Matt Araiza accused of rape, served with a lawsuit.

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, Tanoros said:

That’s not a good look either. It’s about more than him, “just being a punter”. Would you want to be part of an organization that treats people differently based on who they are or what they do? I surely wouldn’t, and there is a good chance that would turn away others too. 
 

There is no easy answer when things like this happen, but the right path is following pre established plans (even if it was to get rid of someone at the onset of the accusation, but clearly, that’s not the Bills plan). 

If I'm going to make the case that justice should apply equally, regardless of station, I'm not using this case as my north star. We already live in a world where that patently isn't true, and it's also likely a HUGE part into why we don't have all the facts. His status as a big time athlete and a college that worked with a police department to bury a lead is the exact type of injustice you should be railing against. He's not the victim here.

[BigDingus]

17 minutes ago, Ta111 said:

If you cut him know without any facts you’ve ruined the kid. Not to mention how unfair that would be. 

 

I mean he still was involved with 2 other guys in having their way with a 17 year old, highly intoxicated high school girl while he was at his last year in college.

 

Either way, if the guy makes choices like that, I don't think he's all too great a guy.

 

Considering the pictures of the aftermath, it was a very aggressive & physical 1 & a half hours at that... again, on a very intoxicated, non-consenting, high school girl (only 4 months removed from her junior year btw).

 

And this girl considered it so awful, she immediately reported it to police the next day (when she was likely sobered up & surveying the extent of the damage). Whether you need more messed up details or a CIVIL court to inform you of how to feel, that's all up to you & perfectly fine.

 

For me & many others, I think the known actions are enough that I don't want anything to do with him. It's not like he's being thrown in jail anyway, even if he is guilty. I don't want this story to be affiliated with the Bills AT ALL. Especially not for a rookie punter that hasn't played a single snap for us. We are not the Browns.

Edited August 26, 2022 by BigDingus

[stevestojan]

4 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said:

 

Absolutely.  NO ONE here is saying we shouldn't lynch a rapist.  We're just saying we should verify he IS a rapist BEFORE we lynch him.  The fact that people are eagerly willing to lynch someone who could be innocent "just to be safe" is alarming.  I never wish harm on people, but I absolutely wish false rape charges on everyone willing to lynch a man based on nothing more than a single allegation before the facts come out.

The BEST case scenario for our ***** punter is that he’s guilty of statutory rape. This isn’t about “just being safe.” 

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

An NFL insider thinks a Buffalo Bills player could be on the move before the start of the 2022 season.

Mike Kaye, an NFL reporter for Pro Football Network, said on Friday that Bills running back Zack Moss is “primed to be dealt”.

 

Is he the backup punter? I hope he didn’t rape anyone! 

 

That has been brought up elsewhere. Can’t say I’m for it, but I trust our FO. I like this topic better so I responded. I don’t mind muddying this thread. 

[Mango]

6 minutes ago, djp14150 said:

to add…

 

she does the rape kit after this but it goes nowhere probably because of a lack of dna. She didn’t know the guys.

nfl drsft occurs. San Diego mentions on the news of local college pkayers drsfted. She sees him in an interview on local news

she recognizes him from the party and knows he was one she talked to

so she says he was involved…she has littlrpe memory of the incident. She remembered him befire she got drunk.

Somebody posted an article in the thread. The US is notorious for under investigating rapes. There’s an estimated 200,000 unprocessed rape kits. 

https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2019/07/nationwide-epidemic-of-untested-rape-kits-atlantic-daily/594046/

[BillsShredder83]

1 hour ago, SectionC3 said:

Please.  It will be out there soon enough for those who want to find it. 

So, your profession? 

So dox your own client is the professional thing to do? 😆

[Bob in STL]

18 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

I hope the Bills don't have to point tonight. The crowd of 200 Carolina fans is really going to let him have it

If the don't point, they will have to punt.  

[thewookie1]

I wonder if the NFLPA is also involved with the whole issue. If they cut him; the NFLPA would file a grievance since its a Civil Lawsuit not a Criminal Case 

[Alphadawg7]

6 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said:

 

Absolutely.  NO ONE here is saying we shouldn't lynch a rapist.  We're just saying we should verify he IS a rapist BEFORE we lynch him.  The fact that people are eagerly willing to lynch someone who could be innocent "just to be safe" is alarming.  I never wish harm on people, but I absolutely wish false rape charges on everyone willing to lynch a man based on nothing more than a single allegation before the facts come out.

 

Another post to PIN.  How is this so hard for people with their pitchforks to understand this VERY SIMPLE concept.  

[mannc]

1 minute ago, stevestojan said:

The BEST case scenario for our ***** punter is that he’s guilty of statutory rape. This isn’t about “just being safe.” 

Wrong

[BigDingus]

5 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Bad take.  Given the backlog on rape kits and the amount of time it apparently can take police labs to process and certify results from tests that take minutes in a hospital (see Reid, Britt) there is no reasonable conclusion "probably because of a lack of DNA"

 

 

 

Unless Araiza's DNA is already in the system from another crime, or he volunteers for a DNA analysis, it wouldn't matter if there was DNA left behind. 

 

The police never demanded a DNA sample to compare it to, and a Civil court won't require it, so that part won't really matter. Also, there were 3 men involved, and there's a good chance not every one left something behind.

[1ManRaid]

Just now, stevestojan said:

The BEST case scenario for our ***** punter is that he’s guilty of statutory rape. This isn’t about “just being safe.” 

 

No, the best case scenario is that the witnesses are true that she was actually telling people she was in college, which would likely negate the statutory rape charge.

[Mattymafia]

2 minutes ago, stevestojan said:

The BEST case scenario for our ***** punter is that he’s guilty of statutory rape. This isn’t about “just being safe.” 

Not for she lied to him about her age, and he had consensual sex with someone who told him she was 18+

[djp14150]

2 hours ago, Dr.Mantis_Toboggan said:

It’s pretty easy to tell all the individuals who have their own skeletons in their closets coming out to defend this piece of trash. Why DEFEND Araiza at all?  To silence any other women who have the courage to come forward? You don’t know anything except charges have been levied. What grounds do you have to defend such abhorrent accusations?  Every stupid emoji, every baseless defense on indefensible actions speaks volumes to your own personal character, and which virtues you hold true, if any.  If any of you taking the stance of blindly defending this dbag just because he he’s got a Buffalo on his helmet, as your wives what they think, or daughters, or mothers..

in this country there is a principle of innocence until proven guilty…do you understand this?

just because someone says something does not mean it’s true.  There have bern many many examples of false accusations

you are blindly accusing him when you know nothing.

 

have you ever been accused of something you did not do?

[BillsFanSD]

7 minutes ago, stevestojan said:

Some of you are really showing your true colors by the side you’re picking here. And yes, you are picking a side; this isn’t a court of law, he isn’t owed due process to play football. And even if it were a court, statutory rape is a felony. But keep pulling for a god damned punter. Unbelievable. 
 

One of the better tweets:

 

Did they cut the punter yet? I can’t believe a Super Bowl favorite is going to let a punter be a dark cloud over the team.

 

Again, the age of consent in New York is 17.  If Matt Araiza had sex with Jane Doe in his Buffalo residence exactly as it was described in the complaint, it would be perfectly legal.

 

California's laws on this subject are an outlier and should not be taken seriously as any sort of moral guideline.

 

The one and only issue is did Matt Araiza intentionally deliver an intoxicated or drugged girl to a room full of rapists knowing that she would be raped?  If the answer is yes, he should be cut and prosecuted.  If not, this is all nothing. 

Edited August 26, 2022 by BillsFanSD

[Tanoros]

12 minutes ago, BillsNutHawaii said:

Lets examine this, (With my response in parentheses after each of your statements):

 

- "It’s pretty easy to tell all the individuals who have their own skeletons in their closets coming out to defend this piece of trash."  (It's pretty easy to tell who the individuals are who do not value:  due process, the laws passed by our representatives, or the US Constitution in general).

 

- "Why DEFEND Araiza at all?"  (There's no defense of the individual in question, there is a defense of due process.)

 

- "To silence any other women who have the courage to come forward?"  (No one rationale wants to silence anyone else.  I would question why anyone would only want the accusers voice to be heard, and who would try to silence the defendant, that failed logic is what needs to be questioned.  Additionally, why is your question only focusing on supposedly silencing women?  Seems there is a failure to acknowledge and understand that men are also viscously assaulted.) 

 

- "You don’t know anything except charges have been levied."  ( I / we all know as much about the charges as you do, assuming you were not directly involved here.)

 

- "What grounds do you have to defend such abhorrent accusations?"  (As previously covered, the grounds to defend the accusations are based on defending due process at large, and not just an individual.  Additionally, with the same vigor to determine if the accusations are true, the justice system also needs to take equal effort to determine if the accusations are false.)   

 

- "Every stupid emoji, every baseless defense on indefensible actions speaks volumes to your own personal character, and which virtues you hold true, if any."  (I agree, including yours.) 

 

- "If any of you taking the stance of blindly defending this dbag just because he he’s got a Buffalo on his helmet, as your wives what they think, or daughters, or mothers."  (I do think of my wife, daughter and mother.  But it would be false logic to believe abuse is limited to females. We also need to think of the husbands, sons and fathers.)

 

If my logic or conclusions are flawed, flame away, I'm here to learn; I'm interested in the truth.  On the other hand, I'm not too interested in biased viewpoints and I'm skeptical of those who try to suppress the viewpoints of others, (Via supposed shaming, etc).  In the apparent absence of continued / imminent danger to the accuser (She's getting the therapy and support she needs / deserves - the defendant is no where near her), let the punter have his job till due process dictates otherwise.

You covered this very well! Thank you for responding to that incredibly short sighted post in such an articulate manner. 

[BillsShredder83]

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

On the recorded phone call to Araiza...

 

Does it make any sense if Araiza knew what happened to this girl, that his response would be "get checked for an STD."

 

 

How long after the incident was that recorded call?  

11 days. Very well could be in response to being raped by 3 dudes, or mat getting tested because of unprotected encounter, and finding out that way.

 

Totally possible she gave it to him if its the later, we'll never know

[transient]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

They publicly praised Matt after they cut Haack though.  Clearly that wasn't what happened.  And with the season around the corner, they would have already signed another punter as well if they intended on also cutting Matt.  Again, they had 6 weeks prior knowledge of this, we are not talking about something that was just sprung on them recently.  

 

But hey, this could all change at a moments notice still.  If public pressure mounts or new info comes in, they may decide to still make a change before week 1.  

 

 

It hasn't happened yet, but the PR fallout from this only started yesterday when the civil suit was filed. My point is, irrespective of the issues with Araiza, if your alternative is Haack, cutting him and replacing him with equal value off the street in a pinch probably isn't that hard. In addition to the blocked punt in Pittsburg, he was a disaster down the stretch last season.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

He’s out tonight.

[Aussie Joe]

2 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

 

I mean he still was involved with 2 other guys in having their way with a 17 year old, highly intoxicated high school girl while he was at his last year in college.

 

Either way, if the guy makes choices like that, I don't think he's all too great a guy.

 

Considering the pictures of the aftermath, it was a very aggressive & physical 1 & a half hours at that... again, on a very intoxicated, non-consenting, high school girl (only 4 months removed from her junior year btw).

 

And this girl considered it so awful, she immediately reported it to police the next day (when he was likely sobered up & surveying the extent of the damage). Whether you need more messed up details or a CIVIL court to inform you of how to feel, that's all up to you & perfectly fine.

 

For me & many others, I think the known actions are enough that I don't want anything to do with him. It's not like he's being thrown in jail anyway, even if he is guilty. I don't want this story to be affiliated with the Bills AT ALL. Especially not for a rookie punter that hasn't played a single snap for us. We are not the Browns.

It makes logical sense …so why haven’t they cut him? They could have just used the excuse that Haack won the job and not even blamed it on this…

 

Unless there is a possibility that the Bills have further information that may contradict the one side of the story that is in the public domain at the moment,..

[par73]

1 hour ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

I hope he kicks good tonight

Not playing tonight, per GR.

[DanInUticaTampa]

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

If I'm going to make the case that justice should apply equally, regardless of station, I'm not using this case as my north star. We already live in a world where that patently isn't true, and it's also likely a HUGE part into why we don't have all the facts. His status as a big time athlete and a college that worked with a police department to bury a lead is the exact type of injustice you should be railing against. He's not the victim here.

 

So now you are accusing the college and the police of committing crimes. Should they all be fired immediately as well and then rehired if their innocence is proven? Seems like folks accused of a crime need to be fired immediately from their job

[GolfandBills]

4 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

I wonder if the NFLPA is also involved with the whole issue. If they cut him; the NFLPA would file a grievance since its a Civil Lawsuit not a Criminal Case 

They can’t do anything about it.  Happened while he was in college 

[CapeBreton]

3 minutes ago, stevestojan said:

Some of you are really showing your true colors by the side you’re picking here. And yes, you are picking a side; this isn’t a court of law, he isn’t owed due process to play football. And even if it were a court, statutory rape is a felony. But keep pulling for a god damned punter. Unbelievable. 
 

One of the better tweets:

 

Did they cut the punter yet? I can’t believe a Super Bowl favorite is going to let a punter be a dark cloud over the team.

 

Nobody here knows what happened so impossible to pick a side. You don’t know anything either but you’ve concluded he’s guilty? Bills knew the situation and still cut their other punter, they likely know something we don’t. 

[1ManRaid]

4 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

I wonder if the NFLPA is also involved with the whole issue. If they cut him; the NFLPA would file a grievance since its a Civil Lawsuit not a Criminal Case 

 

As far as I know, the league itself can't punish him (happened in college and not subject to league rules), but the team can still cut him for just about any (non discriminatory) reason.

[aristocrat]

 

[ALF]

I just hope the hospital rape test was done in time and she did not wash away the evidence.  I feel very sorry for the young girl and want those responsible in prison. 

[BullBuchanan]

5 minutes ago, DanInUticaTampa said:

 

So now you are accusing the college and the police of committing crimes. Should they all be fired immediately as well and then rehired if their innocence is proven? Seems like folks accused of a crime need to be fired immediately from their job

Oh, I'm not just accusing them now, I've been doing it since like page 14. It's a fact that the college did not alert the campus of the investigation. You'll also never see me campaign for the police to keep their jobs under any circumstance.

Edited August 26, 2022 by BullBuchanan

[Big Blitz]

1 minute ago, BillsShredder83 said:

11 days. Very well could be in response to being raped by 3 dudes, or mat getting tested because of unprotected encounter, and finding out that way.

 

Totally possible she gave it to him if its the later, we'll never know

 

 

That's what he allegedly told her - is that normally what you'd say to an almost certainly unrecognizable phone number and you were aware you did something to the girl

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, djp14150 said:

 

have you ever been accused of something you did not do?

 

Does studying for a test in high school count? 

[thewookie1]

Just now, GolfandBills said:

They can’t do anything about it.  Happened while he was in college 

 

The NFL can't suspend him but the NFLPA can go after the Bills because he is currently a player in the NFL on an NFL contract and as such a member of the PA. The Cutting would be now, not back then.

[AuntieEm]

6 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

 

Unless Araiza's DNA is already in the system from another crime, or he volunteers for a DNA analysis, it wouldn't matter if there was DNA left behind. 

 

The police never demanded a DNA sample to compare it to, and a Civil court won't require it, so that part won't really matter. Also, there were 3 men involved, and there's a good chance not every one left something behind.

 

  I'd think it would be little chance every man that had intimate contact didn't leave something behind.  If this were a gang rape then they aren't being particularly careful and if there were any date rape drugs involved they likely have done similar acts previous to this instance.  There's no accurate known number of how many guys participated.

Edited August 26, 2022 by AuntieEm

[extrahammer]

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[gobills404]

29 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

No need to deflect.  I’m just trying to assess your expertise in this area.  Or lack of expertise, as the case apparently is. 

Coming from the guy that thinks it’s professional to interact with pornstars online while representing yourself and your work. Your credibility is long gone my guy.

[appoo]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

 

Right thing to do

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I think they already cut him based on this.

 

 

[Tanoros]

6 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

If I'm going to make the case that justice should apply equally, regardless of station, I'm not using this case as my north star. We already live in a world where that patently isn't true, and it's also likely a HUGE part into why we don't have all the facts. His status as a big time athlete and a college that worked with a police department to bury a lead is the exact type of injustice you should be railing against. He's not the victim here.

Quite frankly, neither you or I know who commuted those acts against that girl. It’s very possible she doesn’t even know. Due process is of the utmost importance at times like these, clearly that’s how the Bills organization feels too. We all know they are run very well, and look how they are handling this situation, they are exercising due process just as they should be. It’s really quite simple.
 

Also, just because not everyone is treated the same in the world, is not an excuse to treat others differently. We need to be that which we wish to experience, otherwise things inevitably turn to anarchy.  

[KDIGGZ]

8 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

If the don't point, they will have to punt.  

That should definitely be a rule! 

[nedboy7]

Lot of people on here that probably are better off not commenting.  Not every opinion needs to be shared. This is an awful situation at many levels.