Question: Is Moss pushing Devin to start?

[Alphadawg7]

I’ve seen some rumblings on Twitter and some mentions about that on TSW over the weekend that basically suggested Moss has blown everyone away and Devin was having some fumbling issues in camp.  They also alluded that because of that, Moss was making a push to over take Devin on the depth chart.  
 

Anyone have any first hand insight on this?  I can’t find anything concrete or official really, and seems like this talk originated from a reporter that was at practices and other people just repeating it.  

 

But I haven’t heard anything or even really been able to find anything that suggested anything negative about Devin in camp.  Although, there are several reports saying Bills are going to split carries between the two and could rotate who starts or sees more carries based on the different strengths/weaknesses of the defense they are facing each week.  But that could just be because Moss has shined, doesn’t mean anything about Devin per se.

 

Again, to be clear, I am NOT suggesting any of this and I do really like both Devin and Moss.  I am just asking if anyone had any better info on this or heard anything similar or anything that refutes this.  
 

End of the day, I think we all have been pretty clear about the fact Moss was going to be involved every week.  No surprise there, now it’s just a question to how much as the season goes on each week.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Alphadawg7

[delirious]

I think the fumbling issue narrative is getting pushed a little too much about Devin Singletary. At least, I'm not worried about it yet. 

 

I don't think McDermott is the type to start a rookie running back so I highly doubt Moss is pushing for the starting role. Of course, Moss could be clearly better than Singletary in all phases of being a RB and he is pushing to start. We won't know that probably until the games start.

[716er]

Just now, delirious said:

I don't think McDermott is the type to start a rookie running back

 

Starting RB is subjective but Singletary started last year as a rookie versus this same team.

[thebandit27]

They’re both going to play. A lot.

 

I’m sure one guy will probably take a back seat if there are ball security issues, but other than that I think you’ll see them used in different situations.

[Rc2catch]

I don’t think the start tag matters. I fully expect to go with the hot hand approach. 
If one is ineffective repeatedly in game I swear I’ll smash my head into the wall if we continue to run the same formation and play like gore last year. 

[Kwai San]

If Moss is CLEARLY better then why would ANYONE be worried if he starts, plays more or whatever?  Whoever is doing better play em!

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, Kwai San said:

If Moss is CLEARLY better then why would ANYONE be worried if he starts, plays more or whatever?  Whoever is doing better play em!

I wasn’t asking because I am worried.  Was more just curious after seeing some of the rumblings.  

[Shaw66]

I don't anything either, but I doubt it.  

 

I doubt it premarily because rookie running backs rarely start on opening day.   As I understand it, it's very hard for rookie running backs to learn the playbook because of the pass route variations, the blitz pickups and the offensive line blocking schemes.  They get much less of all of that in college.  This year Moss got even less training and preparation in all of that than rookies get in ordinary years.  So if I had to guess, I'd say it will be Singletary.

 

I'm not too worried about Singletary and ball security.  He wasn't great in that category last season, but I expect he will improve.   If he does start putting the ball on the ground again, Moss may push him, but I don't think that will happen.  

[Just Joshin']

I think a lot of this is from the fantasy world and they are harping on a few comments from reporters during camp.  Fantasy tends to echo the comments until they become the story vs a notation.  They are also using the 3rd round pick as "see, they don't like Devin".

 

In real football, I expect a nearly even split between the two over the season unless one breaks out as clearly better.  It will be hot hand/team specific on who get the most carries in an individual game.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Just Joshin'

[msw2112]

I haven't heard or read a thing about Moss, although I have seen some articles mention Singletary having fumbling issues.  I don't recall ball security being a big issue for Devin last year and there haven't been any preseason games this year.  While this is strictly opinion, here's what I think will happen:  Devin, having had a very successful rookie year last season, will start.  As long as he plays well and keeps the ball off the carpet, he will continue to start.  Moss will work into the rotation and get a fair amount of playing time.  If his play is superior to Singletary's, he'll take over as the starter in a few weeks.  For now, Singletary will start based on his prior excellent play and his year of experience.  If they both play well and there's a question over who should start, that may be a good problem to have.

[thenorthremembers]

This is the type of thing that happens when there is a lull in information to write about.   A month ago Singletary was written about as a potential break out star who should be picked in the 1st round of fantasy drafts, and now he is being written about as a small, slow back with fumbling issues who is about to lose his job.

 

Both things were complete hyperbole, and both were written without any real football being played.  The reality of the situation is both Singletary and Moss will get a lot of carries here this year, and McDermott will go with the hot hand.   Its a running back by committee here, but that doesnt really help with clicks does it.   Same as last year there is no clear #1 back, whether Jerry Sullivan likes it or not.

 

 

[Patrick Duffy]

21 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

They’re both going to play. A lot.

 

I’m sure one guy will probably take a back seat if there are ball security issues, but other than that I think you’ll see them used in different situations.

This. I think the fumbling talk is a little over blown. They both will likely get plenty of touches.

[PaattMaann]

Singletary had 4 fumbles last year, and only lost 1. Comparison, that is the same number as Alvin Kamara. I dont know about fumbles per touch, I am not savy enough to find that info.

 

Doesnt seem like a problem, but I too have seen a lot of twitter talk about him dropping the ball this year. One clip even showed McDermott run up to him after a play and try and strip the ball from him. 

[K-9]

I hope so. Like the old, but suddenly seen everywhere, saying goes: iron sharpens iron.

[Don Otreply]

4 minutes ago, Kwai San said:

If Moss is CLEARLY better then why would ANYONE be worried if he starts, plays more or whatever?  Whoever is doing better play em!

If Singletary is Clearly better why would anyone be worried if he starts, plays more or whatever... 😁

 

The reality is that at the start of the season, Singletary will be the presumptive starter/ veteran RB, Moss will be the rookie that they work into the offense. As the season progresses reps will be shared more depending on down, distance, opponent and individual performance, That’s how it actually works, especially with the conservative coaching staff that the Bills have.  Variations on this general theme certainly are likely. If Singletary continues to perform as expected, and Moss develops as hoped, we will have a very good backfield.. 
 

Go Bills!!!

 

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Singletary was productive when the coaches stopped giving the ball to Gore, so I hope they don't forget him this year. 

[416BillsFan]

Moss should be pushing to take over for the starter. No idea if he's better than DS, but I'd be more worried if Moss was happy to play second fiddle.

[Rocky Landing]

Just a thought: Maybe we should wait for Moss to play a game before crowning him the next coming of Barry Sanders?

[Logic]

I believe Singletary will be the "starter" and get the lion's share of carries through about week 6. After that, it's anyone's guess.

For what it's worth, all reports thus far seem to indicate that Moss has been doing a better job in pass protection and with ball security. If he continues to be superior to Singletary in those two areas, look for him to take the "Starter" mantle away by midseason.

[mjt328]

Historically, this coaching staff prefers easing rookies into action.

I would be very surprised if Devin Singletary isn't the starter Week 1, and doesn't get the bulk of carries during the first month.  In fact, I wouldn't be shocked if Zack Moss starts the season as the #3 back and plays behind TJ Yeldon.

 

Ultimately, I believe the goal is for Singletary and Moss to become an equal 1-2 punch.  Usage will depend on opponent and gameplan.  Moss probably takes on more of the role Frank Gore had last season.  Short yardage and goal line carries.  Pounding the ball when trying to run out the clock.  

 

With that said, if Singletary starts showing a fumbling problem...  it won't be long before he starts losing significant carries.  I've been watching this sport for decades, and coaches do not put up with fumbling.

[947]

The fantasy football people out there are all expecting for Moss to eventually be the primary back, Moss is even going before Singletary in a lot of drafts. I suspect this is mostly groupthink speculation. I keep reading (on fantasy sites) that Moss has looked better in camp & Singletary has fumbled too much, but I've heard next to nothing positive or negative about Moss all camp & nothing of Devin fumbling.

 

If there was any truth to this, at least for week 1, I assume all of TBDers would know about it.

Edited September 8, 2020 by 947

[BuffAlone]

McD is not going to start a rookie RB opening day.Too many variables. Devin gets the start for sure

[IgotBILLStopay]

nice problem to have:)

 

the great thing about the Moss Motor pair is how dissimilar they are. Motor is a home run hitter while Moss can grind out the extra yard.

 

on 1st and 10, from what I have seen, Motor is the better option. 3rd and short, Moss might be the better option (so in answer to OP's question - I feel Singletary shd start)

 

not to say Motor cant do 3rd and shot or vice versa - just relative strengths

 

we might see more Moss rather than Motor vs 8 man boxes - except in those settings my eyes will be on Diggs / Brown rather than the RB.

 

all in all - it is a pick your poison choice for defenses.

 

Let us strap in and enjoy the ride

[LabattBlue]

19 minutes ago, 416BillsFan said:

Moss should be pushing to take over for the starter. No idea if he's better than DS, but I'd be more worried if Moss was happy to play second fiddle.

Actually I heard he loves playing second fiddle...that is what all rookies strive for. 

 

PS He is also adept at playing the jug, and one string bass 

Edited September 8, 2020 by LabattBlue

[John from Riverside]

Of course I want Moss to be great.......but he is going to HAVE to be to overtake Devin....because Devin was REALLY good last year in year one.

 

 

[buffaloboyinATL]

I know the Fantasy experts are starting to push the Moss winning the starting job narrative lately, but honestly, I think they start using each other as the source for the information, so all it takes is one to get the rumor started.  I'll believe it when I see it.  I personally think Singletary will start out getting the lions share of carries and then it just depends how he does from there.  My uneducated guess is 60% of the carries for Singletary, 25% for Moss and 15% for "other".

[Billzfan37]

33 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

I haven't heard or read a thing about Moss, although I have seen some articles mention Singletary having fumbling issues.  I don't recall ball security being a big issue for Devin last year and there haven't been any preseason games this year.  While this is strictly opinion, here's what I think will happen:  Devin, having had a very successful rookie year last season, will start.  As long as he plays well and keeps the ball off the carpet, he will continue to start.  Moss will work into the rotation and get a fair amount of playing time.  If his play is superior to Singletary's, he'll take over as the starter in a few weeks.  For now, Singletary will start based on his prior excellent play and his year of experience.  If they both play well and there's a question over who should start, that may be a good problem to have.

You don't recall ball security being an issue last year?  Singletary had the worse ball security stats of all eligible running backs in the NFL - he was the worst fumbler in the NFL in fumbles per attempt.

[Jauronimo]

11 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Just a thought: Maybe we should wait for Moss to play a game before crowning him the next coming of Barry Sanders?

Maybe we should wait for someone to actually crown Moss the next coming of Barry Sanders before condemning someone for crowning Moss the next Sanders?

[Mango]

I think the fumble issue with Singletary is something to pay attention to, but I don't think deserves a label yet. Just to note, that does tie him for 3rd in the league amongst RB's. Fumbles lost vs. won is largely luck. I wouldn't put a huge amount of stock in it.

I am more "concerned", maybe curious is a better word, as to how productive DS can be as a feature back. He was used pretty sparingly last year at 150 carries on the season. Which is good enough for 30th. Assuming he stays RB1, that number will most likely jump to 225 to 250. Can he average 4.3-ish yards per carry at that clip? I think somebody posted a breakdown of last season that DS rarely saw 8 in the box even compared to league averages. 

Not condemning him, but definitely something I have been curious about watching this season. 

 

[716er]

9 minutes ago, BuffAlone said:

McD is not going to start a rookie RB opening day.

 

Again, McD did last year.

[Billzfan37]

Just now, Mango said:

I think the fumble issue with Singletary is something to pay attention to, but I don't think deserves a label yet. Just to note, that does tie him for 3rd in the league amongst RB's. Fumbles lost vs. won is largely luck. I wouldn't put a huge amount of stock in it.

I am more "concerned", maybe curious is a better word, as to how productive DS can be as a feature back. He was used pretty sparingly last year at 150 carries on the season. Which is good enough for 30th. Assuming he stays RB1, that number will most likely jump to 225 to 250. Can he average 4.3-ish yards per carry at that clip? I think somebody posted a breakdown of last season that DS rarely saw 8 in the box even compared to league averages. 

Not condemning him, but definitely something I have been curious about watching this season. 

 

I think Singletary gets the same number of carries this year as last - with a slight uptick for the games that he missed.  I'd put hims at an uptick from 151 carries last year to 175 this year, and Moss having similar carries numbers - with Allen's carry numbers slightly down.  If they run 1000 plays this year and rush 43% of the time, that's 430 carries split between Singletary, Moss, Allen, and others - like end arounds to receivers, etc.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I’ve seen some rumblings on Twitter and some mentions about that on TSW over the weekend that basically suggested Moss has blown everyone away and Devin was having some fumbling issues in camp.  They also alluded that because of that, Moss was making a push to over take Devin on the depth chart.

 

LOL..   Never get your news based off of Twitter mentions (rumors) and TSW.  (or FB) 

 

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Again, to be clear, I am NOT suggesting any of this and I do really like both Devin and Moss.  I am just asking if anyone had any better info on this or heard anything similar or anything that refutes this.  
 

End of the day, I think we all have been pretty clear about the fact Moss was going to be involved every week.  No surprise there, now it’s just a question to how much as the season goes on each week.

 

Every player should push each other to play their best on every down.

If Moss pushes Singletary all the better IMO.

 

[Richard Noggin]

27 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Just a thought: Maybe we should wait for Moss to play a game before crowning him the next coming of Barry Sanders?

Just a thought: maybe we should read the OP and realize it wasn't crowning Moss at all.

 

(No offense.)

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

They’re both going to play. A lot.

 

I’m sure one guy will probably take a back seat if there are ball security issues, but other than that I think you’ll see them used in different situations.

This is correct. 

 

Looking around the league there very few bell cow rbs anymore.

 

As the season goes on I would look for a split around 50/50 but start the season at 70/30.

[BuffAlone]

24 minutes ago, 716er said:

 

Again, McD did last year.

I know. how'd that work out? Lesson learned. no need to try to create doubt from defenders this year. We dont need as many gadget plays. We are strong enough to just say "hello, hunted? Coming to get ya"

 

[machine gun kelly]

44 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Just a thought: Maybe we should wait for Moss to play a game before crowning him the next coming of Barry Sanders?

 Yo Rocky, crowning him, what are you Dennis Green, then again we’ll let you off the hook.  Sorry too easy.  All good, and you make a point and as much as I’m excited to see Moss on the field, I’m tabling that’s until Singletary needs relief.  Motor is still the man.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Billzfan37 said:

You don't recall ball security being an issue last year?  Singletary had the worse ball security stats of all eligible running backs in the NFL - he was the worst fumbler in the NFL in fumbles per attempt.

 

I'm not sure who were the "eligible running backs"?

I just pulled the data for all rushers with >100 rushing attempts from pro-football-reference into a spreadsheet and calculated fumbles per 100 rush attempts myself.

LeSean McCoy was worst with 3 fumbles per 100 rush attempts.

Singletary was 2nd with 2.6 per 100 rush attempts

Right behind him were Chris Carson of Seattle with 2.5 and Melvin Gordon of LAC with 2.5

Followed by Alvin Kamarra of the Saints with 2.3 and Austin Ekeler of LAC with 2.3

 

From this, it seems to me that while true if "eligible" exempts LeSean McCoy's 101 attempts, it's true that Singletary was worst, but his ball security was not in a terrible, horrible, no good very bad class of its own - very respectable RBs had similar numbers. 

 

I'm sure it's something they want him to improve but it's not like "OMG fix it or you're done"

 

PS just did the same calc using total yards from scrimmage.  Singletary comes in 10th.  Players around him include Carson, McCoy, Tarik Cohen, Gordon, then Motor, closely followed by Mecole Hardman and Carlos Hyde.  So again - it's something where he needs to improve, but it's not "OMG, INconceivable!"

 

[Milanos Milano]

So much talk about crowning. Just show me the baby. 

[billsfan89]

Just now, 947 said:

The fantasy football people out there are all expecting for Moss to eventually be the primary back, Moss is even going before Singletary in a lot of drafts. I suspect this is mostly groupthink speculation. If there was any truth to this, at least for week 1, I assume all of TBDers would know about it.

 

If you are taking Moss over Singletary you are doing so more so out of blind faith in a rookie in a time split than anything else which would be foolish. I think that if Singletary gives you similar production to 2019 he is giving you mid to lower level RB2 play. 

[Kmart128]

Only way he starts is if McDermott decides he wants a bigger more durable RB as his #1 RB. And then spell him with the smaller quicker Singletary. But i dont see it happening yet