Simms: Gabe Davis is a good player, but he's not a number two

[SydneyBillsFan]

 

[BBFL]

Well this’ll make all the armchair GMs puff their chest. 
 

Half the board’s been saying this 😂

[ngbills]

Many wont say it until he is gone. When he is not resigned the story will change to he was not a #2 but wanted #2 money. 

[newcam2012]

5 minutes ago, SydneyBillsFan said:

 

I think Simms must have listened to what I've been saying. 

 

I wish Davis the best next year on his new team. 

[Buffalo Ballin]

Too bad that "Playoff Gabe Davis" doesn't show up during the regular season.

 

Reminds me of former Laker and Spur Robert Horry and Giants QB Eli Manning. They're inconsistent and low key during the regular season, but when playoff time comes, it's beast mode on.

[BillsFan130]

Gabe had a perfect role in 2020 and in 2021.

 

Benefitted when teams didn't put a lot of focus on him and capitalized on a lot of Josh Allen scrambles.

 

His problem is he struggles to consistently separate against CB2s, and has inconsistent hands

 

Not a good combo for a WR2

[Brand J]

What’s the average contract for a WR3? 

[BigDingus]

What does "not a number 2" even mean anymore?

 

Do you really mean he's not a number 1 playing the number 2 role like Jalen Waddle, Tee Higgins, Tyler Lockett or Devonta Smith?

 

What kind of production do you want out of your WR2? The vast majority of NFL teams would be thrilled to have a WR2 that puts up 800+ yards, 7 TD's & extends the field like Gabe does.

 

Even right now, he's ranked #27 in receiving yards (automatically putting him ahead of multiple #1's), tied for 4th place in TD's with 5 others (ahead of others like Jamar Chase, Amon-Ra St. Brown, Travis Kelce, Mike Evans, and many other WR1's, TE's, and RB's), and is only 61st in receptions. 

 

I'd say he's more than adequate as a WR2, with the only issue being he's not as big a threat in the short-intermediate game as we'd like.

[KDIGGZ]

Gabe often plays like #2.

 

He would be the best WR3 in the league if we had a real #2 on this team. I want either a corner or a WR2 at the trade deadline or I'm challenging Beane to fisticuffs 

[BillsFan130]

2 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

What does "not a number 2" even mean anymore?

 

Do you really mean he's not a number 1 playing the number 2 role like Jalen Waddle, Tee Higgins, Tyler Lockett or Devonta Smith?

 

What kind of production do you want out of your WR2? The vast majority of NFL teams would be thrilled to have a WR2 that puts up 800+ yards, 7 TD's & extends the field like Gabe does.

 

Even right now, he's ranked #27 in receiving yards (automatically putting him ahead of multiple #1's), tied for 4th place in TD's with 5 others (ahead of others like Jamar Chase, Amon-Ra St. Brown, Travis Kelce, Mike Evans, and many other WR1's, TE's, and RB's), and is only 61st in receptions. 

 

I'd say he's more than adequate as a WR2, with the only issue being he's not as big a threat in the short-intermediate game as we'd like.

But if we just look at “stats “, we also have to look deeper into the full picture 

 

How many targets he gets? And from that what’s his catch percentage? Drops? Contested catch rate? QB rating when targeting him?

 

Those numbers ^ were horrible for Gabe last year, and I’m guessing they aren’t great this year. (Maybe QB rating is ok as of this point)

[GustheDog33]

Big Game Gabe! He disappears for long stretches. Not sure what to attribute that to… he isn’t open or Josh is tired of the shenanigans so doesn’t throw to him. More than likely, though, Josh looks to Diggs 1st and Diggs is usually open. 

[dave mcbride]

6 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

What does "not a number 2" even mean anymore?

 

Do you really mean he's not a number 1 playing the number 2 role like Jalen Waddle, Tee Higgins, Tyler Lockett or Devonta Smith?

 

What kind of production do you want out of your WR2? The vast majority of NFL teams would be thrilled to have a WR2 that puts up 800+ yards, 7 TD's & extends the field like Gabe does.

 

Even right now, he's ranked #27 in receiving yards (automatically putting him ahead of multiple #1's), tied for 4th place in TD's with 5 others (ahead of others like Jamar Chase, Amon-Ra St. Brown, Travis Kelce, Mike Evans, and many other WR1's, TE's, and RB's), and is only 61st in receptions. 

 

I'd say he's more than adequate as a WR2, with the only issue being he's not as big a threat in the short-intermediate game as we'd like.

You’re focusing on numbers rather than his inability to separate, his shaky hands, and the fact that his numbers are mostly a product of the most talented QB in the league throwing to him because he’s (unfortunately) the second option.

[Warcodered]

Simms has basically been saying Josh needs more help all offseason.

[Low Positive]

I swear Simms reads these boards for topic ideas. If I was in his business, I would too. Guaranteed clicks because you’re feeding into existing arguments.

 

[LABILLBACKER]

17 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Many wont say it until he is gone. When he is not resigned the story will change to he was not a #2 but wanted #2 money. 

I'll say it now like I have for the last 3 years. He's not nor ever has been a #2. Nice #3 but no way we pay him anymore than keeping Edmunds. 

[uticaclub]

6 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

I swear Simms reads these boards for topic ideas. If I was in his business, I would too. Guaranteed clicks because you’re feeding into existing arguments.

 

What we say is pretty obvious to anyone that pays attention or watches multiple Bills game. Most of us are just fans, very few experts I’m certainly not one

[oldmanfan]

15 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

Gabe often plays like #2.

 

He would be the best WR3 in the league if we had a real #2 on this team. I want either a corner or a WR2 at the trade deadline or I'm challenging Beane to fisticuffs 

And he’d kick your ass.

[Maine-iac]

The problem isn't that Gabe isn't a #2 WR.  The problem is that there is no one catching passes outside of him and Diggs.  If we had a slot WR or TE who caught lots of underneath stuff and ran the seam once in a while (like Beasley used to) then we wouldn't be so focused on Davis catching 90 passes being more like Diggs.  We need a chain mover and Davis isn't a chain mover therefore it must be Davis's fault, except it isn't.

[oldmanfan]

The guy who predicted we’d lose to the Raiders.

[Maine-iac]

ps I wish Simms would grow some eyebrows.

[Big Blitz]

There is something off about this move to more 12 personnel and how it came about.  
 

You didn’t really hear anything about it being a focus in 2022 for Dorsey in year 1 unless I missed something.  
 

But then we drafted Kincaid as if this was the justification we needed to go to 12. 
 

 

If we had Amon-Ra St. Brown on this team would we be running 12?  Or shoot even Josh Downs or Tank Dell.  
 

More importantly, does this fit what Josh does best which is big plays and throws down field no one else can make.  If we want to be a PA team under center a lot more I get it but we aren’t.  
 

So are we justifying Kincaid or are we truly believers in 12 personnel as the base of our offense.  
 

Because I think with THIS Oline the O we were running pre Dorsey is the O we would want.  Of course I just think that O needed a great to elite RB and we would have been lights out but I’ll bring up Breece Hall again some other time.  
 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2023 by Big Blitz

[DapperCam]

Simms is so uninvited from the Super Bowl parade

[Low Positive]

Just now, Big Blitz said:

There is something off about this move to more 12 personnel and how it came about.  
 

You didn’t really hear anything about it being a focus in 2022 for Dorsey in year 1 unless I missed something.  
 

But then we drafted Kincaid as if this was the justification we needed to go to 12. 
 

 

If we had Amon-Ra St. Brown on this team would we be running 12?  Or shoot even Josh Downs or Tank Dell.  
 

More importantly, does this fit what Josh does best which is big plays and throws down field no one else can make.  If we want to be a PA team under center a lot more I get it but we aren’t.  
 

So are we justifying Kincaid or are we truly believers in 12 personnel as the base of our offense.  
 

Because I think with THIS Oline the O we were running pre Dorsey is the O we would want.  Or course I just think that O needed a great to elite RB and we would have been lights out but I’ll bring up Breece Hall again some other time.  

Dorsey wanted to use 12 personnel last year. That’s why the Bills brought in OJ Howard. It didn’t work out, as we all know.

[strive_for_five_guy]

Maybe Davis is a WR 2.5?

[Big Blitz]

3 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

Dorsey wanted to use 12 personnel last year. That’s why the Bills brought in OJ Howard. It didn’t work out, as we all know.

 

Well I guess that’s my issue than.  

 

We can’t have at one time our weapons on the field if we pass be a rookie TE, Knox, whatever RB we throw out there that the D will gladly let us check down to, and then Davis.  

 

Then the 3 wide sets become Harty or Shakir. 
 

 

We need another WR if Gabe ain’t it.  Or, you need to find a great slot guy that finally adequately replaces what Beasely gave us.  
 

[BillsFan130]

24 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

There is something off about this move to more 12 personnel and how it came about.  
 

You didn’t really hear anything about it being a focus in 2022 for Dorsey in year 1 unless I missed something.  
 

But then we drafted Kincaid as if this was the justification we needed to go to 12. 
 

 

If we had Amon-Ra St. Brown on this team would we be running 12?  Or shoot even Josh Downs or Tank Dell.  
 

More importantly, does this fit what Josh does best which is big plays and throws down field no one else can make.  If we want to be a PA team under center a lot more I get it but we aren’t.  
 

So are we justifying Kincaid or are we truly believers in 12 personnel as the base of our offense.  
 

Because I think with THIS Oline the O we were running pre Dorsey is the O we would want.  Or course I just think that O needed a great to elite RB and we would have been lights out but I’ll bring up Breece Hall again some other time.  

Not a fan of forcing the 12 personnel at all.

 

Josh is a pro bowl/all pro QB who lived in 11 personnel and loved throwing to WRs the past 3 years.

 

So I am not exactly sure why we are forcing 12 and trying to fit a square peg in a round hole

 

 

Edited October 19, 2023 by BillsFan130

[oldmanfan]

Wake me up when someone can define # 2 WR.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

The issue is not Davis. The issue is lack of production from the slot pass catcher whoever that is. 

Davis is a home run threat with big YPC. 

They need a true underneath threat to force the Linebackers and corners to play the short zone. That leaves Davis to carve up the safeties like he did against KC in the playoff game. 

[Ray Finkel]

You can’t be a number 2 when your number 1 is a crying B word

[SydneyBillsFan]

6 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Wake me up when someone can define # 2 WR.

 

A WR2 is a WR who is nominally superior to your WR3, but inferior to your WR1.

 

Consider this your TBD caffeine hit for the day.

[DJB]

We can argue whether Davis fits as a #2 or not , the point is if we want to hang with the big boys we need an upgrade from him. 
 

I can’t fathom how we pay him huge money next year when he’s not a difference maker nor will he ever take on the #1 WR spot once Diggs retires 

 

 

[The Firebaugh Kid]

People aren’t gonna like it, but I think this has a lot to do with how good Cole Beasley was in this offense.
Gabe excelled in the number three role but seems to struggle as a number two. 

And where the hell is Dalton?

[Richard Noggin]

43 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

1 hour ago, KDIGGZ said:

I want either a corner or a WR2 at the trade deadline or I'm challenging Beane to fisticuffs 

 

44 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

And he’d kick your ass.

 

 

Eh? Big Baller Beane is a solid GM, an excellent communicator, and all around likeable dude. But he is NOT someone who intimidates or kicks anyone's ass (physically). 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

10 minutes ago, Ray Finkel said:

You can’t be a number 2 when your number 1 is a crying B word

Weak

[Sherlock Holmes]

27 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Well I guess that’s my issue than.  

 

We can’t have at one time our weapons on the field if we pass be a rookie TE, Knox, whatever RB we throw out there that the D will gladly let us check down to, and then Davis.  

 

Then the 3 wide sets become Harty or Shakir. 
 

 

We need another WR if Gabe ain’t it.  Or, you need to find a great slot guy that finally adequately replaces what Beasely gave us.  
 

Renfrow!!

[Richard Noggin]

54 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

There is something off about this move to more 12 personnel and how it came about.  
 

You didn’t really hear anything about it being a focus in 2022 for Dorsey in year 1 unless I missed something.  
 

But then we drafted Kincaid as if this was the justification we needed to go to 12. 
 

 

If we had Amon-Ra St. Brown on this team would we be running 12?  Or shoot even Josh Downs or Tank Dell.  
 

More importantly, does this fit what Josh does best which is big plays and throws down field no one else can make.  If we want to be a PA team under center a lot more I get it but we aren’t.  
 

So are we justifying Kincaid or are we truly believers in 12 personnel as the base of our offense.  
 

Because I think with THIS Oline the O we were running pre Dorsey is the O we would want.  Of course I just think that O needed a great to elite RB and we would have been lights out but I’ll bring up Breece Hall again some other time.  
 

 

 

 

50 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

Dorsey wanted to use 12 personnel last year. That’s why the Bills brought in OJ Howard. It didn’t work out, as we all know.

 

It was talked about a LOT going into last season that Dorsey operated almost exclusively out of 12 personnel in college (with those TEs, who wouldn't?), and also the Carolina offense he came from had used that package extensively. This was widely projected to be an increased emphasis last year, if they'd had the players to run it. Now they (presumably) do.

 

25 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Wake me up when someone can define # 2 WR.

 

I use the term a lot myself, and must admit this is a good point (delivered with arrogance, because the internet).

Edited October 19, 2023 by Richard Noggin

[Ya Digg?]

So here’s the way I see it. 6,8,10 years ago, Gabe is easily viewed as a #2 and pretty good one to boot. Unfortunately in today’s game where several teams essentially have a #1 running as their #2 we all see that and we want what those teams have. The idea that the dolphins and Eagles used top 10 picks on #2 receivers is absurd, but it has clearly helped their offenses 

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, BigDingus said:

What does "not a number 2" even mean anymore?

 

Do you really mean he's not a number 1 playing the number 2 role like Jalen Waddle, Tee Higgins, Tyler Lockett or Devonta Smith?

 

What kind of production do you want out of your WR2? The vast majority of NFL teams would be thrilled to have a WR2 that puts up 800+ yards, 7 TD's & extends the field like Gabe does.

 

Even right now, he's ranked #27 in receiving yards (automatically putting him ahead of multiple #1's), tied for 4th place in TD's with 5 others (ahead of others like Jamar Chase, Amon-Ra St. Brown, Travis Kelce, Mike Evans, and many other WR1's, TE's, and RB's), and is only 61st in receptions. 

 

I'd say he's more than adequate as a WR2, with the only issue being he's not as big a threat in the short-intermediate game as we'd like.

Correct. 

 

The debate between "Is Gabe better as a WR2 or as a WR3" is all because we do not have a slot player. 

 

Would our offense be better if we had a good slot player taking 30% of Gabe's targets and 10-20% of Diggs'?  Yes.

 

Does that mean Gabe isn't a good starting boundary WR in the NFL?  No.

 

Saying Gabe Davis isn't a good enough #2 is missing the forest for the trees.

[Solomon Grundy]

33 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Wake me up when someone can define # 2 WR.

Diggs 2.0!! 

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, BBFL said:

Well this’ll make all the armchair GMs puff their chest. 
 

Half the board’s been saying this 😂

 

It should give pause to the Beane supporters.  

 

 

34 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Wake me up when someone can define # 2 WR.

 

And as if they're all identical on every team.