Rather excited to have a new OC

[78thealltimegreat]

First let me say I like Daboll I wish him well he’s going to need it with arguably the best defensive player in football in Micah Parsons chasing around his QB twice a year.

But it was time for a change.

 
Brian got incredibly reliant on Josh’s legs to bail him out of situations where he’d run out of solutions it was almost like in case of 3rd and 3 or less break glass deal. 

It also sounds like based on Beanes and McDermotts comments the offense was going to change anyway as they wanted to build up the running game as a way to protect Josh.

 

Also while many are paranoid about a new OC in Buffalo look at Dabolls OC record before getting here. He wasn’t exactly the next Bill Walsh 

So let the front office work nine coaches got let go this offseason with some quality people on those staffs

see Greg Olson out in Las Vegas for example and ironically he was up for the job last time 

Edited January 29, 2022 by 78thealltimegreat

[Einstein]

I fear that we all may learn that the grass isn’t always 525nm of wavelength on the other side.

[Thurman#1]

31 minutes ago, Einstein said:

I fear that we all may learn that the grass isn’t always 525nm of wavelength on the other side.

 

 

 

This'n.

 

Hopefully the new guy will do a great job. But there's likely to be adjustment, which will take time. And some new hires fail. Some do terrific, but some fail.

40 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

First let me say I like Daboll I wish him well he’s going to need it with arguably the best defensive player in football in Micah Parsons chasing around his QB twice a year.

But it was time for a change.

 
Brian got incredibly reliant on Josh’s legs to bail him out of situations where he’d run out of solutions it was almost like in case of 3rd and 3 or less break glass deal. 

It also sounds like based on Beanes and McDermotts comments the offense was going to change anyway as they wanted to build up the running game as a way to protect Josh.

 

Also while many are paranoid about a new OC in Buffalo look at Dabolls OC record before getting here. He wasn’t exactly the next Bill Walsh 

So let the front office work nine coaches got let go this offseason with some quality people on those staffs

see Greg Olson out in Las Vegas for example and ironically he was up for the job last time 

 

 

Daboll's been terrific.

 

The tendency for fans is to give the QB credit for the good stuff and blame the OC for the bad stuff.

 

That's how it has worked here, and Daboll has caught a lot of unwarranted crap over it.

 

[Beast]

I’m not excited at all. What we had was working. This sort of reminds me when Ted Marchibroda left the Bills after the 91 season. People rationalized we lost 2 SB’s and the change wouldn’t be a big deal. Maybe it wasn’t because they went to 2 more in a row but the offense was never the same after the 91 season.

 

As said earlier, the grass is not always greener.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Beast

[Brand J]

Daboll and Allen really hit a groove towards the end of the season and the playoffs. Hate to break that up, but if it’s Dorsey, hopefully we won’t miss much of a beat. Former QBs turned OCs usually do pretty well if I’m not mistaken.

[GoBills808]

10 minutes ago, Beast said:

I’m not excited at all. What we had was working. This sort of reminds me when Ted Marchibroda left the Bills after the 91 season. People rationalized we lost 2 SB’s and the change wouldn’t be a big deal. Maybe it wasn’t because they went to 2 more in a row but the offense was never the same after the 91 season.

 

As said earlier, the grass is not always greener.

What we had was going to turn Allen into hamburger in three years.

[Patrick Duffy]

14 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

Hopefully the new guy will do a great job. But there's likely to be adjustment, which will take time. And some new hires fail. Some do terrific, but some fail

True, but chance of success for them are much greater with a top QB. Allen is certainly that and also with the talent around him makes chances even better. I'd say the new OC's probability of success is very much greater than not with this offensive roster.

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, Beast said:

I’m not excited at all. What we had was working. This sort of reminds me when Ted Marchibroda left the Bills after the 91 season. People rationalized we lost 2 SB’s and the change wouldn’t be a big deal. Maybe it wasn’t because they went to 2 more in a row but the offense was never the same after the 91 season.

 

As said earlier, the grass is not always greener.

 

 

The oline got worse and Kelly was 32 years old going on 42 in 1992.  

 

This isn't the same and personally I still believe this team was good enough to win it - but not enough talent to overcome an off day from Josh.  And in our 6 losses this year that's almost exactly what happened. 

 

Especially after White got hurt.  When you go over the "injuries you just may not overcome outside of QB" this team has 2 maybe 3 where if one got hurt we were in big trouble.  White, Diggs, and probably Milano.  I mean we lost Spencer Brown and the oline looked like a hot mess.  

 

 

The roster needs to upgrade at DB and the skill positions on offense first  - find more IOL guys absolutely but they played well against NE and KC in their places down the stretch and real improvement overall so it wasn't the crises it was after Jacksonville.  

 

D line - if a trade is there make it but you invested enough draft capital on it we have to get more out of AJ Groot Boogie Ed Harry - that's the core.

 

 

[JoPoy88]

2 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

First let me say I like Daboll I wish him well he’s going to need it with arguably the best defensive player in football in Micah Parsons chasing around his QB twice a year.

But it was time for a change.

 
Brian got incredibly reliant on Josh’s legs to bail him out of situations where he’d run out of solutions it was almost like in case of 3rd and 3 or less break glass deal. 

It also sounds like based on Beanes and McDermotts comments the offense was going to change anyway as they wanted to build up the running game as a way to protect Josh.

 

Also while many are paranoid about a new OC in Buffalo look at Dabolls OC record before getting here. He wasn’t exactly the next Bill Walsh 

So let the front office work nine coaches got let go this offseason with some quality people on those staffs

see Greg Olson out in Las Vegas for example and ironically he was up for the job last time 

 
Parsons is better than Aaron Donald? He’s very good, probably a top-3 LB already. He doesn’t come close to Donald as the top defensive player in the league though.

[Heavy Kevi]

I'm not falling for this trap thinking again.

 

Last time I thought like this "we were the number 4 defense, just imagine what REX can do with it!"

 

F it up is what he did with it.

 

Dorsey is the only good option to me as the playbook could stay similar and he's so familiar with Josh (and Josh publicly loves him). But now it looks like Dorsey to Gints.

 

I had plenty of problems with Daboll's play calling in certain circumstances, but "the devil you know is better than the devil you don't" 

[ChrisWatson#21]

I'm not.  Daboll had the offense playing at elite level against Belichick and Andy Reid of all coaches in playoff football.  They had no answer for this offense and is the only OC Josh ever had however I'll try and think positive trusting Allen is ready to adapt to anything at this point.  

[PetermansRedemption]

I’d be more excited about a new DC, which sadly doesn’t look like it will be happening. 

[UKBillFan]

2 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

The oline got worse and Kelly was 32 years old going on 42 in 1992.  

 

This isn't the same and personally I still believe this team was good enough to win it - but not enough talent to overcome an off day from Josh.  And in our 6 losses this year that's almost exactly what happened. 

 

Especially after White got hurt.  When you go over the "injuries you just may not overcome outside of QB" this team has 2 maybe 3 where if one got hurt we were in big trouble.  White, Diggs, and probably Milano.  I mean we lost Spencer Brown and the oline looked like a hot mess.  

 

 

The roster needs to upgrade at DB and the skill positions on offense first  - find more IOL guys absolutely but they played well against NE and KC in their places down the stretch and real improvement overall so it wasn't the crises it was after Jacksonville.  

 

D line - if a trade is there make it but you invested enough draft capital on it we have to get more out of AJ Groot Boogie Ed Harry - that's the core.

 

 

Three of our seven losses had less to do with Josh having an off day - Titans, Bucs (particularly second half) and Chiefs last week - and were down to our defense leaking like a sieve and/or blown plays. Steelers, Jags, Colts and Pats? Yes, definitely Josh not being at his best and parts to all of the team crumbling (to differing extents) accordingly. One key thing I’d like to see next year is no blow out losses and being able to put up more than six points against anyone.

[Matt_In_NH]

The new guy will be crucified in here.  

[loedward22]

2 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

The oline got worse and Kelly was 32 years old going on 42 in 1992.  

 

 

I was only about ten at the time so Kelly's age never really registered...  We have Josh during Kelly's USFL age and hopefully he hasn't even come close to his prime.  But I struggle to see how peak Allen can get better... but I do hope he becomes more consistent and we get peak Allen more frequently.  

[Buffalo Boy]

4 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

First let me say I like Daboll I wish him well he’s going to need it with arguably the best defensive player in football in Micah Parsons chasing around his QB twice a year.

But it was time for a change.

 
Brian got incredibly reliant on Josh’s legs to bail him out of situations where he’d run out of solutions it was almost like in case of 3rd and 3 or less break glass deal. 

It also sounds like based on Beanes and McDermotts comments the offense was going to change anyway as they wanted to build up the running game as a way to protect Josh.

 

Also while many are paranoid about a new OC in Buffalo look at Dabolls OC record before getting here. He wasn’t exactly the next Bill Walsh 

So let the front office work nine coaches got let go this offseason with some quality people on those staffs

see Greg Olson out in Las Vegas for example and ironically he was up for the job last time 

   It is funny to see the change in thinking on Daboll here. Considering JA’s development, I guess it’s to be expected. I agree with the OP though.

    Daboll criminally overused JA’s legs on designed runs. Also, I feel it’s unforgivable that it took until the last month of the season to realize that running Singletary up the gut was pointless. The blocking scheme gets changed and Voila ….. we have a competent rushing attack???  Lazy coaching relying on a proven commodity ( Josh) and not putting your other important player ( #1 running back) in a position to succeed.

    Don’t forget the inexplicable decisions : Not letting Josh throw in the first half of the first Pat’s game ….. OR SECOND QUARTER last week. If he was in a Bond movie, it would be called “ The man with the Golden Arm”…… yeah, but let’s restrain that????
     After an up an down season, even with an adjustment period, a good OC hire and some better talent on the O around Josh will do fine and there is a chance considerably better.

    Better for me is Balanced with Josh not taking a beating unless Beast Mode is necessary, which it will be from time to time. 

[Nextmanup]

So much for promoting Daboll to HC, making Dorsey OC and showing McDermott the door...

 

We'll see how disruptive this proves to be.

 

 

[HOF4LOU]

2 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

So much for promoting Daboll to HC, making Dorsey OC and showing McDermott the door...

 

We'll see how disruptive this proves to be.

 

 

I thought about this too. Makes sense bc you have Frazier for D already. However a HC is a different skill set and I really don't think Daboll would have agreed to take his boss' job when he had atleast one other option likely two. I am sure the guys are friends and Daboll respects McD for giving him the keys to Josh for 4 years.  Some people have character.  

[PrimeTime101]

33 minutes ago, HOF4LOU said:

I thought about this too. Makes sense bc you have Frazier for D already. However a HC is a different skill set and I really don't think Daboll would have agreed to take his boss' job when he had atleast one other option likely two. I am sure the guys are friends and Daboll respects McD for giving him the keys to Josh for 4 years.  Some people have character.  

Wait... your trying to say Daboll would not take the HC job here of McD was shown the door?  Daboll respects MCD to much to take what would be an amazing coaching gig in Buffalo with one of the most promising young QB's this NFL has seen in a long time? Really? NFL is a business and Daboll would of taken this gig in a HEART BEAT!

Edited January 29, 2022 by PrimeTime101

[CaptnCoke11]

Yeah thank god a guy with a top 5 offense back to back years is gone.  What a relief 

Edited January 29, 2022 by CaptnCoke11

[Sweats]

I'm not excited about Daboll leaving.........now what do we need to do to get rid of Frazier?

[muppy]

here's my thought on this. You KNOW #17 is going to have major input into this hiring situation. Not to deify Josh Allen but I have faith and trust in HIM and His choices and input...That's the person that will be hired to steer the Bills offensive ship.  Someone who works well and vibes with #17....There is no way in Heck that a new guy comes into 1bd and attempts to revamp Everything and results in regressing this team....... #17 won't have it and frankly they would ferret out a candidates views in interviews and discard anyone who was that stoopid lol

 

m

[Solomon Grundy]

Will the new OC get his choices when it’s time to go grocery shopping? Instead of Frosty Flakes, can he get Tony the Tiger or will they tell him “sorry son we can’t afford Kellogg’s” Shades of my childhood 

[UKBillFan]

7 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Will the new OC get his choices when it’s time to go grocery shopping? Instead of Frosty Flakes, can he get Tony the Tiger or will they tell him “sorry son we can’t afford Kellogg’s” Shades of my childhood 

He’ll get the cereal that Josh tells him to get and no excuses.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

 

 If this happened before this year I would've been worried, but I think Josh will be elite regardless of who they hire. Besides Daboll had so many stretches of head scratching playcalling.

 

 Whoever they hire will get with Josh and keep the plays he likes and he will bring with him some new plays. A fresh set of eyes and thinking might get us a couple more wins when the offense struggles, Daboll didn't seem to have too many answers when that happened. The offense on any given day either worked or it didn't.

 

 

[78thealltimegreat]

6 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

 
Parsons is better than Aaron Donald? He’s very good, probably a top-3 LB already. He doesn’t come close to Donald as the top defensive player in the league though.

Yes he is 

[foreboding]

I like Dorsey, especially if Josh does. However, I worry, as he is young and Josh revered Daboll as a father/uncle figure. I wonder, does 17 want a seasoned, older guy who has years of wisdom and advice to impart?...and will Dorsey command the same level of respect from Josh?

[JoPoy88]

17 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Yes he is 

Okay you definitely convinced me. 

[newcam2012]

Can't wait to get in Norv Turner. He will let Josh throw the long ball. He has a history of success. 

[Starr Almighty]

When I worry about this, I then remember Nathaniel Hackett was the OC in Green Bay and Aaron Rodgers did fine. That helps calm down my worries.

[sunshynman]

19 minutes ago, foreboding said:

I like Dorsey, especially if Josh does. However, I worry, as he is young and Josh revered Daboll as a father/uncle figure. I wonder, does 17 want a seasoned, older guy who has years of wisdom and advice to impart?...and will Dorsey command the same level of respect from Josh?

Josh already said he should get the job. He already respects him. That and is game experience at QB makes Ken the perfect candidate!

[eball]

Dan?  Didn't know he was a Bills fan.

[3rdnlng]

18 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

Okay you definitely convinced me. 

I personally was just blinded by his facts and statistics. He got me by his third "Is so". 

[RunTheBall]

I would have rather seen Frazier go but it is what it is. I like Daboll, I think he deserved a HC shot so congrats to him.

 

I think keeping Dorsey is the best option to keep the offensive train rolling. Continuity is a big element in sustained success. I think Dorsey would keep the concepts/terminology in place and then put his own wrinkles in with input from Josh. 

 

We need to include concepts that allow us to #1) Get more YAC #2) Less reliance on Josh’s legs. It blows my mind that nearly all our air yards were do to Josh and the WR catching with little YAC. That needs to be tweaked. As for Josh running, it will always be an element of his game but we have to start thinking long term durability. It will always be there if everything else is failing and they say “Ok Josh just do whatever you need to do” but it seemed to me we were way too reliant on his legs, especially in short yardage. We need to have other options which will only make Josh’s runs more effective when we do use him.

 

[CincyBillsFan]

I believe two things can be true at the same time: 1) DaBoll did a great job developing Allen and building a potent Bills offense and 2) It's time for a fresh OC to take Allen & the Bills offense to the next level.

 

DaBoll's work with Allen is done.  Going forward it's about turning Allen and the Bills offense into championship form for the next decade. Consistency is the next and last hurdle.

 

At the very least if the Bills get a good OC the difference will give Buffalo a real advantage through the first half of the 2022 season. It's hard enough to defense Allen but you have to think that AFC East teams and teams like KC/Tenn are at least getting an idea of how to do it schematically from having played against DaBolls O as much as they have.  Now all bets will be off.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

8 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

What we had was going to turn Allen into hamburger in three years.

 

I would argue otherwise.  How did Joe Burrow get hurt again?

 

I think QBs get injured more often while taking sacks/being brought down in or near the pocket, with tacklers and/or their linemen collapsing into them as they try to hang in there & get the throw off.

 

17 is elite at setting up blocks, running right off the hip of his blockers & taking what is there while absorbing a minimum of hard shots.  At 6'5" and 245 lbs with sneaky speed and quicks, he has even delivered a few himself.  When you take off & run, you usually get to prepare for and choose if & how you absorb any contact.  Josh also has an uncanny ability to make the first tackler miss.  We shouldn't shelve those skills just so some fans sleep easier.  Daboll smartly increased his reliance on Josh's running skills with very succesful designed runs to get 3rd/4th & shorts in our more recent games.

 

Josh also likes to "get air" which is a higher injury risk (and which he should probably curtail a little bit).  But through Josh's first 4 years, injuries and concussions have not yet been an issue.

[Billsfan1972]

McD has always been defense first and no idea how much input he has on the offense but we know it is considerable. Again we look at Sunday and those runs after seven yard gains on first down and you wonder.  

 

Yes I will go back to the first two years with Josh Allen and you saw how the offense worked. They were scared. A new offensive coordinator hopefully has the wherewithal to make sure that McDermott doesn't override him.

 

Next year's schedule looks much tougher and certainly playing some better QB's. Hope this means the offense is opened up.

[Beast]

2 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Yeah thank god a guy with a top 5 offense back to back years is gone.  What a relief 

 

No doubt. Some fans think the grass is always greener.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Beast

[clayboy54]

5 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

McD has always been defense first and no idea how much input he has on the offense but we know it is considerable. Again we look at Sunday and those runs after seven yard gains on first down and you wonder.  

 

Yes I will go back to the first two years with Josh Allen and you saw how the offense worked. They were scared. A new offensive coordinator hopefully has the wherewithal to make sure that McDermott doesn't override him.

 

Next year's schedule looks much tougher and certainly playing some better QB's. Hope this means the offense is opened up.

I will assume that you maintain autonomy with your boss at your job. Is that the way this works now? Cripes, McDermott is the boss and has the right to say and do anything he believes is the best for his team. No team has coordinators that cannot be overruled, or managed by the head coach. Neither does a corporation. Ultimately, if a boss fails then the entire staff is under fire. There is no situation where subordinates are not responsible to their boss.

 

We get that you don’t like McD. However, you can’t change the way these things work.

[Mat68]

Daboll is a pretty creative guy.  Maybe not the best play caller but I felt good at developing an offense and gameplan.  Allen for the most part is deciding the play at the line.