Josh Allen is number 1

[Rocky Landing]

4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

 

This is a disturbing little stat, but there does seem to be some context missing. The Bills have a much better three-year record than the other three. Does this stat include playoff games? And how many of these games were wins, or losses? 

 

 

 

[Johnnycage46]

4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

 

 

I'd still rather have the turnovers with his positive production any day (obviously want to cut down on turnovers, but I think it's all part of it with him).

[Rigotz]

Cut him

[The Wiz]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

This is a much more striking and interesting stat then the one to kick off this thread.  It's just another example of Allen being a unicorn when it comes to judging him by using conventional stats.  The guy is still blowing up all of mathematics!

 

And I would argue that the offensive talent (skill players & O line) on these three teams is better then the Bills. 

Someone at NFL Live still needed to be right about Allen being a bad QB/draft pick.  Wonder if they are friends with Ramsey.

Edited May 25, 2023 by The Wiz

[BillsfaninSB]

 But is he NFL ready?   Get Rosen in camp ASAP. 

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

This board ......

[Kmart128]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

That's a bad stat, however, be good to know if it means games that were 1 score at the time of the turnover or 1 score games at the end?

Could be a good stat. Could show that even if he makes some mistakes he helps keep the team in it...

[BigAl2526]

Definitely an area to focus on if he wants to improve his game.

[Buffalo Super Fan]

4 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Judas Priest, this crap gets old.  What has the Bills regular season and playoff record been the last 3 seasons:

 

Regular season = 37 - 12

 

Playoffs = 4 - 3

 

Show me a stat that actually matters not one that can be used as a backdoor jab at Allen.

 

 

 

 

Josh Allen is getting the label as not a big game player in the NFL playoffs. As a Buffalo Bills fan I think it’s early to label Josh Allen with that yet. I put more of the blame on Bills head coach Sean McDermott and Bills owner Terry Pegula neither one can run a lemonade stand both incompetent leaders that are lacking. Again I want to be wrong and admit on this board I was way wrong unfortunately I am not wrong which sucks as a Bills fan. Big weekend Buffalo sports fans the 2022-23 Buffalo Bandits can be NLL Champions Cup world champions by Monday night if all goes well in my opinion. Go Bandits! Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[Billy Claude]

Have we reached some alternative reality here?   Having a lot of turnovers is not a "good" stat.  No one accused Aaron Rogers of playing it safe when he had 7 and 4 turnovers in 2020 and 2021. This is not a single data point, Allen also led the league in turnovers last year. Nor was it only when the Bills were losing, it is not a good idea to throw it up for grabs when your team is up  17 - 0 in a playoff game.

 

Allen is a great QB but there's a lot of evidence that he was very sloppy with the ball last year.  There was plenty of bad decision making.  Hopefully much of it was due to the UCL injury, rookie OC, and bad o-line but a lot of it is on him and he has to clean this up. 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Billy Claude

[BillMafia716ix]

If he continues to play his reckless style of ball we aren’t going anywhere. Love Josh but now it’s time to get it done

Edited May 25, 2023 by BillMafia716ix

[LABILLBACKER]

5 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Now imagine how many points we would score if he cut down on that even by 15 or 20%?

 

We would literally be unstoppable.

This is hardly a newsflash to Josh.  I'm sure he’s well aware he’s been a little reckless on certain plays and he's hinted in several interviews that it's time to tone it down some.  Usually when you're basically told to " do it all" you take risks. I blame the coaches and lack of support (OL, WR2, run game) as much as Josh.  This is not all on him.

[Alphadawg7]

6 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

 

 

Did you purposefully leave out the next graphic that went along with this tweet that Josh has a winning record with an almost .600 win % in those very same 1 score games the past 3 years?

[mjt328]

Josh Allen's biggest weakness has always been trying to do too much when the team around him isn't performing.

-  It was the primary reason his stats weren't great in college (everyone else on Wyoming was terrible).

-  It was an issue during his first few years in the NFL, and got national attention in his first playoff loss against the Texans.

-  Even after his breakout season, there are still stretches every year where the offense slumps and his turnovers are again a problem.

 

If defenses can successfully take Stefon Diggs out of the game with double-coverage, and then get consistent pressure up-front... that's when our QB tends to get antsy and starts putting too much on his own shoulders.

 

It's pretty clear Allen needs to have quick/check-down receivers to help avoid those situations.  Losing Cole Beasley was huge last year, and the impact cannot be overestimated.  Hopefully Dalton Kincaid and Deonte Harty can be the solution.  If the O-Line plays better this season, that would also be a tremendous help.

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

6 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

 

 

Josh Allen has 38 total INT's over the last 3 full seasons with 133 touchdowns.  This is a cherry picked stat to make him look controversial.  And the 38 turnovers include his fumbles.

 

Bottom line, the only thing this is evident to is that in the last 3 years Josh Allen and the Bills have played in 20 games that ended in 1 score where Allen was often called upon to be Superman and carry the team both rushing and throwing.  

 

Plus, Josh Allen has a winning record close to .600% over those 20 games and all without a quality OL, consistent run game, and a change at OC.  And several of the 1 score losses the defense didn't get the job done once Allen gave them a lead.  

 

So personally...just loathe these cherry picked stats to try and paint a negative narrative while ignoring to over whelming positives.  Josh Allen himself will tell anyone he has to clean the turnovers up, but there is a lot more good than bad with Allen and he is as good as anyone in the league.  

Edited May 25, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[Heitz]

^ Great, now Alpha-bot is glitching out...   

[CincyBillsFan]

53 minutes ago, I am leaving for good said:

Josh Allen is getting the label as not a big game player in the NFL playoffs. As a Buffalo Bills fan I think it’s early to label Josh Allen with that yet. I put more of the blame on Bills head coach Sean McDermott and Bills owner Terry Pegula neither one can run a lemonade stand both incompetent leaders that are lacking. Again I want to be wrong and admit on this board I was way wrong unfortunately I am not wrong which sucks as a Bills fan. Big weekend Buffalo sports fans the 2022-23 Buffalo Bandits can be NLL Champions Cup world champions by Monday night if all goes well in my opinion. Go Bandits! Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Well anyone giving Allen that label after his 2021 playoff performances is an idiot.

 

 

[78thealltimegreat]

6 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Now imagine how many points we would score if he cut down on that even by 15 or 20%?

 

We would literally be unstoppable.

We need to trade him to the 49ers and get a game manager who doesn’t turn the ball over 

[Nextmanup]

6 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Now imagine how many points we would score if he cut down on that even by 15 or 20%?

 

We would literally be unstoppable.

That's like saying if humans had wings, we would all fly high.

 

 

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, I am leaving for good said:

Josh Allen is getting the label as not a big game player in the NFL playoffs. As a Buffalo Bills fan I think it’s early to label Josh Allen with that yet. I put more of the blame on Bills head coach Sean McDermott and Bills owner Terry Pegula neither one can run a lemonade stand both incompetent leaders that are lacking. Again I want to be wrong and admit on this board I was way wrong unfortunately I am not wrong which sucks as a Bills fan. Big weekend Buffalo sports fans the 2022-23 Buffalo Bandits can be NLL Champions Cup world champions by Monday night if all goes well in my opinion. Go Bandits! Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

 

Pretty ridiculous since going into last year's playoffs he had the highest QB Rating of all time in the postseason.

[K-9]

Useless stat with ZERO context. 

[HaldimandBills]

This has less to do with Josh and more to do with Beanes inability to provide Josh with decent targets, run game, and a O line.

 

It wasn't a shock we could easily move the ball between the 20 yard lines and then stalled in the redzone. 

 

We had no power run game. Our interior oline was pathetic. Teams cheated like mad to take away Josh scrambling ability. Diggs was the only receiver who could beat a zone defense in the redzone unless Davis won a jump ball. Not all that shocking Allen has thrown so many INT. 

 

Maybe surrounded him with better talent so he isn't scrambling for his life having to make plays on the fly. Give us better short yardage RB so linebackers have to respect the run and not cheat and chase down Josh. Give him someone besides Digg who can actually get open in the Red Zone. 

 

 

[HaldimandBills]

6 hours ago, Airseven said:

No other upper echelon QB panics and presses quite like Allen. His implosion factor is part of the reason why, despite obvious physical ability, he hasn’t achieved anything.

 

What a ridiculously bad take. Must be nice to be a Mahomes and have competent linemen play and an all time offensive master as your head coach drawing up plays to mess with defenses. 

 

Or Burrow and Hill with their glut of offensive weapons. 

 

Nope Allen has a worse oline than all three of those teams and has had basically Diggs vs. those QBs having stacked offensive rosters. 

 

Meanwhile Allen and Diggs know there was no one competent so it was all on them. Mckenzie was our 3rd best receiver last season for f sakes. How is that possible for a Superbowl contender?

[stevestojan]

Like I’ve been saying, we got the wrong Josh. 
 

Can’t wait til Beane gets us an actual QB. 
 

 

[90sBills]

7 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Absolutely.  That's his only weakness.  Not taking easy yards with check downs, if he incorporates that in his game,  he'll be unstoppable 

 

It kills me seeing Mahomes do this multiple times a game for 100+ yards

It’s probably not as easy as Mahomes makes it look. Otherwise every qb would be doing it with much better success. 

[boater]

So you got some attention to yourself for senseless Allen bashing. Does it feel good?

 

[PBF81]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

That's a bad stat, however, be good to know if it means games that were 1 score at the time of the turnover or 1 score games at the end?

 

Agreed.  There should be some kind of Big-Play to Turnover ratio, for which I'm pretty sure he'd rank near the top.  Speculation on my part, but he makes so many big plays that it's easy to overlook a TO here or there, particularly when they're not key.  

 

Also, I'm curious how many of those TOs have been in wins vs. losses.  There's more to look at there.  Maybe I'll look it up.  

 

 

1 hour ago, HaldimandBills said:

This has less to do with Josh and more to do with Beanes inability to provide Josh with decent targets, run game, and a O line.

 

It wasn't a shock we could easily move the ball between the 20 yard lines and then stalled in the redzone. 

 

We had no power run game. Our interior oline was pathetic. Teams cheated like mad to take away Josh scrambling ability. Diggs was the only receiver who could beat a zone defense in the redzone unless Davis won a jump ball. Not all that shocking Allen has thrown so many INT. 

 

Maybe surrounded him with better talent so he isn't scrambling for his life having to make plays on the fly. Give us better short yardage RB so linebackers have to respect the run and not cheat and chase down Josh. Give him someone besides Digg who can actually get open in the Red Zone. 

 

To add to your implication, it's the lack of offensive balance due to both our inability (against good Ds) and unwillingness (against bad ones) to run the ball.  

 

 

[PBF81]

8 hours ago, eball said:

Talk about using a completely out-of-context stat to try and make a point.  🙄

 

In order to evaluate this statistic we need so much more information.  Suffice it to say that every QB's job is to limit turnovers, and Josh is no different.

 

Agreed.

 

FWIW, three of those 36 were in the Vikes game this past season.  1 was in that @ Miami game which no one can fault any of our players for not playing well.  2 more both INTs in our loss to the Jets this past season.  

 

He had one in our win @KC.  He had one in our win vs. Miami.  One each in our wins @ Balitmore and @ Detroit, and two in our blowout win @ Chicago.  He had another 3 in our playoff win vs. Miami.  

 

He's also the reason we won those games.  That's 15 of 'em.  We're 6-3 in those games because of him.  

 

 

[Billy Claude]

10 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Now imagine how many points we would score if he cut down on that even by 15 or 20%?

 

We would literally be unstoppable.

 

3 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

That's like saying if humans had wings, we would all fly high.

 

 

 

 

I don't get this analogy at all.  Why can't Allen reduce his turnovers by 15 or 20%?    In fact, I would be very disappointed if he only reduces his turnovers by 20% this coming season.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------

 

There's a lot of straw man arguments in this thread.   No one is arguing that the high number of turnovers is all Allen's fault, however, many people seem to imply that none of it is Allen's fault (or maybe begrudgingly, a very insignificant amount).  Almost no one is saying that Allen is not a top quarterback.

 

However, when you are worst in the league at something there is plenty of fault to spread around and a significant amount of that has to go to the guy making the final decision on whether and where to throw the ball.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Billy Claude

[newcam2012]

9 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

 

No doubt Allen takes chances. That's what happens when you are asked to play Superman and have a mediocre running game and Oline. Five years and counting. 

 

Turnovers are what keeps Allen behind Mahomes and Burrow. 

1 hour ago, HaldimandBills said:

This has less to do with Josh and more to do with Beanes inability to provide Josh with decent targets, run game, and a O line.

 

It wasn't a shock we could easily move the ball between the 20 yard lines and then stalled in the redzone. 

 

We had no power run game. Our interior oline was pathetic. Teams cheated like mad to take away Josh scrambling ability. Diggs was the only receiver who could beat a zone defense in the redzone unless Davis won a jump ball. Not all that shocking Allen has thrown so many INT. 

 

Maybe surrounded him with better talent so he isn't scrambling for his life having to make plays on the fly. Give us better short yardage RB so linebackers have to respect the run and not cheat and chase down Josh. Give him someone besides Digg who can actually get open in the Red Zone. 

 

 

Well said!

24 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

It’s probably not as easy as Mahomes makes it look. Otherwise every qb would be doing it with much better success. 

Mahomes is the class of the QBs. He is in a league of his own. I wouldn't be surprised if he comes close to Brady's record. 

[HappyDays]

9 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

It kills me seeing Mahomes do this multiple times a game for 100+ yards

 

It's funny because Mahomes had the same problem in his 5th season that Allen just had in his 5th season. He ignored too many open short throws in favor of deep throws he had no business throwing. He got a little lazy reading the defense. To quote an earlier poster/troll, that "implosion factor" directly led to him single handedly choking away the AFCCG to Cincy last year.

 

And then the Chiefs made a bunch of changes. They traded away their deep threat in Tyreek Hill. They redesigned the offense to incorporate more short passing and more running. Mahomes took the philosophy change to heart, throwing for the lowest intended air yards per attempt of his career. Just like that he's back to MVP level.

 

I expect Allen and the Bills offense to undergo a similar change this year. Adding Kincaid and Torrence and Harris and Harty signals to me that they are investing heavily in players that punish defenses who drop into deep zones. I also believe Allen when he says he is more focused on football than he ever has been before. He has an unmatched ability to identify his own flaws and work to correct them. I think all of these ingredients are going to come together to create the most balanced and efficient offense of Allen's career.

 

The big asterisk of this entire post is Ken Dorsey. He certainly has every tool an OC can reasonably ask for. Now he just needs to put the rubber to the road.

 

Edited May 26, 2023 by HappyDays

[Big Turk]

3 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

No doubt Allen takes chances. That's what happens when you are asked to play Superman and have a mediocre running game and Oline. Five years and counting. 

 

Turnovers are what keeps Allen behind Mahomes and Burrow. 

Well said!

Mahomes is the class of the QBs. He is in a league of his own. I wouldn't be surprised if he comes close to Brady's record. 

 

If Burrow was asked to do what Allen is, he would have far more turnovers.

[clearwater cadet]

You can't have the boom with out an occasional bust.  If we're going to win the whole thing it not gonna be playing it safe.  We just don't have that type of luck.

[90sBills]

6 hours ago, Billy Claude said:

 

 

 

I don't get this analogy at all.  Why can't Allen reduce his turnovers by 15 or 20%?    In fact, I would be very disappointed if he only reduces his turnovers by 20% this coming season.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------

 

There's a lot of straw man arguments in this thread.   No one is arguing that the high number of turnovers is all Allen's fault, however, many people seem to imply that none of it is Allen's fault (or maybe begrudgingly, a very insignificant amount).  Almost no one is saying that Allen is not a top quarterback.

 

However, when you are worst in the league at something there is plenty of fault to spread around and a significant amount of that has to go to the guy making the final decision on whether and where to throw the ball.

 

 

 

 

You notice this too huh? Some make it seem like Dorsey drew up those interceptions. 

[Dr.Sack]

Imagine Allen cuts his turnovers 50%? 

[papazoid]

i mostly blame the O-line , then the wr's, then josh.

 

but make no mistake, the team must improve upon that stat

 

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, NUT said:

Sean McDermott's fault.

 

I mean to read some here you would believe this to be true.

[Punching Bag]

17 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

That's a bad stat, however, be good to know if it means games that were 1 score at the time of the turnover or 1 score games at the end?

 

There are damn stats, weak stats and stats which criteria are crafted to get wanted results.

 

In advanced statistics class in college professor gave us an assignment and data set.  We were told to provide set of criteria with same set of data to get three specified results.  Most could only get 1 or 2 of of wanted results but I got all three.   When asked by a student in class "What is the use of this exercise?" Professor said you may have an employer which wants certain results from testing and you will be responsible for fitting data (skewing) to expected results.

[CSBill]

McDermott is one of the worse coaches in the league. Josh is a turnover machine. Dion is way overweight. Diggs is a no-show.

 

The season is in the tank already.

 

When is the 2024 draft?

[MPL]

I mean, every single game is a "1-score" game for at least the first two drives. Most games have a point differential of 8 points or less until late in the game.