*[EDIT]* Multiple reports Browns actively shopping Mayfield pg. 29/30 - Ravens / Browns in QB contract pickle

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, eball said:

 

I mean, I understand the desire for improvement but that “antiquated and inflexible scheme” resulted in the #1 scoring defense in the NFL.  I think we’re letting 13 seconds cloud reasonable analysis here.

 

 

That defense failed when it mattered most.  The massive investment in personnel and scheme needs an overhaul because no one's content being the best unit in the regular season.  It literally means nothing. 

[BarleyNY]

29 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

The Baker Mayfield era is over. 

 

Just entertaining this scum bag alienates Baker how does it not.  

 

2 trash franchises.  

Meh.  Baker never let anything like that affect him.  He got jerked around in college.  He walked on at Texas Tech where there was an entrenched starter and wound up starting that season for them as a true freshman.  Then after getting jerked out of a scholarship there he left and walked onto Oklahoma’s team where he had to sit out a year.  Then he beat out the entrenched starter the following season.  All he did was start there for 3 seasons and became the only walk on player ever to win the Heisman trophy.  The Browns FO talking with Watson might not do anything more than piss him off Aaron Rodgers style. 

[djp14150]

On 3/14/2022 at 7:31 AM, SoTier said:

 

I disagree.  I can't think of a single QB in this century who went from decent to great because of a scheme or team change.  Matthew Stafford was great in Detroit but was dismissed by many because of the crappy franchise he played for but he was also great with the Rams, only with a good enough team around him to make him a winner.   Both Alex Smith and Kirk Cousins have been well above average QBs throughout their careers.  They were both better when they were on teams that suited them better scheme and talent wise, but they weren't trash even when they were on lesser teams.

 

In Mayfield's case, as the #1 pick in his draft class, if he's not an elite QB then he's going to be a disappointment.  I think that it's obvious that he isn't going to be elite, and maybe he's not ever going to be better than a Alex Smith or Kirk Cousins level QB, a very good starting NFL QB but not a true franchise QB even as good as Stafford or Ryan or Roethlisberger in their primes.  

 

i put Stafford in the same group as Smith and Cousins.  Good enough to win on a very good team

 

too much credit/ blame on QBs

 

i think Lamar’s value was exposed when he missed games snd the team wasn’t much different without him

 

the issue is QBs are paid so much you can pay just avg QBs

 

that “ super class” of QBs is just down to 2.

 

 

[eball]

40 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

That defense failed when it mattered most.  The massive investment in personnel and scheme needs an overhaul because no one's content being the best unit in the regular season.  It literally means nothing. 

 

You're probably not alone in your thinking...I just disagree.  The defensive scheme is fine for today's NFL.  They lost to KC for a number of reasons, but their defensive identity is not one of them.

 

While being the best defense in the regular season doesn't result in any trophies, it's a bit naive to suggest it means "nothing" to look at what a unit did over 17 meaningful games.

 

Again...13 seconds.

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

12 minutes ago, djp14150 said:

 

i put Stafford in the same group as Smith and Cousins.  Good enough to win on a very good team

 

too much credit/ blame on QBs

 

i think Lamar’s value was exposed when he missed games snd the team wasn’t much different without him

 

the issue is QBs are paid so much you can pay just avg QBs

 

that “ super class” of QBs is just down to 2.

 

 

 

Part of the issue with Lamar last year is he was just playing really badly.  He still had 4 4th quarter comebacks, and GWDs.  And if you look outside just... TDs and INTs - he had a better Y/A, AY/A and ANY/A.  LJ had higher air yards in every category too.  

 

Huntley offered similar value as a rusher but less as a passer, jackson broke 11 tackles to huntleys 3 - and had considerably more yards after contact.  

 

Jackson also put up a 37/43 442 and 4 TD performance last season against Indy.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

47 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Meh.  Baker never let anything like that affect him.  He got jerked around in college.  He walked on at Texas Tech where there was an entrenched starter and wound up starting that season for them as a true freshman.  Then after getting jerked out of a scholarship there he left and walked onto Oklahoma’s team where he had to sit out a year.  Then he beat out the entrenched starter the following season.  All he did was start there for 3 seasons and became the only walk on player ever to win the Heisman trophy.  The Browns FO talking with Watson might not do anything more than piss him off Aaron Rodgers style. 

 

I think you're missing a key point of the story, and possibly have a slightly different definition of "affect".

 

There was a previous year starter - but he was beaten out by TWO freshmen.  Davis Webb and Baker were both freshmen.  Baker did beat Webb out to start the season, but after that they were trading starts, and by some metrics Webb was better (Baker had more wins, but I don't know enough college football to judge how the level of competition in specific games impacted that; by some metrics Webb was better 20 vs 12 TDs and same INTs).  (No, I don't follow college football but I was interested in Davis Webb so I looked that up a while back.  Webb got outplayed in college... by Mayfield AND Mahomes).  If interested, here's an interview with Mayfield at the time - he makes it pretty clear it wasn't the scholarship that was the whole issue.

 

It clearly didn't "affect" Mayfield in the sense of dampening his confidence in himself or his ultimate career trajectory, but it seems he was highly "affected" in the sense of being alienated and pissed off after not getting what he perceived as his due (not just the scholarship, but the unquestioned starting role).  He didn't stay and fight for that role, he "took his ball and went home".  Ultimately, of course, it worked out for him.

 

So talking to Watson might be motivational for Mayfield, but it very well might motivate him to say "get me TF out of here if I'm not your guy".  He's already done that once.

[billybob71]

Watson wants to stay in the south where its warm, you can't wave your wee wee around when its snowin out

[Solomon Grundy]

Skip Bayless just lost all credibility with me. Said he’d take Deshaun Watson over Josh Allen!!

[Baba Booey]

4 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Skip Bayless just lost all credibility with me. Said he’d take Deshaun Watson over Josh Allen!!

He had credibility ?? He’s a Dallas homer!!

[TheFunPolice]

9 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Skip Bayless just lost all credibility with me. Said he’d take Deshaun Watson over Josh Allen!!

 

You know what's cool?

 

I can honestly say there is no current starting QB I would trade Allen for, and that's not just being a homer!

 

Mahomes is great too, but Allen can play when it gets ugly, and that is valuable. He's also shown he can play pretty football too, and that was the big question with him.

Edited March 15, 2022 by TheFunPolice

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Mr. WEO]

On 3/14/2022 at 7:31 AM, SoTier said:

 

I disagree.  I can't think of a single QB in this century who went from decent to great because of a scheme or team change.  Matthew Stafford was great in Detroit but was dismissed by many because of the crappy franchise he played for but he was also great with the Rams, only with a good enough team around him to make him a winner.   Both Alex Smith and Kirk Cousins have been well above average QBs throughout their careers.  They were both better when they were on teams that suited them better scheme and talent wise, but they weren't trash even when they were on lesser teams.

 

In Mayfield's case, as the #1 pick in his draft class, if he's not an elite QB then he's going to be a disappointment.  I think that it's obvious that he isn't going to be elite, and maybe he's not ever going to be better than a Alex Smith or Kirk Cousins level QB, a very good starting NFL QB but not a true franchise QB even as good as Stafford or Ryan or Roethlisberger in their primes.  

 

I wouldn't say that.  He had one benchmark season early on--5000+ and 41 TDs.  The very next year, he couldn't break 5000 despite an insane 727 attempts (only 20 TDs).  He would only have 1 more season of at least 30 TDs and otherwise put up Cousins -type numbers.  It may be an overall crappy franchise but they went to the playoffs 3 times with Stafford.  0-3.  In 7 career playoff games he has tossed 13 TDs on 6 ints. 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[TheFunPolice]

Watson is meeting with the Browns today, isn't he?

[Solomon Grundy]

4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

What’s a 5rd?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

51 minutes ago, djp14150 said:

i think Lamar’s value was exposed when he missed games snd the team wasn’t much different without him

 

Uh, Wat?

 

Ravens were 6-3 with Lamar.

Ravens were 1-3 with Huntley, 0-1 with Johnson

 

Now if one looks statistically, the margins are pretty thin.  But then, that's true in any game, and they're significantly positive in favor of Lamar:

Points for +4; Points against -2; 1st downs +3, Yds +56, Pass Yds +54

 

 

 

23 minutes ago, billybob71 said:

Watson wants to stay in the south where its warm, you can't wave your wee wee around when its snowin out

 

There is this thing called "Central Heating"

[Captain Hindsight]

34 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Skip Bayless just lost all credibility with me. Said he’d take Deshaun Watson over Josh Allen!!

I don't think a single GM would take Watson over Allen right now

[Doc]

43 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Skip Bayless just lost all credibility with me. Said he’d take Deshaun Watson over Josh Allen!!

 

That's why his nickname is "Braynless."

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

I don't think a single GM would take Watson over Allen right now

 

Do Bayless and Watson have the same agent? 

 

While not dissing Allen, Jordan Palmer recently raved about Watson as a QB, his level of preparation and his understanding of the game

 

I think Watson's agents are pumping up the PR forces for him.  Er, maybe I should reword that....

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

Meh.  Baker never let anything like that affect him.  He got jerked around in college.  He walked on at Texas Tech where there was an entrenched starter and wound up starting that season for them as a true freshman.  Then after getting jerked out of a scholarship there he left and walked onto Oklahoma’s team where he had to sit out a year.  Then he beat out the entrenched starter the following season.  All he did was start there for 3 seasons and became the only walk on player ever to win the Heisman trophy.  The Browns FO talking with Watson might not do anything more than piss him off Aaron Rodgers style. 

 

I totally disagree with this take.

 

Baker certainly let those interactions impact him.  He walked on and I believe he started and alternated starting.  When he did not get all the accolades - he didn’t do what others do and stay and fight to win the job.  He took his ball and left.

 

He then went on to do amazing things at Oklahoma, but came into the NFL with attitude.

 

He has already multiple times complained about support and being treated “poorly” by the media for stories that have been shown to be true.  He has a complex and when he perceives a slight - it is not - I will work harder.  It seems to be move me or let me go where I am wanted.

 

I think much like Tua was messed up by Watson early last year - this will have an impact on Baker - especially if the trade falls through.

 

Baker is not mentally strong enough without getting 100% of the accolades and glory - he wants to be the man even if it is the worst thing for the team - see most of last year and the injury.

 

 

[ArtVandalay]

17 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

I totally disagree with this take.

 

Baker certainly let those interactions impact him.  He walked on and I believe he started and alternated starting.  When he did not get all the accolades - he didn’t do what others do and stay and fight to win the job.  He took his ball and left.

 

He then went on to do amazing things at Oklahoma, but came into the NFL with attitude.

 

He has already multiple times complained about support and being treated “poorly” by the media for stories that have been shown to be true.  He has a complex and when he perceives a slight - it is not - I will work harder.  It seems to be move me or let me go where I am wanted.

 

I think much like Tua was messed up by Watson early last year - this will have an impact on Baker - especially if the trade falls through.

 

Baker is not mentally strong enough without getting 100% of the accolades and glory - he wants to be the man even if it is the worst thing for the team - see most of last year and the injury.

 

 

This 100x over.  Faker Mayfield is a mental midget fake tough guy.  Dude is so fragile. 

[without a drought]

Do you think Baker will give DeShaun a tour of his home?

[cle23]

37 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

I don't think a single GM would take Watson over Allen right now

 

 I think there are plenty that would if you go back a year and not all the off the field stuff comes into play. Obviously given the last year then I agree with you that no one would take Watson over Allen. 

 

 And as a Browns fan I'm not sure I want to make the trade for Watson just simply given what it will take to get him.  Especially since there's still a decent chance he gets suspended for part of this year or next.

[Saint Doug]

1 hour ago, Solomon Grundy said:

What’s a 5rd?

New type of comp pick that only non-Patriot teams get. 

[YoloinOhio]

So mayfield a goner either way? How do they go back to him after trying to trade for Watson? 

[B-Man]

19 minutes ago, without a drought said:

Do you think Baker will give DeShaun a tour of his home?

 

 

PLEASE trade Baker

 

so those horrible unfunny ads will be cancelled

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

So Watson doesn’t want to go to Cleveland and the Texans would rather ship him to the nfc where there are also better offers, but the browns are meeting with him anyway sabotaging any remnants of a relationship they have with their #1 overall pick QB.  On brand. 

[billsfan1959]

14 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

So Watson doesn’t want to go to Cleveland and the Texans would rather ship him to the nfc where there are also better offers, but the browns are meeting with him anyway sabotaging any remnants of a relationship they have with their #1 overall pick QB.  On brand. 

 

The "Watson Effect." Miami and now Cleveland... Apparently, massage parlors aren't the only places susceptible to the downside of a relationship (or potential relationship) with Watson...

[Punching Bag]

On 3/14/2022 at 10:37 AM, Inigo Montoya said:

 

They better move him now with all of this in the media.  I don't think Baker has the emotional maturity to deal with this kind of situation.  It's going to be a rough year for the Browns if he is still under center for them this season.

 

Baker's agent is looking for moving companies for him to be the new spokesman before he is traded.

[Doc]

26 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

So Watson doesn’t want to go to Cleveland and the Texans would rather ship him to the nfc where there are also better offers, but the browns are meeting with him anyway sabotaging any remnants of a relationship they have with their #1 overall pick QB.  On brand. 

You would think that he wouldn’t want to go there, but he agreed to meet with them. Hopefully he goes to the NFC. 

[KingBoots8]

2 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

What’s a 5rd?

Somewhere between a 3th and a 6nd. Not as good as a 4st though

Edited March 15, 2022 by KingBoots8

[BarleyNY]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think you're missing a key point of the story, and possibly have a slightly different definition of "affect".

 

There was a previous year starter - but he was beaten out by TWO freshmen.  Davis Webb and Baker were both freshmen.  Baker did beat Webb out to start the season, but after that they were trading starts, and by some metrics Webb was better (Baker had more wins, but I don't know enough college football to judge how the level of competition in specific games impacted that; by some metrics Webb was better 20 vs 12 TDs and same INTs).  (No, I don't follow college football but I was interested in Davis Webb so I looked that up a while back.  Webb got outplayed in college... by Mayfield AND Mahomes).  If interested, here's an interview with Mayfield at the time - he makes it pretty clear it wasn't the scholarship that was the whole issue.

 

It clearly didn't "affect" Mayfield in the sense of dampening his confidence in himself or his ultimate career trajectory, but it seems he was highly "affected" in the sense of being alienated and pissed off after not getting what he perceived as his due (not just the scholarship, but the unquestioned starting role).  He didn't stay and fight for that role, he "took his ball and went home".  Ultimately, of course, it worked out for him.

 

So talking to Watson might be motivational for Mayfield, but it very well might motivate him to say "get me TF out of here if I'm not your guy".  He's already done that once.

Your point is the important one moving forward after this season.  If the Watson deal doesn’t come through (likely) and Mayfield plays well enough to warrant an extension (possible), then the road ahead could be very rocky.  

[HT02]

On 3/14/2022 at 4:14 PM, SoTier said:

 

My point is simply that there haven't been any QBs who improved significantly because they were put in a better scheme -- or even on a better team.  QBs show what they can do early on, and where they are 3 or 4 years into their starting careers is about where their ceiling is.   The best ones may get better because they get smarter with experience, but I don't buy the idea that 5 or 6 years into a career some QB who's been only decent is suddenly going to emerge as an elite talent as a signal caller.  

 

Mayfield hasn't shown a lot of growth as a quarterback or as a leader in his four seasons in Cleveland, especially compared to how much Allen and Jackson have improved since they were all drafted in 2018.

I understand and don't disagree with you on that point I should have made that clear.  I was commenting on the description of Stafford's performance in Detroit as great.   Players are too often described as "great" in sports discussions and I would describe Stafford's improvement from middling to good which supports your point that he didn't become a superstar.  I don't know if the book has been written on Mayfield yet; he played better earlier in his career and the last two years have gone in the other direction but I don't think he's likely going to become a top 5 QB but its not impossible to think he could still be a top 10 guy.

[The Jokeman]

6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

So mayfield a goner either way? How do they go back to him after trying to trade for Watson? 

Houston probably Baker as part of the trade.

[H2o]

6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

So Watson doesn’t want to go to Cleveland and the Texans would rather ship him to the nfc where there are also better offers, but the browns are meeting with him anyway sabotaging any remnants of a relationship they have with their #1 overall pick QB.  On brand. 

The Browns gone Browns

[Big Blitz]

I'd be stunned if Watson chooses to play in Cleveland over a dome in New Orleans or close to home in Carolina where the weapons are better then the Browns.  

 

Either way good luck to the team getting this scumbag. 

 

I still think he ends up in Miami. 

[BruceVilanch]

6 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

Baker's agent is looking for moving companies for him to be the new spokesman before he is traded.

U-Haul presents: "On the move with Baker Mayfield."

[YoloinOhio]

13 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Houston probably Baker as part of the trade.

They don’t want him (or any players) as part of the deal. They want all draft picks and are going to roll with Davis Mills at Qb. Heard this on radio 

[BuffaloBills1998]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/03/15/report-browns-could-trade-baker-mayfield-even-if-they-dont-get-deshaun-watson/

[CorkScrewHill]

10 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Skip Bayless just lost all credibility with me. Said he’d take Deshaun Watson over Josh Allen!!

Skip Bayless still thinks Mayfield is better than Josh .. that is the really crazy position. Watson at least is an excellent quarterback. Yet the Texans ( yes those Texans) wouldn’t even want him in the trade 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/03/15/report-browns-could-trade-baker-mayfield-even-if-they-dont-get-deshaun-watson/