Silver linings with the Injuries?

[BuffaloBaumer]

The more and more I am listening to the experts, the more our depth is looking like they just might be ok in the end. Whether that is this year, or next year, the future looks pretty darn bright for a youth movement. With Rousseau out, and Von barely playing, AJ stepped into the spotlight bigtime. THis Jonathan kid is also getting really good reviews and could end up being a steal on the edge. 

 

The loss of Jones is a massive one in every way but let's see what Ford can do on the run stuffing game. Ed Oliver has broken through and the Oline is better than we thought when the season began. As long as Benford can come back, and there are no more injuries at that position, the pass rush should offset the hit the secondary took. 

 

It will be interesting to see how Bernard does without Milano so that is a big question mark. Can Dodson step up into a major role? Hopefully Von can get back to 100% by the time the playoffs start and if that happens, the defense should be just fine. If Buffalo has to take a wild card and go on the road for a game, so be it. I think they are still taking the division and the next 3 games will be perfect to get the newbies settled. 

 

Lastly, Elam cannot possibly be this bad, he just can't. They threw him into a no win situation and that was a bad coaching decision. I would start him again vs the Giants and put him on a very short leash. Get him some confidence and hopefully Buffalo gets a big lead and does not have to worry about it. 

 

 

[Special K]

Elam was inactive weeks 1-4 for a reason......his performance in week 5 was a visual representation of that reason.

 

There’s no reason to think the D can’t be serviceable, but the chances of stopping the top offenses without Milano, Jones, White are not good.

[stevestojan]

All bull#### aside, I reallllly want to agree with the part that “Elam cannot possibly be this bad.” 
 

I mean there are draft busts, but at the corner position you need speed and ball awareness. Seems like those are fairly (in the grand scheme) easy to identify how they would translate from college to pro. I’m not saying everyone will be the next Rod Woodson, but my god, he literally looks like he played the position in JV and he’s our 11th option at his position; playing emergency CB. 
 

I’d argue “maybe he’s been hurt and the team is hiding it” but no. 
 

Maybe it’s the NFL version of the yips? But those generally come after you’ve done anything really well. 
 

I can’t think of a worse first round pick right now. Williams? Losman maybe? 

[transplantbillsfan]

Buffalo got depth this offseason for a reason, but the Milano loss is devastating just because of how unique he is as a player.

 

With that said, it's important to note that along with playing most of that game without Jones and Milano, we also played most of it without Von, who was on a pitch count. Added to that, we were without Rousseau and Benford, both of whom we clearly missed.

 

Before the loss of Tre last week and then Jones and Milano this week I would have said this team was the best Ds in the NFL and had the potential to be one of the best Ds in history--sorry Jets. Now as long as we get Benford, Groot and Von back healthy within the next couple weeks (is anyone really worried about the Giants???), I still think we can manage to be a top 5 or at least a top 10 D. As much criticism as McDermott is getting right now for the flight decision to London, he’s been a massive upgrade over Frazier calling the D. Anyone arguing otherwise is blind.

 

Add in the fact that AJE suddenly is playing with his hair on fire, Oliver looks fantastic, and our back 7 still at least has Po and Hyde to help Bernard with communication and I think we'll be fine... just PLEASE GOD NO MORE INJURIES!!!!

 

Genuinely curious what McDermott does at LB. That's obviously worrisome now.

 

But a Josh Allen helmed team with a top 5-10 offense will be just fine. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Bills signed Floyd, Ford, and Rapp for insurance purposes. Losing Jones sucks, but that DL is playing lights out right now. Poona Ford/Tim Settle are going to have plenty of 1-1 situations, they only need to be solid with Oliver, Floyd, Groot and AJ playing at an elite level. Shaq and Jordan haven’t been slouches either.

 

Milano is a huge loss, but Dorian Williams was a 3rd round pick and OLB doesn’t have the same heavy responsibilities that MLB has if we see Dodson.

 

CB is a concern, but Dane Jackson is a proven capable CB and Christian Benford looks to be the same kind of player. 
 

If the DL can maintain their elite play it will take the pressure off the very young LBs, CBs, and aged Safeties.

[Jauronimo]

There are none to be found.

[transplantbillsfan]

9 minutes ago, Special K said:

Elam was inactive weeks 1-4 for a reason......his performance in week 5 was a visual representation of that reason.

 

There’s no reason to think the D can’t be serviceable, but the chances of stopping the top offenses without Milano, Jones, White are not good.

 

1 minute ago, stevestojan said:

All bull#### aside, I reallllly want to agree with the part that “Elam cannot possibly be this bad.” 
 

I mean there are draft busts, but at the corner position you need speed and ball awareness. Seems like those are fairly (in the grand scheme) easy to identify how they would translate from college to pro. I’m not saying everyone will be the next Rod Woodson, but my god, he literally looks like he played the position in JV and he’s our 11th option at his position; playing emergency CB. 
 

I’d argue “maybe he’s been hurt and the team is hiding it” but no. 
 

Maybe it’s the NFL version of the yips? But those generally come after you’ve done anything really well. 
 

I can’t think of a worse first round pick right now. Williams? Losman maybe? 

 

@HappyDays posted an All-22 thread with Joe Marino's analysis of the game. This is a guy who scouted college athletes for years with The Draft Network so he knows his stuff.

 

He said Elam wasn't as bad as he looked and the issues are correctable.

[Process]

We still have one of the best d lines in the league. 

 

The secondary is what concerns me. 

 

Hyde and Poyer are slow and washed up. That gets masked with a dominant front 7. I'm not sure we have that anymore.

 

And we have ZERO CB depth. As of right now we are one injury away (Benford) from having Micah Hyde covering a teams best WR on the most critical play of the game. 

[zow2]

You want to be playing your best football from Thanksgiving/Dec and on...  Hopefully this is the rough patch for the Bills with some close losses and injuries.  Then things settle down when the stakes are highest and they play great.  That is the silver lining for me if it works out.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Also, when Tre White popped his Achilles, he was announced the next day as out for season.

 

That hasn’t happened yet for Jones OR Milano, so hold out hope as we wait for the MRI. I get they likely are out for the year, but there is a chance they aren’t. Surgery doesn’t necessarily mean season ending. 
 

I’m an optimistic guy, you all know this. 

[muppy]

silver lining?  My sarcastic answer is we fans need more "character building"  aka learning how to deal with disappointment.

 

SMH my real answer is zippo NADA. 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by muppy

[Matt_In_NH]

AJ is in his last year but it is good for Dorian Williams and Elam (if there is any chance with him).  Kingsley Jonathan is probably part of the Bills longer term plans.   Lawson, Floyd, Epenesa are all on the last year of their deals.....they can be resigned but the Bills will continue to have challenges with money moving forward.

[SCBills]

We're getting to a point where the season ending injuries on defense have GOT to stop.. That being said, if we can get to the end of the season with:

 

Von/Floyd

Poona/Settle

Oliver/Phillips

Rousseau/AJE

 

Bernard/Dodson

Williams/Dodson

Johnson/Neal

 

Benford/Elam

Jackson/Elam

 

Poyer/Rapp

Hyde/Rapp

 

That is still a Championship caliber defense.   There is still the hope Milano and/or Jones can get back for the Playoffs.

 

If 1T is an issue.  If OLB is an issue.  If CB depth is an issue.  The trade deadline doesn't pass for a few more weeks.  We have a couple weeks to see if Poona Ford and Dorian Williams can be the in-house answers.  

 

Elam is not as bad as he showed in London.  He was arguable our best defensive player in the playoffs last year.  That said.. his performance, in a weird London setting, was beyond poor.  If that's the Elam we now have due to his lack of development, mental issues and/or struggles in McD's system... a move needs to be made, because we cannot have that on one side of the field.  That's a fatal flaw in the defense. 

 

The youth movement is real.  The Bills will have to decide after this season whether or not they're ready to embrace it.  Embracing it likely means this is the last year White, Hyde and Poyer are on the Bills roster. 

[Beast]

The front 4 is really going to have to get after it the rest of the season to get to where we want to be.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I’m not happy with where we are right now. Let me put that out there first so what I say doesn’t sound insane.

 

We are old and slow on defense. Eventually one of two things has to happen here….we win the Super Bowl, or we start to get younger on defense. These injuries don’t help. There’s no possible way to be happy about your better players being out. The guys behind them are on the bench for a reason….The one nice thing is we might get younger and faster here. If this coach is smart enough to play 43/42, we are going to be scary fast at LB. We are going to have some growing pains but those guys run with their hair on fire and will make plays. Not saying Milano isn’t fast but Williams moves like an animal. I was very excited to see him run around out there but he eventually was benched. Give the kid a chance.

 

Also on the backend, our secondary is old. A few younger guys back there might really give us a different dynamic. Guys with fresh legs might make a big difference against the better teams in the AFC. A lack of speed on the backend has really hurt us in the playoffs. An injection of youth back there might end up being a blessing in disguise. Poyer and White both were on the back 9 here, nobody wants to see it but having a few young guys get in there might close some passing windows.

 

The interior Dlineman being out is unfortunate but we went out and got Ford. He’d be a guy we’d all be asking for in a trade right now, we already gave him here so it might be ok. Plus if there is 1 thing we have over invested in, it’s Dline. It’s almost too much. If we can’t absorb a loss in there, then we have team construction issues.

[Mr. WEO]

11 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

 

@HappyDays posted an All-22 thread with Joe Marino's analysis of the game. This is a guy who scouted college athletes for years with The Draft Network so he knows his stuff.

 

He said Elam wasn't as bad as he looked and the issues are correctable.

how does Joe Marino know what’s correctable with Elam? Hadn’t the staff been trying to correct him?  I don’t get this

[JohnNord]

31 minutes ago, BuffaloBaumer said:

The more and more I am listening to the experts, the more our depth is looking like they just might be ok in the end. Whether that is this year, or next year, the future looks pretty darn bright for a youth movement. With Rousseau out, and Von barely playing, AJ stepped into the spotlight bigtime. THis Jonathan kid is also getting really good reviews and could end up being a steal on the edge. 

 

The loss of Jones is a massive one in every way but let's see what Ford can do on the run stuffing game. Ed Oliver has broken through and the Oline is better than we thought when the season began. As long as Benford can come back, and there are no more injuries at that position, the pass rush should offset the hit the secondary took. 

 

It will be interesting to see how Bernard does without Milano so that is a big question mark. Can Dodson step up into a major role? Hopefully Von can get back to 100% by the time the playoffs start and if that happens, the defense should be just fine. If Buffalo has to take a wild card and go on the road for a game, so be it. I think they are still taking the division and the next 3 games will be perfect to get the newbies settled. 

 

Lastly, Elam cannot possibly be this bad, he just can't. They threw him into a no win situation and that was a bad coaching decision. I would start him again vs the Giants and put him on a very short leash. Get him some confidence and hopefully Buffalo gets a big lead and does not have to worry about it. 

 

 

I completely see what you’re saying it’s been nice to see players like Bernard, Rosseau, Benford and a few others step up.    The only silver lining is that it gives new players some important reps.  
 

The problem is that 2023 is likely the final shot that the “core” Bills players will have to win it all.  I see a scenario where the Bills could be without familiar faces like Gabe, AJ, Poyer, Hyde, and the DL depth (Shaq, Phillips, Poona).  Plus we don’t know how Tre White will bounce back from his second major injury. 
 

The team was built to compete for a SB in 2023, and these injuries make it so much harder, but we have to have hope that Josh and the offense can overcome. 

 

[muppy]

3 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

I completely see what you’re saying it’s been nice to see players like Bernard, Rosseau, Benford and a few others step up.    The only silver lining is that it gives new players some important reps.  
 

The problem is that 2023 is likely the final shot that the “core” Bills players will have to win it all.  I see a scenario where the Bills could be without familiar faces like Gabe, AJ, Poyer, Hyde, and the DL depth (Shaq, Phillips, Poona).  Plus we don’t know how Tre White will bounce back from his second major injury. 
 

The team was built to compete for a SB in 2023, and these injuries make it so much harder, but we have to have hope that Josh and the offense can overcome. 

 

great thoughtfful answer.with a much more positive spin than mine. I agree with all of this

[TheyCallMeAndy]

7 minutes ago, Beast said:

The front 4 is really going to have to get after it the rest of the season to get to where we want to be.

Thankfully, the front 4 isn’t just 4 who have been playing at an incredible level 

[MJS]

45 minutes ago, BuffaloBaumer said:

 Lastly, Elam cannot possibly be this bad, he just can't. They threw him into a no win situation and that was a bad coaching decision. I would start him again vs the Giants and put him on a very short leash. Get him some confidence and hopefully Buffalo gets a big lead and does not have to worry about it. 

It wasn't a bad coaching decision. Throw him to the wolves and let him scratch and claw his way to victory.

 

You don't get babysat in the NFL. You are facing supreme talents week in and week out. Either you rise up to the challenge, or you don't.

 

Leadership and coaching is key. They have to build him up, show confidence in him, and help him move on from mistakes, all while reinforcing technique and scheme.

 

Elam is talented. He can do it. Don't give him a short leash. Give him a LONG leash. Get him experience now so that he can be proficient later in the year and in the playoffs.

6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

how does Joe Marino know what’s correctable with Elam? Hadn’t the staff been trying to correct him?  I don’t get this

Do you think the staff think he is hopeless and a lost cause? I highly doubt it.

[Eastport bills]

54 minutes ago, BuffaloBaumer said:

The more and more I am listening to the experts, the more our depth is looking like they just might be ok in the end. Whether that is this year, or next year, the future looks pretty darn bright for a youth movement. With Rousseau out, and Von barely playing, AJ stepped into the spotlight bigtime. THis Jonathan kid is also getting really good reviews and could end up being a steal on the edge. 

 

The loss of Jones is a massive one in every way but let's see what Ford can do on the run stuffing game. Ed Oliver has broken through and the Oline is better than we thought when the season began. As long as Benford can come back, and there are no more injuries at that position, the pass rush should offset the hit the secondary took. 

 

It will be interesting to see how Bernard does without Milano so that is a big question mark. Can Dodson step up into a major role? Hopefully Von can get back to 100% by the time the playoffs start and if that happens, the defense should be just fine. If Buffalo has to take a wild card and go on the road for a game, so be it. I think they are still taking the division and the next 3 games will be perfect to get the newbies settled. 

 

Lastly, Elam cannot possibly be this bad, he just can't. They threw him into a no win situation and that was a bad coaching decision. I would start him again vs the Giants and put him on a very short leash. Get him some confidence and hopefully Buffalo gets a big lead and does not have to worry about it. 

 

 

Uplifting optimistic post, we need it about now.

[SCBills]

11 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

I completely see what you’re saying it’s been nice to see players like Bernard, Rosseau, Benford and a few others step up.    The only silver lining is that it gives new players some important reps.  
 

The problem is that 2023 is likely the final shot that the “core” Bills players will have to win it all.  I see a scenario where the Bills could be without familiar faces like Gabe, AJ, Poyer, Hyde, and the DL depth (Shaq, Phillips, Poona).  Plus we don’t know how Tre White will bounce back from his second major injury. 
 

The team was built to compete for a SB in 2023, and these injuries make it so much harder, but we have to have hope that Josh and the offense can overcome. 

 

 

The Offense next year returns, basically, the entire OL plus the depth.. Josh Allen.. Diggs, Cook, Knox, Kincaid, Shakir & Harty.  They'll really only need a WR2, and that can be an instant impact player if taken early in the draft.  

 

The Defense.. honestly.. it's time.  It's probably past time, to move on from the OG's.  Poyer and Hyde are fine.  Not great, not bad, they are fine.  This should be their last year here.  Tre White.. I'm sorry, but the 6M we can save by cutting him should go towards extending Epenesa.  

 

The upcoming Draft, on a quick way too early glance, looks to be one that should go WR early and then heavy Defense.  

 

I'm not convinced getting younger on Defense next year won't make us better by the end of next season. 

 

I hope we win it all for Hyde, Po, Gabe & White this season.. but they've run their course here.   Gabe, I can hear an argument to keep him, but not at the expense of AJE.  

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by SCBills

[TheyCallMeAndy]

5 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

I completely see what you’re saying it’s been nice to see players like Bernard, Rosseau, Benford and a few others step up.    The only silver lining is that it gives new players some important reps.  
 

The problem is that 2023 is likely the final shot that the “core” Bills players will have to win it all.  I see a scenario where the Bills could be without familiar faces like Gabe, AJ, Poyer, Hyde, and the DL depth (Shaq, Phillips, Poona).  Plus we don’t know how Tre White will bounce back from his second major injury. 
 

The team was built to compete for a SB in 2023, and these injuries make it so much harder, but we have to have hope that Josh and the offense can overcome. 

 

I think it may be a very safe assumption that a combination of White, Hyde, and Poyer will not be back next year. If the first 5 games are an indication, Poyer and White are likely.

The “core” of the defense won’t be gone, because it has already changed. The new core is being led by Oliver, Groot, and Milano. Hyde is still in the group, and every week it looks more likely that Bernard and Epenesa will also be joining.

 

 

 

 

[whorlnut]

It’s time for people to accept that Elam CAN be “that bad”. He had a chance to prove himself and he sucked. 

[C.Biscuit97]

It wasn’t perfect but I’m proud of the defense. Had every reason to quit and throw in the towel, but they battled. Lawrence was pretty good too. Definitely one of the few positives from the game. 

[NI Bills Fan]

A lot of us saw enough in Elam to want him to start the season opposite White.  Yes he had a poor showing on Sunday, but let's evaluate him over a bigger sample size and remember some of the upside he showed last season.

 

With regards losing Daquan Jones, that is a real blow given his start to the season.  However as I read someone else point earlier... If Poona Ford wasn't on our roster and Beane signed him today as a replacement, we'd be a lot more positive than we are currently.

 

Let's see how it goes.  At least we have a few softer games coming up to bring the replacements up to speed.

 

Regarding linebacker...Hopefully Dorian Williams can make the improvements necessary with more live reps, because I don't think Dodson is it.

 

Go Bills!  Let's get to London out of the system by toppling the Giants.

 

Side note... I hate the bad taste this London had left us with... It's the only game I've ever been to and can't even rewatch it!  Great weekend though and met some great UK fans and folk from Buffalo.

Edited October 10, 2023 by NI Bills Fan

[ngbills]

Our depth is at DE/DT/S. Our biggest injuries are at CB, LB, DT...so 1 out of 3 aint bad I guess. We need a CB and LB. Based on last week Elam is not going to cut it. Surtain makes too much sense if you can get him for a 1 year rental and does not cost much. Maybe you can get Tre to restrux his deal and you can then afford Surtain with Tre money. At LB based on the McD comments he was not happy with Dotson or Williams, so we could usde help there as well. 

 

EDIT - Surtain is actually under contract for 2024 too. Even better, there is your Tre White replacement. His new contrcat can start when Tre is rolling off the books. 

Edited October 10, 2023 by ngbills

[BillMafia716ix]

The Milano loss is huge. I think will be fine up front AJ is playing well. Von reps will increase. Poona Ford was a decent player in Seattle so I think he can fill the void left by Jones. Great Dline play will help the secondary. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

Losing Milano was a massive blow to this defense. I want to be optimistic, but it’s tough

[DrDawkinstein]

47 minutes ago, stevestojan said:

All bull#### aside, I reallllly want to agree with the part that “Elam cannot possibly be this bad.” 
 

I mean there are draft busts, but at the corner position you need speed and ball awareness. Seems like those are fairly (in the grand scheme) easy to identify how they would translate from college to pro. I’m not saying everyone will be the next Rod Woodson, but my god, he literally looks like he played the position in JV and he’s our 11th option at his position; playing emergency CB. 
 

I’d argue “maybe he’s been hurt and the team is hiding it” but no. 
 

Maybe it’s the NFL version of the yips? But those generally come after you’ve done anything really well. 
 

I can’t think of a worse first round pick right now. Williams? Losman maybe? 

 

He wasnt nearly this bad last year, as a rookie. I can't believe he'd somehow regress this early in his career.

 

I'd say the worst 1st was Maybin.

[ngbills]

Broncos "open for business"

 

WR Courtland Sutton

OL Garrett Bolles

WR Jerry Jeudy

S Justin Simmons

DT D.J. Jones

DE Frank Clark

CB Patrick Surtain

[Marcus Aurelius]

And I do hope you are right 

[KDIGGZ]

Elam is terrible. He got used to using his hands and grabbing people and that's a flag in the NFL so now he's having trouble finding the receiver with his eyes instead of his hands. He has no "feel" for the game without feeling!

[Buffalo03]

I read the headline thinking Milano and DaQuon would only miss 8 weeks. Damn you

[Success]

Imagine IF Milano could make it back by the playoffs (I know it's the longest of longshots).  Having Williams get all of the experience he's likely about to get in the next few months will serve the team really well and make our depth at that position that much stronger.

 

[NickelCity]

Getting to see youth might be an upside if this team wasn't firmly in a trophy chase. Make no mistake if they don't get a lombardi this year we'll hear all the savage takes. 

 

Losing a pro bowl player from every level of the defense significantly diminishes our chances in the playoffs imo. 

[ALLinALLEN]

To play devils advocate....

 

Epenesa is on the last year of his deal - so needs paid (if we can even afford to keep him).

 

Gabe Davis will need (and get by someone) paid....

 

Hyde/Poyer are about to age out and we have NO respectable replacements for them (Hamlin does not cut it).

 

Knox is wasting a TON of money from the TE spot.

 

And our last two first round picks barely contribute (I know Kincaid deserves more time and usage but still).

 

 

[The Firebaugh Kid]

The only silver lining I can see is if we get one or both back for the playoffs. 

[Charles Romes]

McD sees defensive prospects like few others. Milano might have been out of the league with his measurable rather than an all-pro if he did not wind up with McD.  Also, Poyer, Hyde, Benford, Bernard, Johnson, Jackson, etc. The team needed to get younger, cheaper, and less injury-prone. I would like to see McD use this as an opportunity to develop as many young prospects as possible, raiding other practice squads for players he has been tracking.  

Edited October 10, 2023 by Charles Romes

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, stevestojan said:

All bull#### aside, I reallllly want to agree with the part that “Elam cannot possibly be this bad.” 
 

I mean there are draft busts, but at the corner position you need speed and ball awareness. Seems like those are fairly (in the grand scheme) easy to identify how they would translate from college to pro. I’m not saying everyone will be the next Rod Woodson, but my god, he literally looks like he played the position in JV and he’s our 11th option at his position; playing emergency CB. 
 

I’d argue “maybe he’s been hurt and the team is hiding it” but no. 
 

Maybe it’s the NFL version of the yips? But those generally come after you’ve done anything really well. 
 

I can’t think of a worse first round pick right now. Williams? Losman maybe? 

 

Erik Flowers was selected in the first round (26th overall) of the 2000 NFL Draft.

 

1 hour ago, Process said:

We still have one of the best d lines in the league. 

 

The secondary is what concerns me. 

 

Hyde and Poyer are slow and washed up. That gets masked with a dominant front 7. I'm not sure we have that anymore.

 

And we have ZERO CB depth. As of right now we are one injury away (Benford) from having Micah Hyde covering a teams best WR on the most critical play of the game. 

\

Funny that in previous years Hyde and Poyer were the ones who was masking other players' performance previous years.