NFL Week #15 - Fish at Buffalo - Post Game Thread

[KHAN]

Knox and Davis making a resurgence could be huge.

 

4 TD passes. 2 to tight ends, 2 to running backs.

 

Motor getting, important, tough, game winning drive yards.

 

Josh impersonating Super Man in crunch time again.

 

After being dominated in the third quarter after Morse went out. The O-Line found a way to give Josh some time, and open some holes for Motor in crunch time.

 

These are a few of my favorite things.

 

 

[Nextmanup]

32 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

Unless you are a hopeless diehard

This game was sh**

Reminds me of the Rams game; the list of things to complain about as a Bills fan is about 17 items long.  We did a LOT of really bad things...but found a way to win.  We've been doing this now for 7 or 8 games; I've lost count. 

 

If we can somehow do that to the end of the year, great!  My theory is this will not work when the competition gets good in the playoffs.  And at some point we are going to have to beat KC and Philadelphia too.  We will never beat either of those teams playing the way we have been playing.

 

The good news is we can flip the switch at any time (I'm waiting) and then none of this matters.

 

The key is playing our best for like 2 or 3 games at the end of the year.

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

6 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

it looked like a WIN. 
 

also looked like most snow games snowballs fly. Why is it an issue today?  

I’m confused by that as well…people are making it seem like it’s never happened before but it happens every snow game.

 

I’ve never seen a coach complain about it, especially a coach with a laughably huge early season home field advantage of his own 

[Cray51]

Dolphins this year are our Patriots of last year.  
 

lost the first game in tough conditions

 win the second game close where the other team played hard

 

 the thing about playing teams three times, the better team tends to come out ahead.  The bills are the better team.  If we play them in the playoffs, I expect we win by a larger margin

[FLFan]

21 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’ve NEVER seen a whinier fan base following a loss. The takeaway from them was “the refs.”

That may be true.  I am also wondering this morning after seeing the incredible hot takes on this forum if there is any whinier fan base after a win.

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Our opponents seem to have no issue getting their WR1 touches.

Diggs had more targets (9) than anyone else. He also 3rd in the entire league in average targets per game. 

Edited December 18, 2022 by YoloinOhio

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, KHAN said:

Knox and Davis making a resurgence could be huge.

 

4 TD passes. 2 to tight ends, 2 to running backs.

 

Motor getting, important, tough, game winning drive yards.

 

Josh impersonating Super Man in crunch time again.

 

After being dominated in the third quarter after Morse went out. The O-Line found a way to give Josh some time, and open some holes for Motor in crunch time.

 

These are a few of my favorite things.

 

 

Knox drops are frustrating, but he is a game breaker when our offense gets him going vertical.  
 

Not many Tight Ends in the league move like him. 
 

Even with the two drops, he made our offense look dangerous again last night. 

[Billsfan1972]

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I’m sure it’s frustrating watching other guys drop passes, not run the correct routes, not execute plays and then not get force fed the ball if you’re an elite WR. 
 

When guys are executing, he definitely doesn’t have that attitude. 
 

I get it … but at the same time, McKenzie was more open than Diggs on the play that triggered it… Allen just overthrew it on the run. 

Regardless a hold was called on that play which would have negated any catch.

[GoBills808]

24 minutes ago, muppy said:

I was talking about this to hubby last night. PLEASE Stefon Please don't be the guy that thinks he is the Only man who can help our team win. It's just not the kind of thing you want to begin to grow and fester on the TEAM. Hear me bro TEAM. They Love you. You'll get your touches. 

Diggs can do or say whatever he wants

 

He and Allen are the only ones on offense worth a ***** and they know it

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

16 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Oh, we are BRUTAL. This is beyond us. Usually you see a mix of excuses and “the better team one.” The fins fans, universally, believe that they were robbed by the refs. 

Then I'm not sure what the ***** they were watching 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

23 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’ve NEVER seen a whinier fan base following a loss. The takeaway from them was “the refs.”

the irony is that they should be blaming their own coach. They lost because the boy genius hipster McDaniel decided to stop running Mostert when they got inside the 10-yard line. Had to settle for 2 FGs. 

[Bermuda Triangle]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

Diggs had more targets (9) than anyone else 

Targets = /= touches.

 

Hill had 13 targets.  Look how many touches Wilson, St. Brown and Cooper got as opposed to Diggs, in the last 3 games.  It's become a trend.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

20 minutes ago, Mango said:

I thought the Bills got a lot of favorable calls honestly. I think we would have done the same had things been reversed. 

Orly? Which ones 

[Low Positive]

3 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

the irony is that they should be blaming their own coach. They lost because the boy genius hipster McDaniel decided to stop running Mostert when they got inside the 10-yard line. Had to settle for 2 FGs. 

His clock management at the end was pretty bad too.

[jahnyc]

Some quick observations. 

 

1.  The Bills have won 11 games and are on their way to the playoffs again and another division crown.  The team is well coached, has a strong front office, and is blessed with an amazing QB, who also is a fit in terms of personality and demeanor for the franchise.

2.  We lack speed at WR and RB.  Cook seems to have some quickness, but he does not seem to play fast.  Miami has skill players on offense that play fast and are fast (Hill, Waddle and Mostert).  The Bills need a WR that will stretch the field.

3.  Our reserves/back-ups have been somewhat disappointing, except on the DL.  It may be unfair to be critical about this since very few (if any) NFL teams have adequate depth at this point of the season, or have players that can step-in and play at a quality starter level, but the play of back-ups in our secondary and o-line has not been good.  Jaquan Johnson has played poorly, Hamlin's play has been inconsistent, and Terell Bernard isn't ready at this point at LB (which required us to sign Klein).  On the o-line, I have a feeling that Q, our top reserve, has been playing through injuries, which has impacted his overall play.

4.  Our rookies have not had the impact that we were expecting after a strong pre-season.  Elam has deficiencies in tackling ability, Shakir has disappeared for some reason, Cook seems to be improving after a slow start to the season and Bernard does not seem ready for a significant role on defense at this point.  I think this draft class will turn out to be an above average group, but it will take time.

5.  Agree with posters who think the o-line needs to be upgraded.

6.  Kind of nice that former players want to come back and play for the Bills.  Shows the team culture and appeal of the Buffalo area is strong.

7.  Josh is awesome and makes this team a top contender.

 

[Billsfan1972]

2 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

the irony is that they should be blaming their own coach. They lost because the boy genius hipster McDaniel decided to stop running Mostert when they got inside the 10-yard line. Had to settle for 2 FGs. 

The Bills too were lucky they dropped a td pass.

 

One thing the Bills have been good at is defending first and goal inside tge 5.

 

The issue is allowing them to get there.

[muppy]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Diggs can do or say whatever he wants

 

He and Allen are the only ones on offense worth a ***** and they know it

wow. That's quite a statement,  I think it's baloney but you do you

[Bermuda Triangle]

1 hour ago, appoo said:

Some day after thoughts here

 

1) Tre lost at least one step, if not more. With ACLs it can take 2 years to regain full explosion. Right now the Bills have one of the worst secondaries in the league 

 

2) Dorsey has a really tough job. He’s got an elite QB, a good set of skills players. If Allen had a decent OLije and this team might score 80% of its drives. But he has a really bad one, and how to manage this offense is complicated as *****.  Do you limit the routes and ask these guys to run mostly short stuff or do you trust Allen to be magical and continue to run the longer developing stuff, and get him to make absurd throws on the run after his protection fails after 2 seconds if not immediately?

3) the bills have one of the best front 7s in the league that’s being hamstrung by its corner play. The Phins have a decent OLine, but the Bills can still held Tua to almost 50% (17-30), and that’s because on a bunch of plays they got some pressure on him or the Bills linebackers took away easy throws - but those outside yards were there

 

4) fortunately for the Bills, no one else has the unique threats that stress the corners like the Dolphins present. They’ve somehow captured the two best deep threats in the league

5) the Bengals are flat out more talented than this roster. Gonna have to be on Allen

 

6) forget drafting WR. The Bills need to draft/FA picking a starting RT, LG, and another corner who’s a 4.3 - 4.4 guy and convert Tre to a nickel or safety, unless he regains speed this off-season. Think he can be an elite safety, but as a corner without his normal initial burst he’s just average at best. You fix the oline and think we’re fine at WR

Agreed with all but #6.  IMO, we do need a WR, pretty badly.  

[SCBills]

6 minutes ago, Cray51 said:

Dolphins this year are our Patriots of last year.  
 

lost the first game in tough conditions

 win the second game close where the other team played hard

 

 the thing about playing teams three times, the better team tends to come out ahead.  The bills are the better team.  If we play them in the playoffs, I expect we win by a larger margin

Agreed .. However, the Dolphins/Tua impressed me last night.   Pats never really impressed me last year. 
 

I did NOT see that offensive performance in the cold coming.   They did look a bit shook when the snow came down..  Hit a jump ball but then short circuited. 
 

We have the better defense, but last night was NOT a good performance by Frazier’s group at all. 
 

Dolphins have the better offensive talent.. might be behind only SF/Philly in terms of talent, but as we saw last night… Elite QB’s are worth their weight in gold… and we have the elite of the elite at QB. 
 

Edited December 18, 2022 by SCBills

[DCbillsfan]

8 minutes ago, slipkid said:

Great win! I have very little tk add about that.

 

But this needs to be said and probably doesn’t need its own thread. Can we stop now with the sideline coach “interviews” to start the second and third quarters?

We’re all dumber for having to hear them.

Actually I loved hearing McDaniel splain away why giving up a TD right before half wasn't a big deal.  Still a one score game.  Then he goes for 2 PT conversion early in 3rd qtr and fails.  Cheap entertainment.

[Billsfan1972]

Just now, FrenchConnection said:

His clock management at the end was pretty bad too.

I don't think there was much they could do having only two timeouts and the Bills moving the ball. It was going to be a field goal at the end of the game regardless.

[muppy]

2 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Orly? Which ones 

In the first half I recall at least One defensive PI that could have been called for starters

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Orly? Which ones 

I'm sure people are focused on the PI call at the end. But I thought that was a Brady-like savvy move from Josh. He saw the contact and instead of just throwing the ball away he put it in a spot where it was plausably catchable but only McKenzie could make a play. His royal Tomness has perfected this art. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, muppy said:

In the first half I recall at least One defensive PI that could have been called for starters

Subjective. This is why I try not to complain about officiating: they're universally awful 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Just now, Billsfan1972 said:

The Bills too were lucky they dropped a td pass.

 

One thing the Bills have been good at is defending first and goal inside tge 5.

 

The issue is allowing them to get there.

not entirely lucky, IMO— catching a low cold ball like that isn’t easy. In fact, I noticed that receivers for both teams were bobbling a lot of the catches they made (Hill, almost every one).

 

That’s why you run down there! Dolphins had 3rd and 1 inside 10, and threw it (sack); and then second and goal at the 4 and threw it twice. The one time

they decided to keep running down there, they scored on that Ahmad TD. 
 

if I were a fins fan, I would be mad first at McDaniel! He lost them the game by being too cute. 

[AlfaBill]

2 hours ago, ArtVandalay said:

Your first sentence is correct, the DPI was a massive contribution to the win (along with the sudden snow).

 

It's not stupid, it's plain and simple facts that describe the two key elements of the comeback win. 

 

When looking for a team to be a super bowl champ, you cant be reliant on weather and penalties... plain and simple. 

Dude. They’re 11-3. Get it? 

[Billsfan1972]

3 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

not entirely lucky, IMO— catching a low cold ball like that isn’t easy. In fact, I noticed that receivers for both teams were bobbling a lot of the catches they made (Hill, almost every one).

 

That’s why you run down there! Dolphins had 3rd and 1 inside 10, and threw it (sack); and then second and goal at the 4 and threw it twice. The one time

they decided to keep running down there, they scored on that Ahmad TD. 
 

if I were a fins fan, I would be mad first at McDaniel! He lost them the game by being too cute. 

Against the Bills, easier to score from 12 yds then it is from 2 to 3.

 

The ball was right where I was supposed to be the receiver dropped it. We just said the same thing if it was Josh. And would have had a field day if it was Mackenzie or Davis dropping it.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Against the Bills, easier to score from 12 yds then it is from 2 to 3.

 

The ball was right where I was supposed to be the receiver dropped it. We just said the same thing if it was Josh. And would have had a field day if it was Mackenzie or Davis dropping it.

You seem sad 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

13 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Agreed .. However, the Dolphins/Tua impressed me last night.   Pats never really impressed me last year. 
 

I did NOT see that offensive performance in the cold coming.   They did look a bit shook when the snow came down..  Hit a jump ball but then short circuited. 
 

We have the better defense, but last night was NOT a good performance by Frazier’s group at all. 
 

Dolphins have the better offensive talent.. might be behind only SF/Philly in terms of talent, but as we saw last night… Elite QB’s are worth their weight in gold… and we have the elite of the elite at QB. 
 

I don’t really understand the way the dolphins are viewed.  Their team is absolutely stacked on paper, trading for tyreek is a win now move.  People seem to view them as surprising underdogs but really they’ve been disappointing imo.  
 

offense took a big step forward, defense took a big step back despite trading for Chubb and making some other moves.  They’re really not far ahead of where Flores had them as far as overall team goes it’s just that offense is way more exciting than defense. 
 

if they miss the playoffs it is an enormous  failure 

Edited December 18, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[GoBills808]

13 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Orly? Which ones 

I would also like to know this

[BlazinBill]

18 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Our opponents seem to have no issue getting their WR1 touches.

But do our opponents also throw to 9 people and spread the wealth- fact is for multiple weeks all we did was throw to Diggs - dude has 99 receptions after a few weeks of not getting more than 5- had to get other people involved and show more on film and make other teams game plan for more-atleast that's my take

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I don’t really understand the way the dolphins are viewed.  Their team is absolutely stacked on paper, trading for tyreek is a win now move.  People seem to view them as surprising underdogs but really they’ve been disappointing imo.  
 

offense took a big step forward, defense took a big step back despite trading for Chubb and making some other moves.  They’re really not far ahead of where Flores had them as far as overall team goes it’s just that offense is way more exciting than defense. 

Yup.  Offensive talent around Tua is absurd.   On defense, they have Howard and Holland in the secondary, with a (on paper) talented DL.

 

End of the day though… when games get real, this isn’t the NFC where you can build a super team around solid QB play.   Your QB will have to play elite QB’s in big games .. frequently. 

[somnus00]

12 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Diggs can do or say whatever he wants

 

He and Allen are the only ones on offense worth a ***** and they know it

I think it's clear that Diggs just wants to win. He's not mad about touches or stats. I love his fight.

[Bermuda Triangle]

1 minute ago, BlazinBill said:

But do our opponents also throw to 9 people and spread the wealth- fact is for multiple weeks all we did was throw to Diggs - dude has 99 receptions after a few weeks of not getting more than 5- had to get other people involved and show more on film and make other teams game plan for more-atleast that's my take

Last week, both the Jets and Bills had 9 players with receptions.

In the Turkey Bowl, both the Lions and Bills had 7 players with receptions.

Against Cleveland, the Browns had 7 players with receptions, and the Bills, 4 (!!!)

[Beck Water]

31 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I’m sure it’s frustrating watching other guys drop passes, not run the correct routes, not execute plays and then not get force fed the ball if you’re an elite WR.

 

Can you provide examples of this happening when Diggs has had his frustration fits?  Spoiler: you can't.

 

For one thing, even if that is, in fact, what's happening when Diggs is having these fits: in the moment, he is not "watching" it.  He is minding his own store and running his own routes then reacting.  He has no idea if the other receiver just dropped the ball, was interfered with, caught a pass that was ruled incomplete, or the DB just made a good PD.  He's not watching replays on the big screen and then having a fit - he is open, he knows he's open, and he's reacting immediately because he was open and not targeted and he thinks he should be. 

 

That's "Me Ball", not "We Ball".

 

31 minutes ago, SCBills said:

When guys are executing, he definitely doesn’t have that attitude. 

 

Allen was 16 of 23 and the Bills were 5 of 6 on 3rd down conversions in the first half with 3 TDs.  The Bills were executing in the 1st half.

 

At the point where Diggs had his hissy, the Bills had just driven from their own 25 to the Mia 33 in 4 plays.  Guys were executing.  The one who just missed catching a pass was Diggs himself, but that wouldn't have mattered because of OH call.  The "hissy" play didn't matter because of OH.

 

Diggs is not just some selfless team guy who reacts like that only when his WR buds screw up and he could save the day.  That doesn't match what we actually see.

 

31 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I get it … but at the same time, McKenzie was more open than Diggs on the play that triggered it… Allen just overthrew it on the run. 

 

I think Diggs would have eventually been more open, but as you note, Allen didn't have time.

Edited December 18, 2022 by Beck Water

[Realist]

3 hours ago, BernieBill said:

It's funny to see the negative reactions, as if the Bills had the game in hand the whole way, as if fans were not complaining all game long about the lack of defensive preparation ... San Francisco's defense dominated Miami, a horribly banged up Chargers defense dominated Miami ... and then the Bills defense performs the way it did last night ... Raheem Mostert looking like a Hall of Famer ... apparently some fans only look at the result and ignore the underlying problems

As a fan, the result is what’s important. I don’t have to figure out the problems, coaching staff worries about that.

[Beck Water]

3 minutes ago, somnus00 said:

I think it's clear that Diggs just wants to win. He's not mad about touches or stats. I love his fight.

 

I'm sure he wants to win, but he's also 3rd in the league in receptions and yards right now - with Tyreek Hill, #2, ahead of him, on the opposite side of the ball.  I think it's highly naive to think he "just wants to win" and doesn't care about touches or stats.  If he "just wants to win", he should be happy when Josh throws a completion short or hands the ball off, and we move the chains.

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, somnus00 said:

I think it's clear that Diggs just wants to win. He's not mad about touches or stats. I love his fight.

Yes correct

 

It's him and Allen on offense and only one of them is required to hide his frustration as the face of the franchise

[AlfaBill]

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Can you provide examples of this happening when Diggs has had his frustration fits?  Spoiler: you can't.

 

For one thing, even if that is, in fact, what's happening when Diggs is having these fits, he is not "watching" it.  He is minding his own store and running his own routes.  He has no idea if the other receiver just dropped the ball, was interfered with, caught a pass that was ruled incomplete, or the DB just made a good PD.  He's not watching replays on the big screen and then having a fit - he is open, he knows he's open, and he's reacting because he was open and not targeted.  That's "Me Ball", not "We Ball".

 

 

Allen was 16 of 23 and the Bills were 5 of 6 on 3rd down conversions in the first half with 3 TDs.  The Bills were executing in the 1st half.

 

At the point where Diggs had his hissy, the Bills had just driven from their own 25 to the Mia 33 in 4 plays.  Guys were executing.  The one who just missed catching a pass was Diggs himself, but that wouldn't have mattered because of OH call.  The "hissy" play didn't matter because of OH.

 

Diggs is not just a selfless team guy who reacts like that only when his WR buds screw up.  That doesn't match what we actually see.

 

 

I think Diggs would have eventually been more open, but Allen didn't have time.

Yup. They should get rid of Diggs. He’s a diva. 👎

Edited December 18, 2022 by AlfaBill

[GoBills808]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

I'm sure he wants to win, but he's also 3rd in the league in receptions and yards right now - with Tyreek Hill, #2, ahead of him, on the opposite side of the ball.  I think it's highly naive to think he "just wants to win" and doesn't care about touches or stats.  If he "just wants to win", he should be happy when Josh throws a completion short or hands the ball off, and we move the chains.

Diggs is happy when those things happen

 

He was the first guy sliding through the snow into Bass when the kick went in