Is Edmunds decision the most difficult Beane has ever faced?

[TSOL]

I don't know man, Edmunds isn't flashy but he's a real technical player. If he leaves he will be missed. I'm not some Edmunds cheerleader here but I'm leaning towards retaining him. 

[benderbender]

9 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Should be an interesting week ahead. 

I like that someone disagreed with that. This is the content I come for. 

[Mikie2times]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Tells all you need to know? No, it really doesn't. Was Milano locked up?

 

Yet he's now an All-Pro, after they re-signed him.

 

And the idea that we shouldn't re-sign people because they haven't taken us to elite places is dumb. That would justify not re-signing anyone. By that argument we shouldn't have re-signed Allen. He hasn't taken us to elite places. It's simply not a good argument.

No Milano was not locked up and it did tell me all I needed to know on him. Which was the Bills recognized his position and role as one they were prepared to move on from. They have locked up so many players before they hit the market it's been overwhelming. You think it's a coincidence Poyer and Edmunds have not been signed? Oliver? It's not a coincidence. It's age and position. Doesn't even mean the Bills don't want to do it, it just means they were willing to let it go that far when in most instances they have not. That has to speak for something. 

 

Allen is a star QB and we have signed an overwhelming amount of foundational pieces at a time when we did not know if they would or wouldn't be the ones we really needed. Time has proven thus far we need a different combination of pieces which makes decisions on future already existing pieces a tad bit easier to swallow. This defense has not got us to where we want to be long term and Edmunds is a center piece of it. No matter how good Edmunds is in coverage he still a MLB in an offensive league and with an offseason to redevelop scheme and the right players, we very well could be better vs previous versions. We aren't going to sign a 6th rounder and ask him to be Edmunds. Well, maybe, but we shouldn't.  

[BillsFan130]

19 minutes ago, TSOL said:

I don't know man, Edmunds isn't flashy but he's a real technical player. If he leaves he will be missed. I'm not some Edmunds cheerleader here but I'm leaning towards retaining him. 

He’s the Leslie Frazier of players.

 

Good in the regular season, then gets toyed with by the great QBs in the playoffs.

 

IMO not worth retaining him because of that, but I definitely see your point 

[TSOL]

23 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

He’s the Leslie Frazier of players.

 

Good in the regular season, then gets toyed with by the great QBs in the playoffs.

 

IMO not worth retaining him because of that, but I definitely see your point 

 

 

He's not Lawrence Taylor, but he's a rock solid piece to the puzzle. We'd have to pay big  to replace him, why mess with all that? He's good.  Keep him and maybe put it on Beane to draft well and put good pieces around him. 

 

Stupid to let him go and have to replace him with a high priced free agent. 

 

[RiotAct]

10 hours ago, Riverboat Ritchie said:

Likely have to let him walk but he is only 24.  When Nader if you could do something really long term with him. 

I think Ralph Nader is a little too old to have much of an impact on the gridiron anymore…

[billieve420]

I would let Edmunds shop around and if he wants to bring offer back to team fine. Beane can consider it and move on if they are far apart on a new contract. I personally wouldn’t want to tie up that much money at the LB position anyway. Especially a finesse group that gets manhandled by more physical teams regularly. However, if it makes financial sense I am not against keeping Edmunds who is solid player.

Edited February 28, 2023 by billieve420

[ProcessTruster]

17 hours ago, HappyDays said:

I think it was already decided last year. Beane extends his guys a year early. LB is not a premium position and Edmunds even at his best does not make game changing plays. When you pay your QB, letting players like that go is a pretty easy decision.

They'll offer him Milano $$ on a 3-4 yr deal and then he'll walk.   They'll give him the opportunity to realize that this is not his last payday as he'll only be 28 when his next deal comes.    Good player but D is all about sacks, picks and negative plays.   He doesn't make any of them.   His leaving will force Frazier out of his rope a dope defense. 

[nosejob]

43 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

They'll offer him Milano $$ on a 3-4 yr deal and then he'll walk.   They'll give him the opportunity to realize that this is not his last payday as he'll only be 28 when his next deal comes.    Good player but D is all about sacks, picks and negative plays.   He doesn't make any of them.   His leaving will force Frazier out of his rope a dope defense. 

I worry about a guy that takes 5 yrs. to substantially up his play and it's a contract year. I can see him getting paid and never getting any better. I just don't think he has it from the neck up. Also I'm all for forcing a change in defensive approach.

[John from Riverside]

How much Edmonds would be missed would depend on what resources they used to put a player or players in replace of him
 

It might hurt a lot or we might not miss him at all depending on what they do

[colin]

8 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

He’s the Leslie Frazier of players.

 

Good in the regular season, then gets toyed with by the great QBs in the playoffs.

 

IMO not worth retaining him because of that, but I definitely see your point 

 

That's a pretty good analogy (metaphor?) but when he played frasier was a much more impactful player than edmunds.

 

my big issue is that we have one single player that for sure makes the guys around him better (von) or perhaps two (milano) on D, after all that investment.

 

we are way better off to follow the rams model (and what we did for diggs) and trade resources for players who will make an impact, or sign in FA, given that we keep drafting and contracting up guys who are just above average, but not impact.

[BillsFan130]

8 hours ago, TSOL said:

 

 

He's not Lawrence Taylor, but he's a rock solid piece to the puzzle. We'd have to pay big  to replace him, why mess with all that? He's good.  Keep him and maybe put it on Beane to draft well and put good pieces around him. 

 

Stupid to let him go and have to replace him with a high priced free agent. 

 

My argument is the defence sucks with him in the playoffs while he always looks lost, so what difference does it make signing him? To have better regular season stats?

 

I am not saying sign a big free agent.

 

Sign a low cost guy/draft one in the mid rounds, and spend the money/assets on the offence

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

[PrimeTime101]

13 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Davante Adams was traded last off-season after being tagged.  So it happens.  

That was a very special situation. A day after being tagged, he ASKED to be traded asap that he did not want to be part of that organization at all. Very rare

[IndyMark]

To directly answer the thread title's question, no the decision has already been made.  In fact, this will be an easy decision for Beane as he already has a number, a line in the sand, that he is willing to pay Edmunds.  If Edmunds gets more on the open market good on him. If not, he returns as a Bill.

 

It is all about the math and that makes decisions easy.

 

Now, the content of the thread and the discussion is all about alot of things, but the answer to the thread title is easy, no pun intended.  This will be one Beane's easiest decisions all off-season as it will be made for him with the numbers.

 

What, then, might be Beane's hardest decision?  For me it will be how little to take for Ed Oliver in a trade. I would love to trade Ed, for many reasons but the cap relief is huge, but what team truly would want him or want to pay more than a 5th round pick? Likely no one, in that way, trading Oliver will be the harder decision based merely on what is acceptable to have someone take him off our hands.

[Zerovoltz]

Hey!  I have some unsolicited thoughts on this!

 

I don't know enough or watch enough Bills D to make any kind of guess on Edmunds.  I would say this - While the Bills have not won the SB...you had the 13 second game in a year when you'd have had a very strong chance to win one...and then coming into this year, your team was the favorite and was playing like it until Von got hurt.  I think there is a degree of overthinking it since you dind't end up with a title (easy for me to say)  

 

I believe Josh Allen is one of the rare few that can thrive with lower cost targets etc.  IF it were me running the Bills....I'd try and put money into thing Josh Allen can't improve directly.  And of those things, I'd go:

 

1. The best O line I could put toghether.

2. Interior D line pass rushers

3. Outside pass rushers

4. Corners.

5. Safety

6. Off ball LB.

7. Skill players.  (this isn't to say they arne't important.  I just wouldn't spend collectivly, all that much.  If I had a Justin Jefferson, Jamar Chase, I'd do one big contract..otherwise...no.  Allen and a strong line and Allen will lift up what you surround him with)

 

....and I'd also invest in the best O line I could put toether.  

 

Given you've already paid Milano....I'd lean to letting Edmunds go and investing that in something more important.  .....again,  Idon't know Edmunds value to your system.  He is young and I would think his prime years are now...

 

 

[BuffaloRebound]

Frazier news probably doesn’t bode well for an Edmunds return.  

[Mat68]

No.  I think it comes down to allocation of resources.  You can not have the most expensive off ball linebacker room.  You either keep Milano or sign Edmunds and trade Milano. 

[Orlando Tim]

Edmunds to me is easy, you determine what his impact is on the defense and you offer him accordingly. If he is only worth 15 a year to us then we offer that and no more. He is simpler than many other because we have 5 years of evidence and the past 3 are pretty consistent in this system. 

[SoMAn]

I think they’ll examine weaknesses on defense, identify run support, and explore options in FA or draft and look for a LB who can cover and also be aggressive against the run. If they find that guy, they may be open to Edmunds finding greener pastures. Otherwise, they’ll either franchise him or start moving money around to pay him. 
Something that’s intriguing to me is the statement the Bills will make with whatever path they follow. They’re always supportive of their guys in public, but if they let Edmunds walk, it’s a pretty good bet they agree with some of the fan sentiment regarding Edmund’s perceived weaknesses. 

[LABILLBACKER]

15 hours ago, KzooMike said:

No Milano was not locked up and it did tell me all I needed to know on him. Which was the Bills recognized his position and role as one they were prepared to move on from. They have locked up so many players before they hit the market it's been overwhelming. You think it's a coincidence Poyer and Edmunds have not been signed? Oliver? It's not a coincidence. It's age and position. Doesn't even mean the Bills don't want to do it, it just means they were willing to let it go that far when in most instances they have not. That has to speak for something. 

 

Allen is a star QB and we have signed an overwhelming amount of foundational pieces at a time when we did not know if they would or wouldn't be the ones we really needed. Time has proven thus far we need a different combination of pieces which makes decisions on future already existing pieces a tad bit easier to swallow. This defense has not got us to where we want to be long term and Edmunds is a center piece of it. No matter how good Edmunds is in coverage he still a MLB in an offensive league and with an offseason to redevelop scheme and the right players, we very well could be better vs previous versions. We aren't going to sign a 6th rounder and ask him to be Edmunds. Well, maybe, but we shouldn't.  

The reason you don't lock up or extend players like Edmunds, Poyer, Oliver & Gabe is because they're not playing at a high enough level for success or in Po's case age + injuries. This organization has done some dumb things,  but letting these 4 walk is not one of them.

[Brand J]

At the beginning of the year, this team chose to throw $13M/yr at Dawson Knox rather than save that money to put it towards Edmunds next contract. I thought that was pretty telling that he wasn’t coming back, as well as who the organization valued more at that price point. 

[BillsFanForever19]

Not an issue at all because he's going to be WAY out of our price range. He's a 2 time Pro Bowler with 5 years of experience at the age of 24 with freakish size and athleticism and a completely clean bill of health.

 

Regardless of how many feel about him around here, being young, healthy, having had success, and having the measurables are what gets one paid in FA. And he has all of it. His age and wear and tear for his level of experience is completely unheard of.

 

With the expected raise in cap, I expect his contract to be north of 100 million dollars. Most likely the largest contract for an Inside Linebacker in NFL history. If not Roquan's 100 million dollar deal, than it won't be very far behind.

 

He's already said he's testing the market and once that happens - it's over. No decision at all.

Edited March 2, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[Buffalo716]

It’s very easy to think what Edmunds impact is… Is he Ray Lewis? Obviously not

 

Is he Preston Brown? Obviously not

 

He is an enigma…. The most controversial player in NFL history for signing … He is 24

 

And played five seasons in the NFL…. 

 

If you don’t re-sign him… There was no point in drafting him

 

Because you are drafting him for the second contract… 25 to 30… The peak of his career

 

We have a five year veteran who is as young is kids coming out of the draft… That’s House Money…

 

There is zero probability that getting rid of him is the right move

 

You need to find a kid that is the physical freak in the prime of his career which is slim to none… expect tremaine 

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by Buffalo716

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

It’s very easy to think what Edmunds impact is… Is he Ray Lewis? Obviously not

 

Is he Preston Brown? Obviously not

 

He is an enigma…. The most controversial player in NFL history for signing … He is 24

 

And played five seasons in the NFL…. 

 

If you don’t re-sign him… There was no point in drafting him

 

Because you are drafting him for the second contract… 25 to 30… The peak of his career

 

We have a five year veteran who is as young is kids coming out of the draft… That’s House Money…

 

There is zero probability that getting rid of him is the right move

 

You need to find a kid that is the physical freak in the prime of his career which is slim to none… expect tremaine 

 

 

It really does depend on what the $$ number is for me. I lean towards paying Tremaine. He has just come off his best season, and what you say about him entering what should be the peak of his career is right. The period when he has sufficient experience, knowledge and know how to maximise his incredible physical potential. I am very happy to pay him like a kid who could over the next 5 years become the best MLB in the NFL. I am less enthused about the idea of paying him as if he already is. If he is willing to come in right below Smith, Warner and Leonard at $18-18.5m AAV with some guarantee escalators that retains flexibility for the Bills in the first couple of years if 2022 turns out to be his high point then I'm in. I know people are worried about immediate cap space but Roquan is coming in at only $9m cap hit in 2023 for Baltimore. I think you can get Edmunds' 2023 charge into that range, or maybe even a little below. 

[Ramza86]

Hes probably never going to be worth what he is going to get paid....but I can see him shining on a team that will use him in a way that we havent.

[colin]

he's simply not a big enough of an impact player to sign for what another team will pay him, not to us and not in our D at the least.

 

rando mid tier free agent D Jones had a bigger impact on our D being out vs cincy than edmunds ever has.  the front 4 and the scheme protects the back 7 in our D, so saving and getting max value in the back 7 is the key to logistical success.

 

a strong improvement in 1 or 2 OL positions which could be secured w what edmunds would make would do so much more to improve our team.  our d would be likely slightly worse, but our OL would be much better.  if we also improve by adding one additional target, not exactly an impossible task, we legit have a shot at an all time type of offense w josh allen running the show.

[Thrivefourfive]

Now that McDermott is HC and DC, wouldn’t he be more tied to Edmunds more than anyone else in the organization? Would McD let Edmunds go, and take the possibility that he does better elsewhere AND prove the Bills mis-drafted or mishandled him? McD might just want to keep Edmunds around so he doesn’t come back and negatively reflect McD’s poor form. 

[Nephilim17]

Jay Skurski has penned quite the article: "Terrel Bernard could be answer at middle linebacker if Tremaine Edmunds leaves via free agency"

 

McDermott's comments seem pretty non-committal on this and may simply be a hypothetical response to a Skurski question (can TB play middle?):

McDermott mentioned that most of Bernard’s time as a rookie was spent at outside linebacker, so moving into the middle and calling the defense would be a big adjustment, but not one the Bills think he’s incapable of making.
 

“He played middle in college, and so that’s on the table,” McDermott said. “He’s shown to this point that he is extremely smart and capable mentally to move from one position to the next.”

 

At 6'1" and only 224 lb. with middling speed I'd be shocked if Bernard gets to start as MLB but I suppose crazier things have happened.

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/terrel-bernard-could-be-answer-at-middle-linebacker-if-tremaine-edmunds-leaves-via-free-agency/article_e4b4d50e-b95c-11ed-a9a1-7fe6552a2431.html

 

p.s. as a Buffalo News article this may be behind a paywall.

[GreggTX]

I think this is Beane's toughest offseason, but this may not be his toughest decision if another team pays at or near $20 million. I just don't think you pay a MLB that kind of money unless he's on par with Luke Kuechly, a future HOF'er. That's especially true this offseason when we have one of the very worst OL's in the NFL that is holding us back. Get an average MLB who's decent in zone coverage for half that amount. There are much higher priorities.

[GreggTX]

On 3/2/2023 at 10:43 PM, colin said:

he's simply not a big enough of an impact player to sign for what another team will pay him, not to us and not in our D at the least.

 

rando mid tier free agent D Jones had a bigger impact on our D being out vs cincy than edmunds ever has. the front 4 and the scheme protects the back 7 in our D, so saving and getting max value in the back 7 is the key to logistical success.

 

a strong improvement in 1 or 2 OL positions which could be secured w what edmunds would make would do so much more to improve our team. our d would be likely slightly worse, but our OL would be much better. if we also improve by adding one additional target, not exactly an impossible task, we legit have a shot at an all time type of offense w josh allen running the show.

 

 

Very true. Josh is clearly our best player and the key to our success. A top 5 OL makes everyone else on offense look better and gives us a solid run game that other teams have to take into account every play. If we could save $20 million to spend on the OL and a real #1 RB that could give us 1200 yards or more, Josh would have an MVP year. Take the pressure off Josh and let a big, nasty OL take some of the load. Add a solid WR2 and better TE depth. How do you stop that? As long as the DL can bring pressure, I believe we can be a better, more complete team. The Chiefs, Eagles and Bengals definitely figured out the value of a good to great OL and it showed. Josh in a clean pocket with a top 5 run game that features a bullish RB that can wear down defenses works for me. If we win in the trenches, we'd have to beat ourselves in order to lose.

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by GreggTX

[corta765]

I would say this offseason is his biggest challenge since the year they drafted Josh. They no longer can build freely without consequence the way they did when they got Josh and some of the core pieces they built the original foundation with may have to go (Edmunds/Poyer).

 

Beane needs to basically strengthen the O line, add to the WR corp, either find a way to keep their MLB and SS OR replace one or both then while having cap restraints. 

 

If Beane can make the right choices it can possibly open the window wider as the proper draft and FA adds allow subsequent years to see some BPA draft picks. But if you miss your only digging further in the hole.

[turftoe]

Not sure why Beane doesn't tag and trade Edmunds. He is a valuable asset and we can place the tag on him until we trade him.  Beane will never get the 3rd rounder as part of the compensatory pick thingy since he will certainly sign more UFAs than we let go.  He always does.  We need picks and Edmunds is worth at least a day 2 pick.   

[Victory Formation]

Don’t count out Terrel Bernard. Yes, he’s undersized, but yes he’s had a full year to pack on some muscle, from what I’ve seen he’s a very instinctive and intuitive LB, so who knows? He may be a quality starter for us next year.

 

Also, Milano is obviously a high quality starter as well. So I think if Buffalo drafted somebody in the 3rd-4th round I’d feel really good about this group. DeMarvion Overshown out of Texas is a name I’d throw out there, he could probably be had in RD3. Nice size, strong, instinctive, playmaker.

[starrymessenger]

On 3/2/2023 at 6:24 AM, Ramza86 said:

Hes probably never going to be worth what he is going to get paid....but I can see him shining on a team that will use him in a way that we havent.

This makes sense to me. In any event, whether he deserves it or not, some team(s) will want to pay him big time and the Bills will be unable to compete even if they wanted to. Our next mlb is going to be a rookie or free agent. I'd love Wagner for 2 years.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

7 hours ago, Nephilim17 said:

Jay Skurski has penned quite the article: "Terrel Bernard could be answer at middle linebacker if Tremaine Edmunds leaves via free agency"

 

McDermott's comments seem pretty non-committal on this and may simply be a hypothetical response to a Skurski question (can TB play middle?):

McDermott mentioned that most of Bernard’s time as a rookie was spent at outside linebacker, so moving into the middle and calling the defense would be a big adjustment, but not one the Bills think he’s incapable of making.
 

“He played middle in college, and so that’s on the table,” McDermott said. “He’s shown to this point that he is extremely smart and capable mentally to move from one position to the next.”

 

At 6'1" and only 224 lb. with middling speed I'd be shocked if Bernard gets to start as MLB but I suppose crazier things have happened.

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/terrel-bernard-could-be-answer-at-middle-linebacker-if-tremaine-edmunds-leaves-via-free-agency/article_e4b4d50e-b95c-11ed-a9a1-7fe6552a2431.html

 

p.s. as a Buffalo News article this may be behind a paywall.

If McD thinks this smurf can play MLB, it is hopeless.

[Dr.Sack]

Not really a hard decision. Either you pay him top 5 MLB $ or try to replace with a Bernard or someone in the draft. The $ portion is not a concern for a team that has cap flexibility over next 3 seasons. 

[Dopey]

5 hours ago, turftoe said:

Not sure why Beane doesn't tag and trade Edmunds. He is a valuable asset and we can place the tag on him until we trade him.  Beane will never get the 3rd rounder as part of the compensatory pick thingy since he will certainly sign more UFAs than we let go.  He always does.  We need picks and Edmunds is worth at least a day 2 pick.   

Unless he’s signed to a contract, I don’t think they can trade him. Even if he’s tagged. He’s still a free agent. 

[BuffaloRebound]

Vander Esch for 3 years $30m or Edmunds for 5 years $90m? 

[cgg716]

Easy decision. Defense doesn’t win, and we’ve already spent far too much cap on it. Cya