Hines out for the year

[Chandler#81]

3 hours ago, 17islongenough said:

 

Hit the road Mr. Blowjangles. Wrong site for you. 😡
 

As for Nyheim, this is terrible news! There goes our return game.🤬

[damj]

1 hour ago, wppete said:

So how does the CAP work with injuries? If he is out for the whole season does that free up his $$$ on the salary cap? 

They have to cut him

[SWATeam]

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

It was a trade for a KR/PR. 

Fans got all excited like we'd signed our own budget Christian McCaffery, but KR/PR was an obvious gap at the time of the Hines trade.

Hines had been like a top 5 pass catching RB since 2018.  He was more than just a returner.  

[MasterStrategist]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

It was a trade for a KR/PR. 

Fans got all excited like we'd signed our own budget Christian McCaffery, but KR/PR was an obvious gap at the time of the Hines trade.

Agree, but I think Beane envisioned using him more often (per his comments) and the resources used.

 

It's not a big strike against Beane, just curious is all.  I think Dorsey had too much on his plate finding ways to get all the playmakers involved, plus Josh' injury.

 

Either way, I think Mims can be a useful RB and not nearly as dynamic in the return game but OK as a kick returner.  Harty at PR, and/or Shakir.

[Chandler#81]

1 hour ago, Clyde Smith said:

Probably cause their field turf is trash. That's where we lost Tre and Von.

Tre was hurt at KC

[dave mcbride]

31 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Are these total fumbles? Or fumbles lost?….either way confirms what I said, Harty is a McKenzie clone(and actually worse) in the return game. Not good. 

Total fumbles -- both those lost and those recovered. Once a fumble occurs, it is essentially a crapshoot -- close to a 50/50 flip of the coin -- with regard to who recovers.

Just now, Chandler#81 said:

Tre was hurt at KC

No, he was hurt in New Orleans on Thanksgiving night.

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, MasterStrategist said:

Agree, but I think Beane envisioned using him more often (per his comments) and the resources used.

 

It's not a big strike against Beane, just curious is all.  I think Dorsey had too much on his plate finding ways to get all the playmakers involved, plus Josh' injury.

 

Either way, I think Mims can be a useful RB and not nearly as dynamic in the return game but OK as a kick returner.  Harty at PR, and/or Shakir.

Yea, in fairness, if Allen’s injury truly limited his ability/accuracy to throw short … that would clearly affect the RB passing game. 
 

Im just to the point where I want a defined offense with punch, counter punch and an effective jab.  
 

We have way too many options, and outside Diggs, none of them elite/game-breaking… yet. 
 

Figure out the run scheme.. stop being game specific.  It’s ridiculous. 
 

Pass catching RB’s, multiple TE’s.. ok…

 

How about we just have solid RB play and focus on making sure our true investments at TE pay off this year?  There’s our punch (Diggs/Davis) counter punch (Knox/Kincaid) and a power run game with Cook/Harris/Murray & improved OL (effective jab) 

 

I never needed to see how we integrate yet another random player into the offense with Hines. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

9 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

It was a trade for a KR/PR. 

Fans got all excited like we'd signed our own budget Christian McCaffery, but KR/PR was an obvious gap at the time of the Hines trade.

I agree with what you're saying about the gap in KR. However listening to Beane after the trade would indicate that he viewed the move as more than that.

 

Have to remember at the time of the trade they were still a bit slow bringing Cook along. My opinion is that he was brought in to replace Cook's snaps late in the season had Cook not stepped it up and showed he could progress. And to his credit he did.

[Irv]

That's it.  Now we really need to sign Hopkins.  

[damj]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Anyone know if the Bills had interest in JD McKissic? I wonder if the Bills would ever try to sign him.

No

 

Fool me once, shame on you

Fool me twice, shame on me

[TheBrownBear]

Ah man, that really sucks for Hines.  Great returner and seems like a good dude.  Seems to set up Harty and Cook for more defined roles as returners (Harty) and pass catchers (Cook).  And while you never want to lose a guy to a season ending injury, before training camp even begins, is probably the best scenario since you have max time to adjust to the loss.

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, MWK said:

 

You clearly don’t know that the kickoff rules changed to make it much less likely a return will happen

 

 

Let's not kid ourselves that we know for sure how this will turn out. It could indeed work out that way. Or it could end up being maybe 20% less returns, and a 20% increase in yards per return becauses teams haven't stocked the kickoff defenses well, thinking they wouldn't need them.

 

We just don't know yet. 

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

People in this thread are saying this, but it's not quite what the stats record.

Can you explain?

Now we know that all of Harty's fumbles/muffs came on ST plays, we can do the math: 9 fumbles on 193 touches (152 returns plus 41 fair catches: https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/punt-return-faircatches?season_id=20). That's a 4.7 percent fumble rate, which is awfully high. It basically works to a fumble on a special teams play ever couple of games (assuming 4-5 kickoff opportunities and 5 or punt return opportunities). 

Edited July 24, 2023 by dave mcbride

[RiotAct]

2 hours ago, T&C said:

He will.

Sal Capaccio 🏈
@SalSports
Other than the $340K in game-roster bonuses, Hines $3.5M cap hit will still count for 2023. So still looking at $3.16M.

of course it will.

[loyal2dagame]

Good thing we still have a threat at running back named Allen.

[NewEra]

42 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I'm with you.  McKenzie always was a problem back there.   Give me Hyde fair catching every ball and put the offense on the field.  Actually, I don't want to risk him back there.  For my money, right now, it's Shakir with very strict instructions.  

👍🏻 

 

I was kidding about Hyde…. But it seems like Harty and Shakir are the only real options atm.  
 

espn depth chart currently says Shakir on punts and Cook on kicks. 

[ndirish1978]

With the new kickoff rules everyone should just be fair catching every single play anyway

[TheElectricCompany72]

So is the AJ Dillon rumor gonna become a reality now?

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Yes, but hardly the impact that you implied in your original point. $1.5M in dead cap these days is equivalent to buying an extra can of tuna fish at the store and blaming that on the reason your grocery bill is $80 more.

 

I did not agree with the restructure, but I am just a guy on the internet, now it costs you more than the 1.5M since he is injured....actually might depend on his contract language about things like jet skiiing.  ANyway, 1.5M dead cap for a backup to the backup running back is excessive IMO.

[Scott7975]

That sucks.  He was good on returns.

[RyanC883]

3 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

 

 

No. Hines was slotted as a KR/likely backup RB to James Cook. The Bills may be in the RB market for a guy that can slot in there but logically Delvin:

 

-Adds nothing to the return game

-Is facing a legal battle over potential domestic violence

-History of shoulder injuries

-Reportedly has an offer on the table from the Vikings for around $7M which Buffalo would have to beat

 

I see Beane looking for a guy that can add to ST because that was likely the role Hines was going to fill. Would not shock me if this is the opening that brings back Taiwan Jones.

 

 

we can never rid ourselves of Jones!

 

Hines was great because he is a skillset backup for Cook and great ST player.  I’d be looking for a Cook type backup first (perhaps hard to find) then a kickoff returner.  Or perhaps Jones actually gets played as a RB this year?

12 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany72 said:

So is the AJ Dillon rumor gonna become a reality now?

 

was an odd rumor when it came out, but now…

[Irv]

This is not that big of a deal with the new fair catch on kick-off rule.  May have gotten cut anyway. Hope the injury is not as bad as it sounds.  

[Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD]

I just hope for his sake that it's not a career ending injury. It's one thing to tear an ACL, but to have your knee smashed up between two pieces of machinery probably means a messy wound and his knee might never be 100%.

[Royale with Cheese]

This is why I hate this time of the year.  I hold my breath every alert that comes in.

[JerseyBills]

**** 🤦

 

Man I was hoping for a big year from him as a chess piece.  Dude is a straight playmaker. 

 

Harty needs to step up in the KR role. Damn shame, he had the play of the year and consistently gave us great field position.  

 

He'll likely be cut next year. Dead cap is only 500k next year

43 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Now we know that all of Harty's fumbles/muffs came on ST plays, we can do the math: 9 fumbles on 193 touches (152 returns plus 41 fair catches: https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/punt-return-faircatches?season_id=20). That's a 4.7 percent fumble rate, which is awfully high. It basically works to a fumble on a special teams play ever couple of games (assuming 4-5 kickoff opportunities and 5 or punt return opportunities). 

Interesting.  Considering he was a ST all pro

[dollars 2 donuts]

FIRST PRESEASON GAME IN LESS THAN THREE WEEKS, LET'S GO BUFF...wait, what?

 

Ok...but...it's...we...we don't even have vets in yet.

 

We lost a lot guys over the last couple of years and we're already down a guy and he's done for the year?!

 

Thaaaat's...that...is 

 

just

 

not 

 

riiiiightt.

 

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by dollars 2 donuts

[BuffaloBillyG]

30 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

 

I did not agree with the restructure, but I am just a guy on the internet, now it costs you more than the 1.5M since he is injured....actually might depend on his contract language about things like jet skiiing.  ANyway, 1.5M dead cap for a backup to the backup running back is excessive IMO.

And the restructuring is definitely an "agree to disagree" topic. At the time it made some sense as it still secured a guy with speed and talent as a return man (restructure was before rule change) in addition to depth at the RB position. We also do not know what if any role they had planned for him. In addition to keeping him at the reduced rate the move created a small chunk of cap space. The only way it would cost the Bills more than what they already owed is if he exceeded his incentives which (unless they are tied to amount of times hit on a jet ski) he will not.  If they place him on the IR they will still save more than they would have had they not reworked his deal at all.

 

In hindsight, sure it would now cost a small amount to move on. Can't predict a freak jet ski accident, though. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

How do you tear your acl sitting on a jet ski?

 

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Nephilim17]

Do most contracts remain valid for non-football injuries? 

 

My total guess would be many are not if it involves activities outside of day-to-day living. I would hope that if a player gets injured outside of football and if the activity was not a "normal" activity and had any element of risk the team would not be paying the salary — then it should be a case for insurance and/or a lawsuit.

 

Don't get me wrong: I think HInes should make his money this year; I just don't want it to count against the Bills cap. And I do wish the guy a full and speedy recover and hope he can get another decent NFL contract before he retires.

[goldenboy81]

Tough break for him,sucks for him. Hopefully it's the biggest injury of this upcoming season.

[Success]

I just feel bad for HInes.  This doesn't hurt the team in any significant way. I agree w/ a few others that Hines was probably on the fringe of the roster as it is.

[ngbills]

Hines is a luxury type player. You have cap room then add him to your room. If your tight on cap space the money can be better spent, unless he is will to take less. Well they gave gave him way more money than I would have and no it comes back to bite us. TEN only had $3M more in cap space than us and was able to fit Hopkins in. Assuming no Hines the Bills would have been in the same spot as them to afford the deal. 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

I agree, yeah, I see 1 or 2 jet skis riding for fun, but a lot of time there is a pack of them, everyone is drinking, and there's a lot of horsing around (and also accidents due to inexperience + alcohol)

 

Doesn't mean he wasn't sitting on his own stationary Jetski, as reported.  The "minding his own business" may or may not be true, but was that said?

He was gasing up his jetski when some idiot crashed into him.

[HOUSE]

I am waiting to steal the first running back placed on the Giants Practice squad 

I don't care if the guy is 40, take more vitamins 

[Simon Says]

4 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Terrible for Hines, speedy recovery to him

 

Does this mean we now get the other Cook? 

One doesn't equal the other. Cook wouldn't be replacing Hines, the primary returner only occasionally getting offensive reps.

Bills will likely replace Hines with a low cost back that can also return kicks,  like Darynton Evans,Jaret Patterson.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

2 hours ago, Since1981 said:

I feel so bad for him. Just sitting there and some dumb ass rams into him. 

Poor guy.

[DallasBillsFan1]

Sign COOK and SAQUAN!

[BuffaloBillyG]

I liked Evans coming out a bit. But this seems to be the level of RB they Bills will target.

 

Interesting that Hill (4.51 40) and Smith (4.59) seem to be more on the plodding back side 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by BuffaloBillyG

[Simon Says]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

We don't have a returner. 

Harty , Cook and Shakir can return kicks

[Jay_Fixit]

42 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

This is why I hate this time of the year.  I hold my breath every alert that comes in.

And we hold our breath because you refuse to wear socks.