Groot’s development

[John from Riverside]

11 hours ago, Eastport bills said:

Rousseau is light in the pants. He can’t pressure the QB and although he blocks an occasional pass, his slight frame makes him a liability in the run game. Lawson and AJ have been more impactful.

Lol

[PBF81]

On 11/6/2023 at 12:37 PM, LabattBlue said:

Same as Oliver & AJE.  Just when you think they are turning the corner, they disappear.  

 

This isn't uncommon for us.  Seems like in recent seasons we've come out of the gate swinging as if it play in September determined our playoffs lot.  

 

We end up playing at an unsustainable pace, everyone gets worked up and extrapolates gaudy stats out to a full season, which is also ridiculous, and then that pace is predictably slowed and everyone wonders what's wrong.

 

What's wrong is that you can't play like that all season, it's probably fed into our injuries, it helps when you face a couple of teams like Washington & the Raiders, and get overly amped up for our first tough home game, as we always do, which feeds into the entire scenario.  

 

Good coaching would have us playing on more of an even keel all season and not so much in spurts and fits a couple of times during the season.  

 

It's also good coaching to have an on-field methodology and philosophy that enables you to do that.  

 

We have neither off those.  Hence our issues.  ... after seven seasons.  

 

 

[Beast]

The failures at DE just mean we will have to spend even more resources on that position in the near future.

[C.Biscuit97]

I had the over 7.75 sack season total. Thought it was a lay up.

 

this regime is not very good at scouting rbs and D linemen. 

[warrior9]

On 11/6/2023 at 11:38 AM, Bagwell358 said:

He's another example of Beane not hitting on his first or second round picks. 

 

That same year Miami took Jaelen Phillips. His impact is much greater. 

 

I dont know the issue overall but there are too many DEs on this roster making a lot of money to not impact the QB more. Last night was a perfect example. The fact we are having to blitz as often as we are says alot about where this group is at. 

In what sense? How is anyone having an impact on one of the worst defenses in the NFL? He has 3.5 sacks this year. 

 

Do you watch football or are you just picking names and saying they're better for the sake of it? 

[Bagwell358]

On 11/8/2023 at 12:21 PM, warrior9 said:

In what sense? How is anyone having an impact on one of the worst defenses in the NFL? He has 3.5 sacks this year. 

 

Do you watch football or are you just picking names and saying they're better for the sake of it? 

 

I do watch games. All of them. Have you been watching? Have you noticed Greg Rousseau the past month? He had two sacks against Miami and nothing for five weeks after. Same disappearing act as last year. 

 

Phillips 3.5 sacks is .5 more than Rousseau while missing 3 games to Rousseau's one. He also has a sack in each of the last three weeks.

 

Do you want me to keep going? 

 

Do you watch games or are you just looking at total season stats?

[billsfan89]

On 11/6/2023 at 9:44 AM, strive_for_five_guy said:

Bold prediction:  Once Linval Joseph is on the field more and Douglas is in at CB full-time, the rest of our DL will look way better.

 

This defense has been reeling from the injuries, AND playing against an elite QB like Burrow did not help.  Hosting Russell Wilson on MNF and then Zach Wilson seem like a great get-right spots for this D-line.

 

The defense after a really bad first half gave the offense a chance in the second half. They forced a punt and then a turnover on downs on the Bengal's first two drives and then a field goal on the third drive they had. When you give up 24 points to a very good offense like the Bengals your offense has a chance to win. 

 

It really was the slow offensive/defensive start and the Kincaid fumble that buried the Bills. Had Kincaid not fumble the Bills would have had the ball down 11 at about the 13 of the Bengals on a first down or a 2nd and short with 13.5 minutes left enough for 1-2 more offensive possessions. A field goal cuts the lead to a one-score game a TD gets you to 3-5 points down depending on the 2pt conversion. 

 

That's not to say had the Bills not fumbled there the Bills would have won the game but rather the complexion of the game changes with a good amount of time left and gives the Bills a chance. Really what would have been critical would have been for the Bills to have at least cut the Bengals lead from 21-7 to 21-14 before the half. Down 7 with the ball to start the half is vastly different than down 14. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

57 minutes ago, Bagwell358 said:

 

I do watch games. All of them. Have you been watching? Have you noticed Greg Rousseau the past month? He had two sacks against Miami and nothing for five weeks after. Same disappearing act as last year. 

 

Phillips 3.5 sacks is .5 more than Rousseau while missing 3 games to Rousseau's one. He also has a sack in each of the last three weeks.

 

Do you want me to keep going? 

 

Do you watch games or are you just looking at total season stats?

 

Well lets see here.. Phillips has played in 278 snaps this year... Rousseau has played in 280....  So the games argument doesn't mean much.  

 

Rousseau has 5 QB hurries, 6 QB Knockdowns, 3 sacks which totals 14 pressures.  

 

Phillips has 4 QB hurries, 2 QB Knockdowns, and 3.5 sacks which totals 10 pressures (but really 9.5)

 

No dog in the fight, but they seem to me to be similar results.  Then thinking situationally on usage - Floyd and Miller have been playing more third downs pass rushing in the last few weeks, so some of those 280 snaps are likely to be early downs.  I don't have split data that would say one way or another, but just another observation.  

 

You also earlier made an argument that Phillips was taken in the same draft so Beane doesn't evaluate talent... Phillips was taken at pick 18.  Buffalo picked rousseau at pick 30.  You're complaining that we drafted the wrong player when the "right" one wasn't even available.  Why not draft Parsons if we're just picking the best player and saying we should've drafted him? 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

I’ve heard Groot is playing with a “significant” foot injury. 

[BillsPride12]

6 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

I’ve heard Groot is playing with a “significant” foot injury. 

That wouldn't surprise me, he looks like a completely different player than he did at the beginning of the season.  I don't think he's just dogging it out there.  But on the flipside this is starting to become a pattern with him and the injuries.  I worry about this being a constant thing for a guy with his size and build.  I watched that Bill Walton 30 for 30 over the Summmer and it talked about how he was plagued with foot injuries his entire career that really prevented him from maximizing his full potential.  First thing I thought of after Groot got the initial foot injury.  

[T master]

I think it's great that the Bills switch people out for other players quite a bit to keep them fresh but some need to get into a rhythm & need to play more plays to set up what they are trying to do when rushing .

 

I seem to remember Von saying he works a lot of the game to set up blockers to later in the game blow them up for a couple of sacks . I guess it helps to learn what  & how your opponent is blocking you then change attack to confuse the blocker .

[Dr.Sack]

Von Miller is still playing worse imho. Groot and Miller are clearly playing below 100% health. We could use the bye week now.

[warrior9]

18 hours ago, Bagwell358 said:

 

I do watch games. All of them. Have you been watching? Have you noticed Greg Rousseau the past month? He had two sacks against Miami and nothing for five weeks after. Same disappearing act as last year. 

 

Phillips 3.5 sacks is .5 more than Rousseau while missing 3 games to Rousseau's one. He also has a sack in each of the last three weeks.

 

Do you want me to keep going? 

 

Do you watch games or are you just looking at total season stats?

I do, in fact, watch games bubbaccino. But the fact you're saying we missed on Phillips by taking Groot is hilarious. 

 

Groot is better in most aspects of the game of football than Phillips. 

17 hours ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Well lets see here.. Phillips has played in 278 snaps this year... Rousseau has played in 280....  So the games argument doesn't mean much.  

 

Rousseau has 5 QB hurries, 6 QB Knockdowns, 3 sacks which totals 14 pressures.  

 

Phillips has 4 QB hurries, 2 QB Knockdowns, and 3.5 sacks which totals 10 pressures (but really 9.5)

 

No dog in the fight, but they seem to me to be similar results.  Then thinking situationally on usage - Floyd and Miller have been playing more third downs pass rushing in the last few weeks, so some of those 280 snaps are likely to be early downs.  I don't have split data that would say one way or another, but just another observation.  

 

You also earlier made an argument that Phillips was taken in the same draft so Beane doesn't evaluate talent... Phillips was taken at pick 18.  Buffalo picked rousseau at pick 30.  You're complaining that we drafted the wrong player when the "right" one wasn't even available.  Why not draft Parsons if we're just picking the best player and saying we should've drafted him? 

LOL .. .exactly ... Don't worry, he doesn't "just look at stats" though and watches all the games ... but doesn't know when each was picked and that Groot is infinitely better than Philips. If anything, Miami missed. 

[NewEra]

18 hours ago, Bagwell358 said:

 

I do watch games. All of them. Have you been watching? Have you noticed Greg Rousseau the past month? He had two sacks against Miami and nothing for five weeks after. Same disappearing act as last year. 

 

Phillips 3.5 sacks is .5 more than Rousseau while missing 3 games to Rousseau's one. He also has a sack in each of the last three weeks.

 

Do you want me to keep going? 

 

Do you watch games or are you just looking at total season stats?

You watch every game.  🤣 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

58 minutes ago, NewEra said:

You watch every game.  🤣 

 

 

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

At this point in his career, he’s a run of the mill starter. A lot of number one picks are nothing more than that.  He won’t kill you, but he’s just not that impactful. I guess we should be happy that he’s not a bust. 

[McBean]

On 11/6/2023 at 11:38 AM, Bagwell358 said:

He's another example of Beane not hitting on his first or second round picks. 

 

That same year Miami took Jaelen Phillips. His impact is much greater. 

 

I dont know the issue overall but there are too many DEs on this roster making a lot of money to not impact the QB more. Last night was a perfect example. The fact we are having to blitz as often as we are says alot about where this group is at. 

McDermott not hitting on his picks. Not Beane.

 

Beane is a puppet.

[dave mcbride]

On 11/8/2023 at 9:48 AM, C.Biscuit97 said:

I had the over 7.75 sack season total. Thought it was a lay up.

 

this regime is not very good at scouting rbs and D linemen. 

He’s genuinely injured. I wish fans would think hard about that and factor it in before they pass judgment.

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/professional/nfl/bills/inside-the-bills-greg-rousseau-gutting-it-out-through-foot-injury/article_b48a8a66-7fdd-11ee-a5ce-ffae0985a19b.html

The Buffalo Bills’ third-year defensive end is trying to play through a foot injury suffered in Week 4 against the Miami Dolphins. The injury forced Rousseau to miss the team’s Week 5 loss to the Jaguars, but he’s since tried to gut it out.

“It’s tough, for sure. It takes some getting used to, being hurt, playing with something,” Rousseau said Thursday. “But, I mean, it’s part of the game. 
…

”Right or wrong, defensive ends are judged largely on sacks. While those haven’t been there for Rousseau the last month, there are signs he’s close. He had two quarterback hits against the Bengals, and his grade of 89.6 (out of 100) from analytics website Pro Football Focus was the second best on the Bills’ defense, behind only Tim Settle (90.3) for the game.

On the season, Rousseau’s grade of 82.6 ranks fourth on the defense. 

…

“I feel like I am getting better week to week,” said Rousseau, who estimated he’s playing at about 75% right now. “There were some rushes I wanted back at the end of the game, but the first quarter, I had two QB hits right off the bat. I feel like I’m rushing pretty solid. I’ve just got to keep getting better.”

McDermott agreed with that assessment.

“Any time you’re coming off an injury, it’s not easy,” he said. “You’re not yourself and so you’re dealing with it not only physically, but mentally, and I saw some things this past game that I thought were ‘Hey, he’s starting to really get back into who he is.’ 

With all the injuries suffered to the Bills’ defense, it’s imperative that the defensive line lead the way for the rest of the unit. That’s part of the reason why Rousseau didn’t miss more time with his injury.

…

That approach has earned the respect of his teammates, who have a better sense of what Rousseau is battling through.

“He could very easily say, ‘No, I don’t want to. I’m going to wait until I’m fully healthy,’ kind of put himself above everything,” defensive end A.J. Epenesa said. “He’s humble enough to play through things. He’s still an elite player when he does that. Watching him out there, knowing he’s hurting, and him doing the things he’s doing to sacrifice his body and to make plays for us as a team and as a defense. We know Greg as a person, and we know that’s the kind of guy he is, so it doesn’t surprise me, but it makes me feel good to know you’ve got teammates who really care about you and this team. Having guys like Greg in the building make it fun to come to work every day.”

[Not at the table Karlos]

On 11/9/2023 at 3:25 PM, Bagwell358 said:

 

I do watch games. All of them. Have you been watching? Have you noticed Greg Rousseau the past month? He had two sacks against Miami and nothing for five weeks after. Same disappearing act as last year. 

 

Phillips 3.5 sacks is .5 more than Rousseau while missing 3 games to Rousseau's one. He also has a sack in each of the last three weeks.

 

Do you want me to keep going? 

 

Do you watch games or are you just looking at total season stats?

He has a broken bone in his foot. Thinking that doesn’t have an impact on his play is idiotic. 

[dave mcbride]

10 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

He has a broken bone in his foot. Thinking that doesn’t have an impact on his play is idiotic. 

Truth.

[BillsFan2313]

On 11/9/2023 at 3:25 PM, Bagwell358 said:

 

I do watch games. All of them. Have you been watching? Have you noticed Greg Rousseau the past month? He had two sacks against Miami and nothing for five weeks after. Same disappearing act as last year. 

 

Phillips 3.5 sacks is .5 more than Rousseau while missing 3 games to Rousseau's one. He also has a sack in each of the last three weeks.

 

Do you want me to keep going? 

 

Do you watch games or are you just looking at total season stats?

 

 

Phillips was also the 18th pick, and Groot was the 30th. Your acting like Phillips was available when we selected. 

[NewEra]

Iirc, started out great last year, suffered a high ankle sprain and was never great again.  This year, started out great, someone fell on his ankle, was never the same again.  🤦🏻‍♂️ 

[dave mcbride]

37 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Iirc, started out great last year, suffered a high ankle sprain and was never great again.  This year, started out great, someone fell on his ankle, was never the same again.  🤦🏻‍♂️ 

Foot this time. Broken bone, apparently.

[C.Biscuit97]

4 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

He’s genuinely injured. I wish fans would think hard about that and factor it in before they pass judgment.

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/professional/nfl/bills/inside-the-bills-greg-rousseau-gutting-it-out-through-foot-injury/article_b48a8a66-7fdd-11ee-a5ce-ffae0985a19b.html

The Buffalo Bills’ third-year defensive end is trying to play through a foot injury suffered in Week 4 against the Miami Dolphins. The injury forced Rousseau to miss the team’s Week 5 loss to the Jaguars, but he’s since tried to gut it out.

“It’s tough, for sure. It takes some getting used to, being hurt, playing with something,” Rousseau said Thursday. “But, I mean, it’s part of the game. 
…

”Right or wrong, defensive ends are judged largely on sacks. While those haven’t been there for Rousseau the last month, there are signs he’s close. He had two quarterback hits against the Bengals, and his grade of 89.6 (out of 100) from analytics website Pro Football Focus was the second best on the Bills’ defense, behind only Tim Settle (90.3) for the game.

On the season, Rousseau’s grade of 82.6 ranks fourth on the defense. 

…

“I feel like I am getting better week to week,” said Rousseau, who estimated he’s playing at about 75% right now. “There were some rushes I wanted back at the end of the game, but the first quarter, I had two QB hits right off the bat. I feel like I’m rushing pretty solid. I’ve just got to keep getting better.”

McDermott agreed with that assessment.

“Any time you’re coming off an injury, it’s not easy,” he said. “You’re not yourself and so you’re dealing with it not only physically, but mentally, and I saw some things this past game that I thought were ‘Hey, he’s starting to really get back into who he is.’ 

With all the injuries suffered to the Bills’ defense, it’s imperative that the defensive line lead the way for the rest of the unit. That’s part of the reason why Rousseau didn’t miss more time with his injury.

…

That approach has earned the respect of his teammates, who have a better sense of what Rousseau is battling through.

“He could very easily say, ‘No, I don’t want to. I’m going to wait until I’m fully healthy,’ kind of put himself above everything,” defensive end A.J. Epenesa said. “He’s humble enough to play through things. He’s still an elite player when he does that. Watching him out there, knowing he’s hurting, and him doing the things he’s doing to sacrifice his body and to make plays for us as a team and as a defense. We know Greg as a person, and we know that’s the kind of guy he is, so it doesn’t surprise me, but it makes me feel good to know you’ve got teammates who really care about you and this team. Having guys like Greg in the building make it fun to come to work every day.”

Completely fair and I willingly admit I’m just frustrated with the whole season. I will gladly point to that injury this off-season? But right now, honestly, I don’t care. Injuries are completely valid but there are just too many and too excuses for a season going sideways. Plus, stay healthy is what makes good players great. 
 

Did anyone care about Sammy Watkins’ broken foot, which might have hurt his whole career? I really like Groot but it’s just be becoming frustrating that he always seems to get hurt/ disappear when we need him most. 

[dave mcbride]

8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Completely fair and I willingly admit I’m just frustrated with the whole season. I will gladly point to that injury this off-season? But right now, honestly, I don’t care. Injuries are completely valid but there are just too many and too excuses for a season going sideways. Plus, stay healthy is what makes good players great. 
 

Did anyone care about Sammy Watkins’ broken foot, which might have hurt his whole career? I really like Groot but it’s just be becoming frustrating that he always seems to get hurt/ disappear when we need him most. 

I don’t think he’s injury prone; he’s not getting soft tissue injuries. The foot issue resulted from a person over 300 pounds landing/stepping on his foot. I think everyone gets injured when something like that happens. Just bad luck. But yeah, it’s all very frustrating.

Edited November 11, 2023 by dave mcbride

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

I don’t think he’s injury prone; he’s not getting soft tissue injuries. The foot issue resulted from a person over 300 pounds landing/stepping on his foot. I think everyone gets injured when something like that happens. Just bad luck. But yeah, it’s all very frustrating.

Yeah, patterns make me nervous. And while I am frustrated with the injuries, foot injuries are sneaky bad ones that can linger a long time. Sucks because everyone says he’s a great guy as well. 
 

we need some difference makers now that we have retirement home Von.

[finn]

On 11/6/2023 at 12:44 PM, VaMilBill said:

Say what you want about groo, but last night in that last 3rd down for the bengals, if Groot was on the field over Von, I think Groot makes that tackle. Von sucks

Von did look slow. If he can't chase, hold the edge, or rush the passer, why is he on the field? I realize he needs reps to get back into form, but you don't want him in there when the game is still in doubt, right? 

 

Have other teams suffered as many injuries as the Bills the past two seasons? Miller, Hyde, White, Milano, Jones... To say nothing of Hamlin, Harris, and Hynes, and degrading injuries to Allen, Poyer, Davis, and Groot. Sure, Aaron Rogers' Achilles probably trumps them all combined, but still, what a motherlode of injuries. 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yeah, patterns make me nervous. And while I am frustrated with the injuries, foot injuries are sneaky bad ones that can linger a long time. Sucks because everyone says he’s a great guy as well. 
 

we need some difference makers now that we have retirement home Von.

As much as you’re kidding here, this would 100% be the best thing that could happen at this point IMO (aside from returning to HOF elite status and winning a Super Bowl)

[VaMilBill]

5 hours ago, finn said:

Von did look slow. If he can't chase, hold the edge, or rush the passer, why is he on the field? I realize he needs reps to get back into form, but you don't want him in there when the game is still in doubt, right? 

 

Have other teams suffered as many injuries as the Bills the past two seasons? Miller, Hyde, White, Milano, Jones... To say nothing of Hamlin, Harris, and Hynes, and degrading injuries to Allen, Poyer, Davis, and Groot. Sure, Aaron Rogers' Achilles probably trumps them all combined, but still, what a motherlode of injuries. 

Agreed on both counts. 
 

part of the reason why we did so well in 2021 was because we were unusually healthy. However, with all the injuries on defense this year, they have played well enough to win. The offense just hasn’t taken games over like the used to and like they should.