Many on this board deserve a pat on the back

[78thealltimegreat]

All off season posters on here argued about the Bills needs

We needed depth at TE 

We needed to upgrade guard play

We needed a RB who can break first contact 

We needed a DT to stop power running attacks with Star being uncertain at the time 

This front office did none of these things and decided to just wind it back

The Jags game and the Colts game where just things that where percolating coming to a head 

These things are all fixable but man we just threw away a year in our Super Bowl window because our front office believed only one team existed in the AFC that being the Chiefs 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Agreed. I wanted a C/G in round two. Brown looks ok so far as a RT. Wanted to keep Lee Smith.  Rousseau has been ok. At least he is getting playing time. Epenesa and Basham are not providing anything. 

[Bleedbuffaloblue]

We have been and would be better with Star and Spencer in the lineup. Too bad their me first attitude is hurting the team big time and unfortunately it’s not over yet.

[Marvlevydraftdaygenius]

1 minute ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Agreed. I wanted a C/G in round two. Brown looks ok so far as a RT. Wanted to keep Lee Smith.  Rousseau has been ok. At least he is getting playing time. Epenesa and Basham are not providing anything. 

Basham and Epenesa don't play.  I am going to Quote Michael Hayes when talking about Fritz von Erich.  "There is a market out there rather than Texas".  McDermott and Bean "There is a market out there to find players other than Carolina".

[bigduke6]

was a weak O LIne draft this year,  and where we were picking i believe Beane thought it best to address the D Line due to its depth in the draft.    plus,   the guys we did have are getting old and will need to be decided upon when i comes to letting go,  new contracts etc.   drafting D LIne allowes Beane more flexibility this coming offseason.    he couldnt foresee the injuries on the O Line.   Mongo while being merely average is a huge upgrade over having to rely on Ford,  and Brown was starting to play very well until u know what happened.     

 

Beane is no dummy,  he will def address O Line this offseason.   keep in mind that we were cap strapped this offseason so anybody who thinks we could have found something worthwhile for the O Line via free agency is dreaming.  

 

 

[Governor]

The draft raw/high ceiling model certainly failed so far.

 

There we’re plenty of RB’s available in FA. That was just arrogance.

 

Star was a total debacle. That in itself should be a fireable offense.

 

Before the draft I said we needed a RB, a Beas replacement, and a DT to replace Star.

 

They did none of those things.

[Brennan Huff]

This team is in serious trouble. The Saints are going to run all over us too

[Doc Brown]

6 minutes ago, Bleedbuffaloblue said:

We have been and would be better with Star and Spencer in the lineup. Too bad their me first attitude is hurting the team big time and unfortunately it’s not over yet.

Based on McDermott's "respect their decision" quote after the game I'm guessing both were unvaccinated so Brown will be out against the Saints too.

[Bruffalo]

Just now, Doc Brown said:

Based on McDermott's "respect their decision" quote after the game I'm guessing both were unvaccinated so Brown will be out against the Saints too.

It's amazing how many players are choosing the selfish option after watching their teammate Dion Dawkins say publicly that there were times he wasn't sure he was going to make it during his bout with COVID. 

 

And before anyone jumps down my throat: I believe it's the selfish choice, not that they should not have a choice.

[Governor]

2 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

Can't blame the Bills' struggles on this.

 

These are the same struggles as previous seasons, with no serious attempt to fix them.

That goes on Beane for drafting/signing them. It’s unfortunate but it’s true.

[ticketssince61]

It is very easy to say "we should have addressed  <fill in the blank [RB, OL, ...] >

 

But you can't conjure these players out of thin air. With the salary cap down for the year and us at or near the cap, there was very little flexibility to bring in free agents.

 

Yes, we could have let Williams and Feliciano walk, but then we would have needed to sign their replacements, on an if/come basis

 

There are only 7 draft picks, and we were drafting toward the bottom of each round. As it is, we got two starters in Rousseau and Brown out of of our first 3 picks, and DE and OT are both key positions

 

On the other hand, my criticisms of Beane are that 

a) he has too high a propensity to trade up in the draft which costs us depth as we give up additional draft picks for those players

b) I think he has too much of a "build for the consistent future mentality" as opposed to "win now". i.e. should not be drafting projects even if in the long run they were the right pick

 

 

 

 

[Success]

I feel like Beane has a blind spot. I think he's brilliant - but he miscalculated BADLY on the O-line and RB's.

 

I can see the psychology of that. We have amazing WR's, and an MVP caliber QB (sorry - that's a true story, despite today).  He probably thought that would be enough, as long as we had a competent running game & blocking.  And from there, he probably talked himself into the idea that the talent in both of those units was, in fact, competent.

 

But it's not. It's November, and every fan of this team is trying to figure out how we can go on a run and make the SB with such glaring flaws in 2 incredibly vital units.

 

[BuffaloRebound]

I think we needed a couple more respected veterans who were chasing rings.  These guys clearly got too full of themselves after last year.  McBeane brought everybody back and exchanged Brown for Sanders.  Team needed an infusion of a little more new blood.  

Edited November 21, 2021 by BuffaloRebound

[Ross Murdock]

Some posters are comparing this season to the Bills 89' season when they regressed after the 88' AFC Champion appearance, and then went to 4 SB's. I'm sorry but I don't see ANY Bruce Smiths - Thurmon Thomas - Kent Hull's - Darryl Talley's - Andre Reed's on this team. And I'd take a 26 YO Jim Kelly any day over Josh. This is a finesse defense, that can't take a punch in the mouth. I'm afraid the Bills will be rolled over twice by the hated Pats. After just one year, the Pats will be king of the East once again. Bill's just don't EVER seem to get that BIG players almost always beat SMALLER players. Were about to be manhandled twice by the Pats. Anybody want to compare Pats GM Belichick to Beane? It's sad.          

[78thealltimegreat]

2 minutes ago, Ross Murdock said:

Some posters are comparing this season to the Bills 89' season when they regressed after the 88' AFC Champion appearance, and then went to 4 SB's. I'm sorry but I don't see ANY Bruce Smiths - Thurmon Thomas - Kent Hull's - Darryl Talley's - Andre Reed's on this team. And I'd take a 26 YO Jim Kelly any day over Josh. This is a finesse defense, that can't take a punch in the mouth. I'm afraid the Bills will be rolled over twice by the hated Pats. After just one year, the Pats will be king of the East once again. Bill's just don't EVER seem to get that BIG players almost always beat SMALLER players. Were about to be manhandled twice by the Pats. Anybody want to compare Pats GM Belichick to Beane? It's sad.          

Yeh but you’re a pats fan so I think you’d be happy with the Bills mismanaging things 

[PatsFanNH]

1 hour ago, bigduke6 said:

was a weak O LIne draft this year,  and where we were picking i believe Beane thought it best to address the D Line due to its depth in the draft.    plus,   the guys we did have are getting old and will need to be decided upon when i comes to letting go,  new contracts etc.   drafting D LIne allowes Beane more flexibility this coming offseason.    he couldnt foresee the injuries on the O Line.   Mongo while being merely average is a huge upgrade over having to rely on Ford,  and Brown was starting to play very well until u know what happened.     

 

Beane is no dummy,  he will def address O Line this offseason.   keep in mind that we were cap strapped this offseason so anybody who thinks we could have found something worthwhile for the O Line via free agency is dreaming.  

 

 

How is Rousoue doing? I ask because Baremore has excelled for the Pats and keeps getting better. 

Edited November 21, 2021 by PatsFanNH

[Bob in STL]

2 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

All off season posters on here argued about the Bills needs

We needed depth at TE 

We needed to upgrade guard play

We needed a RB who can break first contact 

We needed a DT to stop power running attacks with Star being uncertain at the time 

This front office did none of these things and decided to just wind it back

The Jags game and the Colts game where just things that where percolating coming to a head 

These things are all fixable but man we just threw away a year in our Super Bowl window because our front office believed only one team existed in the AFC that being the Chiefs 

True but most people wanted a pass rusher with the first pick. There is a school of though here not to take OG/C or RB in round #1. 
 

I like the Rousseau pick and still do.  
 

We had some excellent OG/C options at 2.  He could have upgraded guard. 
 

TE depth was not addressed, the hope was Knox gets better, which he has.  I just wish we had a guy like Lee Smith. We do miss his blocking, red zone catches, and leadership.  
 

RB - we brought in Brieda.  He should play more and get more touches.  
 

DT -  went with DE Boogie in round 2.  

Edited November 22, 2021 by Bob in STL

[DCofNC]

6 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

How is Rousoue doing? I ask because Baremore has excelled for the Pats and keeps getting better. 

Groot is playing well, not upset with that pick, but Basham was a wasted pick, along with AJE last year.. oh and Oliver, Beane has been pretty awful in the draft if we are being honest.

[BuffaloRebound]

Barmore was too big and physical for McBeane.  The analytics tell them to take finesse guys.  

[Bob in STL]

16 hours ago, bigduke6 said:

was a weak O LIne draft this year,  and where we were picking i believe Beane thought it best to address the D Line due to its depth in the draft.    plus,   the guys we did have are getting old and will need to be decided upon when i comes to letting go,  new contracts etc.   drafting D LIne allowes Beane more flexibility this coming offseason.    he couldnt foresee the injuries on the O Line.   Mongo while being merely average is a huge upgrade over having to rely on Ford,  and Brown was starting to play very well until u know what happened.     

 

Beane is no dummy,  he will def address O Line this offseason.   keep in mind that we were cap strapped this offseason so anybody who thinks we could have found something worthwhile for the O Line via free agency is dreaming.  

 

 

Hitting on a premium OL draft pick and then on a medium level free agent - that will help.  
 

We have to improve the depth.  McD seems afraid to play anyone below Ford  on the depth chart.  We have Tommy Doyle, Jamal Douglas, and Ryan Bates.  

Edited November 22, 2021 by Bob in STL

[whorlnut]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Agreed. I wanted a C/G in round two. Brown looks ok so far as a RT. Wanted to keep Lee Smith.  Rousseau has been ok. At least he is getting playing time. Epenesa and Basham are not providing anything. 

Exactly. Man, Creed Humphrey would look nice in a Bills uniform right now. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, Bleedbuffaloblue said:

We have been and would be better with Star and Spencer in the lineup. Too bad their me first attitude is hurting the team big time and unfortunately it’s not over yet.

 

I'd let Star off the hook as rumor has it he's a Morman and vaccines are very controversial for their religion.  Even if the NFL made vaccines mandatory, he'd be one of the few with a legit religious exemption request.

 

But agree overall hard to be a SB competitive team and be one of the league leaders in least players vaxxed.

[All_Pro_Bills]

19 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

Hitting on a premium OL draft pick and than on a medium level free agent - that will help.  
 

We have to improve the depth.  McD seems afraid to play anyone below Ford  on the depth chart.  We have Tommy Doyle, Jamal Douglas, and Ryan Bates.  

I have a hard time thinking Bates isn't worth a shot at RG with Brown out.  Or keep Williams at RG and move somebody into the RT spot off the bench. 

 

What gives me optimism is we have our franchise QB but he needs a little more help as these areas being pointed out here need to be addressed.  So we should be right there and remain competitive for the next 10 years or so.  But right now as built this team has some glaring holes that good teams will exploit. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by All_Pro_Bills

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

19 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

Hitting on a premium OL draft pick and than on a medium level free agent - that will help.  
 

We have to improve the depth.  McD seems afraid to play anyone below Ford  on the depth chart.  We have Tommy Doyle, Jamal Douglas, and Ryan Bates.  

 

Maybe because he's seen them play??  In Bates case, it may be they don't want to risk an injury to their only backup center, and you have a starter with a history of concussions.  But may have been worth the risk, though may also be they know the improvement isn't great enough to take the risk.

[sven233]

As much credit as Beane gets, and he does deserve some of it for sure, he never finishes the job the way he should.  There have been some glaring weaknesses on this team for year that he has ignored for too long and it is coming back to bite us in perhaps the season we may have had our best chance to win the whole thing we have had, and maybe will have, for a while. 

 

This offensive line has not been good for years.  While I do think we have a couple of good pieces, our Guards are absolutely awful.  While we are better with Brown in the lineup for sure, he may be the only guy on the line with any physicality and nastiness to him, and no......Mongo ain't it either.  Everyone else relies on finesse to win and, while fine against some teams, it becomes an issue when you play physical defensive lines.  As I mentioned, I like Brown and think he will be good for us for a long time, we shouldn't be relying on a 3rd round rookie being our most physical lineman at this point.  Dawkins has been off this year, but he's fine.  And while we have had decent center play most of the year, it may be time to move on.  Our entire interior line should be replaced, and we should already be in a better place than it is. 

 

You can say the same about our D-line.  It is not physical enough and hasn't been for years.  While I think Groot has a chance to be a good one, and Oliver has been much better this year, we have been missing that big, nasty space eating monster in the middle for years.  And, Star isn't that and hasn't been it since he got here.  If you want to play Oliver, and I actually have no problem if you do, you need an absolutely huge run stuffing beast next to him. 

 

And of course, there is always the issue we have at 2nd CB.  While Wallace has been better this year, he's never been the guy we have needed opposite White.

 

Of course there are more issues, but these have been glaring shortcomings on this team that haven't been addressed and it's just frustrating that so many of us have been onto this for a couple year now, but they have just continued to ignore it.

[Big Blitz]

All facts.  

 

But we were missing Star Tre Feliciano and Brown today in the worst possible matchup for that to happen.

 

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

Thank you.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

43 minutes ago, sven233 said:

As much credit as Beane gets, and he does deserve some of it for sure, he never finishes the job the way he should.  There have been some glaring weaknesses on this team for year that he has ignored for too long and it is coming back to bite us in perhaps the season we may have had our best chance to win the whole thing we have had, and maybe will have, for a while. 

 

This offensive line has not been good for years.  While I do think we have a couple of good pieces, our Guards are absolutely awful.  While we are better with Brown in the lineup for sure, he may be the only guy on the line with any physicality and nastiness to him, and no......Mongo ain't it either.  Everyone else relies on finesse to win and, while fine against some teams, it becomes an issue when you play physical defensive lines.  As I mentioned, I like Brown and think he will be good for us for a long time, we shouldn't be relying on a 3rd round rookie being our most physical lineman at this point.  Dawkins has been off this year, but he's fine.  And while we have had decent center play most of the year, it may be time to move on.  Our entire interior line should be replaced, and we should already be in a better place than it is. 

 

You can say the same about our D-line.  It is not physical enough and hasn't been for years.  While I think Groot has a chance to be a good one, and Oliver has been much better this year, we have been missing that big, nasty space eating monster in the middle for years.  And, Star isn't that and hasn't been it since he got here.  If you want to play Oliver, and I actually have no problem if you do, you need an absolutely huge run stuffing beast next to him. 

 

And of course, there is always the issue we have at 2nd CB.  While Wallace has been better this year, he's never been the guy we have needed opposite White.

 

Of course there are more issues, but these have been glaring shortcomings on this team that haven't been addressed and it's just frustrating that so many of us have been onto this for a couple year now, but they have just continued to ignore it.

 

The problem I have with the Oline is 7 of the same guys were here last season and they certainly while not great and did struggle running the ball, we had one of the top offenses in the league overall.  Think it was a case of D line was higher priority and limited money to play with, do agree needs much work this off season.  Tackles are OK, think Dawkins is not completely healthy.  If I were running things would sign top FA guard, draft a guard/center high, bring back either Mongo or Williams as one inside starter, and also draft another one in maybe around the 4th as a backup.

 

This is Fords 3rd season, his rookie year played most of pre-season at guard due to injuries, then played all regular season at tackle, they certainly didn't do him any favors in his development by jerking him around as much as they did. 

 

Last year they kept his at guard, again while not great, looked OK and assumption was learning.  After no pre-season at all, he played week #1, got nicked up week 2 and played maybe 3/4 of game, came back played weeks 3,4,&5, then again  got hurt week 6, maybe in 3rd or 4th quarter, sat out next two games, then came back played maybe 2 or 3 series, then got hurt and was out for the year.

 

His lack of playing time made it tough on the team to evaluate whether he'd be an adequate starter this year or not.  An in the limited he did play last season, looked ok and the hope was he'd improve with experience.  But that hasn't seemed to have happened at all.  Maybe there is something physically wrong with him still or again??

 

Many here will claim they knew he was terrible, but if these posters really knew these things, they wouldn't be posting here, instead working in the NFL.  But his poor play has certainly handicapped the team this year as were counting on him to be at least a solid adequate player.

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, Success said:

I feel like Beane has a blind spot. I think he's brilliant - but he miscalculated BADLY on the O-line and RB's.

 

I can see the psychology of that. We have amazing WR's, and an MVP caliber QB (sorry - that's a true story, despite today).  He probably thought that would be enough, as long as we had a competent running game & blocking.  And from there, he probably talked himself into the idea that the talent in both of those units was, in fact, competent.

 

But it's not. It's November, and every fan of this team is trying to figure out how we can go on a run and make the SB with such glaring flaws in 2 incredibly vital units.

 

Yea but he knew last year our OL has serious issues. He was smart enough to acquire Breida only to sit him most of the season.  Absolutely no one fears Moss or Singletary. Daboll's ability to restructure his scheme has yet to happen. Teams will continue to use Cover2, occasionally blitz Josh and ignore whatever RB. Meanwhile they'll run the ball down our throats. We're in deep trouble. 

[Dablitzkrieg]

2 hours ago, DCofNC said:

Groot is playing well, not upset with that pick, but Basham was a wasted pick, along with AJE last year.. oh and Oliver, Beane has been pretty awful in the draft if we are being honest.

You haven't watched much this year huh?  Oliver is doing very well

[Reed83HOF]

2 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Yea but he knew last year our OL has serious issues. He was smart enough to acquire Breida only to sit him most of the season.  Absolutely no one fears Moss or Singletary. Daboll's ability to restructure his scheme has yet to happen. Teams will continue to use Cover2, occasionally blitz Josh and ignore whatever RB. Meanwhile they'll run the ball down our throats. We're in deep trouble. 

 

Daboll doesn't have the players to beat C2; namely a running game to pull the safety down.

 

We are not a good run blocking OL and our RBs are trash (they can't win a one on one to make 1 player miss). Breida needs to be RB1 the rest of the way - we need the speed.

 

RB, OG and TE were my wants over last off season, thankfully Knox has developed at least.

 

 

 

[Reed83HOF]

4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Dude come on. FA was loaded with pass rushers. They passed on all of them…. This just sounds like excuse making for the off-season decisions.

if you want to sign someone, you can make room...

[SCBills]

I don’t think anyone bemoans the Rousseau pick, but the Epenesa/Basham tandem is really frustrating at the moment. 
 

As is the money we’ve spent on Hughes/Addison when we could’ve moved off one, or both.  
 

WAY too much defensive capital being spent for a team that’s gotten manhandled by 2 of the 3 good teams we’ve played so far.   
 

Especially when that capital could’ve been spent to protect our QB and build a running game.  

[Wizard]

It was for this very reason that the Bills had to go “all-in” this year. Allen’s contract going forward will make each season harder. 
 

A mauling guard, a better running back, and doing something to stop talented running games with DT/DE that punish was the recipe.

 

Instead, the Bills wasted this season and were f***** gobbled up by the Colts because the team decided to “play not to lose” with acquisitions rather than play to win.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BuffaloRebound]

Beane gave the coaches a mauling Guard in Teller and they didn’t want him.  He signed Breida and they’d rather stick with the Singletary/Moss tandem.  A change definitely needs to be made on the Offensive coaching staff.  

[DCbillsfan]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Yea but he knew last year our OL has serious issues. He was smart enough to acquire Breida only to sit him most of the season.  Absolutely no one fears Moss or Singletary. Daboll's ability to restructure his scheme has yet to happen. Teams will continue to use Cover2, occasionally blitz Josh and ignore whatever RB. Meanwhile they'll run the ball down our throats. We're in deep trouble. 

Very sobering yet accurate imo

[ngbills]

2 hours ago, Wizard said:

It was for this very reason that the Bills had to go “all-in” this year. Allen’s contract going forward will make each season harder. 
 

A mauling guard, a better running back, and doing something to stop talented running games with DT/DE that punish was the recipe.

 

Instead, the Bills wasted this season and were f***** gobbled up by the Colts because the team decided to “play not to lose” with acquisitions rather than play to win.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This was the season to more than they did.

[bmur66]

I have never typed so many responses and then backspaced them as I have this morning

[Bill from NYC]

13 hours ago, Marvlevydraftdaygenius said:

Basham and Epenesa don't play.  I am going to Quote Michael Hayes when talking about Fritz von Erich.  "There is a market out there rather than Texas".  McDermott and Bean "There is a market out there to find players other than Carolina".

Either way, your screen name easily ranks in the top 10 in the history of this board.

[Marvlevydraftdaygenius]

2 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Either way, your screen name easily ranks in the top 10 in the history of this board.

Yes thank you I should not take full credit for it you should send credit to ProFootballTalk for starting the name.  But let’s look into some of levy’s drafts. 
 

I remember when he was adamant about drafting Eric molds people called it a bust was he a bust?

 

I remember when he drafted Marshawn Lynch people did not like it did you like it?

 

I remember him drafting a guy by the name of Kyle Williams was Kyle bad?

 

I remember him picking up a unknown in Fred Jackson was he good?

 

I remember when he wanted to draft Patrick Willis and tried to trade up for him but couldn’t and settled with poz was that a good pick?

 

Marv was the one who drafted daunte witner was he good?

 

Dam I remember when Marv brought in Langston Walker and became a fan favorite.

 

He did draft Trent Edwards say what you want but I believe the Buffalo media destroyed that pick more then the way Trent played.