first play. His arm is otherworldly!! Rolling out and throwing it like that. Jaw dropping. There is a Howitzer attached to his body.

 

And "offence"? Wth is that. Is he British? The guy is low IQ.

[Pokebball]

4 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

They are getting payed to attract viewers and get clicks on the internet so hot takes ultimately help them 

When the team is getting the haters hating, that's a good thing, right?  Just sayin!

[PromoTheRobot]

53 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

I will never understand why anyone takes this guy seriously when it comes to QB evaluations. He’s just some random dude from Ireland. 

 

I think he lucked out because American football started catching on in Europe but there were few media types there who understood the game. Obviously he doesn't either, but if you don't know any better he comes off as knowledgeable. He managed to parlay that into a couple of gigs.

[ngbills]

4 minutes ago, LanderPoke said:

What a moron. Look at the first play. His arm is otherworldly!! Rolling out and throwing it like that. Jaw dropping. There is a Howitzer attached to his body.

 

And "offence"? Wth is that. Is he British? The guy is low IQ.

I am not trying to hate on our OL or Daboll. But I would say Josh has been successful in spite of them more often than because of them. If this was a "they got Diggs so of course he will be better" argument at least that makes sense. Bills OL has played some good games and some shaky ones. Same goes for Daboll. 

[SoTier]

2 hours ago, Gordio said:

 

 

On Getup Jeff Saturday, Mcelroy, Green & Canti all were blown away and couldnt say enough nice things about Allen.  Saturday said " Allen is special" Mcelroy said the growth in Allen is so fun to watch & even jay Green who is a diehard Jet Fan said "Allens developement is an organizational success story."  

 

If Steven A said baker is better, I honestly can't take anything he says seriously again.  The only QB I would take over Allen right now is Mahomes.  That is it.  

 

I might consider Rodgers and Wilson, too, myself but they have been in the league 15 and 8 years respectively, so if I were building a team that could win now and into the foreseeable future, I'd go Mahomes first, Allen second.   At the beginning of this season, I had Allen ranked second in the 2018 QB class to Lamar Jackson, but he's clearly surpassed Jackson (even if Jackson hadn't faltered recently), and while Baker Mayfield has recovered from his bad sophomore season, he's not proven himself as consistently good or as consistently clutch as Allen.   A lot of people -- probably including some Bills fans -- have probably forgotten that the Bills looked to have won that    game against the Cards on that beautiful Allen to Diggs TD pass in the closing minute, and Allen's led the Bills to wins by overcoming deficits late in games several times over the last two years.   He's the real deal.

 

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

His choice of plays to demonstrate this:

 

 

😂

 

Pro Tip Cian: Dion Dawkins doesn't refer to Allen as "an Angel back there", talk about how fortunately he's big so he can take more hits than other QB, and suggest Joey Bosa gets his pro-bowl vote because they protect him so perfectly.

 

As someone who spend much of this century ranting at the Buffalo Bills for a) not building a quality OL  and b) not providing their numerous QBs with adequate targets, I find this guy Cian's take a lot of bull manure.   No QB -- not Brees, not Mahomes, not Rodgers, not Wilson -- can succeed without protection and targets.   Good protection and targets -- along with good/great coaching --- allows a QB to demonstrate his true talent level, whether it's modest like Nick Mullins or Ryan Fitzpatrick or great like Patrick Mahomes or Aaron Rodgers -- or Josh Allen.

 

 

[WideNine]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

Can someone explain wtf this guy is talking about starting @4:40

 

 

 

 

His hypothesis seems to be that Josh didn't get better the Bills coaching staff did, which is moronic or perhaps he just is not articulating his observations well. Cowherd looks like he has been on a alcoholic bender over his Covid isolation.

 

Coaching around Allen has stayed consistent. I would get behind a statement that any rookie QB with the potential to improve to a franchise level of play better realizes that potential when they land on a stable team with good coaches that know how to leverage their innate abilities (and surround them with the right talent to help realize that potential).

 

Somewhere lost in his calculation is that QBs have to put in the work, have to be "coachable", and have to show that they are taking that coaching and successfully applying it to their performance on the field.

 

The potential was there, but Allen was not accurate early on (in the NFL sense of touch, anticipation, throwing receivers open, and mechanics) - he held the ball too long, locked onto receivers, did not throw with anticipation, rifled late passes off the mark, resorted to bailing and running for his life, could not read defenses. All these things he shouldered and worked his tail off to improve and he did improve them dramatically.

 

Saying it was just coaching really devalues the effort it took for Allen to get to where he is now. 

 

A really bad oversimplification of how QBs can be successfully groomed in the right system.

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by WideNine

[VW82]

There are going to be non-believers until Josh proves himself over multiple seasons. He probably has to win in the playoffs too. The fact is his college career and first two NFL seasons were so raw that the bar is higher for him to earn trust from the average fan that isn't watching him every week. Hopefully opposing coaches continue to underestimate him too. 

 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

I still think the woke media still holds a  grudge because they think he is a racist from that tweet before the draft.

 

Nah. It's more experts resenting he makes them look like chumps.

[Big Turk]

36 minutes ago, ngbills said:

I am not trying to hate on our OL or Daboll. But I would say Josh has been successful in spite of them more often than because of them. If this was a "they got Diggs so of course he will be better" argument at least that makes sense. Bills OL has played some good games and some shaky ones. Same goes for Daboll. 

 

You realize that far more goes into the OC position than what happens on Sundays right?

[JaCrispy]

29 minutes ago, VW82 said:

There are going to be non-believers until Josh proves himself over multiple seasons. He probably has to win in the playoffs too. The fact is his college career and first two NFL seasons were so raw that the bar is higher for him to earn trust from the average fan that isn't watching him every week. Hopefully opposing coaches continue to underestimate him too. 

 

 

^^^^This is pretty much how I felt- but also because of the last 20 years of Bills QB play...

 

After everything Bills fans have been through, there was a time I really didn’t think we would ever find another top QB...the organization was so inept...

 

But Josh has become such an assassin when he drops back to pass...it’s just amazing how far this franchise has come, at the QB position...

 

You almost wanna freeze time, just to savor the moment as long as you can...

 

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by JaCrispy

[KOKBILLS]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

His choice of plays to demonstrate this:

 

 

😂

 

Pro Tip Cian: Dion Dawkins doesn't refer to Allen as "an Angel back there", talk about how fortunately he's big so he can take more hits than other QB, and suggest Joey Bosa gets his pro-bowl vote because they protect him so perfectly.

 

That dude has always been a hack. I know Schopp has had him on as an "expert" in the past...I laughed at most of his takes...I could scout better blindfolded...I can't believe people like him make a living doing it...

 

Maybe I'm just jealous...Who knows? 😎

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, H2o said:

Ahhhhh yes, the ole "signature win" mantra. Nooooo, that didn't happen last year with all of the 4th quarter comebacks or the Dallas game on Thanksgiving. Nooooo, that didn't happen when he torched Miami this year. Nooooo, that didn't happen when he led the team down on a game winning drive in the final seconds against the NFC West leading Rams. Nooooo, that didn't happen when we were up against the MVP frontrunner at the time in Russell Wilson where he destroyed the Seattle secondary for 60 minutes less than 24 hours after the passing of his grandmother. Nooooo, not when he spanked the Raiders. Nooooo, not after last night's nationally televised drumming of the SF 49ers whom the announcers, pre-game hosts, and basically everyone was ballwashing after last week's victory over the Rams as well as during the game last night while they were getting their butts handed to them. 

 

It's cool though. I like it. Let them keep doubting, hating, whatever. It just adds fuel to the fire that burns not only in Josh, but the rest of this team as a whole because they keep being slept on. 

 

Preach!  Buffalo vs Everybody!

 

LOLOLOLOL!  C'mon Stefon, that man got family watchin LOL

Stefon Diggs has no chill when it comes to snatching ankles  @stefondiggs @BuffaloBills

 #BUFvsSF on ESPN pic.twitter.com/5XKS2XL9V2

— The Checkdown (@thecheckdown) December 8, 2020

[BITE ME]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Who the ***** is Nick Wright? 

 

 

He is  token white guy who thinks he is black. 

 

[Mr. WEO]

If your views are down to "Cian Fahey", Nick Wright and Skip Bayless.....its time to consume less TV/sports opinion.

 

But some books.

[BITE ME]

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

Nick Wright is just trying to use billsmafia to give him more hate clicks and mentions.  Have no idea how this guy is on tv.  He’s probably the worst sports “personality” in history of personalities. What a bum

 

His job is to carry Lebron's water and cover for Lebron's human rights hypocrisy with respect to China and Nike.   That is the only reason he is still on tv.

[BananaB]

What I think is amazing is since he was drafted our main WRs over the 3 years have been Zay, Foster, Brown, Beas and Diggs. I’m not a stats guy but I think all of them have had the best season of their career with Josh throwing them the ball.