Tremaine Edmunds will test free agency

[QLBillsFan]

11 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Resources to offense please.

Yup. KC won the SB with at best an average D. Bills get Hyde and Miller back. Replace Poyer and Edmunds with cap friendly veterans or mid rounds draft choices. 
Go get 2 OL starters and #2 WR. 2 in first and second round. And 1 vet via FA. 

[Doc Brown]

Figures Edmunds plays by far his best year on his contract year.  He's the one player that there was a notable drop off in our defense when he was out.  Hindsight says we should've extended him last year.  Now, he may have priced himself out to a rebuilding team with plenty of cap room.  It stinks.

[Freak-O]

1 minute ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

Von Miller cost us Tremaine Edmunds.  A 33 year old injured LB that will be gone soon.  Beane took the home run swing and whiffed.  Another Beane failure.  The failures just keep stacking up for this regime with draft picks and fa signings, roster management in general 

Not to mention the even bigger failure when Beane drafted a quarterback that has now been injured not once, but at least TWICE! In the first round too…

[pigpen65]

13 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Figures Edmunds plays by far his best year on his contract year.  He's the one player that there was a notable drop off in our defense when he was out.  Hindsight says we should've extended him last year.  Now, he may have priced himself out to a rebuilding team with plenty of cap room.  It stinks.

No there wasn't. Couple of the best games against the run were with him out.  And the guys that replaced him led the team in tackles 

Edited February 18, 2023 by pigpen65

[Bubba Gump]

Buh bye mister makes the tackle 7 yards downfield because he took the wrong angle. 

[Doc Brown]

18 minutes ago, pigpen65 said:

No there wasn't. Couple of the best games against the run were with him out.  And the guys that replaced him led the team in tackles 

I was talking more about pass coverage where his size, length, range, and athleticism really makes a QB's life more difficult.   We allowed pedestrian QB's (Pickett, Cousins, Goff, and Brissett) to feast off us when Edmunds wasn't out there.  

Edited February 18, 2023 by Doc Brown

[Richard Noggin]

13 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

49ers LB Al Azeez Al-Shaair could be the ideal replacement.  He is a free agent and will be cheaper than Edmunds and does a lot of the same things Edmunds can do in this defense.  He has been overshadowed in SF by the elite Warner and also Greenlaw, and he could be a break out player as he goes somewhere else now as a FA.  

 

My top 2 wish list Free Agents right now that are not OL are Al-Shaair and RB D'Onta Foreman.  Both will be affordable guys to replace both Edmunds and Devin and have the potential to be as good or better than who they are replacing.  

 

Totally agree that Al-Shaair looks poised to break out from what I saw of San Fran in 2022...but then when I look him up I am surprised to see that his snap count and production were actually both cut in half in 2022, after a big jump in 2021. I'm guessing injuries/availability of Warner and Greenlaw are inversely correlated with Al-Shaair's opportunities and production.

 

So maybe that drop-off helps to dampen his pending FA value?

 

39 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Figures Edmunds plays by far his best year on his contract year.  He's the one player that there was a notable drop off in our defense when he was out.  Hindsight says we should've extended him last year.  Now, he may have priced himself out to a rebuilding team with plenty of cap room.  It stinks.

 

I'd argue that Milano's presence was more predictive of defensive success than was Edmunds's. 

Edited February 18, 2023 by Richard Noggin

[LABILLBACKER]

8 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

I was talking more about pass coverage where his size, length, range, and athleticism really makes a QB's life more difficult.   We allowed pedestrian QB's (Pickett, Cousins, Goff, and Brissett) to feast off us when Edmunds wasn't out there.  

OMG.....Doc, that's all he did. It was like watching a soccer player play midfield. I tried so damn hard to find something remarkable about Tremaine for 5 years.  Paying him anywhere near 20M when your offense is hemorrhaging is insanity. He's not getting re-sign NOR should he. And I have a sneaky suspicion our defense will not drop off the end of the earth without him.  

[iccrewman112]

13 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Or course and would be stupid not to.  He's going to make generational wealth by testing FA.

fyi if he signs for 5 years for 30M fully guaranteed it’s generational wealth.

[Doc Brown]

23 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

OMG.....Doc, that's all he did. It was like watching a soccer player play midfield. I tried so damn hard to find something remarkable about Tremaine for 5 years.  Paying him anywhere near 20M when your offense is hemorrhaging is insanity. He's not getting re-sign NOR should he. And I have a sneaky suspicion our defense will not drop off the end of the earth without him.  

I think our pass defense was 4th best when he was on the field compared to 27th worst in terms of epa when he was off the field this season.  Be careful what you wish for.

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

I think our pass defense was 4th best when he was on the field compared to 27th worst in terms of epa when he was off the field this season.  Be careful what you wish for.

 

Had his best year as a Bill, without doubt. And I think you are right the D missed him when he was out. Not helped by the fact that the 3rd round rookie who replaced him had basically no business being on an NFL field.

[John from Riverside]

59 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

I was talking more about pass coverage where his size, length, range, and athleticism really makes a QB's life more difficult.   We allowed pedestrian QB's (Pickett, Cousins, Goff, and Brissett) to feast off us when Edmunds wasn't out there.  

Could very well be end up being right doc

 

It happens whenever contracts come up and this is where Brandon is going to half to do his magic

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Had his best year as a Bill, without doubt. And I think you are right the D missed him when he was out. Not helped by the fact that the 3rd round rookie who replaced him had basically no business being on an NFL field.

At third round pick is very troubling I mean all GM’s miss but this feels like a big miss

 

And I’m a big proponent that you don’t judge a player by the first year but he’s got the Aaron maybin feel to me

[Doc Brown]

15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Had his best year as a Bill, without doubt. And I think you are right the D missed him when he was out. Not helped by the fact that the 3rd round rookie who replaced him had basically no business being on an NFL field.

Bernard was really bad but it was a linebacker by committee approach they used in the three and a half games they missed (Bernard against the Steelers, Dodson against the Browns/2nd half against the Vikings, Klein against the Lions).  The drop off was noticeable in pass coverage with all of those guys.  It's obviously up to Beane to upgrade the position if he lets Edmunds go but we can't count on anybody on our current roster.

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Bernard was really bad but it was a linebacker by committee approach they used in the three and a half games they missed (Bernard against the Steelers, Dodson against the Browns/2nd half against the Vikings, Klein against the Lions).  The drop off was noticeable in pass coverage with all of those guys.  It's obviously up to Beane to upgrade the position if he lets Edmunds go but we can't count on anybody on our current roster.

 

Yea Dodson was disappointing when he got his shot. But he was an UDFA. They spent a 3rd round pick on Bernard. Such an odd choice. Then and now.

[Doc Brown]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea Dodson was disappointing when he got his shot. But he was an UDFA. They spent a 3rd round pick on Bernard. Such an odd choice. Then and now.

He only got his shot because Bernard was such a liability.  The Basham and Bernard picks were his two most head scratching picks in the last four drafts imo.  Most on the board agreed they were at the time so it's not even hindsight.  

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Doc Brown said:

He only got his shot because Bernard was such a liability.  The Basham and Bernard picks were his two most head scratching picks in the last four drafts imo.  Most on the board agreed they were at the time so it's not even hindsight.  

 

The bigger worry on Basham is they said he was under consideration late first where they took Greg. I honestly think that was just an evaluation whiff. He was likely sticking out on their board at the end of the second so much so that they had to take him. But he isn't the guy they thought he was. I remember he had one super fan on this forum in the run up to that draft and I kept asking him "how does he win in the NFL?" And I never got an answer. As I suspected the reality was - he doesn't.

[In Summary]

I probably won't like paying Edmunds at his open market value. However, if he leaves, I see Beane/McDermott drafting his replacement in the 1st or 2nd - thus sidetracking the offensive upgrade.

[Richard Noggin]

2 minutes ago, In Summary said:

I probably won't like paying Edmunds at his open market value. However, if he leaves, I see Beane/McDermott drafting his replacement in the 1st or 2nd - thus sidetracking the offensive upgrade.

 

I REALLY hope the Bills DON'T pay Edmunds a top market value deal, no matter what happens next. Maybe a Milano-ish discount would be worth considering, but I prefer totally reallocating the cap space to the offensive side of the ledger. 

 

That being said, IF instead that 5-year, 1st-round asset they traded UP to select leaves in FA without compensation AND the Bills then spend 1st or 2nd day draft capital on a replacement (the year AFTER spending a 3rd round pick on Bernard) for a D that overwhelmingly fields only 2 LBs...I'll probably be difficult to console. So I hope you are wrong.

[transplantbillsfan]

Well... it might honestly be a blessing in disguise if another team pays him.

 

It's not that I don't want him back, but if those dollars are devoted to our offense taking 2 steps forward while our defense takes 2 steps back, I'm perfectly fine with that.

[Buffalo Junction]

14 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

This is very, very bad news for anyone who wants a real investment on offense. 

 

Edmunds is a pretty good LB, but will he command elite $$?

 

To anyone celebrating him leaving, expect yet another 1st round defense draft pick. Either S, LB, or good old DL. 

 

WR after round 4. OL we can do without because Allen can always run for his life, which is an "advantage" for us and part of his skillet apparently. 

 

 

If they take the $18-$20MM Edmunds gets in FA and use it to sign a pair of starting Olinemen I’ll be fine with them drafting a defensive player in the first. 

[Buffalo Junction]

42 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The bigger worry on Basham is they said he was under consideration late first where they took Greg. I honestly think that was just an evaluation whiff. He was likely sticking out on their board at the end of the second so much so that they had to take him. But he isn't the guy they thought he was. I remember he had one super fan on this forum in the run up to that draft and I kept asking him "how does he win in the NFL?" And I never got an answer. As I suspected the reality was - he doesn't.

I had the thought when drafted that they might have him add 15-20 pounds and move to a hybrid DE/3-tech role as he was at his best pass rushing when bumped inside at Wake Forest. Basically take a shot at getting what they didn’t get from signing Quentin Jefferson. 🤷‍♂️.

[Nitro]

As many on Two Bills drive opine about Edmunds pro and con, his loss will impact this offense more than they realize.  His leaving opens a huge hole and there is no immediate solutions.  He has been inconsistent but his presence on the field alters passing games over the middle. This off season will be an interesting one to see the direction the Bills are going to go. 

[GreggTX]

It's a tough loss, but you can't justify a huge LB salary when your OL is crippling your offense and urgently needs multiple upgrades. We're going to have to spend some serious cash on the OL if we're serious about winning a SB. I just hope our HC who was a DC understands this. Our D was significantly better when Edmunds was available, but that's also because our backup LB's are awful. Put an average MLB in there and use the cash saved on the OL and that will be a net plus for the team. Our chances largely depend on Josh. We need to protect him and run the ball much better and more often to get the most out of our QB.

Edited February 18, 2023 by GreggTX

[Mango]

On 2/17/2023 at 2:42 PM, No_Matter_What said:

Funny, I think this would mean the direct opposite (if true).

 

I think people underestimate Beane and McD. I guess they realized that they need to change they approach a little bit. I am pretty sure that even though people mock them now the draft will be heavily offense oriented. And letting Edmunds go means that they are willing to invest in offense even more.

 

I am not happy if he goes, but I fully support the idea to invest in offense and try to get similar results with less on defense. And I really expect Beane to go this direction. I guess we'll see. 

I mean, the first thing they did after the SB was sign a core special teamer. I don’t anticipate them doing anything different. 
 

Edit: I don’t think taking offense v defense early in the draft constitutes a meaningful change in philosophy. Rather roster spots for core special teamers who don’t contribute elsewhere. Play calling. Getting rookies involved early and often. Etc. 

Edited February 18, 2023 by Mango

[LABILLBACKER]

5 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

I think our pass defense was 4th best when he was on the field compared to 27th worst in terms of epa when he was off the field this season.  Be careful what you wish for.

What was our pass defense while he was on the field during the PLAYOFFS.  I guarantee you it wasn't 4th.

[Behindenemylines]

Although I saw vast improvements in TE’s game this year he still appears to just not have great instincts. 
 

misses gaps and was often seen chasing down for tackles 

 

will be a loss but not an irreplaceable one, and most likely cheaper which gives more capital for the offense where should invest 75% of our resources. 

[CNYfan]

5 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

He only got his shot because Bernard was such a liability.  The Basham and Bernard picks were his two most head scratching picks in the last four drafts imo.  Most on the board agreed they were at the time so it's not even hindsight.  

I think everyone was on OL for those picks?.  

[RunTheBall]

I’ll believe it when I see it. McBeane love Edmunds. I think they will pay him. 

 

I’m not saying I think it’s the right move, I just don’t see them letting him go.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

20 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

And then when our Defense falls off a cliff next year because of how integral Edmunds was, and we lose in the Wild Card round 42-38, fans can keep complaining about Frazier/McD/scheme. So it's really giving Bills fans what they want.

It might happen even with Edmunds on the field. 

[BarleyNY]

20 hours ago, BillsSbSoon said:

There’s some truth to what you’re saying..but on the other hand he’s still pretty young and coming off maybe his best year. Starter, captain etc. I don’t wanna hear it from anyone if the defense takes a dip without him next year. The meltdown will be epic here if mcd drafts a mlb early on

That’s fair. But here’s my counter: When does McDermott, Frazier & Co. have to do something with less like the offense has had to? 2 firsts spent on CBs, a first at MLB, 2 firsts, 2 seconds a huge FA signing on the DL versus 1 first on a QB, a first traded for a WR, 2 seconds spent on the OL (one of which busted) and 1 second on a RB.

 

My take is that defensive success the Bills have had is due directly to the resources spent on it. If that’s what a team needs to do to find success, then it’s the talent and not the coaching. The other side of that coin is the opportunity cost of using those resources on the offense. The deficiencies we see at OL and WR are because of what was spent on the defense. The job Daboll did to help this offense succeed should not be discounted. That was very much an uphill battle - even with Allen and Diggs - versus what the defensive side had to do.

 

Today’s NFL is not a league where you win a SB by building a pristine defense and then using the leftovers to support your FQB. This has been my single greatest point of frustration with this Bills regime. My fear with Edmunds hitting FA is that this regime will pay whatever it takes to retain him because McDermott needs an MLB like him to run his defense. Or they’ll use another first round pick (or more with a trade up) to replace him. 

[SoCal Deek]

Lots of pros and cons with Edmunds but in the end it all comes down to how much money THIS team wants to invest in him. I’m guessing it’s not as much as some OTHER team would like to. So, if he’s gone, it’s up to the Bills defensive brain trust to change their strategy with his absence. In fact, I’m praying it’ll force them to. Unfortunately, I have very little confidence that they will…and therein lies the problem. 

[Dopey]

21 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

How integral was he in the previous 3 sad Bills playoff exits?  The scheme WITH Edmunds gave up 107 in those  3 games.  How would he be missed?

About as integral as Milano. I still see him getting “Mossed” by Kelcey for the game winning TD in our playoff loss to them. 

2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

What was our pass defense while he was on the field during the PLAYOFFS.  I guarantee you it wasn't 4th.

Especially when Milano gets beat for a game winning td by Kelcey…it wasn’t 4th. 

[Green Lightning]

Short story is Edmunds is key to the McD/Frazier defense. The FO failed in getting a good DL to get the 4 man rush needed to sustain that D. Losing Edmunds means changing up the defensive scheme. I don't think Frazier has the will or the chops to do it. Maybe that's why they brought in Holcomb. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Dopey said:

About as integral as Milano. I still see him getting “Mossed” by Kelcey for the game winning TD in our playoff loss to them. 

Especially when Milano gets beat for a game winning td by Kelcey…it wasn’t 4th. 

 

 

Milano was the Bills best Defender for the playoffs and it's not even close.

[Royale with Cheese]

10 hours ago, iccrewman112 said:

fyi if he signs for 5 years for 30M fully guaranteed it’s generational wealth.

Not with the price of eggs these days.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

The market appears to be in the 15-20 range for Edmunds, in that case I'm out. 

[Doc Brown]

6 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

What was our pass defense while he was on the field during the PLAYOFFS.  I guarantee you it wasn't 4th.

The whole team sleep walked against the Bungles including our coaching staff.  He was crucial in the WC game though.  He was also a major reason we were able to get the 2nd seed.

 

I think he’s worth the investment given his age, freakish build, length, range, time in the system, and the major jump we were all waiting for this past season.  Get what you can for Oliver and let Poyer walk.  Focus the rest on rebuilding that o-line.

[DapperCam]

On 2/17/2023 at 12:05 PM, dpberr said:

I don't see any of these players being on the 2023 team.

 

I could see Crowder back on a cheap deal if the Bills liked what they saw from him before his injury. Reliable slot is still a hole. The rest I agree are goners.

On 2/17/2023 at 12:33 PM, TheFunPolice said:

This is very, very bad news for anyone who wants a real investment on offense. 

 

Edmunds is a pretty good LB, but will he command elite $$?

 

To anyone celebrating him leaving, expect yet another 1st round defense draft pick. Either S, LB, or good old DL. 

 

WR after round 4. OL we can do without because Allen can always run for his life, which is an "advantage" for us and part of his skillet apparently. 

 

 

The real investment on offense can be in the form of Edmunds cap $$$ being spent on offense.

[3rdand12]

On 2/17/2023 at 11:52 AM, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Replace with a cheaper option, someone like KC did with Nick Bolton. Use the money saved on offensive line and WR.

Nick Bolton / Yes please

[Ethan in Cleveland]

11 hours ago, Nitro said:

As many on Two Bills drive opine about Edmunds pro and con, his loss will impact this offense more than they realize.  His leaving opens a huge hole and there is no immediate solutions.  He has been inconsistent but his presence on the field alters passing games over the middle. This off season will be an interesting one to see the direction the Bills are going to go. 

His presence did nothing to get to the SuperBowl. Happy to see him go. 

Defense was non existent in the SuperBowl. 

All resources should go to the offense.