Brian Flores suing NFL, NY Giants, Dolphins, Broncos.

[BillsShredder83]

33 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

People make terrible hiring decision all the time, just look at Adam Gase with the Jets.

True but again bad hiring decision. Nobody is hiring a dude they think will translate to less wins, because of their skin color.  Is that happening at Arby's? Yeah, im sure it is... but not in a Bilion dollar industry.  These owners are greedy, they care about $ and W's

[Beast]

2 minutes ago, papazoid said:

he will lose his case.....the rooney rule will be used against him

 

he will never work in the NFL again.....his best bet now is college

 

(this is what i said earlier today in another thread:)

 

the rooney rule hurts absolutely no one

 

it is not a final hiring mandate or quota. the best still get hired.

 

the Rooney Rule aims (not forces) to increase the number of minorities hired in head coach, general manager, and executive positions.

 

of course there can be some sham interviews, but good can still come out of them for most  parties

 

 

Are you missing the whole offering him 100K for each loss?

 

If that's true, Flores is not going to lose his case. No way, no how.

[HamSandwhich]

5 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Then the rule wouldn't effect him at all anyway.

That’s right, so why have it? 

[The Wiz]

1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

but he wanted to leave.

He did until O'Brian was fired.  Then Crennel came in and he finished the 2020 season. Then his legal issues came.

 

It could have been him, but I feel like with Brady going to Tampa and the speculation of what he said during that time when Brady was a FA kind of lines up better in my head.

[bills6969]

Good.  He got hosed by the Dolphins and it sound like Ross was doing some sinister things.  F that franchise…

 

however taking shots at the Giants for not hiring him just has no basis.

[LABILLBACKER]

So let me get this straight.  Belichick accidentally texted Flores instead of Daboll and congratulated him before he even interviewed.  S#!+ meet fan.

[The Wiz]

2 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

Off, that would seem to invalidate Flores' argument right there.

Based on the timeline of the reports from the news, Frazier had his 1st on January 22nd and Daboll had his on January 24th.

 

So unless BB sent that text prior to Frazier and Daboll's interviews, I think the Giants are at least safe.

Edited February 1, 2022 by The Wiz

[hondo in seattle]

6 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

Second, the facts aren't damning to anyone but the Dolphins and on that front only show they violated league rules in regards to tampering. Lastly, it was a missed opportunity to make only black coaches members of the class, they should have gone broader and opened it up to all minority candidates. Of course I could be wrong, but this suit has more chance of changing things through public pressure rather than actual legal relief; which is what I suspect it was aimed at. 

 

Thought I might save everyone some time reading. Here's the link to the complaint in case anyone is interested: https://www.wigdorlaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Complaint-against-National-Football-League-et-al-Filed.pdf

 

 

There are large parts devoid of any legalese that seem to be written for the general public.  

 

This is more than a suit.  It's an attempt to shake things up.  

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by hondo in seattle

[maddenboy]

1 minute ago, Casey D said:

At the end of the day, it is hard to see how this can be a class action.  Each situation is individualized, not common to every coaching candidate.  Unless there is some grand scheme to deny black coaches jobs at a league-wide level, there can be no class. 

 

And all of this will be hard to prove, because it will be difficult to show the reason for the failure to hire a particular person was due to race, and not because the Giants, for example, simply wanted an offensive minded coach.  And was racism a factor in the hiring of David Culley and his rapid firing, or was it because he seemed in over his head.  This could be a long slog that the NFL will want to settle IMO, because the defense evidence of "merit" will have ugly overtones that will be a PR nightmare. . 

wrt class action, I agree.  Numerosity will be a huge problem

 

but as far as racism, Flores isnt claiming damages for not being hired.  He is alleging league-wide fraud and collusion and probably civil-rights violations.  His objective would be to get to punitive damages phase.  And or be able to leverage the threat of a LOT of depositions that the NFL wont want any part of.

[What a Tuel]

28 minutes ago, CNYfan said:

Unless the Bills were honest and up front.  But the candidates interviewed just to meet and exchange ideas.  What if Dorsey gets a HC in a few years.  they have familiarity, as long as everything is up front.

 

Im unclear on this because it waffles back and forth.

 

For the Rooney rule, is the hiring organization supposed to be up front and honest about their intentions? Because it appears that will cause a Flores style lawsuit.

 

Or is the hiring organization supposed to legitimately interview every candidate and then make a decision? I'd think the people who hire, would interview one guy, and think he's their guy, and then interview another and still think #1 is still their guy. Did that mean #2 never had a shot? Maybe #2 just didnt sell himself enough to sway them. In the end, you always have a favorite candidate based on their book of work and resume before you even meet them. It is their job to convince you that they are the better choice and clearly Flores did not. Not to mention the preexisting relationship with the new giants GM and Daboll... 

 

The bigger story to me is the paying for losses, and tampering. Thats gonna cost them draft picks.

Edited February 1, 2022 by What a Tuel

[716er]

Pretty good article from a week or 2 ago from Jemele Hill to put some of this into perspective.

 

 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

7 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

I do not argue that point.  Still, howwould this work in other industries? You don't think that he was supposed to notify NFL officials that an owner actually offered him money to purposely lose games?

Really?

You have to think long and hard to come out with that kind of info.

[BillnutinHouston]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

The Bills just did that 

 

That's a statement that lacks proof, unlike Flores' case.

[ndirish1978]

3 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

Are you missing the whole offering him 100K for each loss?

 

If that's true, Flores is not going to lose his case. No way, no how.

 

This case is not seeking redress for that violation, it is a class action for racial discrimination in hiring practices. That allegation will result in an investigation by the NFL, which I'm sure he provides evidence for and will likely result in penalties for the Dolphins along with the allegation of tampering. 

[hondo in seattle]

1 minute ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Im unclear on this because it waffles back and forth.

 

For the Rooney rule, is the hiring organization supposed to be up front and honest about their intentions? Because it appears that will cause a Flores style lawsuit.

 

Or is the hiring organization supposed to legitimately interview every candidate and then make a decision? I'd think the people who hire, would interview one guy, and think he's their guy, and then interview another and still think #1 is still their guy. Did that mean #2 never had a shot? Maybe #2 just didnt sell himself enough to sway them. Not to mention the preexisting relationship with the new giants GM and Daboll... 

 

The bigger story to me is the paying for losses, and tampering. Thats gonna cost them draft picks.

 

That's just Flores throwing bombs because he's hurt.   But they are serious accusations and Miami needs to be punished.

 

If you read the suit, the clear theme is that NFL is racist, more racist maybe than some of us realized.  

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

This, at least, gets the Brady retirement out of the headlines..

[ndirish1978]

1 minute ago, BillnutinHouston said:

 

That's a statement that lacks proof, unlike Flores' case.

 

If Frazier had already been interviewed, then Flores' argument for him being a sham candidate would not have any proof. 

[Casey D]

1 minute ago, maddenboy said:

wrt class action, I agree.  Numerosity will be a huge problem

 

but as far as racism, Flores isnt claiming damages for not being hired.  He is alleging league-wide fraud and collusion and probably civil-rights violations.  His objective would be to get to punitive damages phase.  And or be able to leverage the threat of a LOT of depositions that the NFL wont want any part of.

He is claiming is claiming economic damages in all counts, but you are correct he does not link it to any particular action or job, just the penumbra of discriminatory conduct (alleged).  And I totally agree that this is going to be played as a PR case that makes the NFL look awful and thus will make the NFL settle.  The law is not on Flores's side, but the PR truly is-- and the ***** that will come out in discovery will be a nightmare.

[papazoid]

5 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

Are you missing the whole offering him 100K for each loss?

 

If that's true, Flores is not going to lose his case. No way, no how.

 

he's got something there with the dolphins owners only.....a hostile work enviroment.....(but not based on race).....he can say he was canned for not playing along to intentionally lose and/or perform illegal activities

[Bill from NYC]

9 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

Are you missing the whole offering him 100K for each loss?

 

If that's true, Flores is not going to lose his case. No way, no how.

If Flores can prove this happened then of course Ross will have a huge problem. That said, it wouldn't seem to involve racism, would it?

[Chicken Boo]

1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

I mean, you kind of have to give the guy credit. As others have said, it very well could be NFL career suicide. But obviously he’s taking a stand for something he strongly believes in and must feel the sacrifice is worth it. I have to respect that.

 

Agreed. 

 

The NFL has been on this bs for the longest.  The only reason this hasn't happened sooner is concern for one's career.  

[YoloinOhio]

 

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

I think the Phins need to lose some draft picks, the picks Ross wanted Flores to tank for.. as well as the $100,000.00

[MAJBobby]

Ross imo is going to get the most punishment. 
 

giants complied with the Rooney Rule. 
 

Ross allegedly wanted to Force Tampering with Brady. Then offered to pay for losses in the age of NFL teams partnering with sports book. The NFL will come down harder on Fins imo if what Flores says is true. 

[Bob in STL]

6 hours ago, loveorhatembillsfan4life said:

Didn’t we just interview two Rooney rule Canadidates who probably had no shot while we waited for Dorsey lol 

 

I have hired hundreds of professionals in my 40 year career.  My job in the real world is probably viewed differently than the NFL but candidates with slim chances are often granted interviews for some very good reasons.  

 

1.  The organization wants to know more about the candidate, maybe for future and/or possibly other positions.  (Helps organization understand depth and skill sets in candidate pool).  
2.  The candidates get valuable experience on how to prepare and perform in these types of interviews in future.  (helps candidates/ mentoring opportunities). 
 

Dorsey could have walked, interviewing as many good candidates as possible is not a bad thing.  The Bills were smart to cast a wide net, even if they hired from within.  They gained something from talking to the others.  
 

Joe Shoen needs to get control of his staff.  This should not have leaked to Belichick, or anywhere else for that matter.  Everyone interviewed should get consideration.  This looks really bad on the Giants FO.  
 

Lots of questioning  of the Rooney rule.  The rule was needed, and probably is still needed.   The problem could be more related to the amateurish actions carried out by the Giants FO and  not the Rooney Rule.  
 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Bob in STL

[Rico]

Kaep Flores.

[Breakout Squad]

1 hour ago, FilthyBeast said:

This is a very bizarre story and somewhat of a sour grapes move by Flores.

 

He's also essentially blacklisting himself and effectively ending his NFL coaching career.

If all that is true, why wouldn’t you take action?? 

[HamSandwhich]

16 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

So let me get this straight.  Belichick accidentally texted Flores instead of Daboll and congratulated him before he even interviewed.  S#!+ meet fan.

That’s hilarious if that is what happened, as much as I think the rule is stupid. 

[The Wiz]

3 minutes ago, loveorhatembillsfan4life said:

I think the Phins need to lose some draft picks, the picks Ross wanted Flores to tank for.. as well as the $100,000.00

And Ross is definitely going to get forced out if anything Flores said was true.

Edited February 1, 2022 by The Wiz

[Seventeen]

Just now, The Wiz said:

And Ross is definitely going to get forced out.

 

Still Flores word against Ross and unproven 

 

[716er]

6 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

lol then maybe they would release more than just Gruden's text messages.

 

 

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

1 minute ago, Roy Hobbs said:

 

Still Flores word against Ross and unproven 

 

Unfortunately yes. But either Flores is delusional and making this up or it actually happened which I’m more inclined to believe.. maybe something more will come out. 

[jlgarsh]

1 hour ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Yeah I tried to read this.

 

Stopped when he accused the Broncos of being hung over to their meeting because obviously they were hard core drinking.

 

you read stuff like that…and it just doesn’t pass the smell test.

 

You've never had a meeting like that before? I have, and it feels pretty awful when you put your heart and soul into going for a position and the people you're meeting with were drunk/high/hung over, then pass over you.

[The Wiz]

3 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

 

Still Flores word against Ross and unproven 

 

I amended my previous statement based on that.

[HamptonBillsfan]

1 hour ago, Charles Romes said:

I mean can you blame the guy for finally losing it. His record was amazing given the circumstances. 

He is a winning, no nonsense coach. I think he would be great for a young team like Jax. The problem is he's terrible with the media and he will get up in the faces of his bosses and ownership if he thinks they're not helping him win. Sad situation. 

[K-9]

20 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

I just finished reading through all 58 pages of the complaint. This reads like someone who is just sick and tired of feeling like he's getting screwed over and is at the end of his rope and frustrated. The suit's evidence is largely historical data and a few allegations against Stephen Ross which will hurt the Dolphins and a hearsay accusation that the Giants had made up their minds to hire Daboll before even interviewing Flores. 

 

His injunctive relief seeks, amongst other things, to "Ensure diversity of decision-making by permitting select Black players and coaches to participate in the interviewing process for General Manager, Head Coach and Offensive and Defensive Coordinator positions." These are privately owned teams, who can hire whomever they want. If you think billionaires are going to be forced to listen to coaches and players tell them who to hire, I wish you well. 

 

There are several bombshells, a couple of which have been picked up by the media. The biggest one i see is Stephen Ross tried to get Flores to meet with, presumably Brady, on a yacht to recruit him, which is in direct violation of league tampering rules. 

 

A lot of this lawsuit does read like a list of personal complaints about why he isn't a head coach. Flores says he was ridiculed for not tanking his first season. He argues "Upon information and belief, no white Head Coach has ever been subjected to such ridicule over winning and holding the spirt of the game in such high regard. In fact, Mr. Flores was ultimately terminated and subsequently defamed throughout the media and the League as he was labeled by the Dolphins brass as someone who was difficult to work with. This is reflective of an all too familiar “angry black man” stigma that is often casted upon Black men who are strong in their morals and convictions while white men are coined as passionate." There is no way to prove this point, it's just an arbitrary complaint. It also fails to note that the GM, part of the Dolphins brass he is criticizing for firing him and labelling him as difficult, is black. As such, it seems like a reach to suggest that labelling him as difficult was racially motivated.

 

The suit does go out of its way to label named parties by their race, which they have to do in order to create suspicion of every person hired instead of a black candidate. Joe Schoen, who is white, is made to look like he was hired despite there being many qualified black candidates for the job. That's pretty baseless. He then claims that the job was Daboll's all along because BB texted him thinking he was Daboll congratulating him on the job. That's probably enough anecdotal evidence for an investigation, though thin because the evidence comes from someone outside the organization. Even if this was the case, I don't see racism in a GM picking a coordinator from his old team to come along with him. In fact, him listing Daboll as a prospective HC is likely one of the things that landed him the job. 

 

I'm not sure that this lawsuit, which obviously is not based on unfounded history of discrimination, is the lawsuit that changes things that need to be changed. This is a class-action, so he's looking to certify and have other black coaches join the suit, which seems poorly conceived for a few reasons. First, current coaches are unlikely to risk their careers by joining and you would need them for credibility. Second, the facts aren't damning to anyone but the Dolphins and on that front only show they violated league rules in regards to tampering. Lastly, it was a missed opportunity to make only black coaches members of the class, they should have gone broader and opened it up to all minority candidates. Of course I could be wrong, but this suit has more chance of changing things through public pressure rather than actual legal relief; which is what I suspect it was aimed at. 

 

Thought I might save everyone some time reading. Here's the link to the complaint in case anyone is interested: https://www.wigdorlaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Complaint-against-National-Football-League-et-al-Filed.pdf

 

Lots of good analysis here. I’m not surprised at the scope at all. It’s interesting that they go back to the 20s in seeking to establish a pattern of institutionalized racism by the league. I find the race norming conducted by the league in order to save money in concussion awards to be repulsive as it’s the very definition institutional racism. No wonder they sought to settle so quickly after it became public. I mean what league lawyer had the temerity to suggest that race norming strategy in the first place? 

[gonzo1105]

In my opinion the problem with business in general but particularly in football is it’s a good ole boys network where relationships matter. The problem is in business or football in this case people tend to gravitate towards people who are like minded to them. 
 

White owners hire white general managers who hire white head coaches because relationships in industry go deeper, people hire people with similar backgrounds , the same cultures etc. is it righ? Absolutely not but I’d venture to guess that’s about 90% of the issue right there

[LABILLBACKER]

A billionaire owner bribing his HC to purposely tank games and the NFL aggressively becoming more active in gambling. What could possibly go wrong. Ross is done and this Rooney Rule will have to be re-examined if they're not going to take it seriously. While we're at it, Bill might want to verify his outgoing texts a little more carefully. What a clusterF.

[The Wiz]

So with all this going on, what happens to the QB, let's call him "Dom Trady" that accepted a meeting with an NFL owner and HC during a time period where there was suppose to be no interaction between them other than through their agent?

[Warcodered]

25 minutes ago, HamSandwhich said:

That’s right, so why have it? 

because this isn't just about Florez.