Many on this board deserve a pat on the back

[Thurman#1]

13 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

All off season posters on here argued about the Bills needs

We needed depth at TE 

We needed to upgrade guard play

We needed a RB who can break first contact 

We needed a DT to stop power running attacks with Star being uncertain at the time 

This front office did none of these things and decided to just wind it back

The Jags game and the Colts game where just things that where percolating coming to a head 

These things are all fixable but man we just threw away a year in our Super Bowl window because our front office believed only one team existed in the AFC that being the Chiefs 

 

 

Um, those were indeed a few of the things people said. But there were a million more.

 

We needed to re-sign Milano. We did.

We need to get rid of Lotulelei. Thank goodness we didn't.

We shouldn't pick up Edmunds' option. Again, this was nuts, and doing it was not just an easy decision but has turned out to be a great move.

Morse sucks and we need to start getting rid of him. We need to move Edmunds outside, we need to move Dawkins to guard ... the nutsiness went on and on and on.

 

And lots of other real needs were addressed by the FO.

 

There were indeed, as you say, some good thoughts that looked reasonable at the time and now.

 

Thing is, we have limited resources. Of course we could have used upgrades at many places. So could every team. But that's not how it works. You can't do everything you want, especially when you've been undercut by the salary cap drop due to COVID.

 

 

 

[mannc]

9 hours ago, SCBills said:

I don’t think anyone bemoans the Rousseau pick, but the Epenesa/Basham tandem is really frustrating at the moment. 
 

As is the money we’ve spent on Hughes/Addison when we could’ve moved off one, or both.  
 

WAY too much defensive capital being spent for a team that’s gotten manhandled by 2 of the 3 good teams we’ve played so far.   
 

Especially when that capital could’ve been spent to protect our QB and build a running game.  

Don’t look now, but our WR core is going to need a serious injection of talent after this year too. We’ve really got no one to stretch the field, and Beasley and Sanders probably won’t be back regardless.  And of course there’s nothing behind Knox at TE…

[colin]

9 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Beane gave the coaches a mauling Guard in Teller and they didn’t want him.  He signed Breida and they’d rather stick with the Singletary/Moss tandem.  A change definitely needs to be made on the Offensive coaching staff.  

 

 

dude, this is a very very good point.

 

the fact that breida gets no burn, but CLEARLY outperforms the other two backs, and that these coaches just couldn't get teller any snaps, and had to ditch spain (yeah he's a clown, but he can play better than anyone we have between the tackles) and somehow thought fat sloppy ford could be a player just shows me they don't have any concept of oline play and coaching.

[Bill from NYC]

4 minutes ago, Marvlevydraftdaygenius said:

Yes thank you I should not take full credit for it you should send credit to ProFootballTalk for starting the name.  But let’s look into some of levy’s drafts. 
 

I remember when he was adamant about drafting Eric molds people called it a bust was he a bust?

 

I remember when he drafted Marshawn Lynch people did not like it did you like it?

 

I remember him drafting a guy by the name of Kyle Williams was Kyle bad?

 

I remember him picking up a unknown in Fred Jackson was he good?

 

I remember when he wanted to draft Patrick Willis and tried to trade up for him but couldn’t and settled with poz was that a good pick?

 

Marv was the one who drafted daunte witner was he good?

 

Dam I remember when Marv brought in Langston Walker and became a fan favorite.

 

He did draft Trent Edwards say what you want but I believe the Buffalo media destroyed that pick more then the way Trent played.

 

 

Marv was horrible on draft day, almost to the point of Rich Kotite bad if not his equal. 

 

Whitner? He was a stunningly bad pick. He was taken at #8 as an undersized safety in a loaded draft. Kyle Williams was a GREAT pick in 2006. Every other pick in that draft was a disaster and we were stacked with early picks. We even traded up to take John McGargo who was unspeakably bad. 

Langston Walker was terrible, as was Derrick Dockery who Levy made a very rich man. As I recall they were both free agent signings, idiotic at that.

 

Levy stayed on too long as head coach. By the time he was GM he was inept and senile, but look at who hired him.

 

Levy seems like a nice man, but I am talking about football here. Sorry, I thought that the screen name was selected to be humorous.

 

[Hebert19]

13 hours ago, Marvlevydraftdaygenius said:

Basham and Epenesa don't play.  I am going to Quote Michael Hayes when talking about Fritz von Erich.  "There is a market out there rather than Texas".  McDermott and Bean "There is a market out there to find players other than Carolina".

It's time to move in from Hughes and Addison too.  Love Jerry but the young guys need snaps to make sure they are the future. 

[Marvlevydraftdaygenius]

20 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Marv was horrible on draft day, almost to the point of Rich Kotite bad if not his equal. 

 

Whitner? He was a stunningly bad pick. He was taken at #8 as an undersized safety in a loaded draft. Kyle Williams was a GREAT pick in 2006. Every other pick in that draft was a disaster and we were stacked with early picks. We even traded up to take John McGargo who was unspeakably bad. 

Langston Walker was terrible, as was Derrick Dockery who Levy made a very rich man. As I recall they were both free agent signings, idiotic at that.

 

Levy stayed on too long as head coach. By the time he was GM he was inept and senile, but look at who hired him.

 

Levy seems like a nice man, but I am talking about football here. Sorry, I thought that the screen name was selected to be humorous.

 

Langston was a fan favorite whitner went to the pro bowl John Margo when played almost beat the giants by himself Derrick dockery played pretty well inside not a lot of penetration like we see now but are you going to tell me drafting pretty much hall of famers is bad? 

[SCBills]

57 minutes ago, mannc said:

Don’t look now, but our WR core is going to need a serious injection of talent after this year too. We’ve really got no one to stretch the field, and Beasley and Sanders probably won’t be back regardless.  And of course there’s nothing behind Knox at TE…

Thankfully, even with Allen’s contract, we have a lot of money coming off the books.  
 

Tough decisions on Oliver and Edmunds… If we re-sign them, aside from drafting a run stuffer or two for the middle of the D, all draft picks better be going to Offense.  
 

Thankfully there’s a ton of good WR’s coming into the league lately.   Still alot of season left, but I’d be perfectly ok moving off Sanders/Cole and drafting the Pitt WR or Bama speedster, a couple IOL and then making a FA move for any good TE depth out there. 
 

I do think we’re in good shape long term… the guys coming off the books aren’t exactly contributing a ton this year and/or are in need of upgrading anyway.  
 

Edited November 22, 2021 by SCBills

[Bill from NYC]

27 minutes ago, Marvlevydraftdaygenius said:

Langston was a fan favorite whitner went to the pro bowl John Margo when played almost beat the giants by himself Derrick dockery played pretty well inside not a lot of penetration like we see now but are you going to tell me drafting pretty much hall of famers is bad? 

I think that we should agree to disagree.

[Marvlevydraftdaygenius]

3 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Thankfully, even with Allen’s contract, we have a lot of money coming off the books.  
 

Tough decisions on Oliver and Edmunds… If we re-sign them, aside from drafting a run stuffer or two for the middle of the D, all draft picks better be going to Offense.  
 

Thankfully there’s a ton of good WR’s coming into the league lately.   Still alot of season left, but I’d be perfectly ok moving off Sanders/Cole and drafting the Pitt WR or Bama speedster, a couple IOL and then making a FA move for any good TE depth out there. 
 

I do think we’re in good shape long term… the guys coming off the books aren’t exactly contributing a ton this year and/or are in need of upgrading anyway.  
 

How many first round picks do we need to draft on defense to know Lelia Frazier I will not call him Leslie any more to know that the Einstein has mental lapses.

[Marvlevydraftdaygenius]

17 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

I think that we should agree to disagree.

Fine but I think Marv did a hell of a job here he did the best what he was given.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Marvlevydraftdaygenius

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

Idk about drafting a guard in round 2. Cody Ford was a round 2 guard. 

[mannc]

32 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Thankfully, even with Allen’s contract, we have a lot of money coming off the books.  
 

Tough decisions on Oliver and Edmunds… If we re-sign them, aside from drafting a run stuffer or two for the middle of the D, all draft picks better be going to Offense.  
 

Thankfully there’s a ton of good WR’s coming into the league lately.   Still alot of season left, but I’d be perfectly ok moving off Sanders/Cole and drafting the Pitt WR or Bama speedster, a couple IOL and then making a FA move for any good TE depth out there. 
 

I do think we’re in good shape long term… the guys coming off the books aren’t exactly contributing a ton this year and/or are in need of upgrading anyway.  
 

I’m sure he won’t make much of a difference this year, but I’d kinda like to see what Stevenson can do.  At least give him a chance in the return game…

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Um, those were indeed a few of the things people said. But there were a million more.

 

We needed to re-sign Milano. We did.

We need to get rid of Lotulelei. Thank goodness we didn't.

We shouldn't pick up Edmunds' option. Again, this was nuts, and doing it was not just an easy decision but has turned out to be a great move.

Morse sucks and we need to start getting rid of him. We need to move Edmunds outside, we need to move Dawkins to guard ... the nutsiness went on and on and on.

 

And lots of other real needs were addressed by the FO.

 

There were indeed, as you say, some good thoughts that looked reasonable at the time and now.

 

Thing is, we have limited resources. Of course we could have used upgrades at many places. So could every team. But that's not how it works. You can't do everything you want, especially when you've been undercut by the salary cap drop due to COVID.

 

 

 

And we’re going to have limited resources every season going forward.  While you can’t do everything you want, you can still make better decisions.  

 

The resigning of Feliciano and Williams turned out to be a catastrophe.  Bringing back the same exact OL as we had last season was some how a good plan?  Did they not see how last season ended?  It ended because we were too one dimensional.  To improve our run game, we did what exactly?  Spencer Brown wasn’t even supposed to start this year.  Daryl Williams wasn’t paid that contract so he could move to RG.  Feliciano is a backup caliber OG.  Ford and boettger stink.  They always have.  Doyle has no business on an active roster.  Bates can’t beat out Ford or Ike.  Shows how good he is.  Give me Vlad Ducasse over our current guards.  
 

We lost our only good blocking TE and replaced him with a WR playing TE (who was cut).  I was hoping that we’d add another TE so we would be able to show some different looks on offense.  Maybe help our run game out some while giving our play action a boost.   
 

We needed speed @ RB and only decided to bring in a speed Rb destined to be inactive most of the year.   
 

It looked as if the FO decided to take on the identity of being a pass first, second and last team based on our roster moves rather than try to force the opposing defenses to play us more honest and develop a better running game.  Big mistake.  
 

hopefully we can revamp the OL next season, but I wouldn’t doubt it if our OL looks like Dawkins-new LG-Feliciano- Williams- brown next year until Feliciano gets hurt again.  Maybe a year+ covid free will allow dawkins to get back to himself too.  
 

I’d also suggest that the bills pr department chill out some.  They’ve done some good stuff but overall, they’ve reminded me of Apollo Creeds ring entrance vs Drago in Rocky 4.  Too much.  

[Pete]

I will bang the table for OL and RB until we have adequate SB talent at those postions

[Rico]

55 minutes ago, Rock-A-Bye Beasley said:

Idk about drafting a guard in round 2. Cody Ford was a round 2 guard. 

Agreed. Dump Bobby Johnson instead and bring in someone who can coach players up.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Rico

[Bob in STL]

13 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

All facts.  

 

But we were missing Star Tre Feliciano and Brown today in the worst possible matchup for that to happen.

 

Tre played.  Every team has injuries.  
 

Last year we played without Star, we had games with Milano out and Edmunds playing with a bad shoulder.   
 

Injuries are part of the game.  Depth on the OL is a huge problem. 

[Big Blitz]

9 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

Tre played.  Every team has injuries.  
 

Last year we played without Star, we had games with Milano out and Edmunds playing with a bad shoulder.   
 

Injuries are part of the game.  Depth on the OL is a huge problem. 

 

 

Edmunds 

[Marvlevydraftdaygenius]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

And we’re going to have limited resources every season going forward.  While you can’t do everything you want, you can still make better decisions.  

 

The resigning of Feliciano and Williams turned out to be a catastrophe.  Bringing back the same exact OL as we had last season was some how a good plan?  Did they not see how last season ended?  It ended because we were too one dimensional.  To improve our run game, we did what exactly?  Spencer Brown wasn’t even supposed to start this year.  Daryl Williams wasn’t paid that contract so he could move to RG.  Feliciano is a backup caliber OG.  Ford and boettger stink.  They always have.  Doyle has no business on an active roster.  Bates can’t beat out Ford or Ike.  Shows how good he is.  Give me Vlad Ducasse over our current guards.  
 

We lost our only good blocking TE and replaced him with a WR playing TE (who was cut).  I was hoping that we’d add another TE so we would be able to show some different looks on offense.  Maybe help our run game out some while giving our play action a boost.   
 

We needed speed @ RB and only decided to bring in a speed Rb destined to be inactive most of the year.   
 

It looked as if the FO decided to take on the identity of being a pass first, second and last team based on our roster moves rather than try to force the opposing defenses to play us more honest and develop a better running game.  Big mistake.  
 

hopefully we can revamp the OL next season, but I wouldn’t doubt it if our OL looks like Dawkins-new LG-Feliciano- Williams- brown next year until Feliciano gets hurt again.  Maybe a year+ covid free will allow dawkins to get back to himself too.  
 

I’d also suggest that the bills pr department chill out some.  They’ve done some good stuff but overall, they’ve reminded me of Apollo Creeds ring entrance vs Drago in Rocky 4.  Too much.  

You can’t say next  year it is now because you don’t know what player might be lost for the season.  Put the duck tape around the leaky faucet and get it done.  The problem with this team they are bored playing the regular season and this happens to a team that makes it to a championship and loses the coaches have got to get it in the players heads you have to  win every game you have left this season and even the Super Bowl because the NFL will try everything in there power to stop Buffalo and not have MLB Atlanta Braves.

[BigBuff423]

16 hours ago, ticketssince61 said:

It is very easy to say "we should have addressed  <fill in the blank [RB, OL, ...] >

 

But you can't conjure these players out of thin air. With the salary cap down for the year and us at or near the cap, there was very little flexibility to bring in free agents.

 

Yes, we could have let Williams and Feliciano walk, but then we would have needed to sign their replacements, on an if/come basis

 

There are only 7 draft picks, and we were drafting toward the bottom of each round. As it is, we got two starters in Rousseau and Brown out of of our first 3 picks, and DE and OT are both key positions

 

On the other hand, my criticisms of Beane are that 

a) he has too high a propensity to trade up in the draft which costs us depth as we give up additional draft picks for those players

b) I think he has too much of a "build for the consistent future mentality" as opposed to "win now". i.e. should not be drafting projects even if in the long run they were the right pick

 

 

 

 

 

The issue with this argument is that Beane traded a 1st Round pick for Stefan Diggs, so he obviously didn't "over value" the future and understood  that Diggs on a well-balanced contract was giving Josh a true #1 WR to throw to but forfeited a 1st round pick to do it....basically, making your argument for you: the value of Diggs in the present outweighed the value of a future 1st round pick that "might" turn into a Diggs. 

[Solomon Grundy]

I have to get this off my chest. I feel like this was the year for the Bills to win the SB and management blew it. The league is in flux. There is NO clear cut, dominant team in the league. The Bills, coming off of last season, was a couple of pieces away from being that team and management IMO dropped the ball. We knew coming into this year that we couldn’t stop the run. Instead of trying to upgrade at that position, they simply relied on the return of Star. What made them think keeping Vernon Butler on this roster was going to help? We knew that the offensive line was an issue. Yes, Beane drafted some future talent but the help was needed now. Some of that talent was poached from the “protective” player squad. Same with the DBs. Could’ve tried to make a play for Kyle Fuller at the trade deadline, but was probably hoping Wildgoose would pan out only to get poached. Would it have been better to have given up some of the draft picks in order to get talent to help win now? This window was wide open and Beane should’ve climbed through instead of waiting for the league to put in a screen.

2 hours ago, Rico said:

Agreed. Dump Bobby Johnson instead and bring in someone who can coach players up.

Dump OG Bobby Johnson?😎

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Marvlevydraftdaygenius said:

You can’t say next  year it is now because you don’t know what player might be lost for the season.  Put the duck tape around the leaky faucet and get it done.  The problem with this team they are bored playing the regular season and this happens to a team that makes it to a championship and loses the coaches have got to get it in the players heads you have to  win every game you have left this season and even the Super Bowl because the NFL will try everything in there power to stop Buffalo and not have MLB Atlanta Braves.

There’s another thread discussing how to fix the current team.  
 

this thread is “I told you so”.  This offseason, I said that we needed to fix the OL, but we kept it as is….and in hindsight, we overpaid to do so.  
 

I always thought Feliciano was overpaid, but Williams had a chance to live up to his contract.  Turns out, they’re both overpaid and haven’t been able to do what was asked of them.  Be solid starters.  Williams might be a solid starter @ RG, but @ 11M per year, he’s overpaid to be an average RG.  

 

I had a problem with Basham and Doyle when we drafted them.  I thought we could’ve added players that could help us win a super bowl this season as well as being key components for the next 5+ years.  Well, let’s hope they pan out down the road, because It looks as if both are useless on this current team.  

[Marvlevydraftdaygenius]

Just now, NewEra said:

There’s another thread discussing how to fix the current team.  
 

this thread is “I told you so”.  This offseason, I said that we needed to fix the OL, but we kept it as is….and in hindsight, we overpaid to do so.  
 

I always thought Feliciano was overpaid, but Williams had a chance to live up to his contract.  Turns out, they’re both overpaid and haven’t been able to do what was asked of them.  Be solid starters.  Williams might be a solid starter @ RG, but @ 11M per year, he’s overpaid to be an average RG.  

 

I had a problem with Basham and Doyle when we drafted them.  I thought we could’ve added players that could help us win a super bowl this season as well as being key components for the next 5+ years.  Well, let’s hope they pan out down the road, because It looks as if both are useless on this current team.  

It might not be the players but the coach you think Buffalo would build a line for the cold and be the most physical offensive line in the league but one thing wrong with that philosophy is Super Bowl is not played in the cold.

[FilthyBeast]

19 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

All off season posters on here argued about the Bills needs

We needed depth at TE 

We needed to upgrade guard play

We needed a RB who can break first contact 

We needed a DT to stop power running attacks with Star being uncertain at the time 

This front office did none of these things and decided to just wind it back

The Jags game and the Colts game where just things that where percolating coming to a head 

These things are all fixable but man we just threw away a year in our Super Bowl window because our front office believed only one team existed in the AFC that being the Chiefs 

 

It didn't take a genius to understand that despite going 13-3 and reaching a conference championship game that there was still a lot of room for improvement with this team.

 

But we kept hearing empty words and platitudes like 'process', 'continuity' and 'culture' without any real understanding that this is a year to year league and the Bills weren't successful in 2020 because they had a group of star players leading the way.

 

It's just sad that fans that actually pay attention understood all these things but Beane is just another ego driven, arrogant guy who thinks because he's an actual NFL GM he was justified in making the ill advised decisions he did.

[NewEra]

34 minutes ago, Marvlevydraftdaygenius said:

It might not be the players but the coach you think Buffalo would build a line for the cold and be the most physical offensive line in the league but one thing wrong with that philosophy is Super Bowl is not played in the cold.

You have to get to the SB first.  Almost all of the afc playoff contenders play in open air stadiums.

 

Going forward, I just hope that we have a line that can open holes in the run game and pass protect efficiently.  This offseason, I had a plan on how to do just that in the draft.  Beane had his own plan and, as of now, his plan looks to have been a poor one.  
 

all that said. Unless we see marked improvements the rest of the way. Bobby Johnson’s head should roll this offseason.  Daboll might be with him unless he finds some answers 

2 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

It didn't take a genius to understand that despite going 13-3 and reaching a conference championship game that there was still a lot of room for improvement with this team.

 

But we kept hearing empty words and platitudes like 'process', 'continuity' and 'culture' without any real understanding that this is a year to year league and the Bills weren't successful in 2020 because they had a group of star players leading the way.

 

It's just sad that fans that actually pay attention understood all these things but Beane is just another ego driven, arrogant guy who thinks because he's an actual NFL GM he was justified in making the ill advised decisions he did.

Your thoughts aren’t so far off base but your need to go completely overboard and exaggerate just about every statement you make is nauseating.  Even those that may agree with the basis of your statement, like me, can’t help but roll my eyes

[Marvlevydraftdaygenius]

14 minutes ago, NewEra said:

You have to get to the SB first.  Almost all of the afc playoff contenders play in open air stadiums.

 

Going forward, I just hope that we have a line that can open holes in the run game and pass protect efficiently.  This offseason, I had a plan on how to do just that in the draft.  Beane had his own plan and, as of now, his plan looks to have been a poor one.  
 

all that said. Unless we see marked improvements the rest of the way. Bobby Johnson’s head should roll this offseason.  Daboll might be with him unless he finds some answers 

Your thoughts aren’t so far off base but your need to go completely overboard and exaggerate just about every statement you make is nauseating.  Even those that may agree with the basis of your statement, like me, can’t help but roll my eyes

Where am I wrong roll your eyes at what tell me everything I have said so far has been true tell me we’re I am wrong?

[NewEra]

35 minutes ago, Marvlevydraftdaygenius said:

Where am I wrong roll your eyes at what tell me everything I have said so far has been true tell me we’re I am wrong?

re read my post and then comment again

[DCofNC]

18 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

You haven't watched much this year huh?  Oliver is doing very well

Oliver has not come close to justifying a top 10 pick.  End of story, there is zero debate in that.  He’s a good player, but in a redraft, you probably don’t take him in the first round.