Daboll needs better screen play design

[Happy Days Lois & Clark]

When Chan Gailey was coordinator for the Bills they had a very strong screen game which helped a team that lacked  talent on offense perform better than it probably should have.

Brian Daboll’s screen game design is poor. He should look at what Gailey did to make screens successful. If Daboll could come up with a better screen game it would really help the Bills offense. Getting Devin Singletary in space where he can make defenders miss would  really take advantage of his skill set. It also would help out Josh Allen’s short game and completion percentage. 

Edited April 19, 2020 by Happy Days Lois & Clark

[First Round Bust]

historically the Bills have not run effective draws and screens...and I think Chan G ran the best ever schemes for us for screens

 

more woeful history...yesterday Joe B from the Athletic had an article where he listed the stats for our TE over 60 years

 

our top 10 for passing yards for TE were

1) the legendary Dave Costa 1967 with most yards..19 freaking  effing 67

2) Charles Clay 3x and Scott Chandler x2. - name the greatest TE in Bills history and some will say Paul Seymour because of his blocking helped OJ..but pass catching TE - Pete M ?  Charles Clay ?  Scott Chandler ?  

 

3) We dont have a TE with more than 725 yards passing in 60 years - we are one of three franchises to never have a TE collect 750 passing yards in a season and Jax is one of the others and they are relatively new historically speaking...so the on-going dialogue about drafting a quality TE will continue until...Dawson Knox develops or we draft one early

 

(first round TE busts include Ruben Gant from the 70s and Tony Hunter the golden domer selected before Jim Kelly that year)

Edited April 19, 2020 by First Round Bust
spelling

[machine gun kelly]

Lois, just kidding, it was just too easy (actually like you’re avatar).  You make a good point in that we have Beasley, Singletary, Yeldon, and even McKenzie that could be used better in the screen game.  Hell, Brady made his career in the screen game first with Welker, then Edelman.  
 

I like Gailey’s game planning as that is all he had with Spiller doing well in that style.  I never disliked Gailey, as he was doing his best with one least talented team in the NFL.  I’m not one to bash Daboll, and not saying you are either, but this is definitely an opportunity for growth.  I really like Allen, but I wonder does he think Allen can process quick enough to make the screen game work.  The best part of Brady has been between his ears.  I’m not asserting Allen can’t do it, but it makes sense as a plausible reason why Daboll hasn’t incorporated into his game planning.

2 minutes ago, First Round Bust said:

historically the Bills have not run effective draws and screens...

 

more woeful history...yesterday Joe B from the Athletic had an article where he listed the stats for our TE over 60 years

 

our top 10 for passing yards for TE were

1) the legendary Dave Costa 1967 with most yards

2) Charles Clay 3x and Scott Chandler x2. 

3) We dont have a TE with more than 725 yards - we are one of three franchises to never have a TE collect 750 passing yards in a season and Jax is one of the others and they are relatively new historically speasking

Interesting First Round.  I would have bet Metzellars would have been on that list.  I met him as a kid in a convenient store in Blasdell.  I couldn’t get over how tall he was to a little boy.

 

Thanks for sharing.

[uticaclub]

I don't know if Allen can execute a screen pass. 

[aristocrat]

part of the reason is the way the defense plays allen. they set the edge to contain his scrambling and thus running screens becomes a chance for pick sixes

[MrEpsYtown]

35 minutes ago, First Round Bust said:

historically the Bills have not run effective draws and screens...and I think Chan G ran the best ever schemes for us for screens

 

more woeful history...yesterday Joe B from the Athletic had an article where he listed the stats for our TE over 60 years

 

our top 10 for passing yards for TE were

1) the legendary Dave Costa 1967 with most yards..19 freaking  effing 67

2) Charles Clay 3x and Scott Chandler x2. - name the greatest TE in Bills history and some will say Paul Seymour because of his blocking helped OJ..but pass catching TE - Pete M ?  Charles Clay ?  Scott Chandler ?  

 

3) We dont have a TE with more than 725 yards passing in 60 years - we are one of three franchises to never have a TE collect 750 passing yards in a season and Jax is one of the others and they are relatively new historically speaking...so the on-going dialogue about drafting a quality TE will continue until...Dawson Knox develops or we draft one early

 

(first round TE busts include Ruben Gant from the 70s and Tony Hunter the golden domer selected before Jim Kelly that year)

One of the reasons I really like Kmet. We really have not invested in the position in terms of draft capital. To me, if he came out next year he would be a first round pick. He is very young and probably should have stayed in school a year, but I feel like he will be the next Kyle Rudolph type really good tight end. He just turned 21 and is a true junior. 
 

Sleepers I like are Dalton Keene and Josiah Deguara, but I also think the kid Trautman from Dayton is interesting. But if its me I’m taking Knet in the second round. 

[Peace Frog]

Delayed draw to Singletary is the way to go.

[Hampton Josh fan]

1 hour ago, Happy Days Lois & Clark said:

When Chan Gailey was coordinator for the Bills they had a very strong screen game which helped a team that lacked a talent on offense perform better than it probably should have.

Brian Daboll’s screen game design is poor. He should look at what Gailey did to make screens successful. If Daboll could come up with a better screen game it would really help the Bills offense. Getting Devin Singletary in space where he can make defenders miss would  really take advantage of his skill set. It also would help out Josh Allen’s short game and completion percentage. 

I've been complaining about the screen game or lack thereof all season. It seems that Motor is perfect for an aggressive screen offense. Complement that with a tough inside runner in the draft and the threat of JA17 taking off and we'll be hard to deal with. 

 

[Johnny Hammersticks]

Get Singletary in space 2020.

[GunnerBill]

Agree he does. But he also needs an offensive line and Quarterback who don't make it so obvious a screen is coming. It is an area the Bills should really pay attention to in whatever camp we get. The way teams defend Josh because of his legs means you need better than average design and disguise to run screens effectively and the Bills both in the design and execution were not up to it in 2019. 

[SoCal Deek]

I’ve often wondered about screen play design. Is it a lack of design or personnel to execute them? Seems like every OC knows how to run a screen play. It’s not rocket science and a little film study would show you how to do it correctly. I’m guessing the problem is with the skill set of the O Line. They’re the key to pulling it off. If you were able to sit in on practice I’m guessing they just aren’t that good at the timing and footwork.

[Cripple Creek]

1 hour ago, Happy Days Lois & Clark said:

When Chan Gailey was coordinator for the Bills they had a very strong screen game which helped a team that lacked a talent on offense perform better than it probably should have.

Brian Daboll’s screen game design is poor. He should look at what Gailey did to make screens successful. If Daboll could come up with a better screen game it would really help the Bills offense. Getting Devin Singletary in space where he can make defenders miss would  really take advantage of his skill set. It also would help out Josh Allen’s short game and completion percentage. 

It's all about the execution.

[Mr. WEO]

Bills need a better Daboll.

[Airbornetrooper]

Is Spiller in space yet? Asking for a friend. 

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

Chan Gailey was an amateur compared to Teddy M. and the K-gun.  Thurman Thomas was a master at slipping out of pass protection and catching screen passes. Thurman in the open field was beyond dangerous.  It also helped that a great o-line executed the sell of pass blocking effectively..........and by the way there was some hall of fame guy delivering the ball with perfect timing and location.  A more subtle aspect of effective screen passes is the ability of wide receivers to run secondary defenders off the line of scrimmage or block them out of the play.  Andre Reed was exceptionally good at this. The schemes for screen passes are not as important as the deception and execution.  The best scheme in the league that is poorly executed won't work any better than an average scheme that is poorly executed.  Having the o-line returning intact for this season should allow them to improve on the finesse required to run effective screens.  Josh Allen needs to improve the timing and ball location.  Allen had a tendency to give the play away with his eyes and have poor ball location.  Both of these things are easy to fix.

For Daboll, knowing when to call a screen is a big deal.  Third and long is not the best time unless you're looking to pick up a few yards to help the punter and field position.  Second and short yardage is a great time because defenses will typically expect teams to take a shot deeper down field.  It is also a good call in situations for which your opponent is known to blitz.  Daboll can do a better job of picking the time to run them.

[First Round Bust]

kmet is coming out - check the draft boards he is first or second rated TE -

big guy his father played NFL and was drafted by our Bills in 1992

Kmet is also one heckuva baseball player and seems to be picking NFL over MLB career

likely 2nd or early 3rd round pick - if we were to pick him this board would have a mushroom cloud over it for week

[Mickey]

1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

Lois, just kidding, it was just too easy (actually like you’re avatar).  You make a good point in that we have Beasley, Singletary, Yeldon, and even McKenzie that could be used better in the screen game.  Hell, Brady made his career in the screen game first with Welker, then Edelman.  
 

I like Gailey’s game planning as that is all he had with Spiller doing well in that style.  I never disliked Gailey, as he was doing his best with one least talented team in the NFL.  I’m not one to bash Daboll, and not saying you are either, but this is definitely an opportunity for growth.  I really like Allen, but I wonder does he think Allen can process quick enough to make the screen game work.  The best part of Brady has been between his ears.  I’m not asserting Allen can’t do it, but it makes sense as a plausible reason why Daboll hasn’t incorporated into his game planning.

Interesting First Round.  I would have bet Metzellars would have been on that list.  I met him as a kid in a convenient store in Blasdell.  I couldn’t get over how tall he was to a little boy.

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

Good points but I don't understand what you men about Allen processing quick enough with regard to screens. Those are typically preset plays with only one target from the get go. All he has to process is whether to throw it in the dirt if the target is not available (covered, caught up in the trash, etc) or go for it. The problem with our screens is that they are not disguised well enough. That is due to play design and execution by the OL. The QB plays a small part in the deception but that had nothing to do with processing information quickly. Maybe we need a drama coach to show these guys how to give an Oscar worthy performance.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

33 minutes ago, Airbornetrooper said:

Is Spiller in space yet? Asking for a friend. 

No, but he leads the league in north / south yardage...?

[Charles Romes]

Keith McKeller, the K gun’s namesake, was on the verge of a breakout.  Then there was a silly holdout and it was over. 

[maryland-bills-fan]

2 hours ago, aristocrat said:

part of the reason is the way the defense plays allen. they set the edge to contain his scrambling and thus running screens becomes a chance for pick sixes

Which makes it easier to run between the tackles.

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

It's not about design it's about wanting them to be a big part of the offense. We're not a screen team by design. The reasoning is personnel. 

[ColoradoBills]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Agree he does. But he also needs an offensive line and Quarterback who don't make it so obvious a screen is coming. It is an area the Bills should really pay attention to in whatever camp we get. The way teams defend Josh because of his legs means you need better than average design and disguise to run screens effectively and the Bills both in the design and execution were not up to it in 2019. 

 

Your post is a perfect explanation of the situation and should be bumped for people to read again!

[Sherlock Holmes]

3 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

One of the reasons I really like Kmet. We really have not invested in the position in terms of draft capital. To me, if he came out next year he would be a first round pick. He is very young and probably should have stayed in school a year, but I feel like he will be the next Kyle Rudolph type really good tight end. He just turned 21 and is a true junior. 
 

Sleepers I like are Dalton Keene and Josiah Deguara, but I also think the kid Trautman from Dayton is interesting. But if its me I’m taking Knet in the second round. 

Love Kmet... I agree about the Rudolph comparison, that is who I see as well.

[Augie]

3 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

Get Singletary in space 2020.

 

If we are doing this correctly, nobody should be within 6 feet of him!  

 

 

My first thought was:  is the problem scheme or execution? Maybe some of both, but it never seems to surprise anyone. If I can see it coming, I’m sure the people who do this for a living are not fooled. 

 

 

.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Augie

[fan_in_tx]

4 hours ago, aristocrat said:

part of the reason is the way the defense plays allen. they set the edge to contain his scrambling and thus running screens becomes a chance for pick sixes

Hence the  concept of the middle screen.

[JESSEFEFFER]

19 minutes ago, fan_in_tx said:

Hence the  concept of the middle screen.

There is often a spy there.

[BarleyNY]

12 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

There is often a spy there.

Yup.  Not easy to run NFL legal screens when teams are playing the QB run/scramble/RPO.

[Hardhatharry]

5 hours ago, Happy Days Lois & Clark said:

When Chan Gailey was coordinator for the Bills they had a very strong screen game which helped a team that lacked a talent on offense perform better than it probably should have.

Brian Daboll’s screen game design is poor. He should look at what Gailey did to make screens successful. If Daboll could come up with a better screen game it would really help the Bills offense. Getting Devin Singletary in space where he can make defenders miss would  really take advantage of his skill set. It also would help out Josh Allen’s short game and completion percentage. 

I hated Chan's screens they would work twice but since he had noodle arm Fitz he did them so much it was garbage.

 

Daboll just needs WRs and TEs to catch the ball.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Hardhatharry

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

4 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

Get Singletary in space 2020.

That would be amazing.
 

I can see him out in space, signaling to the sideline: “Houston, we have a problem. I have made contact with a one CJ Spiller out here. No ball in sight. I repeat, no ball in sight.”

[Formerly Allan in MD]

What an effective play and we barely see it.  Not sure if Daboli doesn't know how to design it or if Allen can't learn how to execute it properly.

[Phil The Thrill]

7 hours ago, Happy Days Lois & Clark said:

When Chan Gailey was coordinator for the Bills they had a very strong screen game which helped a team that lacked a talent on offense perform better than it probably should have.

Brian Daboll’s screen game design is poor. He should look at what Gailey did to make screens successful. If Daboll could come up with a better screen game it would really help the Bills offense. Getting Devin Singletary in space where he can make defenders miss would  really take advantage of his skill set. It also would help out Josh Allen’s short game and completion percentage. 

I hate to go here but.... how much does this have to do with a developing QB that struggled with accuracy and timing?  I’m not sure if that is as much of an issue with Daboll as it is with Allen.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

There is often a spy there.

New England does have a remarkably talented scouting staff. Some might dare say their talents go beyond.  ?

[Buffalo716]

I have already touched on this multiple times.

 

Teams set the edge and try to not let Allen outside the pocket. Screens take advantage of teams that Rush heavily

 

Other teams don't rush us heavily so screens aren't as effective because D ends are in their right spot

 

The bills will have to get crafty . One possibility would be to fake a smoke screen to the right, while actually designing the screen back side to the left

[Manther]

6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Bills need a better Daboll.

Totally agree.

[freddyjj]

7 hours ago, First Round Bust said:

TE over 60 years

 

our top 10 for passing yards for TE were

1) the legendary Dave Costa 1967 with most yards..19 freaking  effing 67

Paul Costa for the record. 

4 hours ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

Love Kmet... I agree about the Rudolph comparison, that is who I see as well.

Can't block a lick.  Plays like a WR not physical at all.  

[BuffaloMatt]

8 hours ago, Happy Days Lois & Clark said:

When Chan Gailey was coordinator for the Bills they had a very strong screen game which helped a team that lacked  talent on offense perform better than it probably should have.

Brian Daboll’s screen game design is poor. He should look at what Gailey did to make screens successful. If Daboll could come up with a better screen game it would really help the Bills offense. Getting Devin Singletary in space where he can make defenders miss would  really take advantage of his skill set. It also would help out Josh Allen’s short game and completion percentage. 

Great avatar!

[MJS]

2 hours ago, Formerly Allan in MD said:

What an effective play and we barely see it.  Not sure if Daboli doesn't know how to design it or if Allen can't learn how to execute it properly.

Screens are meant to counteract pass rush and blitzes. They don't work as well when defenders are playing contain and trying to hem in the QB / RB instead of full on rushing. If we want the screen game to be effective, we have to be better at the intermediate to long game.

[Tesla03]

9 hours ago, aristocrat said:

part of the reason is the way the defense plays allen. they set the edge to contain his scrambling and thus running screens becomes a chance for pick sixes

 

then why is KC the one of the best screen play offenses in nfl history? 

 

Mahomes is just as dangerous as Allen with his legs. We don't do well with screens bc Daboll is a mediocre OC 

Edited April 19, 2020 by Tesla03

[K-9]

It’s far less a question of design that it is in the players and their execution of it. 

[fan_in_tx]

5 hours ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

There is often a spy there.

you have let your dline up field you have a center and 2 guards to neutralize the MLB and any down driving safeties.   This is the essence of the screen play..    Chan even brought the slot receiver (spiller)  back to the middle on occasion for this play.