Dawson Knox and the TE position

[Putin]

2 hours ago, Gugny said:

He is approaching bust status.  He's way too inconsistent and is not a dependable target.  It's a shame, because I had high hopes.  He's simply not getting any better.

What drives me crazy are those easy catches that I’m sure even 300 pound OL man could make that he drops time and time again , 

 

 

[starrymessenger]

Knox is a big tease. He has absolutely everything you want in a TE. Except hands.  Can a TE learn to catch? Or is it either you have it or you don’t, like maybe QB accuracy?

[Putin]

5 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

Knox is a big tease. He has absolutely everything you want in a TE. Except hands.  Can a TE learn to catch? Or is it either you have it or you don’t, like maybe QB accuracy?

Nobody is expecting or asking of him to make acrobatic or spectacular catches just catch the damn ball that a high school player can make , I’m starting to believe that he’s hands are much worse then Zay John’s 

[Patrick Duffy]

2 hours ago, MJS said:

I'm fine with having mediocre TE's if we can get the defense turned around. The offense is not the problem.

Agree with this for the most part, however the drops are getting old and he has been missing on big opportunities. Would be great if they could somehow get an upgrade there, but yeah they HAVE to get this D figured out. It's been very disappointing thus far.

[BillsToast]

Kroft is more than serviceable at the position for what we need. Why we keep pushing Knox when he hasn't shown that much is bizarre to me. 

[Haze_21]

Knox has the athleticism but has brick hands. Every time he doesnt drop a pass he fumbles it. It sucks because he has potential but I'm about ready to move on.

[Charles Romes]

Knox would be a perfect player to allocate to your NFL Europe roster and bring him back after the drops stop. The cost is just too high to continue with the Knox experiment in real games that count. 

[WideNine]

2 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Knox is still a work in progress and he has the POTENTIAL to be a big time contributor.  At the same time you're right that we need a lot more production out of our TE's - particularly between the 20 yard lines.

 

My one concern is that the Bills offense is one dimensional . That we are a QB/WR driven O.  This will work against lesser teams and when Allen and the guys are ON this is a hard offense to handle.  But you can shut down the WR's if you don't have to worry about the TE's AND the RB's.  The other glaring need on the Bills is a running game and a true #1 RB.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Be interesting to see what the Titans were doing against the run.

 

They have been terrible against the run and were usually using a 4 man front. We should have had more daylight, but they were able to cut behind our blocks and were into Singletary's legs before he hit the gap. 

 

This was especially true on the left side with Ford and Dawkins. Pass pro was fine over there, but they looked confused run-blocking.

 

Game planning-wise, they had our running plays well diagnosed, and had effective means of countering them.

 

I don't place that all on Singletary. Our run blocking and run play calling needs to be better. 

[BBills88]

Bring back Croom or try Gilliam

[BuffaloMatt]

Lots of blame to go around for last. He gets some for sure. 

[Boxcar]

3 hours ago, McBean said:

Haven’t had a legit TE in years.

 

Dawson Knox remains my most unpopular Bill. He does nothing but drop passes and makes a play once every blue moon.

 

A good TE would work wonders for this offense. I know some have mentioned Zach Ertz and that would be amazing, but don’t think it would happen.

 

Any TE’s out there worth looking at or are we going to have to throw the kitchen sink at Kyle Pitts in the draft?

I don't really know what the Dolphins are doing but Gesicki would be pretty alright.

[Bangarang]

I don’t know how many times I can say this but Knox is an unreliable receiver. People want to pretend that he’s going to get better and blossom into a great TE but he looks nothing like someone ready to take on that role.

 

Frankly, with how good our WRs are I don’t mind not having a great TE. What bothers me is that we don’t even have one that I feel confident will catch the ball.

[Da webster guy]

3 hours ago, Gugny said:

He is approaching bust status.  He's way too inconsistent and is not a dependable target.  It's a shame, because I had high hopes.  He's simply not getting any better.

Thats the whole thing-- no improvement.  Had basically no experience in college as a pass catcher, and now we see why.  

 

Textbook example of a great athlete who isnt a great football player.

[Freddie's Dead]

2 hours ago, HOUSE said:

Knox once owned the Sabres, another reason to get rid of the guy

 

Paul Seymour Knox, remember him well 

[The Jokeman]

3 hours ago, billsfanmiamioh said:

Agreed. Knox blows

He doesn't blow, he's more of a depth guy right now. I don't mind if we look to upgrade the position in the offseason. Yet it isn't my top priority. 

[dave mcbride]

34 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

I don’t know how many times I can say this but Knox is an unreliable receiver. People want to pretend that he’s going to get better and blossom into a great TE but he looks nothing like someone ready to take on that role.

 

Frankly, with how good our WRs are I don’t mind not having a great TE. What bothers me is that we don’t even have one that I feel confident will catch the ball.

In the first quarter, I have to think he ran the wrong route on that throw by Allen that landed near the sideline not near anyone. Thank god a DB wasn't sitting there in zone. I also seriously doubt that Allen didn't know the play. That can't happen, especially since TEs are supposed to be reliable safety valves. 

[GoBills808]

9 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

In the first quarter, I have to think he ran the wrong route on that throw by Allen that landed near the sideline not near anyone. Thank god a DB wasn't sitting there in zone. I also seriously doubt that Allen didn't know the play. That can't happen, especially since TEs are supposed to be reliable safety valves. 

His drop was also the product of a lazy route iirc...just lagged straight out instead of bending in away from slotDB

 

Knox is imo worse than unreliable right now, he is a detriment. A TE who doesn't provide that safety net for the QB is useless

[whorlnut]

4 hours ago, Gugny said:

He is approaching bust status.  He's way too inconsistent and is not a dependable target.  It's a shame, because I had high hopes.  He's simply not getting any better.

Hard to call a late third rounder a bust, but I get it to an extent...

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Unlike Edmunds who I am ready to call a bust at MLB, it is too soon to give up on Knox and Oliver. Knox is the most physically gifted tight end the Bills have had in decades and he is still learning the positon( he had very few targets in college). He deserves more time but I would be fine trading for Ertz as a one year rental.

Oliver is getting close to bust category but I will hold off until week 8 next year before making a final opinion. DT takes a long time to develop.

[dpberr]

Allen doesn't trust throwing passes to the TEs.  Most fans can understand why.  

 

That suggests to me that's a unit that could use an upgrade if it presents itself. 

[The Firebaugh Kid]

Knox is athletic as hell. Too bad his hands arent.

[Buddo]

3 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

How many drops has Kroft had? Knox went out with injury and they didn’t target kroft 

 

He's had a few. Not as bad, or noticeable as Knox, but he also isn't what you would call 'sure-handed'.

 

I would say that I currently prefer him to Knox, as I just don't trust Knox to catch the football.

 

I'm not sure he dropped a pass last night, but I think he was one of the numerous 5 yard offensive penalties for a false start although I'm not 100% on that.

 

All we actually have at the TE position atm, is 'potential' and very little in the way of 'production'.

 

I believe they gave Knox opportunities last night, and they might have used him more, if he had held onto the football. He made at least one catch before the drop. Without looking too hard into it, iirc, he had two receptions, and two drops. Supposedly he also got dinged up, but I doubt he would have seen the football anyway after the second drop.

 

Knox has a lot of potential, but none of it will be realised unless he holds onto the pigskin.

 

[Royale with Cheese]

Knox is a mismatch on linebackers because usually more athletic than them and also a mismatch with defensive backs because he has size.  He just needs to stop having these mental lapses on easy, catchable balls.

[Fan in Chicago]

Poor poor management of the TE position overall. Knox is not improving at all and is approaching TJ Graham and Zay Jones ' bust level. 

Kroft looked good in one game and disappeared as he has for most of his time here. 

 

To those who say TE is not required in this system is not understanding an overall balanced offense

[LABILLBACKER]

6 hours ago, TheProcess said:

No question Knox has failed to progress this year. Injuries haven’t helped, but he still has problems with consistency and looking the ball in. 

Sorry but dude has stone hands. The Knox experiment will soon be over. Back to the drawing board. This is why I wanted Hunter Henry so bad. We haven't had a stud TE in forever. 

[LABILLBACKER]

6 hours ago, MJS said:

I'm fine with having mediocre TE's if we can get the defense turned around. The offense is not the problem.

But when our #2 wr is down and they start doubling Diggs all of a sudden you wish you had a TE corp. The top 2 TE's in the NFL played in last years SB. I remember this guy named Gronk in a few SB's too. The TE position is much more important than you think. 

Edited October 14, 2020 by LABILLBACKER

[JohnNord]

6 hours ago, Gugny said:

He is approaching bust status.  He's way too inconsistent and is not a dependable target.  It's a shame, because I had high hopes.  He's simply not getting any better.

Cue the “he’s still learning the TE position” excuses

[MJS]

7 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

But when our #2 wr is down and they start doubling Diggs all of a sudden you wish you had a TE corp. The top 2 TE's in the NFL played in last years SB. I remember this guy named Gronk in a few SB's too. The TE position is much more important than you think. 

I didn't say it is unimportant. But if we are going to expend assets to fix something it should be on the defense, not the offense.

[Buffalo Boy]

5 hours ago, QB Bills said:

He's a young player who has showed flashes of elite athleticism. But sure, let's get rid of the guy. His issue is between the ears, not having stone hands. Whether he gets over that or not remains to be seen but it's far too early to cut bait on him. 

 

If he turns it around, he can be one of the best tight ends in the league. A good team doesn't get rid of guys like that this early. 

Flashback post from the offseason😕

[billsbackto81]

6 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Want this offense to go to the next level. 

 

Call the NYG and ask about Engrams Availability.  Still under contract next year as well.  

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/evan-engram-21764/

Or the Jets for Herndon.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, SCBills said:

Yea, when Allen is dealing with drops and penalties all game then Knox drops a massive gainer right in his hands... I just about lost it.   I'm pretty close to being done with him.  

 

Where did Knox drop a "massive gainer right in his hands"?

He had 3 targets last night. 

One he and Josh were clearly not on the same page at all - not sure whose fault. 

One he hauled in and gained 15 yds, including pwning a guy

 

One was thrown a bit high, and he got his hands on it but couldn't haul it in.  It was a catch that a top TE makes 9.5 out of 10 times, but it was hardly "right in his hands"

 

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Knox is a mismatch on linebackers because usually more athletic than them and also a mismatch with defensive backs because he has size.  He just needs to stop having these mental lapses on easy, catchable balls.

 

Wait.....wait....don't tell me....Could Knox switch sides to linebacker?

 

1 hour ago, Buddo said:

Without looking too hard into it, iirc, he had two receptions, and two drops. Supposedly he also got dinged up, but I doubt he would have seen the football anyway after the second drop.

 

Is looking at the box score "looking too hard"?

3 targets.  One reception.  One target was not catchable.  One was.  I don't know if they'll call it a drop because it was over his head

[QB Bills]

20 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

Flashback post from the offseason😕

Dude, it's been 5 games. And he's only been healthy for half of them.

[SCBills]

19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Where did Knox drop a "massive gainer right in his hands"?

He had 3 targets last night. 

One he and Josh were clearly not on the same page at all - not sure whose fault. 

One he hauled in and gained 15 yds, including pwning a guy

 

One was thrown a bit high, and he got his hands on it but couldn't haul it in.  It was a catch that a top TE makes 9.5 out of 10 times, but it was hardly "right in his hands"

 

 

Wait.....wait....don't tell me....Could Knox switch sides to linebacker?

 

 

Is looking at the box score "looking too hard"?

3 targets.  One reception.  One target was not catchable.  One was.  I don't know if they'll call it a drop because it was over his head

Knox had a slight jump and the ball hit him in the actual hands... not the fingertips, his hands.  
 

The jump was so slight that Knox landed in stride. 
 

Even the announcers commented that he has to catch that. 
 

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by SCBills

[Royale with Cheese]

24 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Wait.....wait....don't tell me....Could Knox switch sides to linebacker?

 

Or maybe be your pool boy?

[Blank Stare]

50 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Sorry but dude has stone hands. The Knox experiment will soon be over. Back to the drawing board. This is why I wanted Hunter Henry so bad. We haven't had a stud TE in forever. 

I don’t have any evidence on my side to support that Knox will eventually “get it” or suddenly become a more consistent pass catcher, but we can’t bail on our draft picks every time we hit a rough patch in the road. It takes time for guys to develop...sometimes. No question Knox has to get better, but you can say that about most of the guys on this team after last night’s drubbing. 

[Gugny]

42 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

Cue the “he’s still learning the TE position” excuses

 

Yeah, those have definitely run dry.  Just like, "Edmunds is only 22!"

[Buddo]

It was painful enough watching the game, I didn't need the additional grief of looking up box scores.

 

They should definitely call it a drop, as although it was above his head, it was pretty standard NFL fare. I'm fairly certain Knox himself made an indication that it was 'on him'.

 

While I'm not precisely correct, according to the 'box score', I am correct in believing that it's a toss up as to whether or not Knox catches the football. 1 catch, 1 drop.

 

The major flaw with Knox, is his inability to catch the football with any consistency. I'm not even sure that that is arguable, tbh.

 

Going from memory again, there was only 1 'drop' that I thought was especially difficult, and that was a throw to Davis, that had some serious heat on it, where it was put where only Davis could get it, but on the stretch. It sort of went through his hands, but I don't think he could get them closed quick enough, if the truth be told.

 

Diggs had a couple I would ordinarily expect him to get, but they were low throws, again, possibly by intent, as it would prevent the DB from getting at the football easily.

[MAJBobby]

37 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

Or the Jets for Herndon.

Yeah that is another one I would call about. Same with Cle and Njoku 

[cd1]

Knox said he purchased a Jugs Machine and practiced catching the ball all off season. 

 

I was hoping to see some improvement.  You would think...

 

https://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/2020/08/how-josh-allen-george-kittle-helped-buffalo-bills-dawson-knox-grow-this-offseason.html

 

Quote

“I realized most of the issues that I had were on the easier balls,” Knox said. “Josh (Allen) would put a great ball right on my chest. I would kind of be already looking to make someone miss before I secured that. So it’s kind of just going back to the basics, training my eyes to the tuck.”

 

Knox’s solution to fixing the problem was working with a Jugs machine all offseason and getting together multiple times with Allen.

 

“I had a Jugs machine all offseason which was great. And then obviously getting together with Josh a lot helped there too, so I think I’ll be prepared and ready to go this season.”

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

13 minutes ago, Buddo said:

It was painful enough watching the game, I didn't need the additional grief of looking up box scores.

They should definitely call it a drop, as although it was above his head, it was pretty standard NFL fare. I'm fairly certain Knox himself made an indication that it was 'on him'.

 

Like I said, I don't know what the "drop" criteria used by different organizations are, but that's 100% a ball I expect a good NFL TE to come down with.

 

13 minutes ago, Buddo said:

While I'm not precisely correct, according to the 'box score', I am correct in believing that it's a toss up as to whether or not Knox catches the football. 1 catch, 1 drop.

 

That's pretty much spot on.  Knox catch % last season: 56%.  Catch % so far this season: 50%