Anybody Concerned About Our Defensive Backfield?

[Royale with Cheese]

Definitely concerned about our safety position.  Its been hurting us for years. 

[BarleyNY]

3 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

The sky isn’t falling.  Our Safeties were just named 1st and 2nd team all pros, have one of the best Nickel CB’s in the league, and reports of Tre’s demise are largely over reported.  He may be out a few games, but we didn’t have him for the last four games of last year nor the playoffs.  Dane did just fine.  Bedford and Elam will be fine.  We don’t face KC until week 6.  
 

The Ravens were the 32nd rated passing offense last year, and we upgraded our run defense with Settle, Jones, and Phillips.  Oh and we have this wrecking crew of a DE named Von.

 

I know we hoped Tre would be there for the opener, but hope is not lost.

I don’t think anyone said that the sky is falling, just that there is reason for concern.  The addition of Miller is certainly where I expect improvement to come from, especially playoff Miller. He seemed to throttle back last regular season with the Rams, then opened it up for the playoffs.

 

I wouldn’t read too much into the games with out Tre last season. We won the ones against Zach Wilson, Mac Jones (2), Cam Newton and Matt Ryan. We lost close ones to Tom Brady  and Mahomes, giving up 33 and 42. We don’t need a healthy Tre to beat Wilson or Jones, but he’d sure help against the top QBs. 
 

The backups and youth at S and CB are at best unproven. All is not lost to be sure, but there’s enough uncertainty to make me concerned. 

[corta765]

No

[ddaryl]

NO!

[TheBrownBear]

Honestly, I can understand the concern, but I don't share it.  Our backfield survived pretty well (until KC) with Wallace and Jackson starting last year.  I think Benford/Elam can give us Levi-level play or something close to it, and we should still be seeing incremental improvements from Taron Johnson and Dane - they are still young dudes.  I think our CBs should be competent, and I expect our star safeties will be ready to go by the start of the season.  I think this is already a solid to above-average group, that can go to a dominant position group if and when Tre White comes back (healthy).

[Irv]

I want some of the Kool-Aid you guys are chugging.  

[billybrew1]

13 hours ago, Irv said:

I'm a little worried.  Both Safety's are banged up and are not that young.  We have White out for who knows how long.  He might come back less than 100%.    We might be starting a rookie CB on one side.  The other CB doesn't have a lot of experience.  Just in our division, we make fun of Tua here a lot, but Waddle, Gisecki, and Hill are no jokes.   How will we defend Kupp?  Nervous.  

Maybe the first few games things might get squirrely…but our coaches will be sure to give them what they can do…

This is, unequivocally, a Super Bowl roster and the secondary is going to be a huge strength of this team once they settle in…

[artmalibu]

The Bills should not need to blitz to get pressure, so they can have one more in coverage to level the playing field....

[machine gun kelly]

2 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

I don’t think anyone said that the sky is falling, just that there is reason for concern.  The addition of Miller is certainly where I expect improvement to come from, especially playoff Miller. He seemed to throttle back last regular season with the Rams, then opened it up for the playoffs.

 

I wouldn’t read too much into the games with out Tre last season. We won the ones against Zach Wilson, Mac Jones (2), Cam Newton and Matt Ryan. We lost close ones to Tom Brady  and Mahomes, giving up 33 and 42. We don’t need a healthy Tre to beat Wilson or Jones, but he’d sure help against the top QBs. 
 

The backups and youth at S and CB are at best unproven. All is not lost to be sure, but there’s enough uncertainty to make me concerned. 

Barley, good points.  The flip side is we should have Dane, Taron, Poyer, and Hyde.  The wildcard is simply Elam or Bedford and Elam will probably get it.

 

The Rams are a test, but to you’re point are the Titans and Ravens really a test.  Until Tua proves hes for real even with Hill, I am reserved in judgment they are a threat.

 

KC is our first real threat.  That’s why that week is critical.

1 hour ago, TheBrownBear said:

Honestly, I can understand the concern, but I don't share it.  Our backfield survived pretty well (until KC) with Wallace and Jackson starting last year.  I think Benford/Elam can give us Levi-level play or something close to it, and we should still be seeing incremental improvements from Taron Johnson and Dane - they are still young dudes.  I think our CBs should be competent, and I expect our star safeties will be ready to go by the start of the season.  I think this is already a solid to above-average group, that can go to a dominant position group if and when Tre White comes back (healthy).

To you’re point Bear, we’ve been a top 3 pass defense for almost five years.  It’s our run defense that has been mediocre, and Beane improved that in the middle and outside.

[BarleyNY]

8 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Barley, good points.  The flip side is we should have Dane, Taron, Poyer, and Hyde.  The wildcard is simply Elam or Bedford and Elam will probably get it.

 

The Rams are a test, but to you’re point are the Titans and Ravens really a test.  Until Tua proves hes for real even with Hill, I am reserved in judgment they are a threat.

 

KC is our first real threat.  That’s why that week is critical.

That’s all fair. I’m not worried about winning the division. If we don’t, then something very unfortunate or unforeseen has happened. My concerns are how tough the AFC is this year. That #1 seed and bye will be huge as there will likely be 7 very good teams in the playoffs for the AFC. Problems in the secondary could keep us from getting that bye.

 

There also is what that DB squad means in the playoffs. There likely won’t be any easy games or easy QBs in the playoffs (maybe Tannehill, Tua or an old Ryan in the WC round). Still, it’ll be a tough road and I think we need our secondary in good form to get that ring.

[Bill from NYC]

I am very worried.

 

We didn't put enough emphasis on the secondary in the 2022 draft.

[Southern_Bills]

I think if it drags on, maybe. 3 weeks before the season starts? Not so much.

 

If it gets to week 8 and thinks are still looking bad, yeah hit the button. Until then it's just playing into form like every NFL team does every year.

[teef]

Oh Irv!

[machine gun kelly]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

I am very worried.

 

We didn't put enough emphasis on the secondary in the 2022 draft.

Bill we moved up in the 1st round, and took a 6th RD pick in the draft.  We took Dane last year, traded back to get Tre in 2017.  Huh?

 

not picking on you, but yes we did.  Now we have to see it play out.  That’s the crappy thing about drafts as you don’t know for at least two years of you made the right pics.

[Big Blitz]

15 hours ago, gobills404 said:

Unles we’re playing Patrick Mahomes or Tyreek Hill in the playoffs then I’ll never be worried about our pass defense

 

 

Burrow and Herbert are the only 2 offenses in the entire NFL I'm worried about playing.  At the moment with no Tre.  Good to great olines (Bengals will be significantly better) that can beat you running it or throwing it to elite weapons.  

 

If we hadn't revamped the D line I'd throw the Colts and Ravens in there but I can't.   

[Captain_Quint]

My expectation is that our boundary corners will struggle early in the year (Dane and Elam) but will slowly come into form. The offense (as it has proven in the past) will carry us while they figure it out and it could lead to some shootouts early in the year. I expect at least 1 or 2 Def holding calls/illegal contact/pass interference every game from the rookie (which is ok). 

 

But by season end, I think our defense will be galvanized and will be one of the best in the league when it's all said and done, including the secondary. 

[Rubes]

46 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Bill we moved up in the 1st round, and took a 6th RD pick in the draft.  We took Dane last year, traded back to get Tre in 2017.  Huh?

 

not picking on you, but yes we did.  Now we have to see it play out.  That’s the crappy thing about drafts as you don’t know for at least two years of you made the right pics.

 

sarcasm, dude.

 

[FilthyBeast]

16 hours ago, Irv said:

I'm a little worried.  Both Safety's are banged up and are not that young.  We have White out for who knows how long.  He might come back less than

100%.    We might be starting a rookie CB on one side.  The other CB doesn't have a lot of experience.  Just in our division, we make fun of Tua here a lot, but Waddle, Gisecki, and Hill are no jokes.   How will we defend Kupp?  Nervous.  

 

The lack of awareness in adequately addressing the DB position for a team with SB aspirations is downright pathetic. Drafting one in the first round is great on the surface but the schedule is very unforgiving this year and I fear Elam's long term development could be ruined if he struggles early which is very likely

 

Beane and McD love playing 'the smartest guy in the room' card but now with a certain punter situation combined with this and a very dark cloud is hanging over the start of the season less than 2 weeks from now.

[Scott7975]

2 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

The lack of awareness in adequately addressing the DB position for a team with SB aspirations is downright pathetic. Drafting one in the first round is great on the surface but the schedule is very unforgiving this year and I fear Elam's long term development could be ruined if he struggles early which is very likely

 

Beane and McD love playing 'the smartest guy in the room' card but now with a certain punter situation combined with this and a very dark cloud is hanging over the start of the season less than 2 weeks from now.

 

Oh look more fearmongering.

[Yawning Frog]

[Dopey]

Nah.

[boater]

You're kicking a bee hive with that post. The overconfident are aplenty on this board. They don't like dissenters.

 

Yeah the backfield is weak. And, no, McDermott magic won't overcome that.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

18 hours ago, PetermansRedemption said:

The absolute least position I worry about in a McDermott coached team. 

Sure worked out in the last 13 seconds in the Divisional round. 🤷‍♂️ Just playing devils advocate

[PetermansRedemption]

6 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Sure worked out in the last 13 seconds in the Divisional round. 🤷‍♂️ Just playing devils advocate

It also got us there with a ragtag group of corners. 

[Floydboy12]

Not overly concerned due to coaching staffs ability with secondary players. For the same reason, I thought drafting corner in the first round was a mistake. 

[Daniel from az]

I think they have fortified the defense particularly the pass rush...that will reduce pressure on CB's.....i have followed the Bills since I was a child and have been there since the beginning....we have a special team this year.

 

Edited August 26, 2022 by Daniel from az

[3rdand12]

20 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

So I take it this is the latest worry, concern, fear, we are doomed, may as well just concede the whole bloody season right now, thread, why do folk get worked up over this stuff? Damn near every pundit / talking head out there thinks we are the favorite to win it all, yikes, some of y’all need a 🍸 & a 🚬 desperately, not to mention some “time” with your important other…, 

 

Go Bills!!!

 

well phrased  "important other time "  lol
 Frazier get no credit for this defense it seems.
 our depth is pretty good from front to back.
But the scheme is what makes it happen, and the adjustments made for a players weaknesses and strengths are an ongoing Coaches work.
 Not Having Tre means the Opposing offense with be testing the boundary and sidelines early and often cuz Hyde will make the call for the middle coverage.
 and the right calls are what make the difference.

Love our Depth going into this season.

 Go Bills 

 

2 hours ago, boater said:

You're kicking a bee hive with that post. The overconfident are aplenty on this board. They don't like dissenters.

 

Yeah the backfield is weak. And, no, McDermott magic won't overcome that.

I have to disagree.
 But please elaborate why they seem weak at this point 98 days or so from Rams  

[3rdand12]

58 minutes ago, Daniel from az said:

I think they have fortified the defense particularly the pass rush...that will reduce pressure on CB's.....i have followed the Bills since I was a child and have been there since the beginning....we have a special team this year.

 

Fact is that  all 11 need to function reasonably well AND be in tune. No small task
I do Expect the front will be making a difference in how the Back looks this season.
And my suspicion is that the Back end will look real good this year.

 Go Bills !!

[97bills]

10 hours ago, artmalibu said:

The Bills should not need to blitz to get pressure, so they can have one more in coverage to level the playing field....

This is what I think us winning a super bowl comes down too. Our D line we’ve invested every year up front it’s time to show up. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

9 hours ago, PetermansRedemption said:

It also got us there with a ragtag group of corners. 

Yes, the CBs held their own despite the Tre White injury and lack of pass rush. I’ll give you that, but having an all pro Safety tandem over the top certainly helps. I wouldn’t say our rag tag group of corners got us anywhere. It was Josh Allen being a straight demon on the field. They did their job enough not to be a complete liability (well, until you know…) 

 

On 8/25/2022 at 9:00 PM, Irv said:

I'm a little worried.  Both Safety's are banged up and are not that young.  We have White out for who knows how long.  He might come back less than 100%.    We might be starting a rookie CB on one side.  The other CB doesn't have a lot of experience.  Just in our division, we make fun of Tua here a lot, but Waddle, Gisecki, and Hill are no jokes.   How will we defend Kupp?  Nervous.  

You would be pretty dumb not to be at least a little bit concerned so not sure why all the hate on your post. So many questions regarding Whites injury. Beane did the smartest thing by drafting Elam. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by ChronicAndKnuckles

[Dr.Sack]

Get to QB, and stop the run.

[CSBill]

I think I'm good. We're decent even without Tre, and there is solid depth.

[Irv]

Tre to the PUP.  Not good.  

[Beck Water]

On 8/25/2022 at 8:00 PM, Irv said:

I'm a little worried.  Both Safety's are banged up and are not that young.  We have White out for who knows how long.  He might come back less than 100%.    We might be starting a rookie CB on one side.  The other CB doesn't have a lot of experience.  Just in our division, we make fun of Tua here a lot, but Waddle, Gisecki, and Hill are no jokes.   How will we defend Kupp?  Nervous.  

 

I think it's legit cause for concern. 

 

But the DB's "best friend" in a zone defense is stout pressure up front.  Part of the DB friendliness in McD's zone is that if the zone guys make the right read and "do their job" initially, it slows the QB down enough for pressure to get there before the receivers can "find the gaps" and the coverage breaks down.

 

Beane poured off-season resources into rebuilding the DL.  4 of the 8 key rotational pieces were new signings in off-season FA, including the team's one "big splash" signing of Von Miller.   That's not a fluke - it's a strategic decision driven by the defensive philosophy of our HC.  They looked at the roster after the season, decided that our DL was not providing an adequate ROI as far as affecting the QB and primary run D.  Beane ruthlessly re-worked it by moving on both from fan favorites such as Jerry Hughes and Harrison Phillips, and from the coaching "comfort food" of Carolina Connections (which McDermott had relied upon to provide "buy in" to his/Fraziers system). 

 

The young DLmen who've been high investments from the previous 2 drafts, doubtless got a message "Level Up, or Leave"

 

So, the DL got the Big Bucks both in terms of FA investment this season and the last couple drafts.  Either the DL stays healthy and "meet expectations" for ROI, or the defense circles the drain (and possibly the season). 

 

The way I see it, it's really that simple.   One can disagree with that philosophy (and some here vociferously do) but It Is What It Is.

 

As far as DB, the team has been developing Hamlin and Johnson as understudies to Hyde and Poyer for some years, relying on them to take their place.  Elam was drafted to eventually be an upgrade to Levi Wallace (a Wallace who can play man) and to "hedge their bets" if White wasn't ready to start the season.  So it's not as though the team has been covering their eyes doing nothing "lalalala" as Poyer/Hyde age and White returns from injury.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Beck Water

[HappyDays]

On 8/26/2022 at 5:05 PM, boater said:

Yeah the backfield is weak.

 

Seriously? Two of the best individual safeties in the league and arguably the best overall safety duo. One of the best nickel CBs in the league. At outside CB a proven competent starter and two promising young talents with elite physical traits. Without White on the field it isn't going to be the best we've seen in the McDermott era, but it is patently ridiculous to call our secondary "weak."

[Boatdrinks]

Yep, genuinely concerned. Stepping back from the ledge though I think in the end it’ll be somewhere between A- OK and below average. Elam will be the only starter that hasn’t been in this system so the concern is probably overblown. 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Boatdrinks

[Sierra Foothills]

Everyone in this topic has spoken about the D-line/pass rush or the secondary/coverage but don't forget the Bills have two of the best coverage linebackers in the league.

 

They're a big part of this team's effectiveness against the pass.

 

IMO as long as the defense stays healthy they'll be fine.

 

Moreover I believe Elam is ready for the challenge and will be competitive because they'll play to his strengths.

 

McFrazier won't be afraid to have him press Kupp in pressure situations where Stafford has to get the ball out quickly.

 

I think we'll be fine. JMO.

[The Wiz]

Maybe we should worry more about it if it's in the post season instead of week 1.

 

Until then, I'm just gonna let it play out on its own.