Groot’s development

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

1 hour ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

Maxx Crosby-4th round Eastern Michigan.  

Someone used the Google machine to make a random observation! 

[BananaB]

 Not sure why anyone is surprised by this after the development of Aj, Ed and Boogie. You can also put Elam on that list if you want. Either scouting is terrible or they have a problem coaching. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Edited November 6, 2023 by BananaB

[LabattBlue]

1 hour ago, Forward Progress said:

 

They were all shining when DaQuon Jones was playing well.  Once DaQuon went down, our entire D-line went down with it.   The big guys up front never get enough credit for the roll they play in freeing up others to make plays.

BS. Heard the same excuse when Miller went down last year. If they have to rely on another player to be successful, they aren’t all that good to begin with. 

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Same as Oliver & AJE.  Just when you think they are turning the corner, they disappear.  

Watched all 3 of these guys yesterday and found absolutely nothing inspiring.  Floyd has been our best pass rusher all year.

[SirAndrew]

Our D line picks are rotational players who came out of college with limited potential of becoming three down players. None of them appeared to be players who could become dominant. They were potential puzzle pieces, but not Maxx Crosby, TJ Watt types, nor should they have been scouted to be. The issue is in the philosophy of drafting undersized speed guys with limited potential to become dominant. 

[FilthyBeast]

I think the main issue with Groot unfortunately is the same one that has plagued many of this teams players and that's simply the ability to stay healthy and on the field.

 

But this is year 3 and injuries aside, I've seen nothing from him that indicates he's going to be anything  more in this league than average and probably a 8-10 sack a year type of ceiling.

[Paup 1995MVP]

1 hour ago, Bob Chandler's Hands said:

Someone used the Google machine to make a random observation! 

Your user name is great bro.  But not sure what you mean about Google.  I have followed Crosby's entire career.  The guy is a hell of a player who has fought through a lot of demons.  If Rousseau becomes half the player Crosby is, and our defense played with Crosby's intensity and enthusiasm, we would all be a lot happier today.

[BillMafia716ix]

Not enough production out of a former 1st round pick who is in his 3rd season and up this point in his career has been a disappointment. With Von Miller coming off a torn ACL, You’d expect a  guy like Rousseau to elevate his game and he hasn’t up to this point. They need more production out of him and nobody is talking about it. 

[John from Riverside]

This is going to be a long week of tearing down every player that we have

[Dr.Sack]

I think Rousseau makes the tackle Von whiffed on. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Hasn’t been the same since his foot injury.

[Billzgobowlin]

He is not the issue.  Move on.  The center of the defense without Milano and Jones is weak, backups haven't stepped up.

[SoonerBillsFan]

1 hour ago, BillMafia716ix said:

Not enough production out of a former 1st round pick who is in his 3rd season and up this point in his career has been a disappointment. With Von Miller coming off a torn ACL, You’d expect a  guy like Rousseau to elevate his game and he hasn’t up to this point. They need more production out of him and nobody is talking about it. 

Groot looked fine until they forced him to split reps with the totally in effective Von Miller.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

3 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Groot looked fine until they forced him to split reps with the totally in effective Von Miller.  

Rousseau and Oliver snaps have dropped some the last few weeks. I’m guessing injury related. Both banged up.

[RobbRiddick]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

This is going to be a long week of tearing down every player that we have

Tremaine Edwards sucks

[peterpan]

Beanes DL drafts have been terrible and we keep drafting DL.  Wasted picks 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Hope it s the injury. He looked good to start the year but invisible the last three weeks. Had one tip pass and that was it against Bengals.

[BuffaloBillyG]

9 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Hope it s the injury. He looked good to start the year but invisible the last three weeks. Had one tip pass and that was it against Bengals.

I think it's got something to do with it. Think the foot issue is kind of put him in no man's land. It's not bad enough to miss time but not healed enough to let him get off the line fast. 

 

He's still doing well against the run game to my eye. 

[No_Matter_What]

3 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

I think Rousseau makes the tackle Von whiffed on. 

Agreed, but I think Von makes the same tackle in a couple of weeks.

[billsfan_34]

3 hours ago, BillMafia716ix said:

Not enough production out of a former 1st round pick who is in his 3rd season and up this point in his career has been a disappointment. With Von Miller coming off a torn ACL, You’d expect a  guy like Rousseau to elevate his game and he hasn’t up to this point. They need more production out of him and nobody is talking about it. 

He has had a very good season. The defense is so banged up, we simply cannot pin this on Greg. Von is a shell of himself, and many are not sure he ever will be what he once was. 

[Pete]

3 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

I think Rousseau makes the tackle Von whiffed on. 

Von was awful.  Football 101- set the edge. 

[Donuts and Doritos]

Injured D held them to 3 pts in 2nd half. The healthy turtling O is the issue. Focus on that.

[Pete]

3 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

Agreed, but I think Von makes the same tackle in a couple of weeks.

Von has shown nothing yet, since his return.  He looks slow and easily blockable.  Rousseau, Shaq, AJ should all be getting playing time over Von.

[strive_for_five_guy]

4 hours ago, BillMafia716ix said:

Not enough production out of a former 1st round pick who is in his 3rd season and up this point in his career has been a disappointment. With Von Miller coming off a torn ACL, You’d expect a  guy like Rousseau to elevate his game and he hasn’t up to this point. They need more production out of him and nobody is talking about it. 

A Groot complaint thread was already started yesterday:

 

 

[mrags]

4 hours ago, BillMafia716ix said:

Not enough production out of a former 1st round pick who is in his 3rd season and up this point in his career has been a disappointment. With Von Miller coming off a torn ACL, You’d expect a  guy like Rousseau to elevate his game and he hasn’t up to this point. They need more production out of him and nobody is talking about it. 

Well. I’d say he might have more of a chance to do some things. Except his egomaniacal HC/DC still feels it’s super important to have a rotation of 11 guys on the DL throughout the game. 

3 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Rousseau and Oliver snaps have dropped some the last few weeks. I’m guessing injury related. Both banged up.

Or it’s the egomaniacal coaches stupid rotation on the DL 

[BBFL]

Watched the game again… 3 man pressure was nuts from Cinci’ whilst we invest a large portion of our resources in a DLine and rushers who at times go absolutely invisible. 
 

Think if we struggle to get there blitzing and just a regular 4 man rush that things need to be reevaluated for that portion of the defense. 
 

We are all clearly upset and need to find the tangible reasons as to why we lost and have been losing games. A multitude of reasons and the players are why but the players are the only ones performing what the coaches want. 
 

Is it players more than coaches or vice versa? Either way, something ain’t right…

 

😔

Edited November 7, 2023 by BBFL

[BUFFALOTONE]

The pass rush has been very hot and cold all year. Especially with the injuries MCD has had to manufacture pressure and when it doesn’t get home it’s a big play. Jones was the catalyst of this defense and his presence in the middle was critical. 

[RG Murdock]

Bills DL still has 1st, and 2nd round picks Rousseau (Who's fallen off a cliff of irrelevance), Epenesa (Ditto), Miller. Oliver, Lawson, Floyd. No injuries. Where are they when the team needs them most? Bills were forced to blitz the Bengals constantly because the DL was totally impotent on it's own! Outside of a few flash games, Rousseau and Epenesa have dissapeared from the stat sheet far too often.. From 30K feet, most teams would salivate to have these players. But a closer prove them to be overdrafted frauds. QB's have no fear of our DL. Buffalo media and Bills fans rags on the offence, but ignores these key DL players in our time of need. Would you pay Epenesa and Rousseau major $$$ next year? Based on what? These over-valued Beane picks will haunt the Bills for years to come. Imagine the Bills right D right now if Rousseau and Epenesa were the actual DL studs there draft status made them out to be. Basically, these two are just a 2023 version of Edmunds. I wouldn't pay big $$ to either. Thanks Beane.   

[nedboy7]

Groot is probably best player on DL.  Not sure why we discussing him while Josh cant even read the field. 

[Paup 1995MVP]

3 hours ago, RG Murdock said:

Bills DL still has 1st, and 2nd round picks Rousseau (Who's fallen off a cliff of irrelevance), Epenesa (Ditto), Miller. Oliver, Lawson, Floyd. No injuries. Where are they when the team needs them most? Bills were forced to blitz the Bengals constantly because the DL was totally impotent on it's own! Outside of a few flash games, Rousseau and Epenesa have dissapeared from the stat sheet far too often.. From 30K feet, most teams would salivate to have these players. But a closer prove them to be overdrafted frauds. QB's have no fear of our DL. Buffalo media and Bills fans rags on the offence, but ignores these key DL players in our time of need. Would you pay Epenesa and Rousseau major $$$ next year? Based on what? These over-valued Beane picks will haunt the Bills for years to come. Imagine the Bills right D right now if Rousseau and Epenesa were the actual DL studs there draft status made them out to be. Basically, these two are just a 2023 version of Edmunds. I wouldn't pay big $$ to either. Thanks Beane.   

Great post RG.  I could not agree with you more.  Neither of them are high motor consistent difference makers.  Oliver is somewhat better, but nearly at the level of  Kyle Williams and Marcel Darius (before his big contract).  

 

Milano is the only top D player on our roster.  D Jones was having a great year.  And Tre was a top player before his injuries.  As was Poyer and Hyde before age and injuries took their toll.  At this point with our injuries, we don't have a lot of top end talent on the defense.  Holding the Bengals to 24 pts was a dam solid performance IMO.  (Benford and Bernard have a lot of potential.  And Jackson and Johnson always play hard.  But one is athletically limited.  And the other is too short.)

 

Did you watch the Jets-Chargers last night?  Those are two bad ass defenses.  Constant pressure by both D lines on the QB's all night.  And lots of aggressive coverage and hitting on every play.  Both of those defenses are light years ahead of us talent wise.  And that should not be.  But it is.

[Freak-O]

On 11/6/2023 at 6:38 PM, Bagwell358 said:

He's another example of Beane not hitting on his first or second round picks. 

 

That same year Miami took Jaelen Phillips. His impact is much greater. 

 

I dont know the issue overall but there are too many DEs on this roster making a lot of money to not impact the QB more. Last night was a perfect example. The fact we are having to blitz as often as we are says alot about where this group is at. 

You can always find a better pick to compare with, but doing so is silly. Groot is doing just fine. 

[bkep32]

Def is hurt and held Bengals to 24...if u told me behinning of year we have white out, Milano out, Jones out, for this game and held cincy to 24 in cincy,  mark it 'W'.  OFF is the issue

[Brand J]

At least no pass rusher that went after Groot is tearing up the league. That would sting. But yeah, he’s more Phil Hansen than he is Bruce Smith. A good, complementary player, not an all pro. 

[BarleyNY]

On 11/6/2023 at 12:36 PM, Toledo Bill said:

I am disappointed in his progress. For a while I thought he would be a real force but it doesn’t seem like he is progressing. 
Interested  in opinions.

 

IMO Groot quickly developed and hit his ceiling. Largely he is going to stay the player he is now. He’s a good complimentary DE, but he needs a “bend the edge” DE across from him (like Von Miller) to be effective. He will never be that player because he has terrible bend and change of direction. He has good strength and great length though. He has the ability to set the edge against and shed blockers. If a Von Miller is at the other DE spot, then he’ll have opportunities when the QB gets flushed to his side. But he’s never going to be a guy who flies past an OT to get to the QB. 

Edited November 7, 2023 by BarleyNY

[Paup 1995MVP]

4 hours ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

Great post RG.  I could not agree with you more.  Neither of them are high motor consistent difference makers.  Oliver is somewhat better, but nearly at the level of  Kyle Williams and Marcel Darius (before his big contract).  

 

Milano is the only top D player on our roster.  D Jones was having a great year.  And Tre was a top player before his injuries.  As was Poyer and Hyde before age and injuries took their toll.  At this point with our injuries, we don't have a lot of top end talent on the defense.  Holding the Bengals to 24 pts was a dam solid performance IMO.  (Benford and Bernard have a lot of potential.  And Jackson and Johnson always play hard.  But one is athletically limited.  And the other is too short.)

 

Did you watch the Jets-Chargers last night?  Those are two bad ass defenses.  Constant pressure by both D lines on the QB's all night.  And lots of aggressive coverage and hitting on every play.  Both of those defenses are light years ahead of us talent wise.  And that should not be.  But it is.

I meant Oliver is somewhat better, but NOT nearly at the level of Kyle Williams and Marcel Darius (before his big contract)

[Straight Hucklebuck]

On 11/6/2023 at 12:36 PM, Toledo Bill said:

I am disappointed in his progress. For a while I thought he would be a real force but it doesn’t seem like he is progressing. 
Interested  in opinions.

He's been invisible since Miami. 

 

I don't even notice him out there. 

4 hours ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

Great post RG.  I could not agree with you more.  Neither of them are high motor consistent difference makers.  Oliver is somewhat better, but nearly at the level of  Kyle Williams and Marcel Darius (before his big contract).  

 

Milano is the only top D player on our roster.  D Jones was having a great year.  And Tre was a top player before his injuries.  As was Poyer and Hyde before age and injuries took their toll.  At this point with our injuries, we don't have a lot of top end talent on the defense.  Holding the Bengals to 24 pts was a dam solid performance IMO.  (Benford and Bernard have a lot of potential.  And Jackson and Johnson always play hard.  But one is athletically limited.  And the other is too short.)

 

Did you watch the Jets-Chargers last night?  Those are two bad ass defenses.  Constant pressure by both D lines on the QB's all night.  And lots of aggressive coverage and hitting on every play.  Both of those defenses are light years ahead of us talent wise.  And that should not be.  But it is.

Joe Marino was upset about the pressure calls from McDermott, but we've seen the extreme other end in both games last year from Frazier - 15 yards off every WR. 

[Eastport bills]

Rousseau is light in the pants. He can’t pressure the QB and although he blocks an occasional pass, his slight frame makes him a liability in the run game. Lawson and AJ have been more impactful.

[Paup 1995MVP]

3 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

He's been invisible since Miami. 

 

I don't even notice him out there. 

Joe Marino was upset about the pressure calls from McDermott, but we've seen the extreme other end in both games last year from Frazier - 15 yards off every WR. 

I like the pressure calls.  The problem seems to be that our defenders can't get to the QB.  And if our front 4 could get constant pressure, we would not have to blitz, and could cover more of the field.  The Jets and Chargers sure did not have any problems getting to Herbert and Wilson last night.  Losing Milano has really handcuffed us.  He can blitz, stop the run and cover the pass as well as any LB in the game.

 

And also if the Bills offense was playing at full throttle the entire game.  And moving the ball and scoring more, the Bengals would have had to have played more aggressively on offense, and we likely get at least one or two turnovers.  They knew our offense was stagnant against their D for much of the game.  And decided to play it a bit more safe and conservative.  

[stinky finger]

On 11/6/2023 at 12:36 PM, boyst said:

I think he needs to be on the field more than he is already. 

The rotation is far too equitable.

[Airseven]

19 hours ago, BBFL said:

Watched the game again… 3 man pressure was nuts from Cinci’ whilst we invest a large portion of our resources in a DLine and rushers who at times go absolutely invisible. 

😔

Bingo.