Playbooks staying and leaving with Daboll

[Figster]

29 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I think 95% of coordinators on both sides of the ball desperately want to be head coaches, even and especially after they have failed. They all believe they would be great head coaches, and we should want them to. .

True, 

 

On the other hand I don't think the opportunities go away If you turn down offers and go on to achieve more with an organiation like winning a championship.

   

  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, zow2 said:

 

Doesn't pretty much every offense regress over time?  That's why coaches are fired like it's a turnstile.  It ebbs and flows with talent level too.  I think the only offense that always stays consistent is Andy Reid.  No one can ever figure him out with certainty... and then he gets his hands on Mahomes...

 

Andy Reid is constantly evolving though.  He was a west coast guy - and has evolved as it made sense to do so.  He coaches to his talent.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

This is something I should know but I don't. And thought the concept of playbooks deserves its own thread. 

 

I assume that Dorsey has been compiling his own playbook for a few years, as he would be preparing to one day be an offensive coordinator. Most all of these guys do. And would be inclined to install it if Daboll leaves and he takes over.  

 

But would it be unusual for a team to just keep the Daboll offense and playbook intact as a Josh has now had three years with it and begun to master it, and then have Dorsey just take it over if and when he is named OC? While Daboll takes the same offense and playbook to his next job?

 

And then Dorsey could add his own unique plays and tweaks to it as they go. That is surely what I would lobby for. If Daboll leaves, which I think is only 50-50 chance ( he will be a hot name and interview but not sure he gets a job first time out), hire Dorsey and don't change the offense at all. 

 

Agree, teams may more look for a guy who also has worked wonders with multiple QB's.  On one hand you could argue Josh was never expected to do well so doing it with him is extra impressive, though think Allen's improvement is more on Palmer and Dorsey.  On the other hand could argue once Allen had the mechanics down, with his cannon arm and size, Daboll's job was easy.  Think he'll get interviews but not sure he's a sexy enough candidate to get hired this year.   Teams are going to want more than one year proven track record. 

[Coffeesforclosers]

Why would Daboll want to leave?  How freaking good are him and Josh?

 

I know coordinators are supposed to become head coaches, but why not stay here with a franchise QB and build a dynasty?

[Kelly the Dog]

In order for you to reach being a top coordinator you need to be a very competitive guy. If you’re a very competitive guy, you want to be the top guy and in charge. 

[Figster]

1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said:

In order for you to reach being a top coordinator you need to be a very competitive guy. If you’re a very competitive guy, you want to be the top guy and in charge. 

You also want to succeed because If you don't the next opportunity may never come. 

 

I think watching McD complete the process ( championship ) and being a big part of why gives Daboll the kind of platform he needs for sustainable success in the NFL IMO.

[Victory Formation]

2 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

Depending on how things go, the Lions and Falcons could be very attractive landing spots.

 

Ryan and Stafford are both very good, IMO.

 

Either could really flourish with a change of scenery. Put Matt Ryan with Shanahan in SF and it would be fun to watch. 

 

 

I think Daboll would covet the Chargers gig more than any other.. Herbert in my mind has top 5 QB in the NFL potential.. I think if Mike McCarthy is a one and done in Dallas, that may be a good spot for Daboll as well.. But the Lions, Bengals, Falcons, Jets and Texans? Yikes.. Better off waiting for a good organization to come calling..

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, Figster said:

Innovative coaches have evolving playbooks that they adjust to the players avaiable given the skill sets they offer IMO.

 

Losing Daboll would be such a huge loss for the Buffalo Bills...

 

On a side note Ryan Fitzpatrick has future OC material written all over him IMO. It will be interesting to see how well Fitzy coaches up Tua. ( scary ) The bearded one loves Buffalo.

 

I'm just saying...

 

I'm sure there are competent OC candidates that would be drooling to draw up plays for Josh Allen and Co.  

 

A loss, but not necessarily huge.

 

[Freddie's Dead]

This actually raises an interesting legal question.  Does the standard NFL coaching contract detail who owns the intellectual property of a coach?  Are the plays works-for-hire, so they are Bills property?  Does anyone at TBD know?

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Freddie's Dead said:

This actually raises an interesting legal question.  Does the standard NFL coaching contract detail who owns the intellectual property of a coach?  Are the plays works-for-hire, so they are Bills property?  Does anyone at TBD know?

 

At the end of a season, you could probably leave a copy of any team's playbook on an unguarded park bench and every opposing team's staff would walk up to it and sniff: "meh,  I've seen that already"....

Edited December 8, 2020 by Mr. WEO

[Kingston Bills Fan]

The first thing Josh always says when asked how he has improved so much is that he’s been in the same offence for three years now, and his relationship with coach Daboll and their understanding of each other now after 3 years together is huge.

 

So if Daboll does get a head coaching position somewhere. How much will it affect Allen and who is out there for a replacement? 
 

(No idea how to spell Daboll sorry if incorrect)

 

[Warcodered]

I'm not sure Josh's drop back is going to change all that much Qbs tend to stick to what's comfortable.

[NobesBLO13]

A HUGE step back. In fact, we should trade Allen as soon as the off-season starts while his stock is high. 🙄

[GunnerBill]

We have already done this in a thread yesterday. I doubt they change the scheme if Daboll goes. So not all. 

[H2o]

[GunnerBill]

Just now, NobesBLO13 said:

A HUGE step back. In fact, we should trade Allen as soon as the off-season starts while his stock is high. 🙄

 

Good point. Also cap space and comp picks.

[Simon]

6 minutes ago, Kingston Bills Fan said:

(No idea how to spell Daboll sorry if incorrect)

 

I wish there was some kind of a comprehensive resource available to the general public in which you could research this kind of basic information in the same amount of time it took to type that sentence.

[Kelly the Dog]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Good point. Also cap space and comp picks.

Maybe a sixth rounder. Because that is where you can find GOAT quarterbacks. 

[Bangarang]

On 12/8/2020 at 3:21 PM, Coffeesforclosers said:

Why would Daboll want to leave?  How freaking good are him and Josh?

 

I know coordinators are supposed to become head coaches, but why not stay here with a franchise QB and build a dynasty?

 

Because he could go to a place like Houston and be the HC of a team who also has a franchise QB?

[Bobby Hooks]

I don’t get how people think they can just poach a coordinator and think they’ll be able to get the same production. 

 

We have a good line, great receivers, and a qb that can do things not many guys out there can do. 

 

Daboll’s fine but I think it’s more of a case of the guys making him look good than him making our guys good. 

[Simon]

1 minute ago, Bobby Hooks said:

Daboll’s fine but I think it’s more of a case of the guys making him look good than him making our guys good. 

 

He's certainly got some silk to work with, but Daboll is directly responsible for a sizeable chunk of points on the board this year.

He's absolutely got a knack for drawing up particular route combinations that take advantage of opponents tendencies and and additional knack for calling them up at just the right down and distance where they're going to result in 6.

That natural instinct is not an easy thing to replace.

[Kelly the Dog]

Just now, Simon said:

 

He's certainly got some silk to work with, but Daboll is directly responsible for a sizeable chunk of points on the board this year.

He's absolutely got a knack for drawing up particular route combinations that take advantage of opponents tendencies and and additional knack for calling them up at just the right down and distance where they're going to result in 6.

That natural instinct is not an easy thing to replace.

Agreed. The playbook and offensive scheme is one thing. But the game planning, tweaking the design of the play for a specific opponent and practicing it during the week as part of that plan is another, and setting plays up and calling the plays at opportune times is still another. All different talents. Daboll is good at all and getting better. Better even than earlier in the year. His progression mirrors Josh’s as much as it follows Josh’s. 

[K-9]

1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Agreed. The playbook and offensive scheme is one thing. But the game planning, tweaking the design of the play for a specific opponent and practicing it during the week as part of that plan is another, and setting plays up and calling the plays at opportune times is still another. All different talents. Daboll is good at all and getting better. Better even than earlier in the year. His progression mirrors Josh’s as much as it follows Josh’s. 

“Mirrors” is the perfect word to describe it when I think of that comment Josh made a few weeks back about how Daboll will just toss out plays Allen doesn’t like. That symbiotic relationship evolves over time and it’s not surprising to see two intelligent people create this kind of product after nearly three years working together. 

[LABILLBACKER]

Hoping we can squeeze one more year out of Daboll before he becomes a HC. I like Dorsey and think he'd be pretty seamless for Josh. As far as plays and who gets to keep what I plead ignorance. 

[T master]

Dabs offense is cooking right now and he is getting a lot of looks . It's taken Dabol 3 yrs now and he finally has most all the toys he wants to make his Offense be what he has been building it to be . The last couple of seasons there has been talk of him being up for a HC ing position and has had a few interviews and didn't McD and Beane refuse 1 teams request to interview him last yr ? 

 

Given what the Bills are doing on offense this yr and that Dabol has brought him to this point with help of coarse do you think he will be gone next year ? I think Dabol is the master mind but i'm thinking that the QB coach has probably had a lot to do with Allen's turning the corner .

 

Seeing as Dorsey now knows the offense, it's players and the fact that Dabol will be at the top of a lot of teams looking for a HC's list i hope that Dorsey will get his opportunity with the Bills to stay on and get his chance to be a coordinator if in fact Dabol leaves .

 

That could be the best bet for stability for Josh and the rest of the offense rather than changing to another coordinator that could pull a Rex and try to change what isn't broke and working very well wouldn't be a good thing to do changing schemes can be very detrimental but if Dorsey can keep some of Dabol's scheme and give some of his small changes the stability would be great for the future not only for the Bills but Dorsey too .

 

If they decide Dorsey isn't the way to go if Dabol is pilfered by another team it could be a set back and now that we have our franchise QB i would hate to see Josh have a set back due to thinking that bringing in a different coordinator could be the way to go and it could piss off Dorsey to the point of him leaving which wouldn't be good .

 

But i don't see Beane or McD not having Dorsey as a top consideration to take Dabols place if that should happen but then if the Bills don't make it to the big game this yr Dabol with his Buffalo roots might want to stay to exercise any Super Bowl demons from his home town franchise and stay on trying to do just that .

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/bills-mailbag-whos-in-line-if-brian-daboll-departs-for-a-head-coaching-job/article_5ea3ab70-3c8b-11eb-8705-4f4bdbae05c7.html

[Solomon Grundy]

PLEASE STAY DABS!!

[Ramza86]

Losing Daboll would be huge

[Not at the table Karlos]

Daboll has been putting together a staff and ESPN had something out last week that said he’s up for a few jobs. He’s most likely gone after this year. With the progression Allen has had everyone is going to want him. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

23 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Daboll has been putting together a staff and ESPN had something out last week that said he’s up for a few jobs. He’s most likely gone after this year. With the progression Allen has had everyone is going to want him. 

I'm afraid you're right--actual footage of Dabs' agent right now...

 

[hondo in seattle]

I agree with the OP for the most part.  Dorsey seems to be the logical choice: a former QB himself, now the QB coach of an offense that is thriving on the performance of its QB.  

 

But I'm just a fan.  I don't know what kind of leadership skills Dorsey possesses.  I don't know how smart he is or how well he understands offensive schemes and how to best attack certain defenses.  I don't know the man's character:  Is he trustworthy?  Reliable?  Does he get along with the other position coaches?  Is he an alcoholic on the verge of a breakdown?

 

I don't have the answers so I'm not going to champion any particular candidate to replace Dabs if he indeed leaves for a HC opportunity.  I'm going to 'trust the process.'  I think McD has earned my trust by now.  

[NewEra]

Hopefully JA is just a sponge and puts that wonderlic score to work.  Hopefully he can become Jim Kelly in terms of calling the offense.  As long as he’s our QB, our HC will be considered for HC vacancies. Daboll has been a revelation and has been a huge part of JAs maturation.....but he’s going to leave eventually.  
 

In an ideal world, his love for Buffalo and JA + the pegulas paying him 5+ mill a year is enough to keep him here until we win a SB.  I just think don’t think he’ll be able to turn down being the HC for Deshaun Watson

 

dorsey is a no brainer replacement.  Hopefully he’s putting in work OT to be ready to take the reigns next season

Edited December 14, 2020 by NewEra

[billsfan89]

My main concern for the offense in 2021 and beyond is will Daboll leave and can they keep the O-line together. I think they can easily retain Mongo at a similar contract to what they paid Spain but maybe with more guaranteed. But D.Williams has been a complete revelation at RT and is going to command top money. An O-line franchise tag is 14 million, might it be worth it to keep Williams in the fold to work out a longer term deal? 

 

If they can keep Daboll for one more year and retain Mongo and D.Williams then I think they will be just fine. I think they can easily resign Ty for one more year, draft an O-line in round 5 or 6 to be a depth project, let Ike or Ford battle it out for the LG spot, have Bates back as the swiss army knife depth and find another vet guard like Winters to keep the O-line deep. 

 

I would be fine with mostly spending the cap dollars on offense resigning the O-line players and maybe adding a vet TE (I think you can resign Levi Wallace and Milano to reasonable deals) and then using the draft to fill any remaining defensive holes and depth needs. 

[TPS]

It's fine if he leaves. Super Bowl champs always seem to lose coordinators this way....

[mabden]

55 minutes ago, T master said:

Dorsey now knows the offense,

 

Yes, but can he call a game?  Meaning can he adapt and conquer like Daboll can?

 

Example: Greg Roman had an excellent offensive scheme (if you like power running) however, he could not get out of his own way during a game.  Anthony Lynn replaced him after two games and the offense performed much, much better.  Same offensive scheme, same players, different play calling.

Edited December 14, 2020 by mabden

[Rk_Bills86]

I'll be super honest - I think the only thing that really matters with whomever our next OC is - is that they design their plays with pre-snap motion. It is so important to reading a D. That being said - Allen is soaking up everything even when he is getting beat by something new and it's clear that if you show him something for a full game - the next time he'll beat it. Initially he couldn't be zone - then he couldn't beat man - then he couldn't beat cover 0 ..... yeah the basics don't work anymore against him.

 

Honestly McD's D might be the type of D that would give Allen the most fits - zone blitz from the CB/S with A/B gap LB blitz and fakes - all completely hidden until the snap regardless of movement. But.... you know what - he gets to see that in practice weekly - so maybe not. 

[Punching Bag]

Dorey's experience:

 

NFL QB 2003-2008

CFL QB 2010

Carolina Panthers Scout 2011–2012 

Carolina Panthers QB Coach 2013–2017
Buffalo Bills QB Coach 2019–present
 

Does that look someone who can take over OC role?  Bobby Johnson actually has more varied experience than Ken Dorsey.

 

The Bills need to find an OC candidate who do not do a Coach McD (Dump out baby with bath water) who will retain those coaches who do not leave with Brian Daboll and not need large changes in players to make his offense work.  Stability is the theme here.  I think the Pittsburgh model is best where coaches handle different parts on coaching before being promoted to coordinator.

[Returntoglory]

With the increased interest in Brian Daboll around the league and the near certainty that he will be interviewed for a HC position after the season, should OBD try to
sign him to a long-term deal before the season ends?

 

Now I know we can block any lateral move to another team, the hard part is a HC offer.

 

Is there a viable AND legal way around this?

My concern is the investment that he has out in with JA and the trust that has developed between the two.

I would hate to see a regression with a new Offensive Coordinator that could come in from outside the organization.

[DrDawkinstein]

There's nothing we can do to stop it, and McD wouldnt try to stop it even if he could. That's not how the coaching game works.

 

This is just something we'll have to get used to now that we are a winning team. It's a good thing. Trust the Process.

[Realist]

When you become a good team, especially over a period of years, you'll lose several coaches. It's up to the Head Coach to continue making good hires to keep the "Process" moving along.

[GoBills808]

Addition by subtraction