Ramza86 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Its always been easier for this offense to operate with those standard slot route, but Josh was always looking for the bigger play But things have changed this year...Allen has been working on the mindset to take what the defense gives....that role would be exactly what would help this offense move. Right? Or no? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dma0034 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 I agree completely! But who? Hunter Renfrow or Chris Godwin are good options but you'd have to trade for them. Bills need WR to be the #1 priority in the offseason. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Get a stud WR1 and let Shakir take the primary slot role. 5 9 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirAndrew Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Why can’t Kincaid and/or Shakir be that guy? This is where I have issues with the structure of this offense under both coordinations this season. 3 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramza86 Posted January 1 Author Share Posted January 1 4 minutes ago, SirAndrew said: Why can’t Kincaid and/or Shakir be that guy? This is where I have issues with the structure of this offense under both coordinations this season. Shakir has shown he can work anywhere on the field. I think maybe hes a little slower that youd want in the slot and it requires Josh and him to be on the same page. But id certainly like him to be that for us this year. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bermuda Triangle Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 5 minutes ago, SirAndrew said: Why can’t Kincaid and/or Shakir be that guy? This is where I have issues with the structure of this offense under both coordinations this season. Kincaid has shown zero RAC ability so far. 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelCity Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 6 minutes ago, SirAndrew said: Why can’t Kincaid and/or Shakir be that guy? This is where I have issues with the structure of this offense under both coordinations this season. Agreed. It certainly doesn't help that defenses don't have to respect our outside receivers...makes the middle of the field much easier to take away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomark Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 (edited) I think you may be missing that they are using Kincaid as that 70 catch short 7 yard pass guy this year. He will just get better. The difference was Beasley rarely was able to get anything greater than 15 yards. Edited January 1 by Locomark 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Can we keep Cole Beasley and Isaiah McKenzie in the trunk of old junk never to come out again? Get through this year and draft a real WR with length and speed. Aim higher, raise the bar. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 After watching Harty and Sherfield this season lets just bring them both back for real. Slight sarcasm but is it? I'm more interested in upgrading the outside WR's as Shakir and Kincaid should be able to fill that slot role. That includes drafting one in the first round to compete for the #2 slot and eventually taking over for the perplexing Diggs. It also means finding a more reliable #2 option next year than Gabe Davis for a similar price Kendrick Bourne or Curtis Samuel come to mind but I really haven't looked to far into other possibilities. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 That would be 11 personnel which is now just a thing we sprinkle in every now and then. Had we drafted Josh Downs or Tank Dell or hell let’s go back 3 years ago to St. Brown we would be an 11 personnel team. That said I look around the league and there really does seem to be a move or consensus that 12 is more common and better to take advantage of defenses that have gotten quicker and smaller. I could be wrong tho. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 The pass targets for the remainder of the season, barring injury need to be: Shakir, Kincaid, Diggs & Cook...and if you can find him from the missing milk carton ad, Gabe Davis. You want to sprinkle in a throw to Knox and Ty Johnson once in a while sure. But the other dudes (Murray, Sherfield, Harty, etc..) can be phased out for now. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steptide Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 I noticed Diggs ran a route yesterday that looked just like a beasley route, the defender stayed right with him though. I can't remember when exactly it was in the game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 10 minutes ago, SirAndrew said: Why can’t Kincaid and/or Shakir be that guy? This is where I have issues with the structure of this offense under both coordinations this season. See, I think Shakir is kind of like Davis. He is an excellent 3rd option. He thrives in being the afterthought on offense. But I think we need someone more dynamic in the #2 role, and I don't see him as a dedicated slot player. I'd like to see Davis walk, draft a WR high to be the #2, bring in a good slot option, and then let Shakir continue in his current role, with maybe rotating at #2 some with the rookie to give him some more reps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirAndrew Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 3 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said: Kincaid has shown zero RAC ability so far. I’ve noticed that with Kincaid as well. In fact it’s been my only disappointment with him. I’ve mentioned this lack of playmaking ability when folks compare him to other elite tight ends. However, that’s not what I saw from him as a college player. The NFL is obviously a step up with faster defensive players, but I’m not convinced his RAC ability is as bad as appears. I don’t think the routes he’s asked to run put him in the best position to make plays. He’s taking on a role that’s similar to running backs as outlet receivers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBoots8 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 This upcoming draft has to put WR as the top priority. Say what you will about Diggs (I don’t think he magically fell off a cliff mid-season, I think he’s working past an injury we aren’t aware of personally) but at some point will slow down and settle into a WR2/Slot type of player. We need speed, size, and a menace on the outside. Shakir I feel is a very good option at #3 and Kincaid has great hands. Not sure if he’s ever gonna rack up a ton of YAC but he will be trusted to catch when it’s thrown his direction. I’m not sure who will be there at 32 (fingers crossed 🤞) but there’s a precedent to find our future WR connection with Josh sooner than later. There is a lot of talent at the position this year, and god help the league if we hit on a top-tier WR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UmbrellaMan Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Can Kaiir Elam play WR? He ran a 4.39 at the combine, and was an excellent WR in high school. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 I miss the Beasley underneath roll. That's when our offense was clicking 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 23 minutes ago, Ramza86 said: Its always been easier for this offense to operate with those standard slot route, but Josh was always looking for the bigger play But things have changed this year...Allen has been working on the mindset to take what the defense gives....that role would be exactly what would help this offense move. Right? Or no? Never mind all that … what’s your brother saying now about the Rasul Douglas trade ? Is he still laughing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirAndrew Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 2 minutes ago, MJS said: See, I think Shakir is kind of like Davis. He is an excellent 3rd option. He thrives in being the afterthought on offense. But I think we need someone more dynamic in the #2 role, and I don't see him as a dedicated slot player. I'd like to see Davis walk, draft a WR high to be the #2, bring in a good slot option, and then let Shakir continue in his current role, with maybe rotating at #2 some with the rookie to give him some more reps. I’m definitely on board with drafting a number two. My only disagreement is that I wouldn’t be fearful of trying Shakir in the slot position. The addition of a solid rookie in the number two receiver role would be huge, and frees up a lot of space in the middle of the field. Guys like Shakir developing into starting roles separate championship teams from those chasing their tails. You can only bring in so many players, draft choices need to become those guys at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maine-iac Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 (edited) 13 minutes ago, UmbrellaMan said: Can Kaiir Elam play WR? He ran a 4.39 at the combine, and was an excellent WR in high school. Shakir ran a 4.43 ................ not sure why so many people say he's slow. Edited January 1 by Maine-iac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Unless they move away from the 2 TE approach, that role is going to be Kincaid’s. That’s why they drafted him. What they really need in this offense are WRs who punish teams from bringing extra safeties in the box. Ideally, big guys who can’t be covered 1v1 or burners who can take the top off the defense. I agree with other posters that this should be a draft focus, but if you look at who the Bills have under contract on defense next year I think you’ll see that most of the draft will need to be devoted to the defense unless you want that side of the ball to fall off a cliff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jukester Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 35 minutes ago, SirAndrew said: Why can’t Kincaid and/or Shakir be that guy? This is where I have issues with the structure of this offense under both coordinations this season. Exactly. Yes, we will need to draft outside speed but right now we have the skill players to be better and Kincaid and Shakir are being under utilized. We’re just not using them properly. I just roll my eyes when Sherfield is on the field or when Murray is lined up outside. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 38 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said: Kincaid has shown zero RAC ability so far. Then have him run at least 10 yards routes on every play. 16 minutes ago, Maine-iac said: Shakir ran a 4.43 ................ not sure why so many people say he's slow. Shakir can't take the top of the defense that said I think he's fast enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Shakir is growing into this role I think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 There is no WR on the roster that has the quickness to play slot right now. I suspect they thought Sherfield or Hardy could compete for that role but they have been total busts. Shakir just is not good enough. He is a very nice #4 WR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maine-iac Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 6 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said: There is no WR on the roster that has the quickness to play slot right now. I suspect they thought Sherfield or Hardy could compete for that role but they have been total busts. Shakir just is not good enough. He is a very nice #4 WR. What exactly makes you say Shakir isn't quick enough to be a slot WR? Puka Nacua wants to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessTruster Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 48 minutes ago, KingBoots8 said: This upcoming draft has to put WR as the top priority. Say what you will about Diggs (I don’t think he magically fell off a cliff mid-season, I think he’s working past an injury we aren’t aware of personally) but at some point will slow down and settle into a WR2/Slot type of player. We need speed, size, and a menace on the outside. Shakir I feel is a very good option at #3 and Kincaid has great hands. Not sure if he’s ever gonna rack up a ton of YAC but he will be trusted to catch when it’s thrown his direction. I’m not sure who will be there at 32 (fingers crossed 🤞) but there’s a precedent to find our future WR connection with Josh sooner than later. There is a lot of talent at the position this year, and god help the league if we hit on a top-tier WR. no top WRs will get out of the top 20 , that's for sure. deep draft for WRs , tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikePJ76 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 hour ago, Bermuda Triangle said: Kincaid has shown zero RAC ability so far. He definitely is more Jason Witten than Antonio Gates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 hour ago, Ramza86 said: Shakir has shown he can work anywhere on the field. I think maybe hes a little slower that youd want in the slot and it requires Josh and him to be on the same page. But id certainly like him to be that for us this year. Maybe he and Josh need to spend a lot of time this offseason getting on the same page then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 hour ago, Ramza86 said: Its always been easier for this offense to operate with those standard slot route, but Josh was always looking for the bigger play But things have changed this year...Allen has been working on the mindset to take what the defense gives....that role would be exactly what would help this offense move. Right? Or no? I apologize for my immediate gut reaction when I read the title and thought you were proposing bringing back Beasley/McKenzie. It is the ROLE that I missed reading before my little mini-stroke. I should be fine, but I regret my evil thoughts. I’m good with more singles and doubles. It’s like we just keep trying to PROVE we really CAN hit the home run. 48 minutes ago, Maine-iac said: Shakir ran a 4.43 ................ not sure why so many people say he's slow. Interesting point. Does he run fast but play a bit slower? Maybe, but I’ll be honest and say I’ve never watched him and thought he looked slow. But trust me, you don’t want me as your GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlfaBill Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 hour ago, Gugny said: Get a stud WR1 and let Shakir take the primary slot role. Too bad we didn’t have the cash to bring in OBJ or Wakins. Look at how they make their QBs look. I can’t believe the separation they get! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramza86 Posted January 1 Author Share Posted January 1 53 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: Never mind all that … what’s your brother saying now about the Rasul Douglas trade ? Is he still laughing? Hes happy for us 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock'em Sock'em Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Isabella, 4.31. I wonder what's holding him back, as they favor Sherfield. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 2 hours ago, SirAndrew said: Why can’t Kincaid and/or Shakir be that guy? This is where I have issues with the structure of this offense under both coordinations this season. Shakir looks like he can fill that role. Kincaid should be more of a big play threat. But Josh needs to make smarter decisions with who to throw to. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 (edited) 2 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said: Kincaid has shown zero RAC ability so far. Interesting. I feel like that's been the most impressive part of his game so far this season and (granted the number is low) he's among the league leaders in broken tackles for tight ends. I feel like nobody on this team transitions into being a runner after the catch quicker than he does, sometimes to a fault. Edited January 1 by DCOrange 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 2 hours ago, vincec said: Unless they move away from the 2 TE approach, that role is going to be Kincaid’s. That’s why they drafted him. What they really need in this offense are WRs who punish teams from bringing extra safeties in the box. Ideally, big guys who can’t be covered 1v1 or burners who can take the top off the defense. I agree with other posters that this should be a draft focus, but if you look at who the Bills have under contract on defense next year I think you’ll see that most of the draft will need to be devoted to the defense unless you want that side of the ball to fall off a cliff. Knox has got 1 more year left given they can’t move on from his contract earlier … then he will be traded before the 2025 season … so the two TE approach won’t be with us much longer … I could see them taking a WR early ( maybe 2 ) and a C to replace Morse in the 2024 draft .. They have needs at DT and S … but I can see them trying to fill those with some cheap FAs and Day 3 picks … Would like them to bring back Floyd because DE is a problem I don’t have an answer for otherwise … Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KellyToTasker Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 2 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said: Kincaid has shown zero RAC ability so far. Not sure how he’s being used differently with Knox on the field, we saw more of what Kincaid can be in Knox’s absence, the TD against Tampa and the long grab yesterday shows what he’s capable of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 2 hours ago, Steptide said: I noticed Diggs ran a route yesterday that looked just like a beasley route, the defender stayed right with him though. I can't remember when exactly it was in the game I think it was a third down. Everyone else ran deeper routes. Diggs did not look good running it. He’s usually pretty good at whip routes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 When we had Brown, Beasley, Diggs and Davis was when the passing game was at its best, since the departure of Brown and Beasley, we have yet to replace those two skill sets and have both available at the same time with Diggs and Davis,, nor have we had an OC that could scheme those skill sets into the offensive game plan effectively, my question is why have our last two OCs not seen this, and said to themselves, “ sh-t they were on fire with this scheme” maybe I should try that…, Then I made myself another martini 🍸🚬…, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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