IndyMark

Good choice, stepping out, as clearly you are fine with dedicating $10.7m to a player that shows up 3 games a year. I am glad you will not reply as I will not miss trying to hold a conversation with someone that has very little idea on what they are watching. I. Appreciate. You. For that. And yes, statistics matter. I know. Sad for you, of course, but having an IDL "that tries hard" just is not what we are looking for or need. I tend to value production and impact. But, it is fine to disagree. Oh, disrupting an offense? Ed? The Bengals clearly had no idea what to do against us and barely eeked out a FG against the Oliver-led Bills Defense.....I overlooked that. Those first two series the Bengals were so disrupted they could not score....oh, wait? I give you credit, you are a funny guy. An ill-informed guy, but you are funny.

And by beating those double teams, he finished with 5 TFL’s and 2.5 sacks? You have a funny definition of ‘beating’. Also, disrupting and pressures are strawman-like arguments. That is like saying Gabe Davis almost caught the ball when the reality is he did not catch it. Ed does not finish plays, clearly. Stop with the rose colored glasses. There were plenty of times he was single-blocked and taken out of a play. Double teams all year? Not close. Triple teamed is flat out comical. Most on here would lambaste Beane if he signed a DT tomorrow on a 1 yr - $10m deal that last year produced 5 TFL and 2.5 sacks while being undersized. Ed is worth 1/2 that. Sure he has 3 good games a year. That should not be acceptable, but if it is for you that is just curious.

As important, Beane is doing precisely what he stated he would do. He is positioning the Bills to go BPA on draft day by minimizing glaring holes on the roster. Additionally, he is doing it in a prudent manner which is sustainable on being competitive not just for 1-2 years but beyond. This is not to say he has not made errors, but to his credit he is quite transparent in what he states he wants to do and then what he actually does. Now, of course BPA is a rather ambiguous notion as there is never a true consensus (particularly at pick #27) on who the BPA is, yet to me at least, it is becoming clearer with each FA signing that whichever prospect seems to be BPA, will be who we select; which is exactly where we want to be and how good teams get better. A rising tide raises all ships. We can certainly debate the magnitude of how we feel the Bills have gotten better this offseason, or not, but Beane is doing some pretty smart things that (again in my estimation) are making the Bills better. By itself, signing McGovern is a huge upgrade over Saffold. No question. We are a better team simply by that single move. Similarly, our #3-5 WR line up is better, no doubt with Harty and Sherfield and our big RB has just been addressed. We all should be feeling much better that we can go BPA on draft day and not reach for a position just because we need some bodies and depth.

Yes, this has been addressed prior (a lot) and "big" is a relative term for football. Ed is small as it relates to IDL, no question. He is about 25 pounds too light with shorter than average arms. So, not only does that translate to his very average IDL play where he is easily consumed by blockers, he would fare even worse on the edge as a pass rusher. He would not be able to generate the leverage necessary or engage OL in a manner that would help him win those battles. Ed is dependent on everything around him being optimal before he can impact a game. See both the Cincinnati playoff game (zero impact) and Detroit Thanksgiving game where he had impact (was going against a 3rd tier back up, DaQaun was playing as was Von). Trading Ed is the best thing Beane could do as his cap hit is not proportional to his impact. He is just too expensive for what he does for our defense. Actually some of his were sharing concerns about Ed before this year, so for some fans he did not inherit the mantle from Edmunds, he was holding it all along.

I wonder, (1) Allen (2) Diggs (3) Morse (4) Milano (5) Poyer (6) Miller (7) Jones (8) Knox (9) Dawkins (10) Rosseau (11) Hyde (12) Bass and this is excluding Tremaine and Martin; whom demonstrably had better years than Oliver. All this to say, while Oliver may not be as bad as some of us believe, he is just as equally overrated for some here. Oliver is a JAG. He is not even top 10 on the team. Oliver is easily replaceable. He simply needs too many things to be perfect to perform. $10m per year is way too much for him, no question.

I get the hesitation, but like Edmunds that person is likely not on the roster yet. You can replace Oliver with (a) a draft pick (b) a free agent currently (c) a camp cut or (d) maybe one of our own blossoms? I do not have a name in mind, yet I am more concerned about our plans for replacing Edmunds than Oliver. Oliver is replaceable and sure having no IDL on contract beyond this year is less than ideal, but IDL is a position where (for less than $10+m/yr you can find "Average Starters") which at best is precisely what Oliver is.

Objectively, our OL has gotten better by signing McGovern. He is an instant upgrade over Saffold. If everything else remains the same (and it may not) our OL is better due to that one simple signing. I do not know enough about Kyle Allen versus Case Keenum to say if our back-up QB "room" got better or not, yet even if it did OL is more important than backup QB. Finally, I do think Harty is an upgrade over McKenzie but that (IMO),overall, does not necessarily make our WR group better to the same extent McGovern instantly elevates our OL in a substantial manner. Saffold was that bad last year. He literally may have been the lowest rated OL in the league and the amount of times he literally spectated instead of blocked was equally comical, inexcusable, and sad. Fun question and hopefully we will have different answers in 1-2 weeks.

This may be the best way to convey the true narrative about Ed that words fail to do or that those enamored with him are impervious to. Well done. Really well done with this graph. Anytime someone can quickly and vividly identify the 3 games a player played above expectations in (of the 14 played they played in a season) a problem exists and should be a clue they are not worth big money. Ed is a $5.5m / yr type player at best. The $10m+ slotted to him this year is criminal and warrants a trade IMO. A 5th would be reasonable, I would take a 7th and would hail Beane a wizard if he could get a 3rd. Finally, of all years this would be the year we need massive IDL who can penetrate consistently understanding we will have a new-to-the system LB replacing Edmunds. The play charted above of Ed would likely put too much pressure on our LB during the adjustment period (new captain, play caller, etc).

If only we had a DT that was tradeable? And only upside from doing so. Huh?

My last line of the post your replied to literally stated bring someone in to challenge him in camp. The bigger issue is the implication we should move on from Brown, now, which is flat out goofy. You actually are agreeing with me. Which is exactly what my last line indicated in my post your responded to. You are actually agreeing with me. He was injured and missed an entire off- and pre-season, of course he regressed. Getting rid of him without seeing a full off- and pre-season is goofy.

^^^ This. Also, beyond forgetting about Brown missing an entire offseason with an injury, I also feel those calling for Brown to be replaced have forgotten about the Wyatt Teller effect. Beane likely will not do that twice. With proper training Brown can improve his footwork and movement skills to continue developing. Sure he should be challenged in camp, but to say that we need to move on without seeing what a healthy off- and pre-season can do for him is just not smart.

Well, for starters Ed was the 9th overall pick, so perhaps you should at least be accurate if you are going to try to argue with someone. I get it. You are frustrated because you know you are wrong and have no sound argument or counter argument. I do appreciate your passion for the Bills so, in that regard, we have things in common. And that is a positive of this board. In closing, it is exhausting (yet somewhat amusing) to engage with posters like you as you try, so so hard, but come up short in many ways and you make way too many assumptions to try and "win" an argument or debate. At this point, you are truly arguing with yourself. My point was made, made effectively, and now I bow out to watch you prattle on. Take care.

Where to start? First, I typed my comments so if you "heard" something that says more about you than you think. Second, let me help you with reading comprehension. The following "and take what you can get..." should give you a clue. No? here is this and I will type it slowly.....that....phrase...implies...a...trade. Better? Not once above or anywhere in my previous posts have I ever stated or implied cutting Ed. Though now that you, emphasizing you, mentioned it maybe Beane is pondering that as a late camp cut if Ed comes into camp with a chip on his shoulder that is disproportional to his production. You know, culture and all. I appreciate you teaching me a valuable lesson in needing to calibrate whom is posting and what type of dialogue I should expect.

$10m can address a few OFF holes and with Ed’s injury history and inconsistency he is really a $3.5m player at best. $10m is criminal to slot to Ed. Move quickly on and take what you can get, regardless.

Actually, he is not. I have stated on this forum multiple times if Beane could get a 5th for ‘big’ Ed he is in hero territory. Anyone thinking there are teams lining up for an undersized, underperforming IDL are in fact on drugs. His contract notwithstanding, Ed is not a game changer and his cap hit too high - tell me again the market for that combo?

First, it is "...it would take too long.". Not "to" long. You. Are. Welcome. Second, really? That is the best you can do? Sad. I did (and likely still will) appreciate your efforts on draft prospects, but that does not translate to watching pro's in a system and on a team. You should strive to do better. I get it. You know you are wrong and this is how you respond. Okay. The fact remains you have no idea how to evaluate current NFL talent in the form of IDL. Anyone with any sense has to acknowledge the very pedestrian and easily replaced level of play from "big" Ed. Respectfully so, of course.

Oliver is not even the best DT on this team. Too many excuses from some on this thread for his poor showing over course of last season.......i.e., he was injured, "taped up too much", blah, blah, blah. Bottom line, if we can get a 5th or better for Oliver, Beane is in hero territory. Oliver should be traded as the cap savings would be monumental to where we could spend on the OFF and we could plug almost anyone into his slot to equate to his 2022 play/production. If extended, Beane should be terminated. Why over invest in under performers, it makes no sense. He needs too many things to be perfect to perform. We won without him and lost with him.

Respectfully stated, you are wrong. Let me introduce you to the concept of Physics. If Oliver had about 25 more pounds on him, the proper proportions of course, he would be significantly harder to move. Plus, his arm length is not the flex you thought it would be because the possibility exists that Oliver can pack on 25 pounds of weight, there is no likelihood he gains 2 inches in arm length. In sum, Oliver is "undersized" and under performs.

A few observations/thoughts on the above: (a) Not sure Hamlin will be back, Hyde is an essential keep; (b) Please define "huge" on the Oliver trade. If we get a 5th for Oliver we should all dance a jig, on the spot. He has is not nearly as revered for other teams as he is here with a select group. The key with his trade is to dump the goofy and nightmare-ish cap hit of $10m+. That savings in and of itself fills us about 3 holes on the squad and NO it does not create a hole, Ed is replaceable with a day 3 pick or street free agent. (c) Agree on cutting McKenzie, that really should have been done last year. (d) I am not familiar with "mild" restructures; it is not worth the effort in kicking the can down the road for a mild benefit. Not sure that is a thing. (e) Spencer Brown will not be Beane's second Wyatt Teller; Brown will be on the squad for a while. Beane learned a lesson. (f) Hines should be restructured and prioritized as he is so versatile, particularly in Dorsey's scheme or intended scheme.

Asking honestly, does it though? The math on this timing seems to indicate Leslie's contract has or will expire soon or certainly within the next 12 months. Then Leslie is stepping back for a year, as such when he returns he has no contract and is not with the Bills. Admittedly, I have not read the official announcement and while sabbaticals do in fact work that way, it did not appear to me this is a Bills sponsored Sabbatical. I may be wrong, but it seems to me Frazier's time with the Bills is likely over.

To directly answer the thread title's question, no the decision has already been made. In fact, this will be an easy decision for Beane as he already has a number, a line in the sand, that he is willing to pay Edmunds. If Edmunds gets more on the open market good on him. If not, he returns as a Bill. It is all about the math and that makes decisions easy. Now, the content of the thread and the discussion is all about alot of things, but the answer to the thread title is easy, no pun intended. This will be one Beane's easiest decisions all off-season as it will be made for him with the numbers. What, then, might be Beane's hardest decision? For me it will be how little to take for Ed Oliver in a trade. I would love to trade Ed, for many reasons but the cap relief is huge, but what team truly would want him or want to pay more than a 5th round pick? Likely no one, in that way, trading Oliver will be the harder decision based merely on what is acceptable to have someone take him off our hands.

Admittedly, you had me with the first half.......well done. I too hope your jinx helps.

Agreed. It is absurd to think the surgery and missing virtually all offseason training did not impact Brown's development. On the contrary, if he had a chance to condition and train, his skills improve. Also, a new coach whom he did not have a chance to work with, obviously can contribute to his lack of improvement this season. Finally, it is important for all the experts here to utter the name "Wyatt Teller" out loud; maybe do this 2 or 3 times if you are confused why it will give you time to process the fact Beane is not making that mistake again. Brown has not hit his ceiling, far from it. If he has a healthy offseason, his play should improve. Again, there are no guarantees it will, but to claim an offseason surgery that limited his engagement with conditioning, training, and targeted practice did not impact Brown's development is not how things work, in real life at least. Maybe on a message board, but not in real life.

You are spot on here. Well stated. Trading Oliver does not create a void, at all. Any IDL, with a healthy Miller, Rouseau, and Jones alongside can produce what Oliver produces on a game by game basis. I cannot understand the logic that Oliver is essential when he needs everything around him to be optimal to produce. If we could get a 5th round pick or better for Oliver we gain $10m in cap space.....that would go far in addressing the OL. Simply stated, a $10m/yr IDL should be a disruptive force by themselves and not need 5 ideal conditions to be met in order to effect a game.

I am genuinely curious on what that would look like, according to you? Not generalities and platitudes but specific and particular ideas. Also, your expressed normative thoughts on Rhianna fans turning into football fans is a bit presumptive. Maybe, much to your dismay, football fans are likely a bit more diverse than what you currently believe. And that is actually a good thing. I am as ardent and die hard a football fan as they come (likely equal to you) and I abhor a lot about the elements surrounding the game, but I also keep in mind it is not about me. I appreciate those elements and move on. For example, the national anthem and all the military aspects surrounding the pre-game, is that really necessary? No it is not, it does nothing and costs a lot of money for a lot of people for no true benefit. But, I understand for some people it likely is important and a high priority. So, I deal with it. This is life. Things are not always about you or me, sometimes it is ok to have a bit of dissonance. It makes us all better.