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Josh is morphing as a QB…has stopped running recklessly

Lenigmusx

By Lenigmusx
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Lenigmusx RFA

Lenigmusx

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In the aftermath of all the crazy events of the last month it would seem Josh’s game has changed. I think perhaps DaMar’s injury had more of an impact on Josh’s game than many are realizing. If you really go back and watch the play design against NE and Miami you will see almost zero QB counter bash and very little of the JA special that shreds a defense that is sitting on the coverage. I think perhaps being on that field in Cincy has effected his approach and rightfully so. However I also think it is one of the reasons for the increased and unnecessary home run approach. He has lost a safety valve in his own mind. It would seem prior to the last two weeks he has always viewed his own legs as a check down. It has been a very effective one. With the option limited it is an adjustment. That coupled with mediocre pass pro has create a void or weakness. The screen game could fill this and if we can see that at home Dorsey most definitely does. I just think it changes the way he reads the field but in the long run it will make him better. Fearless but smart… hopefully if he needs it he will be able to go to the well this Sunday though. 

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BRH All Pro

BRH

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Certain games you know you can win without Josh running all over the place.

 

Like the last two. 

 

But when it started to get tight last week, you saw him break off a pretty angry run.

 

He’ll run more this week. 

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Simon Says Veteran

Simon Says

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34 minutes ago, streetkings01 said:

He hasn’t stopped running recklessly…..Patriots and Dolphins kept 1-2 spies on him as soon as he gets out of the pocket they’re already running up and breaking down in front of him hence the reason the deep ball has been there the last 2 games.

Glad you posted this so I wouldn't have to. Pats and Dolphins know the Bills so well and tried to contain Josh in the pocket to limit his magic escapades. 

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Lenigmusx RFA

Lenigmusx

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41 minutes ago, streetkings01 said:

He hasn’t stopped running recklessly…..Patriots and Dolphins kept 1-2 spies on him as soon as he gets out of the pocket they’re already running up and breaking down in front of him hence the reason the deep ball has been there the last 2 games.

Perhaps but a spy and even keying on his running has not stopped him in the past… something changed in the approach. Maybe going over the top is what it is. 

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H2o Hall of Famer

H2o

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7 minutes ago, Lenigmusx said:

Perhaps but a spy and even keying on his running has not stopped him in the past… something changed in the approach. Maybe going over the top is what it is. 

When the spy/spies are actually in position to stop him, yeah, he's not going to be able to run. The fact that both teams were disciplined in this, as well as not getting too wide on their rushing lanes and in turn collapsing the pocket, has caused Josh to take some sacks or get tackled around the LOS. 

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Ga boy RFA

Ga boy

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1 hour ago, Ray Stonada said:

Interesting theory… sample size is too small to know if this is correct or if the game plan was different. 
 

If Josh starts to take checkdowns instantly when available for 5+ yards we are not stoppable as an offense. 

Truth.  I wanna see some check downs to #28 so he can burn baby burn!

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RunTheBall Veteran

RunTheBall

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A lot of teams are learning to limit Josh’s run’s. They can rush disciplined and contain because they are going to still get pressure with our below average O-line.

 

There is almost always a spy on Josh. So here’s a question for those smarter than me -

 

If you know the other team is going to have a guy saying on Josh all the time, there has to be a way to put that defender in conflict and take advantage of the fact that half is attention is away from his primary responsibility. If they put a guy in the middle of the field 7-10 yards from the line of scrimmage whose main purpose is to watch the QB then that has to open something else up, no? 

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Thurman#1 Hall of Famer

Thurman#1

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2 hours ago, Lenigmusx said:

In the aftermath of all the crazy events of the last month it would seem Josh’s game has changed. I think perhaps DaMar’s injury had more of an impact on Josh’s game than many are realizing. If you really go back and watch the play design against NE and Miami you will see almost zero QB counter bash and very little of the JA special that shreds a defense that is sitting on the coverage. I think perhaps being on that field in Cincy has effected his approach and rightfully so. However I also think it is one of the reasons for the increased and unnecessary home run approach. He has lost a safety valve in his own mind. It would seem prior to the last two weeks he has always viewed his own legs as a check down. It has been a very effective one. With the option limited it is an adjustment. That coupled with mediocre pass pro has create a void or weakness. The screen game could fill this and if we can see that at home Dorsey most definitely does. I just think it changes the way he reads the field but in the long run it will make him better. Fearless but smart… hopefully if he needs it he will be able to go to the well this Sunday though. 

 

 

IMO we haven't seen enough to be indicative of this.

 

Two games isn't statistically significant. Could be a game plan thing. Could be a spy-related thing as StreetKings suggested above. Could just be situational luck.

 

My guess is that he hasn't really changed his approach.

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wjag Veteran

wjag

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I don't think he has necessarliy stopped.  My sense is when the play is essential, Josh will attempt to run.  Miami baited him last week and he took the cheese.  I don't see any of the remaining teams electing to do that.  With every play essentially critical to advancing, I would expect Josh to be running more.

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JMM RFA

JMM

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I felt he did look a bit tentative in the pocket on Sunday and when he did try to take off he was caught. I think the ankle was bothering him a bit.  He's been spied for two years, and for two years he has run right around and through the spy. I'm hoping he is able to be full beast mode starting this week, also it's time to run more QB sweeps. Win or go home. 

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Straight Hucklebuck Veteran

Straight Hucklebuck

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1 minute ago, JMM said:

I felt he did look a bit tentative in the pocket on Sunday and when he did try to take off he was caught. I think the ankle was bothering him a bit.  He's been spied for two years, and for two years he has run right around and through the spy. I'm hoping he is able to be full beast mode starting this week, also it's time to run more QB sweeps. Win or go home. 

Dorsey has to remember QB designed runs inside the 10 instead of tight formations with one WR, Josh rolls to the side and there is no one to throw to. 

 

The 2nd and goal play in Cincinnati was awful.

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BillsVet All Pro

BillsVet

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I see people determining that Josh not running has something to do with his football intelligence increasing.  Perhaps in the game-plan process that was reinforced more, but I'll contend that, versus Miami, the Dolphins using 8 in the box in the first half was more a factor than anything else.  Then, when they transitioned to more zone in the second half Josh saw what he thought were passing opportunities and attacked that way.  

 

Josh running is what defenses want: they get a chance to put a hit on him and it means downfield they've mitigated his receiving options.  Because if I'm defending against Buffalo's offense, I'd rather get beat on a 10 yard scramble than a 20 yard pass completion.  

 

There is never 1 cause for something changing.   Typically there is a root cause with other contributing reasons for why something happens.  

 

 

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Dablitzkrieg Veteran

Dablitzkrieg

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3 hours ago, Lenigmusx said:

In the aftermath of all the crazy events of the last month it would seem Josh’s game has changed. I think perhaps DaMar’s injury had more of an impact on Josh’s game than many are realizing. If you really go back and watch the play design against NE and Miami you will see almost zero QB counter bash and very little of the JA special that shreds a defense that is sitting on the coverage. I think perhaps being on that field in Cincy has effected his approach and rightfully so. However I also think it is one of the reasons for the increased and unnecessary home run approach. He has lost a safety valve in his own mind. It would seem prior to the last two weeks he has always viewed his own legs as a check down. It has been a very effective one. With the option limited it is an adjustment. That coupled with mediocre pass pro has create a void or weakness. The screen game could fill this and if we can see that at home Dorsey most definitely does. I just think it changes the way he reads the field but in the long run it will make him better. Fearless but smart… hopefully if he needs it he will be able to go to the well this Sunday though. 

Lol, wait until Sunday.  He will be running quite a bit

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BillsShredder83 Veteran

BillsShredder83

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7 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Lol, wait until Sunday.  He will be running quite a bit

hopefully that ankles feeling better. we need him to be mobile in the pocket, i dont want those Greg Williams inspired scumbags getting anywhere near him. they were looking to knock him out before the game got called, and i dont mean the legit way of pressure and keep him uncomfortable. they looked like bountygate

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Boatdrinks Hall of Famer

Boatdrinks

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3 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Interestingly it also coincides with an ankle injury that has been on the injury report.   Josh will do whatever it takes to win.  I bet you see a lot more running this week.

Agree. If Josh has 50+ rushing yards the Bills get the W. There will be some Allen runs called on Sunday. 

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The Frankish Reich All Pro

The Frankish Reich

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2 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Lol, wait until Sunday.  He will be running quite a bit

Agreed. It's called "being smarter." You don't risk you body in a Week 2 blowout against the Titans (1 rushing attempt), but you do against KC when the top seed is (or so we thought) on the line (12). The last 3 games vs. KC: 11 rushes, 11 rushes, 12 rushes.

And the playoffs are different ...

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Rew Rookie

Rew

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People are way overthinking this.  We are a gameplan team (hence that some think we lack an identity).  We change our offense based on opponent historic tendencies and how they are playing us in the game.  Miami crowded the box, blitzed heavily, and left no coverage deep on more plays than any other defense this year.  The mantra "take what they give you" doesn't mean every throw is a checkdown, it means throw it (or run it) where they are not.  In this game the opponent was giving us anything 20+ yards downfield on most plays.  They weren't going to give Allen a chance with his legs, and they were clogging most hot routes and throwing lanes to the point of checkdowns being drive killers.  We "took what they gave us".  Our execution was decent, and if we were cleaner it could have been a game for the record books.

 

Don't read into it too much, we will look different against CIN, KC, and SF.

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Billever76 Veteran

Billever76

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6 hours ago, Lenigmusx said:

In the aftermath of all the crazy events of the last month it would seem Josh’s game has changed. I think perhaps DaMar’s injury had more of an impact on Josh’s game than many are realizing. If you really go back and watch the play design against NE and Miami you will see almost zero QB counter bash and very little of the JA special that shreds a defense that is sitting on the coverage. I think perhaps being on that field in Cincy has effected his approach and rightfully so. However I also think it is one of the reasons for the increased and unnecessary home run approach. He has lost a safety valve in his own mind. It would seem prior to the last two weeks he has always viewed his own legs as a check down. It has been a very effective one. With the option limited it is an adjustment. That coupled with mediocre pass pro has create a void or weakness. The screen game could fill this and if we can see that at home Dorsey most definitely does. I just think it changes the way he reads the field but in the long run it will make him better. Fearless but smart… hopefully if he needs it he will be able to go to the well this Sunday though. 

He is being overcoached not to run...I think it makes josh less effective... I think McDermott and his ultra safe conservative nature had problems with how daboll wanted Allen to play...daboll has turned Danny dimes into a josh allen clone and is probably COY ....hmmmmmm

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