NFL Week #15 - Fish at Buffalo - Post Game Thread

[The Wiz]

20 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

Can someone explain how the QBR is calculated, please?
 

Josh last night - 4 TD, 0 INT, 25/40 at 62.5% for 304, 77 Rushing at 7.7, sacked twice, QBR 54.4

Tua last night - 2 TD, 0 INT,  17/30 at 56.7% for 234, 7 Rushing at 7, sacked twice, QBR 54.0

 

Admittedly Josh had a couple of fumbles but would they have hurt is QBR to that extent? Mahomes threw three interceptions last week, had -3 for rushing yards, one less touchdown, sacked the same number of times yet got a QBR of 68.3.

I can explain it.

 

It's a ***** rating system.

 

That is all.

[gonzo1105]

A lot of times it’s not pretty but we’re 11-3 and we’re at worst going to finish 13-4 most likely. 
 

We are going to win the AFC East again and if we can get by the Bengals we will be the # 1 seed for the playoffs. We have won 5 in a row , 3 in a row vs division rivals and every team treats us and the Chiefs like it’s their Super Bowl. 

[BRH]

25 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

 

I'm still taking Josh Allen over him

no *****, really?

[RyanC883]

where did that run game come from the last drive?   Was great to see.  Did the snow impact miami stopping the run?  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

30 minutes ago, BernieBill said:

It's funny to see the negative reactions, as if the Bills had the game in hand the whole way, as if fans were not complaining all game long about the lack of defensive preparation ... San Francisco's defense dominated Miami, a horribly banged up Chargers defense dominated Miami ... and then the Bills defense performs the way it did last night ... Raheem Mostert looking like a Hall of Famer ... apparently some fans only look at the result and ignore the underlying problems

Some of us just like to win and don't have a pathological need to complain 

[Seventeen]

32 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

I have to eat some crow on Tua. I thought he was a bust but he honestly balled out. At this point it's not a fluke. He can throw down field and is not just a distributor.

 

I think he relies heavily on Waddle and Hill, but I could once say the same with Allen in regards to Diggs and Beasley. I think he's the second best QB in the division. I am not going to enjoy seeing him twice a year 

 

I'm still taking Josh Allen over him

 

He doesn't have the arm that Josh has and is not a threat to bust 45 yard runs. He may be the 2nd best QB in the division but that ain't saying much right now. 

[Niagara Bill]

27 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

I have to eat some crow on Tua. I thought he was a bust but he honestly balled out. At this point it's not a fluke. He can throw down field and is not just a distributor.

 

I think he relies heavily on Waddle and Hill, but I could once say the same with Allen in regards to Diggs and Beasley. I think he's the second best QB in the division. I am not going to enjoy seeing him twice a year 

 

I'm still taking Josh Allen over him

Why do you and many others refer to the Miami QB as Tua like he has earned the right like Shaq, or Kobe but refer to a far far far superior QB of the Bills as Allen or Josh Allen.

.

Even the great Dan Marino never earned that right. Few players in the world earn that reverence, certainly not today's Miami QB. 

[hemma]

Josh’s eventual career highlight reel will end up requiring 4 days of binge viewing.

[Seventeen]

Sorry, probably covered in the previous 30 pages but why did McDaniel wait until there were 39 seconds left to use his 2nd timeout  ?

[The Wiz]

4 minutes ago, hemma said:

Josh’s eventual career highlight reel will end up requiring 4 days of binge viewing.

And a lot of lotion.

 

[SoCal Deek]

6 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

Why do you and many others refer to the Miami QB as Tua like he has earned the right like Shaq, or Kobe but refer to a far far far superior QB of the Bills as Allen or Josh Allen.

.

Even the great Dan Marino never earned that right. Few players in the world earn that reverence, certainly not today's Miami QB. 

Okay….you start…try spelling his last name. 😉

[BritBill]

7 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

Sorry, probably covered in the previous 30 pages but why did McDaniel wait until there were 39 seconds left to use his 2nd timeout  ?

Too busy worrying about snowballs, icicles and the yeti hunting his players. 

[ArtVandalay]

8 hours ago, AlfaBill said:

You post inferred that we needed a DPI to win. In other words without it we wouldn’t have won. If another team gets a legit call to win, did they not earn it? Your post was stupid. Plain and simple. The only part worth anything was that there are things to clean up. 

Your first sentence is correct, the DPI was a massive contribution to the win (along with the sudden snow).

 

It's not stupid, it's plain and simple facts that describe the two key elements of the comeback win. 

 

When looking for a team to be a super bowl champ, you cant be reliant on weather and penalties... plain and simple. 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

11 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

Why do you and many others refer to the Miami QB as Tua like he has earned the right like Shaq, or Kobe but refer to a far far far superior QB of the Bills as Allen or Josh Allen.

.

Even the great Dan Marino never earned that right. Few players in the world earn that reverence, certainly not today's Miami QB. 

Dude, I'm saying Tua isn't a complete bust like I thought. 

 

Of course Allen is better, but I don't think it's crazy to identify that Tua has a gear above what Mac Jones and Zach Wilson/Mike White/Joe Flacco are offering our other division rivals 

 

 

 

 

[Coffeesforclosers]

11 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

Sorry, probably covered in the previous 30 pages but why did McDaniel wait until there were 39 seconds left to use his 2nd timeout  ?

 

He ***** up. 

[UKBillFan]

17 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

Why do you and many others refer to the Miami QB as Tua like he has earned the right like Shaq, or Kobe but refer to a far far far superior QB of the Bills as Allen or Josh Allen.

.

Even the great Dan Marino never earned that right. Few players in the world earn that reverence, certainly not today's Miami QB. 

I think it’s because people can’t spell his surname.

[ArtVandalay]

8 hours ago, JDubya76 said:

You can’t teach common sense and you can’t fix stupid. There is no fixing you.

It's honestly incredible people like you are so fragile to merely talk about a game. 

 

Great cliff hanger. Fact.

 

Penalty and weather the two key elements of the win.  Fact. 

 

Team out of sync still.  Fact.

 

Need to clean up stuff to win the SB. Fact.

 

The fact you take issue with any of that and feel the need to call it stupid does nothing other than reveal you have the emotional intelligence of a toddler. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Man watching the end of this game again on NFL network before the pre game starts. How big was that play Elam makes. You almost forget that Taron Johnson gives up that huge play down the sideline and the Dolphins are right there to take the lead. That 2nd down pass to Hill that Elam is all

over for a 3 yard loss might have saved this game. Can the guy just start and play an entire game next to White? It’s not as if Dane Jackson has been so good you can’t take him off the field. If anything it’s been the opposite. 27-24 the rest of the way. Cmon wake up here

Edited December 18, 2022 by Brianmoorman4jesus

[PaoloBillsFanFromItaly]

1 minute ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Man watching the end of this game again on NFL network before the pre game starts. How big was that play Elam makes. You almost forget that Taron Johnson gives up that huge play down the sideline and the Dolphins are right there to take the lead. That 2nd down pass to Hill that Elam is all

over for a 3 yard pass might have saved this game. Can the guy just start and play an entire game next to White? It’s not as if Dane Jackson has been so good you can’t take him off the field. If anything it’s been the opposite. 27-24 the rest of the way. Cmon wake up here

I am a big Elam supporter, but he must learn to tackle

[appoo]

Some day after thoughts here

 

1) Tre lost at least one step, if not more. With ACLs it can take 2 years to regain full explosion. Right now the Bills have one of the worst secondaries in the league 

 

2) Dorsey has a really tough job. He’s got an elite QB, a good set of skills players. If Allen had a decent OLije and this team might score 80% of its drives. But he has a really bad one, and how to manage this offense is complicated as *****.  Do you limit the routes and ask these guys to run mostly short stuff or do you trust Allen to be magical and continue to run the longer developing stuff, and get him to make absurd throws on the run after his protection fails after 2 seconds if not immediately?

3) the bills have one of the best front 7s in the league that’s being hamstrung by its corner play. The Phins have a decent OLine, but the Bills can still held Tua to almost 50% (17-30), and that’s because on a bunch of plays they got some pressure on him or the Bills linebackers took away easy throws - but those outside yards were there

 

4) fortunately for the Bills, no one else has the unique threats that stress the corners like the Dolphins present. They’ve somehow captured the two best deep threats in the league

5) the Bengals are flat out more talented than this roster. Gonna have to be on Allen

 

6) forget drafting WR. The Bills need to draft/FA picking a starting RT, LG, and another corner who’s a 4.3 - 4.4 guy and convert Tre to a nickel or safety, unless he regains speed this off-season. Think he can be an elite safety, but as a corner without his normal initial burst he’s just average at best. You fix the oline and think we’re fine at WR

Edited December 18, 2022 by appoo

[dollars 2 donuts]

My goodness, if things hold right now for the playoffs we are playing either the Titans or Ravens in Orchard Park for the the division round.

 

Oh yes please. HFA has its privileges. 
 

 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

1 minute ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

My goodness, if things hold right now for the playoffs we are playing either the Titans or Ravens in Orchard Park for the the division round.

 

Oh yes please. HFA has its privileges. 
 

 

Every year people try to down play home field. We’ll I’ll just say for THIS team, it’s importance is monumental. In Bills history, we almost never win a road playoff game and at home it’s the opposite. That’s all I’ll say for jinxing purposes 

[Ya Digg?]

5 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Your first sentence is correct, the DPI was a massive contribution to the win (along with the sudden snow).

 

It's not stupid, it's plain and simple facts that describe the two key elements of the comeback win. 

 

When looking for a team to be a super bowl champ, you cant be reliant on weather and penalties... plain and simple. 

So you’re saying the top 2 reasons why the Bills won last night was because of a DPI and the weather? Not Josh, not the running game finally having success on the final drive, not Gabe Davis playing well, not Dawson Knox having a good game…(should I keep going)

 

why do you intentionally continue to ignore what others are saying to you? Guess what-KC has holes in their game, the 49ers have a 7th round rookie steering for them, the Eagles rely on Hurts as much as the Bills rely on Allen. The point is no team is playing perfect and no team is going to play perfect.

 

You seem to ignore the good stuff in the wins and focus on the bad, so then if the Bills lose it’s going to give you a chance to say I told you so, as if that’s some moral victory 

[BearNorth]

3 minutes ago, appoo said:

4) fortunately for the Bills, no one else has the unique threats that stress the corners like the Dolphins present. They’ve somehow captured the two best deep threats in the league

 

I think Burrow, Chase, Higgins, and Boyd probably stress a defense even more than Tua, Waddle, & Hill.  Burrow is a more polished QB than Tua

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, wjag said:

The Morning After Pill:

 

1. That Josh Allen TD drive, you know the one, where he toted the rock all the way, was vintage Allen.  Finishes it with a TD pass to Knox and an aerial 2pt conversion.  Wow, just wow!!!!

2. TD passes to Morris, Hines and Cook..

3. Knox was a central figure in last nights game plan.

4. Miami running with Mostert was so effective.  Trying to understand why?  Were the Bills conceding the run to "shell" Hill and Waddle.

5. Say and think what you will about Tua, but the kid played great.  This can't play in cold weather knock isn't fair.  It wasn't him on the field the last 5 minutes that sent the Dolphins home with an L.

6. Cam Lewis with two brutal plays in Bills games.  First the 4th and 18 against the Vikes and then the destroying the kicker last night.

7. Miami ran well, threw well, kicked well and still went home with an L.

8. I'm still shocked that 90% of that game was played on a snow-free field.

9. Josh had many memorable plays last night.  That throw of 21 to Davis on 3rd and 17 might be the best of the game.

10. Singletary ran when they absolutely needed to run.

11.  Allen looked so damn comfortable when it started to snow.  I can see and hear the NFL music with him standing and throwing in the snow.

4. A lot of 2 deep it looked like, but I think it was a lot of Miami just owned the line on the right side.

 

It seemed to me like Daquon Jones had a tough game, and didn’t see much penetration from Oliver as well

[Niagara Bill]

13 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

Dude, I'm saying Tua isn't a complete bust like I thought. 

 

Of course Allen is better, but I don't think it's crazy to identify that Tua has a gear above what Mac Jones and Zach Wilson/Mike White/Joe Flacco are offering our other division rivals 

 

 

 

 

Not my point. He has not earned the right to be referred to by one name. There only a few people in the sporting world who have that reverence. 

But I agree with your position and comments.

[Chuck Schick]

5 minutes ago, appoo said:

Some day after thoughts here

 

1) Tre lost at least one step, if not more. With ACLs it can take 2 years to regain full explosion. Right now the Bills have one of the worst secondaries in the league 

 

Have you watched NFL games recently?  There are several teams with complete secondaries made up of back-ups and practice squad guys.

[appoo]

2 minutes ago, Chuck Schick said:

Have you watched NFL games recently?  There are several teams with complete secondaries made up of back-ups and practice squad guys.

Fair! 
 

The bills have a not good secondary. I’ll leave the comparisons out 

3 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

Not my point. He has not earned the right to be referred to by one name. There only a few people in the sporting world who have that reverence. 

But I agree with your position and comments.

I ain’t spelling that name out 

[ArtVandalay]

Just now, Ya Digg? said:

So you’re saying the top 2 reasons why the Bills won last night was because of a DPI and the weather? Not Josh, not the running game finally having success on the final drive, not Gabe Davis playing well, not Dawson Knox having a good game…(should I keep going)

 

why do you intentionally continue to ignore what others are saying to you? Guess what-KC has holes in their game, the 49ers have a 7th round rookie steering for them, the Eagles rely on Hurts as much as the Bills rely on Allen. The point is no team is playing perfect and no team is going to play perfect.

 

You seem to ignore the good stuff in the wins and focus on the bad, so then if the Bills lose it’s going to give you a chance to say I told you so, as if that’s some moral victory 

It was a great cliff hanger win. My very first sentence.  

 

It's honestly amazing how sensitive some of you people are to talking about the game.

 

KC or anyone else has nothing to do with this. This is about making sure the team is playing well enough and executing at a level to win the super bowl. 9-7 teams have won the super bowl because they were able to get their execution to that level for seasons end. 

 

Of course Allen took over as needed.  But the two key elements here were the sudden snow (weather) and a massive DPI on 3rd down that turned a 50 yard FG with 1 minute for Miami into a chip shot FG and us kneeing down the clock. 

 

If not for the snow and penalty,  it's very likely we lose that game. Relying on outside factors is not how you won a Super Bowl. 

 

It's no secret this team has not executed to their level since the bye week in October, I'm happy with wins but we also need to make sure this team is executing to a level to win the super bowl, that's the goal, no one should be buying a division champs hat this year, the goal is bigger than that. 

 

There should be no shame or issue in speaking to the level of execution on the team within the game. Especially if you claim to call yourself a fan. 

[BearNorth]

Just now, appoo said:

Fair! 
 

The bills have a not good secondary. I’ll leave the comparisons out 

We are missing a ProBowl player in Hyde, and Tre White is not 100%. Poyer is likely less than 100% due to multiple injuries.

 

[appoo]

4 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

4. A lot of 2 deep it looked like, but I think it was a lot of Miami just owned the line on the right side.

 

It seemed to me like Daquon Jones had a tough game, and didn’t see much penetration from Oliver as well

They ran a lot of stuff that kind of avoided/nullified the DTs. You gotta remember that McDaniel/Shannahan we’re pretty much the best run game designers in the league. 
 

Plus, the bills were often playing double high as you pointed. Bills weren’t gonna like giving up 8 yards a pop but they were clearly fine with giving up yards on the ground in order to try and nullify the pass game

[Ya Digg?]

10 minutes ago, appoo said:

Some day after thoughts here

 

1) Tre lost at least one step, if not more. With ACLs it can take 2 years to regain full explosion. Right now the Bills have one of the worst secondaries in the league 

 

2) Dorsey has a really tough job. He’s got an elite QB, a good set of skills players. If Allen had a decent OLije and this team might score 80% of its drives. But he has a really bad one, and how to manage this offense is complicated as *****.  Do you limit the routes and ask these guys to run mostly short stuff or do you trust Allen to be magical and continue to run the longer developing stuff, and get him to make absurd throws on the run after his protection fails after 2 seconds if not immediately?

3) the bills have one of the best front 7s in the league that’s being hamstrung by its corner play. The Phins have a decent OLine, but the Bills can still held Tua to almost 50% (17-30), and that’s because on a bunch of plays they got some pressure on him or the Bills linebackers took away easy throws - but those outside yards were there

 

4) fortunately for the Bills, no one else has the unique threats that stress the corners like the Dolphins present. They’ve somehow captured the two best deep threats in the league

5) the Bengals are flat out more talented than this roster. Gonna have to be on Allen

 

6) forget drafting WR. The Bills need to draft/FA picking a starting RT, LG, and another corner who’s a 4.3 - 4.4 guy and convert Tre to a nickel or safety, unless he regains speed this off-season. Think he can be an elite safety, but as a corner without his normal initial burst he’s just average at best. You fix the oline and think we’re fine at WR

Can you explain why the Bengals are flat out more talented? Receiver absolutely yes, where else do they have more talent?

 

also I’m not sure you can definitively say the dolphins have the 2 best deep threats in the league. There are a lot of really talented, fast receivers out there. Certainly a nightmare having 2 of the fastest guys in the league on the same team (and maybe I’m nitpicking) but I wouldn’t say those 2 are first and second in terms of being a deep threat

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

16 minutes ago, PaoloBillsFanFromItaly said:

I am a big Elam supporter, but he must learn to tackle

I’d need to see him playing consistently enough to feel that way. I almost never notice him on the field 

[JGMcD2]

8 minutes ago, appoo said:

 

The bills have a not good secondary. I’ll leave the comparisons out 

Seems a little counter intuitive? 
 

You’re only good or bad by comparison… 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

23 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

It's honestly incredible people like you are so fragile to merely talk about a game. 

 

Great cliff hanger. Fact.

 

Penalty and weather the two key elements of the win.  Fact. 

 

Team out of sync still.  Fact.

 

Need to clean up stuff to win the SB. Fact.

 

The fact you take issue with any of that and feel the need to call it stupid does nothing other than reveal you have the emotional intelligence of a toddler. 

you two need a room.

[BillsFan130]

6 minutes ago, appoo said:

They ran a lot of stuff that kind of avoided/nullified the DTs. You gotta remember that McDaniel/Shannahan we’re pretty much the best run game designers in the league. 
 

Plus, the bills were often playing double high as you pointed. Bills weren’t gonna like giving up 8 yards a pop but they were clearly fine with giving up yards on the ground in order to try and nullify the pass game

True, still disappointing to get gashed on the ground by Miami though as statistically they are one of the worst run teams in the league 

[freddyjj]

7 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

If not for the snow and penalty,

Maybe I missed something.   How did the snow affect the outcome here?  
 

And have not read entire thread but pretty sure from my end that McKenzie was interfered with on that long pass attempt.  

[eball]

My post-mortem:

Full disclosure: I was livid during the 3rd quarter last night.  I turned off my phone and went into my bedroom to watch the rest of the game in solitude.  The win was a feeling of immense relief.  Now, looking back, I have these thoughts.  First - Josh is the best player in the league.  Period.  Second - we miss Hyde in a huge way.  Hamlin is a gamer but misses far too many tackles.  Third - the Bills dominated the 4th quarter.  That tells me more about the makeup of the team than the pathetic display in the 3rd.  Fourth - it is indeed possible for other teams to have talent and play well, and that doesn’t mean the Bills aren’t prepared or are poorly coached.  Fifth - the last drive of the game was championship-caliber football, including Motor’s awareness to get down so the Bills would win on the last play of the game (hint: coaching).  Have a great Sunday, guys.  The icing on the cake would be a Houston miracle against KC.

 

Let’s Go, Buffalo!  17 and 3, BABY!!!!!!

 

[balln]

1 hour ago, PaoloBillsFanFromItaly said:

We won because of Josh Allen and some effort on the running game.

Elam is good to great in coverage but can't tackle for his life man.

27 made some great plays, got burned twice, on a double move by Paddle and right at the line by Hill, but can't complain. Hamlin is just a backup...

Outside running absolutely crushed us, I don't want to see Basham again on the field, he can't set the edge.

And tons of missed tackles.

Also lack of effort some time, runner seemed stop initially but got it on later efforts.

We must SWARM like the 49ers do.

I mean. We just don’t have the athletes to run the same schemes. Tre TRIED to jam at line. And COULDNT. Got torched as a result. But he had some nice PBRs. Hamlin dane and poyer are very slow and slow twitch athletes. Never seen multiple plays multiple games in the nfl where rbs / wrs and even kelce run away from them ! Milano hobbled but also misses tackles. Their entire team just misses tackles - which to me in the nfl just means they suck. Not good enough 
 

been saying it all year. A lot of their players are JAGs. Ppl are gushing over shaq. He was discarded by jets and phins like trash. He is a JAG. But relative to the well below average other guys (Aj and Basham) he’s our best. 
 

groot is ok. He’s quite limited. He’s not an elite pass rusher. He’s huge. But light / I thought last night was worst run def I’ve seen him. Only has a bull rush and zero other moves. He wins if qb holds ball forever. He doesn’t win right off the ball 

 

 

 

 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

4 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

Can you explain why the Bengals are flat out more talented? Receiver absolutely yes, where else do they have more talent?

 

also I’m not sure you can definitively say the dolphins have the 2 best deep threats in the league. There are a lot of really talented, fast receivers out there. Certainly a nightmare having 2 of the fastest guys in the league on the same team (and maybe I’m nitpicking) but I wouldn’t say those 2 are first and second in terms of being a deep threat

The bengals are the “alt take” flavor of the month. Everyone wants to be the smartest guy in the room by looking past the obvious. It’s not interesting enough to say the obvious best teams are the best teams. The bengals weren’t that good last year and got lucky. The raiders had them beat.  Until they beat KC this year nobody was even talking about them. It wouldn’t surprise me if they drop a game before they play us. I’m not saying they aren’t good but I think people need to pump the brakes on the brakes bengals a little.