*[EDIT]* Multiple reports Browns actively shopping Mayfield pg. 29/30 - Ravens / Browns in QB contract pickle

[That's No Moon]

9 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

And what are those strengths again?

 

He'd probably be a good upgrade for New England over Mac. 

He won a Heisman and got drafted #1 overall running an Air Raid offense.  Cleveland very much does not do that.

[cle23]

51 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

LOL at every failed Browns QB jumping in to get get shots off at Cabot, as if their horrible performances that ended their careers are HER fault.

 

Kinda funny, but mostly pathetic. Typical Browns.

 

It obviously not her fault players fail, but she consistently drums up drama and controversy where there typically is none.  It drives clicks.  It's how she makes money, so I get it.

[Seventeen]

5 minutes ago, cle23 said:

 

Right, they shouldn't pay him anywhere near top QB money.  I do believe he is above average, but he is too inconsistent.  This year is kind of hard to say because he got hurt early in the 2nd game of the year and was obviously not the same as he was before.  But only the guys in the building, and Baker himself, will truly know how much that hampered him.  It is extremely odd to have the season he had last year with a brand new head coach, and then regress that bad in year 2 simply by chance.  I think the injury was the major factor, but he is on essentially a 1 year prove it deal next season.  

 

Either way, Mary Kay isn't a good writer.  There are have been more than once or twice that people have asked if she was serious after questions, and it's not just players and such.  Maybe she isn't good in the way she words questions, but being a writer for this many years, she should have a handle on it by now.

 

I'm warming up to @GunnerBill's belief Mayfield will be back for his 5th year in Cleveland if . .. 

1. His throwing mechanics are restored by the labrum surgery
2. There is no rift between him and Stefanski 
3. Haslam doesn't want to trade up and replace him 
4. They get him a better receiver core 
5. They return him to a rollout QB instead of pocket passer as they can't fix the batted down passes
6. They can't trade for a better option or acquire his replacement via FA

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

17 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

 

I'm warming up to @GunnerBill's belief Mayfield will be back for his 5th year in Cleveland if . .. 

 

He should be back for the 5ht year. He's under contract still and the risk of losing him is not yet worth the reward of a replacement. Unless Rodgers or Wilson are going to Cleveland which I don't see likely. But beyond year 5 looks very unlikely.

[jlgarsh]

19 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You and a couple others here might be better plugged-in, but my impression of Mary Kay Cabot is that she’s generally well respected and “plugged in” with Browns sources.

 

The story she wrote is here:

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2022/01/browns-qb-baker-mayfield-must-resolve-his-differences-with-kevin-stefanski-soon-in-case-they-need-to-co-exist-next-season-mary-kay-cabot.html

(It’s subscriber-only but one can log in for 1 free story)

 

She gives quotes from Baker on 2 occasions and from Stefanski to bolster the contention that they aren’t on the same page.

 

 

I’ve never heard Allen say anything like that.  He’s always “I need to find a few more completions….I can’t put the ball in harm’s way like that” - it’s only very recently in a couple of pressers that I’ve heard him say “we”….and it’s followed with “and that starts with me.”  Likewise I’ve never heard McDermott or Daboll say anything like this about Josh Allen:

 

 

It’s always “I have full confidence in Josh” or “I believe in Josh, that’ll never change” after the Falcons game with the two tipped picks “he’s going to have days like that”

 

It’s hard to know what her sources were for some of the other stuff, like “Mayfield’s issues with Stefanski bubbled below the surface most of the season, with Mayfield feeling like Stefanski’s playcalling didn’t always put him in position to succeed or play to his strengths, sources told cleveland.com” or “If Mayfield doesn’t get reassurance that things will change next season, he’ll consider asking to be traded. He’s under contract for $18.858 million in his fifth-year option year” but Mayfield specifically saying “I’m not your puppet”  seems to imply that he or someone close to him in fact said stuff to Cabot, but doesn’t agree with how it was interpreted or the way the story was put together - maybe he thinks the context was misrepresented or something.

 

But it seemed pretty straightforward that Mayfield did very well with the play-action bootlegs that were a mainstay last year, and didn’t seem as comfortable with some of the playcalling this season, and he has said some stuff publicly which Cabot quoted.

 

It doesn’t seem like a “fair call” to say she has no sources or facts.

Josh is a great leader for the team. Look at when they lost to the Jags. The person he blamed was himself. It’s very refreshing

[billsfan_34]

On 1/4/2022 at 6:47 AM, Scott7975 said:

Either team would be fools to give those QBs an Allen type contract.  Lamar is figured out and isn't a good passer of the football.  Im sure Ill get roll eyes, check marks, and flak for this but I don't care.  I've said it from year one and I will continue to say it.  Lamar is not a good QB.  Probably the best athlete on the field but Lamar said it best... not bad for a RB.

 

As far as Baker he has played with a pretty bad injury all year so its hard to judge but based on his overall work, I don't think he is very good either.  He turns the ball over too much.  If he stopped that he would be a good game manager though.

 

If it were me, I would at best franchise tag those QBs or offer them a mid level contract and look to replace them sooner than later.  Anything more than a mid level contract would just set the team back.  Ravens already made that mistake with Flacco.  Will they make the same mistake twice?  Already seen what the Ravens look like this year from injury.  They aren't going to look any better when they can't pay anyone.  Even full strength, Lamar is not winning them a SB.  He is just a regular season super hero.  Not going to get more than that.  Especially not now.  More and more teams are getting better.  More and more teams have figured out the Lamar/Roman formula.  Contain Lamar.  Take Andrews out of the game.  Lamar isn't good enough after that.  I don't care what wideouts they have.

Don’t turn your back on Lamar, and you beat him.

[Nextmanup]

Out of all those big name QBs in Josh Allen's draft class, how many are going to still be playing for the team that drafted them after next year? 

 

Maybe only Josh Allen!

 

It's funny to think of the hype at that time and all the talk...and if some pundit had said "I don't see what all the fuss here is about; the pick of this litter is Josh Allen; the rest are varying shades of bust and won't remain with the team that drafted them for very long."

 

The guy who said THAT at the time would have been laughed at, and yet he would have been dead on.

 

Goes to show you cannot form an accurate opinion about any DRAFT DAY DECISION for YEARS.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 1/5/2022 at 7:30 AM, YoloinOhio said:

Yes - He responded that he did have guys set up to chip him at times and there were a variety of reasons that watt had his way, not just the times Hudson had him 1:1, and threw baker under the bus by saying that sometimes the protection was right but the ball didn’t come out fast enough. 

 

So what did Baker say after the Steelers game that is being interpreted as “on the outs” with Stefanski?

 

21 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

So the lack of a running game in Buffalo (though last Sunday there was glimmer of one) along with known problems with the offensive line (again maybe at some level of under repair) fall under the responsibility of Josh Allen. The guy has put the team on his back and carried it except for last week.  He is a once in a generation talent and I am glad the Bills were smart and came to a reasonable agreement with him.

 

I would have to say Josh Allen did a good bit of carrying last week.  He did throw 3 picks, but he also rushed for 81 yds and 2 TDs.  That’s literally carrying….

[PrimeTime101]

Lamar is special... like or hate him he is... Lamar will get paid closer to Josh Allen's contract, but the difference is Lamar's longevity is horrible. Baker is serviceable QB in this league. If i were to guess I would say somewhere between 12-18 in QB contract standards. Sadly both their agents feel they deserve Josh money, and it is not happening. 

[mannc]

3 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

He should be back for the 5ht year. He's under contract still and the risk of losing him is not yet worth the reward of a replacement. Unless Rodgers or Wilson are going to Cleveland which I don't see likely. But beyond year 5 looks very unlikely.

It’s a bad offseason to be in the market for a new QB…

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, cle23 said:

 

It obviously not her fault players fail, but she consistently drums up drama and controversy where there typically is none.  It drives clicks.  It's how she makes money, so I get it.

 

I mean, it’s a fair point that most sportswriters do this.  For example Joe Buscaglia was all “Bills done with Phillips, going to be traded” when he was a “healthy scratch” for a couple of games last season, then by the end of the season it was clear that was not the case.  Ditto Bills were said by (I think) Joe B, maybe also Sal C, to be all done with Morse when he was a “healthy scratch” for a game (or was it 2?) last season, now the coaches are all about “playing his best football this season”.

 

But it’s one thing to say a reporter is writing in an attention- or click-grabbing way, and another to claim they have no sources and are essentially just making stuff up.

 

Which it doesn’t seem quite fair.

4 minutes ago, mannc said:

It’s a bad offseason to be in the market for a new QB…

 

??

Watson

?Wilson?

?Rodgers?

Trubisky

maybe Bridgewater

and of course, Draft.

 

[mannc]

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I mean, it’s a fair point that most sportswriters do this.  For example Joe Buscaglia was all “Bills done with Phillips, going to be traded” when he was a “healthy scratch” for a couple of games last season, then by the end of the season it was clear that was not the case.  Ditto Bills were said by (I think) Joe B, maybe also Sal C, to be all done with Morse when he was a “healthy scratch” for a game (or was it 2?) last season, now the coaches are all about “playing his best football this season”.

 

But it’s one thing to say a reporter is writing in an attention- or click-grabbing way, and another to claim they have no sources and are essentially just making stuff up.

 

Which it doesn’t seem quite fair.

 

??

Watson

?Wilson?

?Rodgers?

Trubisky

maybe Bridgewater

and of course, Draft.

 

The first three are under contract and would require a team to mortgage it’s future…and of course, it’s anyone’s guess whether Watson even sees the field in 2022. Bridgewater?  Really?  
 

I agree Trubisky’s not a bad option, but no one really wanted him last year and he hasn’t done anything to burnish his resume. no one’s going to hand him their starting job.

[DrDawkinstein]

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

??

Watson

?Wilson?

?Rodgers?

Trubisky

maybe Bridgewater

and of course, Draft.

 

 

First 3 are all under contract with either clauses, or some ability to control where they go.

 

List looks a lot worse when it's just the true FAs.

 

Draft doesnt look promising this year either.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

16 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

First 3 are all under contract with either clauses, or some ability to control where they go.

 

List looks a lot worse when it's just the true FAs.

 

Draft doesnt look promising this year either.

 

Thought Rodgers came back to play for GB this season on the understanding he’d be free next year

 

44 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Lamar is special... like or hate him he is... Lamar will get paid closer to Josh Allen's contract, but the difference is Lamar's longevity is horrible. Baker is serviceable QB in this league. If i were to guess I would say somewhere between 12-18 in QB contract standards. Sadly both their agents feel they deserve Josh money, and it is not happening. 

 

Does Lamar have an agent now?

[loyal2dagame]

4 hours ago, cle23 said:

 

It obviously not her fault players fail, but she consistently drums up drama and controversy where there typically is none.  It drives clicks.  It's how she makes money, so I get it.

So she's Cleveland's version of Jerry Sullivan.....

[DrDawkinstein]

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Thought Rodgers came back to play for GB this season on the understanding he’d be free next year

 

Not sure what that understanding would actually look like since he is technically under contract for 2 more seasons after this. And releasing him this offseason would hit GB with a $26M dead cap cost. Can both sides just agree to "void" a contract? Would the league go for that? (mostly rhetorical since Im not sure any of us would know)

 

The 2023 year is basically voided. But there are still contract issues to work through for next year.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/aaron-rodgers-3745/

[Doc]

43 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Lamar is special... like or hate him he is... Lamar will get paid closer to Josh Allen's contract, but the difference is Lamar's longevity is horrible. Baker is serviceable QB in this league. If i were to guess I would say somewhere between 12-18 in QB contract standards. Sadly both their agents feel they deserve Josh money, and it is not happening. 

We’ll see if Lamar gets a huge new deal.  IMHO the Ravens not giving him a new deal at the latest after Josh got his makes me think they have reservations.  And I doubt this season has done anything to change that.

[YoloinOhio]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So what did Baker say after the Steelers game that is being interpreted as “on the outs” with Stefanski?

 

 

I would have to say Josh Allen did a good bit of carrying last week.  He did throw 3 picks, but he also rushed for 81 yds and 2 TDs.  That’s literally carrying….

Baker made comments that Hudson should have had help with watt, implicating the HC 

1 hour ago, loyal2dagame said:

So she's Cleveland's version of Jerry Sullivan.....

Not at all. Vic Carruci maybe (now retired) 

Edited January 7, 2022 by YoloinOhio

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, loyal2dagame said:

So she's Cleveland's version of Jerry Sullivan.....

 

I’ll say that I don’t follow the Cleveland new media, but I don’t think that’s a good characterization.

 

Sullivan for years was an “opinion column” man, and during the Bills drought slid into a schtick of knee-jerk negativity about everything.  EVERYTHING, even the mini-bagels in the press box.  

 

Cabot to my understanding is a legitimate sports reporter.  Sure, she may try to slant things in a controversial way to generate clicks, just as Joe B does, but I don’t think she typically has a rep for making stuff up - and the article Mayfield is calling out seems built around actual quotes from pressers plus unnamed “sources”.  

[YoloinOhio]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I’ll say that I don’t follow the Cleveland new media, but I don’t think that’s a good characterization.

 

Sullivan for years was an “opinion column” man, and during the Bills drought slid into a schtick of knee-jerk negativity about everything.  EVERYTHING, even the mini-bagels in the press box.  

 

Cabot is a legitimate sports reporter.  Sure, she may try to slant things in a controversial way to generate clicks, just as Joe B does, but I don’t think she typically has a rep for making stuff up - and the article Mayfield is calling out seems built around actual quotes from pressers plus unnamed “sources”.  

That’s right. She works for the Cleveland plain dealer. She’s a real reporter. She doesn’t write her own headlines. She’s not negative. She’s not “drumming up drama”. She reports what she hears. Browns fans don’t like it because they don’t want drama around the team  but “baker the content maker” is the one driving the clicks not her. And of you listen to any objective person they will say the same thing including the radio media who have been saying any criticism of her is a joke in this regard. Only the fans in denial rag on her. 

Edited January 7, 2022 by YoloinOhio

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Baker made comments that Hudson should have had help with watt, implicating the HC 

 

Wouldn’t that be implicating the OC?  In any event, the coaching staff, which ultimately is the HC responsibility

 

Anyway, so Baker said the blocking schemes should have been different to help with Watt during the Pittsburgh game, and Stefanski said sometimes Watt did have help, and other times the ball was supposed to get out quickly before Watt got there and didn’t, which points the finger at Baker.  Meanwhile did Baker say anything about “I have to do a better job at finding the quick passes and getting the ball out”?  I’m gathering not.

 

Yeah, that doesn’t sound like Love Peace and Harmony in Berea.  Maybe Cabot is on to something.

[YoloinOhio]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Wouldn’t that be implicating the OC?  In any event, the coaching staff, which ultimately is the HC responsibility

 

Anyway, so Baker said the blocking schemes should have been different to help with Watt during the Pittsburgh game, and Stefanski said sometimes Watt did have help, and other times the ball was supposed to get out quickly before Watt got there and didn’t, which points the finger at Baker.  Meanwhile did Baker say anything about “I have to do a better job at finding the quick passes and getting the ball out”?  I’m gathering not.

 

Yeah, that doesn’t sound like Love Peace and Harmony in Berea.  Maybe Cabot is on to something.

According to the Cleveland media, his comments were directly implicating Stefanski game plan. I admittedly don’t follow the browns enough to know though whether it should be Van pelt

[Seventeen]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Wouldn’t that be implicating the OC?  In any event, the coaching staff, which ultimately is the HC responsibility

 

Anyway, so Baker said the blocking schemes should have been different to help with Watt during the Pittsburgh game, and Stefanski said sometimes Watt did have help, and other times the ball was supposed to get out quickly before Watt got there and didn’t, which points the finger at Baker.  Meanwhile did Baker say anything about “I have to do a better job at finding the quick passes and getting the ball out”?  I’m gathering not.

 

Yeah, that doesn’t sound like Love Peace and Harmony in Berea.  Maybe Cabot is on to something.

 

According to Stefanski, all good ... 

 

 

[purple haze]

12 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

I don't think they'd completely take his lunch.  Maybe steal a french fry or two when he isn't looking.  I'm sure the A's would give him a lot of time to develop considering he's only 24.  If he's tired of being hit and willing to bet on himself he could bolt to the MLB if the Cardinals won't commit to him long term.  Even if it means a year or two in the minors making far less money.  At least that's how I'd pitch it as his agent to get top dollar.

Definitely good strategy for his agent to try. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

 

According to Stefanski, all good ... 

 

 

 

I dunno, here’s the transcript of his presser

 

Here’s the key quote which I admit sounds less finger-pointy at Baker than the excerpt:

Quote

On Mayfield’s postgame comment about the Browns gameplan against the Steelers, particularly about not giving more help to T James Hudson III:

“I think it is just something when you do not accomplish what you want to accomplish, people are certainly frustrated. We will always look at what we could do better. There were plenty of times that we did have a person in location to chip and those type of things. Other times protection held up, and ultimately, whether it was we did not get the ball out, guys were not open or whatever it was, it is always a multifaceted-type thing. That is our job to look at and try to find a way and be better.”

 

Here’s the transcript of his whole post-game presser.  I have to say if it was Daboll or McDermott saying things like that about Allen, I would interpret it as “not completely sold” and “not enthusiastic”.  

 

Quote

On assessing Mayfield’s performance during the 2021 season:

“I will wait to talk about reflecting on this season. There will be time for that. Ultimately, I am frustrated for Baker, not to be able to finish the season and those type of things, but anything past that, I will wait to discuss.”……

On how Mayfield’s injury and wearing a harness on his left, non-throwing shoulder affected performance this season:

“I think throughout we have been pretty consistent and I think Baker has been pretty consistent with telling you guys how he felt week in and week out. I am not going to say that all of that did not affect it some way. Of course, it would affect it in some way, but I think he has been pretty clear that he has been ready to go in these games.”

 

It just seems like there are things he could honestly say that would be positive and complimentary to Baker that he’s not saying.  Stuff fellow players have said about his toughness and his willingness to play through the injury and give his all for the team etc etc.

 

[YoloinOhio]

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I dunno, here’s the transcript of his presser

 

Here’s the key quote which I admit sounds less finger-pointy at Baker than the excerpt:

 

Here’s the transcript of his whole post-game presser.  I have to say if it was Daboll or McDermott saying things like that about Allen, I would interpret it as “not completely sold” and “not enthusiastic”.  

 

 

It just seems like there are things he could honestly say that would be positive and complimentary to Baker that he’s not saying.  Stuff fellow players have said about his toughness and his willingness to play through the injury and give his all for the team etc etc.

 

This is what happens when a team with massive expectations fails and a solid foundation does not exist. Fingers get pointed, however subtly. 

[Seventeen]

15 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I dunno, here’s the transcript of his presser

 

Here’s the key quote which I admit sounds less finger-pointy at Baker than the excerpt:

 

Here’s the transcript of his whole post-game presser.  I have to say if it was Daboll or McDermott saying things like that about Allen, I would interpret it as “not completely sold” and “not enthusiastic”.  

 

 

It just seems like there are things he could honestly say that would be positive and complimentary to Baker that he’s not saying.  Stuff fellow players have said about his toughness and his willingness to play through the injury and give his all for the team etc etc.

 

 

Gotta admit I didn't listen to the whole presser or read the transcript - just cherry-picked Trotter's tweet. Thanks for the link. 

 

I don't doubt Stefanski would agree with the assessment about his toughness and willingness to play but that doesn't answer the burning question as to whether he still can produce at the NFL level and can he be fixed. 

 

And IMO, this quote kinda sums up where Stefanski is at with Baker ... 

 

On assessing Mayfield’s performance during the 2021 season:

“I will wait to talk about reflecting on this season. There will be time for that. Ultimately, I am frustrated for Baker, not to be able to finish the season and those type of things, but anything past that, I will wait to discuss.”……

 

... meaning I need to talk to Haslam and see if we want this guy around next year. Why doesn't he just say he expects Baker to be back to his 2020 performance level after the surgery and he's our guy ? 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Roy Hobbs

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Roy Hobbs said:

 

Gotta admit I didn't listen to the whole presser or read the transcript - just cherry-picked Trotter's tweet. Thanks for the link. 

 

I don't doubt Stefanski would agree with the assessment about his toughness and willingness to play but that doesn't answer the burning question as to whether he still can produce at the NFL level and can he be fixed. 

 

And IMO, this quote kinda sums up where Stefanski is at with Baker ... 

 

On assessing Mayfield’s performance during the 2021 season:

“I will wait to talk about reflecting on this season. There will be time for that. Ultimately, I am frustrated for Baker, not to be able to finish the season and those type of things, but anything past that, I will wait to discuss.”……

 

... meaning I need to talk to Haslam and see if we want this guy around next year. Why doesn't he just say he expects Baker to be back to his 2020 performance level after the surgery and he's our guy ? 

 

 

 

Right.

 

I was curious enough to look at Mary Kay Cabot’s twitter and saw a link to a podcast discussion Cabot’s article and Mayfield’s response.

Cabot is very clear that in addition to pressers what Mayfield has said to national reporters including Kurt Warner and Drew Brees, she had hours of conversations with multiple people.  She did say the “may ask for a trade” was possibly what upset Baker, but she explained the dots she’s connecting - if he goes into his 5th year without a contract, that’s probably it, so wouldn’t it be better to move on?

 

The podcast in general was pretty clear that they felt “no facts no sources” was unjustified (and I would say the story backs that up) 

They talked about how Baker just hasn’t built a personal relationship with most of the local media - said he has a good relationship with Jake Trotter who covered him at Oklahoma - and is not the kind of guy who would call up a reporter and say “hey, I really feel you’re putting words in my mouth with the speculation I would ask for a trade, that’s so not cool” and they could work it out (the “chip on his shoulder” thing and the ease of going on social media and having hundreds of thousands of people agree with him.)

 

Anyway, it’s clearly different than when Chris Collinsworth asked Beane after last season, whether he felt Josh Allen’s strong ties to the Buffalo community were a problem for him as far as being pressured into an extension, and how did he see believing enough to extend Josh after (CC said) one good season vs. other QB who perhaps got extended too early (Wentz was mentioned).  Beane basically shut him down - kind of chuckled and said “I do believe in Josh Allen” and that they were working on FA then would work on draft signings then would work on extensions, but also said he didn’t feel pressure to get it done this year if the two sides were too far apart.   

 

I totally get the “everything in its place and time” but Stefanski could have thrown Baker a bone and said something about “Baker’s incredibly tough, he’s played hard for us through a lot of adversity, we expect to see him back to his 2020 level once he rehabs from the injury, but any performance assessment is going to wait for the offseason right now we’re getting ready for the Bengals”

[YoloinOhio]

17 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Right.

 

I was curious enough to look at Mary Kay Cabot’s twitter and saw a link to a podcast discussion Cabot’s article and Mayfield’s response.

Cabot is very clear that in addition to pressers what Mayfield has said to national reporters including Kurt Warner and Drew Brees, she had hours of conversations with multiple people.  She did say the “may ask for a trade” was possibly what upset Baker, but she explained the dots she’s connecting - if he goes into his 5th year without a contract, that’s probably it, so wouldn’t it be better to move on?

 

The podcast in general was pretty clear that they felt “no facts no sources” was unjustified (and I would say the story backs that up) 

They talked about how Baker just hasn’t built a personal relationship with most of the local media - said he has a good relationship with Jake Trotter who covered him at Oklahoma - and is not the kind of guy who would call up a reporter and say “hey, I really feel you’re putting words in my mouth with the speculation I would ask for a trade, that’s so not cool” and they could work it out (the “chip on his shoulder” thing and the ease of going on social media and having hundreds of thousands of people agree with him.)

 

Anyway, it’s clearly different than when Chris Collinsworth asked Beane after last season, whether he felt Josh Allen’s strong ties to the Buffalo community were a problem for him as far as being pressured into an extension, and how did he see believing enough to extend Josh after (CC said) one good season vs. other QB who perhaps got extended too early (Wentz was mentioned).  Beane basically shut him down - kind of chuckled and said “I do believe in Josh Allen” and that they were working on FA then would work on draft signings then would work on extensions, but also said he didn’t feel pressure to get it done this year if the two sides were too far apart.   

 

I totally get the “everything in its place and time” but Stefanski could have thrown Baker a bone and said something about “Baker’s incredibly tough, he’s played hard for us through a lot of adversity, we expect to see him back to his 2020 level once he rehabs from the injury, but any performance assessment is going to wait for the offseason right now we’re getting ready for the Bengals”

The fact that this regime did not draft Baker has always been a factor on how they decided to approach him from an extension standpoint. He’s had more success than Sam Darnold (who also was drafted by a different regime than traded him) but his surrounding cast was also better, I could see him with the same fate. Contrast to Josh Allen and Lamar, the current regimes are those that drafted him, they are infinitely more invested in their success and the players in general. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by YoloinOhio

[Hapless Bills Fan]

40 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

The fact that this regime did not draft Baker has always been a factor on how they decided to approach him from an extension standpoint. He’s had more success than Sam Darnold (who also was drafted by a different regime than traded him) but his surrounding cast was also better, I could see him with the same fate. Contrast to Josh Allen and Lamar, the current regimes are those that drafted him, they are infinitely more invested in their success and the players in general. 

 

I can get that as a point.  

 

The fact that Mayfield has more INTs and fewer TDs than either of them may have something to do with the lack of investment as well - both Jackson and Allen have produced a better ROI.  

 

And face it, Mayfield played a role in getting Hue Jackson fired and replaced by a guy who was way over his head in Kitchens.  So if he’s playing for a regime that didn’t draft him, and has had 3 OCs in 4 years, that’s partly on him?

[Seventeen]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I can get that as a point.  

 

The fact that Mayfield has more INTs and fewer TDs than either of them may have something to do with the lack of investment as well - both Jackson and Allen have produced a better ROI.  And face it, Mayfield played a role in getting Hue Jackson fired and replaced by a guy who was way over his head in Kitchens.

 

Jackson should have been fired after the 2017 season. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Roy Hobbs said:

Jackson should have been fired after the 2017 season. 

 

Possibly

But the Kitchens experiment, wasn’t that on Baker?

[Seventeen]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Possibly

But the Kitchens experiment, wasn’t that on Baker?

 

Hard to believe a 22-year-old with limited NFL experience was given the head coach he wanted but true that. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Roy Hobbs

[YoloinOhio]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Possibly

But the Kitchens experiment, wasn’t that on Baker?

Yes. An ill advised hire because they let a rookie Qb call the shots. As it stands the only HC he’s ever gotten along with is Lincoln Riley 

[cle23]

26 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Possibly

But the Kitchens experiment, wasn’t that on Baker?

 

No. It's on John Dorsey. Dorsey himself said he didn't consult Mayfield about Kitchens.

20 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Yes. An ill advised hire because they let a rookie Qb call the shots. As it stands the only HC he’s ever gotten along with is Lincoln Riley 

 

Mayfield didn't hire Kitchens.  It was Dorsey hiring a yes man.

[Rochesterfan]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Right.

 

I was curious enough to look at Mary Kay Cabot’s twitter and saw a link to a podcast discussion Cabot’s article and Mayfield’s response.

Cabot is very clear that in addition to pressers what Mayfield has said to national reporters including Kurt Warner and Drew Brees, she had hours of conversations with multiple people.  She did say the “may ask for a trade” was possibly what upset Baker, but she explained the dots she’s connecting - if he goes into his 5th year without a contract, that’s probably it, so wouldn’t it be better to move on?

 

The podcast in general was pretty clear that they felt “no facts no sources” was unjustified (and I would say the story backs that up) 

They talked about how Baker just hasn’t built a personal relationship with most of the local media - said he has a good relationship with Jake Trotter who covered him at Oklahoma - and is not the kind of guy who would call up a reporter and say “hey, I really feel you’re putting words in my mouth with the speculation I would ask for a trade, that’s so not cool” and they could work it out (the “chip on his shoulder” thing and the ease of going on social media and having hundreds of thousands of people agree with him.)

 

Anyway, it’s clearly different than when Chris Collinsworth asked Beane after last season, whether he felt Josh Allen’s strong ties to the Buffalo community were a problem for him as far as being pressured into an extension, and how did he see believing enough to extend Josh after (CC said) one good season vs. other QB who perhaps got extended too early (Wentz was mentioned).  Beane basically shut him down - kind of chuckled and said “I do believe in Josh Allen” and that they were working on FA then would work on draft signings then would work on extensions, but also said he didn’t feel pressure to get it done this year if the two sides were too far apart.   

 

I totally get the “everything in its place and time” but Stefanski could have thrown Baker a bone and said something about “Baker’s incredibly tough, he’s played hard for us through a lot of adversity, we expect to see him back to his 2020 level once he rehabs from the injury, but any performance assessment is going to wait for the offseason right now we’re getting ready for the Bengals”

 

I think it is more than Stefanski.  Baker had issues with Beckham and that exploded on Twitter.  Then Hunt’s dad went after Baker.  I don’t get the feeling that the other Cleveland players have the same level of respect and trust of Baker.

 

Baker has been very inconsistent and with the injury this year - you really can’t question his toughness, but was he and Stefanski doing want was best for the team - playing him with all the injuries.  Also if you look at last year - Baker was very inconsistent early with 6 of the first 10 games under 200 yards and 2 additional below 220 yards.  It was late in the season - after they shut down Beckham - that he put together a nice 5 games stretch with some big wins that propelled them to the playoffs.  It is not that he had an elite 2020 - he did have a very nice stretch of games though.

 

We will see, but I don’t get the feeling many players will be truly sad if they move on from Baker.  
 

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Rochesterfan

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, cle23 said:

 

No. It's on John Dorsey. Dorsey himself said he didn't consult Mayfield about Kitchens.

 

Mayfield didn't hire Kitchens.  It was Dorsey hiring a yes man.

https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/report-baker-mayfield-broke-tie-in-freddie-kitchens-favor-during-browns-coaching-search/95-46bafde0-095f-425c-8ef2-dc4128c7cc56

Quote

Dorsey wanted Freddie Kitchens, and DePodesta wanted Vikings offensive coordinator Kevin Stefanski. And at one point, it was leaning Stefanski, but you know who broke the tie, baby? The guy who has come in and really taken everything under his power and control in Cleveland. Baker Mayfield wanted Kitchens. Baker Mayfield gets Kitchens.”

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by YoloinOhio

[ganesh]

On 1/4/2022 at 6:13 PM, mattynh said:

 

He has gone downhill performance wise from his rookie year which was pretty good.  This year is tough because he has a significant injury that he is playing through and is affecting him which could cost him a lot of money.  But I think he gets healthy, plays next year on the option and then the Browns can decide.

But he also has one of the best defense in the NFL along with a 1-2 punch at Running Back.

[cle23]

18 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/report-baker-mayfield-broke-tie-in-freddie-kitchens-favor-during-browns-coaching-search/95-46bafde0-095f-425c-8ef2-dc4128c7cc56

 

 

And there are plenty of articles that say he didn't have a say in the hiring.  Dorsey himself said Mayfield didn't have a say.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/sports/g66l-2019/01/85a2a5bc4b7005/baker-mayfields-involvement-in.html

 

 

[Richard Noggin]

I mean of course Dorsey would say Mayfield had no say in such an important decision. Whether it's true or not. It's bad GMing to admit fealty to a subordinate.