*[EDIT]* Multiple reports Browns actively shopping Mayfield pg. 29/30 - Ravens / Browns in QB contract pickle

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

1 hour ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

Jackson is a tough one. He and the ravens got royaly screwed on injuries this year. Jackson is dangerous when the ravens run game is dangerous. Run, run, play action to Andrew's across the middle, rinse repeat. But the ravens run game was desolated by injuries and you saw what happened to Jackson's game.

Jackson will never win a championship with his arm alone like josh showed he could do in the playoffs. But if the ravens got back to a superior defense and superior run game and let Jackson burn defenses with his legs then the ravens are easily a playoff team.

I think the ravens believe if they surround Jackson and let him make special plays with his legs they could win a super bowl, therefore I think they give him a contract just under Allen.

His danger of running is incredible but I also think his arm can be there and deadly when called upon or when the games get funky/chaotic and the ravens just let him throw.

 

Lamar is the same QB who went

37-43 86% 442yards 4 TD / 62 Rushing Yards and 16 point 4th QT comeback against the Colts.

 

 

 

 

 

[Norcalbillsfan]

9 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 The bolded part of your comment is going to become much tougher to do starting next year and even that much harder come 2023. I usually don't buy into "the window" to winning a Super Bowl is closing idea, unless there's an aging star QB, but if they couldn't surround him with enough talent when his cap hit was 3 million(This year) they're going to have a hard time doing it paying him as a top 3 player. 

 

 His pay goes up 20 million this year and depending on the specifics of his new deal, about an additional 20 million will be added in 2023. The level of play from his surrounding cast is going to suffer greatly from his new deal and I don't see that his talent is anywhere good enough to overcome that. 

 

 

That's a great point. And they will have to pay Andrew's. But I still think they pay Jackson. And try to establish the run game and get back to solid defense. I'm sure the ravens know they can't just give Jackson recievers and ask him to win with his arm. Harbaugh is a smart coach, he knows what he has in jackson.

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

Sigh. The measurement to which I got the numbers is consistent in both cases - it doesn’t discriminate to where the QB is in that contract and points to the fact their deals are larger now than they were then, comparatively. You can ignore the data all you want, but it doesn’t change the fact. You can also assume contracts will be the same 3 years from now, but that’s an argument based on assumption, that’s all it is. And that’s all you’ve been doing. I gave you concrete numbers to show the increase, you’ve given nothing, no stats or otherwise that speaks to the contrary. 
As My Cousin Vinny so eloquently put it, “I’m done with this guy.”

 

We all know the deals are larger, but given the increase in the cap, the % for these huge contract will be in 2024 about what they were 6-7 years ago.  The numerator (cap hit) stays the same for each contract, the denominator (cap) increases.  It's math...

 

Josh's, Mahomes, etc contracts are what they for several years going forward.  You keep using the annual average salary (your "stats").

 

Your NBA comparison is also pointless as all contracts are fully guaranteed for the entire length of the contract.

 

 

Bowing out is probably wise.

[Brand J]

48 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

We all know the deals are larger, but given the increase in the cap, the % for these huge contract will be in 2024 about what they were 6-7 years ago.  The numerator (cap hit) stays the same for each contract, the denominator (cap) increases.  It's math...

 

Josh's, Mahomes, etc contracts are what they for several years going forward.  You keep using the annual average salary (your "stats").

 

Your NBA comparison is also pointless as all contracts are fully guaranteed for the entire length of the contract.

 

 

Bowing out is probably wise.

Wisest decision I’ve made 😂 No use in conversing with someone who doesn’t understand basic statistics and insists in using 2024 in his “argument” as though all contracts have already been set for that period. Yeesh. At least you finally admitted to what I’ve been saying all along: the deals are larger. Thank you for playing and good day, sir.

Edited February 6, 2022 by JayBaller10

[zow2]

On 1/4/2022 at 7:31 AM, Greg S said:

Baker isn't getting that big payday. To think he was the #1 pick in 2018. He has been a disappointment. They made a point last night saying the Browns offense runs thru Chubb and Hunt. What does that tell you about Baker as a #1 pick?

 

Browns have a tough decision. Before Baker got injured, he threw the ball just fine in the first couple games. He was spot on accurate. Then the shoulder injury, and he couldn’t throw anymore.  Not sure why they even played him.

If he does move on to another team, that club may be getting a pretty good QB assuming the surgery went well and he’s healed up.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, zow2 said:

 

Browns have a tough decision. Before Baker got injured, he threw the ball just fine in the first couple games. He was spot on accurate. Then the shoulder injury, and he couldn’t throw anymore.  Not sure why they even played him.

If he does move on to another team, that club may be getting a pretty good QB assuming the surgery went well and he’s healed up.

 

They should keep him. Let him play on the option then tag him next year if they need to. 

[Scott7975]

I remember when people got upset that Fitz got 10 million lol.

[Chicken Boo]

I don't think Cleveland is in a corner at all.  They can find a replacement for Baker.  Minshew, Jimmy G, or Winston can get you Baker level play or better.

 

 

[Chicken Boo]

10 hours ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

His danger of running is incredible but I also think his arm can be there and deadly when called upon or when the games get funky/chaotic and the ravens just let him throw.

 

Lamar is the same QB who went

37-43 86% 442yards 4 TD / 62 Rushing Yards and 16 point 4th QT comeback against the Colts.

 

That was an amazing performance.

 

A guy like Lamar would be greatly aided with a big target like Mike Williams.  Pair him with Hollywood, Andrews and that running game...look out.

Edited February 7, 2022 by Chicken Boo

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Both of these QB’s will never win a SB and are going to be asking for huge contracts that are going to set their teams back. I would try to trade them asap.

[BuffaloRebound]

Jimmy G would be perfect fit for Cleveland. But Cleveland would probably have difficulty trading Mayfield.  He’s more insurance commercial guy than QB at this point.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

They should keep him. Let him play on the option then tag him next year if they need to. 

 

That seems to be the thinking.

[Brand J]

It’s funny we were just talking about QB contracts. There’s a new extensive article in The Athletic and it seems I haven’t been alone in my thoughts:

 

Quote

QB creativity

Some unconventional strategies have been floating around the league.

With the new TV money, it’s been speculated the salary cap could begin to increase by $20 million per year starting in 2023. Maybe there will be $30 million annual increases by 2030.

Rather than structuring a contract with a finite dollar amount, quarterbacks could ask for a percentage of the salary cap. For now, no team has wanted to be the first to honor such a contract.

However, teams might eventually warm up to the idea if they continue to stumble while they’re on the wrong side of that 15 percent threshold.

“I think people are really apprehensive to be the one who changes the market,” the executive said.

There’s another far more dramatic measure that would need to be collectively bargained. The league could adopt something similar to the NBA’s supermax model and designate one player — likely a quarterback — whose contract doesn’t wholly count against the cap.

Using Burrow as the example, the Bengals could get rewarded for drafting, developing and retaining him. If they continue to extend his contract, only 80 percent of his cash earnings would count against the cap from years six through eight, then 70 percent in years nine and 10, and so on and so forth.

“They have to think of something creative to take away from the quarterback’s number crushing the cap,” the coach said. “So you’d get rewarded for developing a player and sticking with him as opposed to flushing guys and looking for quick fixes.

“Too many people in the league are afraid to think outside the box. The owners have the money. They’re all going to cry about the cap and how it’s ‘more money this, more money that.’ They signed a $110 billion TV contract. Money is not the issue. You’ve got the money, but you don’t want to crush your cap by the quarterback’s contract taking away from everything. You shouldn’t be punished to have Tom Brady in years 19 and 20 because he deservingly wants money, but you’ve also had success because of all the guys you’ve put around him. Something has got to give.”

Salary Cap Crossroads Ahead: Joe Burrow Leads Young QB Crop That’ll Reset Market & Test Teams’ Priorities

Edited February 9, 2022 by JayBaller10

[Buffalo_Stampede]

On 2/7/2022 at 8:32 AM, BuffaloRebound said:

Jimmy G would be perfect fit for Cleveland. But Cleveland would probably have difficulty trading Mayfield.  He’s more insurance commercial guy than QB at this point.  

They would have zero trouble trading him.

[Captain Hindsight]

41 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

They would have zero trouble trading him.

If Darnold is worth a second, Baker would get a 1st. Especially in a down QB year draft

[BuffaloBillyG]

18 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

If Darnold is worth a second, Baker would get a 1st. Especially in a down QB year draft

Agree. There are a LOT of QB needy teams right now and more that could enter that arena very soon. Heck, the entire NFC South alone is in need. Washington, Pittsburgh, Denver, (Giants and Eagles are, but don't seem to want to admit it). Indy, possibly the Lions...that's 11 places off the top of my head. 

 

Bidding war would start at a 1 IMO.

[Orlando Tim]

Baker is easy- let him walk unless he is willing to play for $20 million a year or less. LJ is harder to pin down because when healthy he is dynamic but I think we are already at the point where he might get injured annually 

[TheFunPolice]

Lamar is going to be fun to watch. I think he's at a bit of a crossroads career-wise. Injuries and defenses caught up with him a bit this season. How will he respond in 22?

 

He starting to suffer some injuries due to his playing style, and he isn't the biggest guy out there. He also has some mysterious "illness" that kept him out of games as well, so I hope he is OK just on a human level. He seems like a great person and a guy you root for (except when he plays the Bills, of course!)

 

Now, the Ravens suffered an insane number of injuries in their run game, which really hurt their offense and set them back, so the fact that they were even in the playoff conversation late in the season was amazing. It'll be fun to see them back to full strength in that division.

 

Poor Browns fans... You have AT BEST the 3rd best QB in your division, let alone the AFC. That's assuming Rodgers doesn't go to Pittsburgh. 

[Doc]

4 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said:

If Darnold is worth a second, Baker would get a 1st. Especially in a down QB year draft

 

Different situations.  Darnold was considered a guy who the Jets were screwing up/not giving him enough weapons, plus they had a cheap year and a 5th year option that was relatively inexpensive (and is now a major mistake to have picked up).  The Panthers found out the hard way he just sucks.  OTOH the Browns have been surrounding Baker with talent and he'll be looking for $40M/year.

[Rochesterfan]

On 2/6/2022 at 5:58 PM, zow2 said:

 

Browns have a tough decision. Before Baker got injured, he threw the ball just fine in the first couple games. He was spot on accurate. Then the shoulder injury, and he couldn’t throw anymore.  Not sure why they even played him.

If he does move on to another team, that club may be getting a pretty good QB assuming the surgery went well and he’s healed up.

 

Game 1 and 2 (injured in game 2) his completion percentage was fine, but he only had 1 TD and 2 Ints at that point - plus sacks.  

 

I think if he could adjust his mentality and be happy as a high volume game manager- he would be fine, but I would not want to be a team and have to rely on him.  Mayfield wants to be considered elite, but he is really replacement level on a very good team.

 

The issue is what are you willing to pay a game manager - I think they should let him play on the option, but be looking for a way out - trade/FA/Etc.  Even tagging him might be to expensive for his play - depends upon whether you can get a similar player - Grappolo, Tannehill, etc at a cheap price.

 

 

 

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

17 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Different situations.  Darnold was considered a guy who the Jets were screwing up/not giving him enough weapons, plus they had a cheap year and a 5th year option that was relatively inexpensive (and is now a major mistake to have picked up).  The Panthers found out the hard way he just sucks.  OTOH the Browns have been surrounding Baker with talent and he'll be looking for $40M/year.

I think ultimately if the do resign him giving him the "Kirk Cousins Treatment" may be their best option. Lower salary and years, however a higher % of guaranteed money. 

 

Gives both sides some security and protection and gives Baker another chance to score a huge payday down the road if he proves better.

[longtimebillsfan]

On 1/5/2022 at 4:39 PM, Limeaid said:

 

Mayfield is the wife with the large alimony in this case but coaches contracts are completely guaranteed unless coach does a major foobar.

What is the acronym for foobar?  I believe you were searching for fubar.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I think ultimately if the do resign him giving him the "Kirk Cousins Treatment" may be their best option. Lower salary and years, however a higher % of guaranteed money. 

 

Gives both sides some security and protection and gives Baker another chance to score a huge payday down the road if he proves better.

 

I mean "less salary" 3yr 84M in 2018, and 2yr 66M for 21-22 - all guaranteed.  So i would assume that starts negotiations at 30M per year.  His cap hit for this year is 45M.  If you tried to trade him the team acquiring has to pay 35M in salary.  

Edited February 10, 2022 by dneveu

[Captain Hindsight]

On 2/6/2022 at 11:17 PM, Chicken Boo said:

I don't think Cleveland is in a corner at all.  They can find a replacement for Baker.  Minshew, Jimmy G, or Winston can get you Baker level play or better.

 

 

I think you are underestimating Baker or overestimating those other guys. Baker isn’t great, but I’d still take him over Winston or Minshew. Jimmy G is good, but I think baker offers more 

19 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Different situations.  Darnold was considered a guy who the Jets were screwing up/not giving him enough weapons, plus they had a cheap year and a 5th year option that was relatively inexpensive (and is now a major mistake to have picked up).  The Panthers found out the hard way he just sucks.  OTOH the Browns have been surrounding Baker with talent and he'll be looking for $40M/year.

I get that. It only Takes one team to do it tho. With a weak draft class, someone might think they can get the most out of Baker as opposed to taking a chance on Kenny Pickett

[TheFunPolice]

I look at it this way:

 

EVEN IF Baker plays really well, he is the 3rd best QB in that division behind both Burrow and Jackson. If the Steelers bring in a veteran QB he will be trying not to be the 4th best. 

 

Baker can be fine, but he's nothing spectacular. That team bases its offense around the running game, which you don't normally do if you have a top QB. Ravens are an exception, because the QB has a unique skillset.

[Don Otreply]

On 1/6/2022 at 8:44 AM, FilthyBeast said:

 

Sorry been tied up with some things so I could respond sooner.

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and again I'm not disputing Allen being in the upper 3rd of NFL QB's from a statistical standpoint.  He is and only a fool would tell you otherwise.

 

The crux of my argument is that you have to look at the accolades that matter (at least in terms of the 'experts') and prior to 2021 Allen had one good season on film which many felt (and still feel) was fluky because of the covid year circumstances. So if we are debating the fact that his extension was given on potential that's another thing, but in terms of being a proven commodity Allen really isn't yet unless he can elevate this team to another level in the playoffs and at minimum make another AFCCG appearance.

 

But going back to my personal feelings, I'm still taking the guys I mentioned over Allen today because I'm not a biased fan and have seen more pure raw talent to believe they are going to be all time great HOF types that win multiple championships and/or elevate their teams. Allen could be too but still think the odds are against that if anything because of how inconsistent he still is 4 years into his career.

I could see a desperate pats fan trying desperately to believe some shnyde like this. You have been remarkable in your consistency, so high marks for that, 😁👍

 

Go Bills!!!

[Chaos]

To extent that Deshaun Watson becomes viable in the NFL I have thought for a long time that Baker plus many draft picks for Watson could elevate both teams meaningful.  mayfield is not a high end QB but he is credible and might be a popular player in Texas.  

[Beast]

3 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

I look at it this way:

 

EVEN IF Baker plays really well, he is the 3rd best QB in that division behind both Burrow and Jackson. If the Steelers bring in a veteran QB he will be trying not to be the 4th best. 

 

Baker can be fine, but he's nothing spectacular. That team bases its offense around the running game, which you don't normally do if you have a top QB. Ravens are an exception, because the QB has a unique skillset.

 

If Mayfield plays well I'd take him ahead of Jackson without even have to take time to decide.

[Greg S]

I am a little surprised the Ravens haven't signed Jackson. I don't think he would get what Allen got but I thought he has done enough to prove he is their future.

[Chicken Boo]

6 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said:

I think you are underestimating Baker or overestimating those other guys. Baker isn’t great, but I’d still take him over Winston or Minshew. Jimmy G is good, but I think baker offers more 

 

I'm not big on Baker at all.  He had the best line and rushing attack in football that helped mask his shortcomings.

 

All things equal, there's quite a few QBs I'd rather have.  I certainly wouldn't pay him $30 mill per season.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Chicken Boo

[benderbender]

8 hours ago, longtimebillsfan said:

What is the acronym for foobar?  I believe you were searching for fubar.

Fellas, fellas. Please. If we fight over foo, we will unwittingly have become 

[BuffaloBillyG]

3 hours ago, Greg S said:

I am a little surprised the Ravens haven't signed Jackson. I don't think he would get what Allen got but I thought he has done enough to prove he is their future.

I'm not so sure I agree with that part.

 

I think we can all agree that what goes on in an NFL Locker Room (not to mention Coaches/GM meetings) are not always what the public is made aware of.

 

The Ravens have publicly said the want to get a deal done but IMO, their actions say something else. If a team really truly believes that they have "their guy" at QB they lock him down. It's priority 1, 2 and 3. If they still have internal questions (be it skill, health, off field issues) they tend to string it along. 

 

Reports using the wording "Being patient" "Comfortable having him play on 5th year option" and "They may even use the tag if they need to" say to me at least that there are some internal questions and Lamar needs to be healthy and make resigning him a no brainer.

 

 

[Inigo Montoya]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2022-nfl-mock-draft-cardinals-trade-kyler-murray-after-social-media-statement-pickett-vaults-into-top-10/

 

https://dawgpounddaily.com/2022/02/11/cleveland-browns-kyler-murray/

 

 

Trade Baker and a 1st rounder to the Cards for Murray?

 

It's going to be a very interesting off season.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2022 by Inigo Montoya

[Jay_Fixit]

Mock drafts.

 

lol.

[LABILLBACKER]

There is no way Mayfield,  Jackson or Murray are worth a penny over 35/ yr. Anyone dumb enough to pay these guys over this will be in cap hell for a long time. 

[Doc]

Change the title to add "Cardinals [now in a QB contract pickle]."

[Warcodered]

3 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2022-nfl-mock-draft-cardinals-trade-kyler-murray-after-social-media-statement-pickett-vaults-into-top-10/

 

https://dawgpounddaily.com/2022/02/11/cleveland-browns-kyler-murray/

 

 

Trade Baker and a 1st rounder to the Cards for Murray?

 

It's going to be a very interesting off season.

 

 

 

 

Tis the season to say crazy *****.

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

There is no way Mayfield,  Jackson or Murray are worth a penny over 35/ yr. Anyone dumb enough to pay these guys over this will be in cap hell for a long time. 

There is a case where Jackson is worth the $40M to the Ravens in a shorter term deal or one that gives them and inexpensive "out" after a couple seasons. 

 

I wouldn't, myself. I'd take advantage of some desperate GM. If Watson could grab 3 1sts, someone will start the bidding there for a young former MVP.

[Big Turk]

Yeah right...

[Don Otreply]

On 2/10/2022 at 11:37 AM, Greg S said:

I am a little surprised the Ravens haven't signed Jackson. I don't think he would get what Allen got but I thought he has done enough to prove he is their future.

If you realize that by future you mean what the are currently, it would take a special set of circumstances for Baltimore to be better than they were in the last two seasons, and that amounts to being “regular season “ maybe division winners, but true post season success would be unlikely, jmo.