Magox Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 He won't be a Bill next year. We already have Oliver and Harrison Phillips is coming back next year. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have him but not at the price he'll be looking for. He served his purpose and was a great teammate and with really good production this year, it will be missed but when you take into consideration that Oliver will be an even better version of himself and Harrison who was beginning to look really good right before his injury, the Bills will still be fielding a good DT rotation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsMafi$ Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 This is why I don’t resign him. Not a “process” guy and if he gets his deal I see a lack of production Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uticaclub Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Plain & simple, he's earned a big contract. If it's in Buffalo has yet to be decided, but the man deserves his payday. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Joe in Winslow said: Things getting zesty among the DT room, I see. Process="give me that money now". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPoy88 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, BillsMafi$ said: This is why I don’t resign him. Not a “process” guy and if he gets his deal I see a lack of production and what exactly is a “process” guy? Starting to think that word is used by a lot of you around here as code for something else entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwhit34 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 16 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said: What’s the infatuation with him? He played ok the short time he played this season. Wouldn’t be counting on him to being anything more than a rotational piece The infatuation is: 1. There is a bias towards players who are fiery/animated on the field and rev up/respond to the home crowd. I think this is way, way overvalued. 2. The league overvalues sacks. 3. People remember the flashy plays and don't break down all the plays. From those who seem to have done the work (I haven't but enough on this board seem to have done it), he's not consistent and weaker vs. run compared to his results vs. pass. Top 3 DT? Some have wondered if he's top 3 on the Bills. He might not even be the top Phillips on the Bills. 100% right he's a rotational player. With Star, Oliver and H. Phillips he should get less than 50% of the snaps and you aren't managing the cap effectively if you have $8-10-12 million tied up in a player like that. Think of it this way: if they can re-sign Liuget for $2 million or so, is Jordan Phillips as a rotational player going to be 4-6 times as effective as Liuget? He may be 20-25% better but at 40% of the snaps that is only 8-10% better. That money is better spent elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said: and what exactly is a “process” guy? Starting to think that word is used by a lot of you around here as code for something else entirely. like what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, uticaclub said: Plain & simple, he's earned a big contract. If it's in Buffalo has yet to be decided, but the man deserves his payday. so much hate for this dude and I don't get it. Not only was he productive but he was clearly an emotional leader of the d-line. And we are all set because we have Harrison Phillips?!?!?!? I don't mind him but he has proven nothing in this league. He had a so-so rookie year and then got hurt in the 3rd game this year. I would like to see him grown and get better and hopefully be the answer but he is far from certain. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, dpberr said: Does the hunger and drive go away once he receives the big contract? That's the big decision when a player has a career year in a contract year. ^^^ THIS^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 7 minutes ago, section122 said: so much hate for this dude and I don't get it. Not only was he productive but he was clearly an emotional leader of the d-line. And we are all set because we have Harrison Phillips?!?!?!? I don't mind him but he has proven nothing in this league. He had a so-so rookie year and then got hurt in the 3rd game this year. I would like to see him grown and get better and hopefully be the answer but he is far from certain. I haven't seen any hate directed toward him in this thread. I, for one LOVE J Phillips, and want him back. I wouldn't give him 17 mill a year, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Real McNasty said: He's gonna get paid and deserves so. I see 15 mill a year type contract. You know, I kind of doubt it. I think teams will be wary of paying a rotational DT the big bucks after only 1 season of production. I think it is more likely he signs a short prove it deal for decent money somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: I haven't seen any hate directed toward him in this thread. I, for one LOVE J Phillips, and want him back. I wouldn't give him 17 mill a year, though. Yeah, this is where I'm at. He's a good player for this team and an asset. He's certainly proven more than Harrison Phillips. I do think that most other teams will be aware of his limitations, but all it takes is two desperate teams who feel they need to significantly improve their interior pass rush. Edited January 13, 2020 by dave mcbride 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, JerseyBills said: 99 is the reason all along I feel we might not even make Phillips an offer. They're paying ? big $, spent a 3rd and 1st in last 3 years. Can't invest more imo No one asked me, but I think the H Phillips love is a bit over the top on this board. He played like 4 games this season. J Phillips is a better player. However, I agree Jordan Phillips will probably be overpaid somewhere. He’s not in the same category as Fletcher Cox, Aaron Donald etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djp14150 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 18 minutes ago, jwhit34 said: The infatuation is: 1. There is a bias towards players who are fiery/animated on the field and rev up/respond to the home crowd. I think this is way, way overvalued. 2. The league overvalues sacks. 3. People remember the flashy plays and don't break down all the plays. From those who seem to have done the work (I haven't but enough on this board seem to have done it), he's not consistent and weaker vs. run compared to his results vs. pass. Top 3 DT? Some have wondered if he's top 3 on the Bills. He might not even be the top Phillips on the Bills. 100% right he's a rotational player. With Star, Oliver and H. Phillips he should get less than 50% of the snaps and you aren't managing the cap effectively if you have $8-10-12 million tied up in a player like that. Think of it this way: if they can re-sign Liuget for $2 million or so, is Jordan Phillips as a rotational player going to be 4-6 times as effective as Liuget? He may be 20-25% better but at 40% of the snaps that is only 8-10% better. That money is better spent elsewhere. The only way he gets more thaan 50% of snaps is if buffalo gets a 3 score lead in the second half so the other team is all passing. if he is top 3...why isn’t he with the team that drafted him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, djp14150 said: if he is top 3...why isn’t he with the team that drafted him. Im not saying he is Top 3 at all, but you are aware his previous coach was Gase right? He wouldn’t know what a good player looked like.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Tognarelli Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Oh dear. Byebye, bud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 I've liked him since he's been here but he isn't a force down after down He has great energy and seems like he likes it here but he does not play his technique great.. is out of position decent amount and alot of his sacks walked right into him Still a great year but not at that price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc2catch Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) 35 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said: and what exactly is a “process” guy? Starting to think that word is used by a lot of you around here as code for something else entirely. It’s a team first attitude. Putting the team first before individual achievements. Not going on tweeter telling people you’re so great and deserve top 3 money. Phillips worked hard and deserves his payday. I don’t think anyone disputes that. He’s just not going to get top 3 DT money in buffalo. Edited January 13, 2020 by Rc2catch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 im torn because he was productive and keeping our guys makes the team better, but big dollars on a guy who is just not good vs the run ain't it. i kinda think the nfl is less obsessed with the super duper DT like they were 10 or so years ago. Suh, marcel, guys like that had teams drooling and guys who were not even as good as them were taken with top 10 or 20 picks regularly, but lately it seems like there is less emphasis on paying a big chubby dude on D top dollars because there is the question of how long that pace can be kept up. darnold, cox, those guys are the exception, but they are every down monsters who have never shown any true weakness in their game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBob Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) 56 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said: lol yeah because he’s a sure thing. Amazing how certain people will go to bat for certain players that haven’t proven squat. Certainly not anything close to what Phillips proved this season. Wonder why that is? ??? Harry was hurt and out for the season. Kind of hard to prove anything from the sideline in street clothes. I like Jordan Phillips a lot. But only at the right price. And no, you’re little subtextual message was not lost on me. I’m just dismissing it. Edited January 13, 2020 by BuffaloBob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Tognarelli Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, MAJBobby said: 89M cap room, there is enough money to do whatever they want. I am not worried about that they could give Phillips 10M AVV and still go sign that top DE at 18M AVV I think you mean AAV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 It's most likely his only chance for big money. Of course he's going to say this stuff. All of you here would do the same thing for $$ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 2 hours ago, DCOrange said: I like him, but if he's going into negotiations thinking top 3 money is actually his starting position, I can't imagine a deal getting done. He's going to have to give in wayyyyy more than that. I wouldn't want to pay him half that personally. I think that’s exactly what Beane was alluding to when he said “Phillips has earned the right to test the market in FA”. My guess is that he knows how Phillips thinks of himself (top 3 DT) and that while the Bills value him, we don’t value him to that degree given McD’s desire for a rotational system. He’s saying we understand how you see yourself, if you get someone else to see you that way, Godspeed and Good Luck. I feel JP may contribute more to the team than they see him as contributing, but probably not to that extent. 2 hours ago, BuffaloBill963 said: Anything to back up this assertion about being a liability against the run? I was wondering that myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 14 minutes ago, colin said: im torn because he was productive and keeping our guys makes the team better, but big dollars on a guy who is just not good vs the run ain't it. I’m curious about where this ‘not good against the run’ theme comes from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, nucci said: It's most likely his only chance for big money. Of course he's going to say this stuff. All of you here would do the same thing for $$ Right. Players always hype their value when they are entering FA. It's all part of the negotiation. Everybody knows this including the FOs league wide. There is no harm in it and no negative inferences need be taken. Having said that not at 17 per. JP and his agent prolly both know and understand that. Still, if someone is ready to pony up, more power to the player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 He has been a very good pick up by the Bills. Beane and his staff are wizards. However, he is likely to get greatly overpaid by someone and that should not be the Bills. Oliver and Harry are the future, at DT and they can fill the rotation from there. Personally, I would rather see them retain Shaq and cut Murphy loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I’m curious about where this ‘not good against the run’ theme comes from The game tape Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Perk71 said: I'm wondering if they have already received initial offers from the team and they might feel slighted. They being Phillips and Lawson. Just a thought from me with nothing to back it up. Go Bills!! Seems like a reasonable hypothesis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfanAZ Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 The Bills cannot sink that type of money into both Phillips and Star. Phillips is not a top 3 DT. He will get a nice contract from someone but I highly doubt he repeats his stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Not gonna fault him if he really does end up making that bread. Who doesn't want to get massively overpaid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngbills Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Phillips- 543 snaps (52%); 9.5 sacks; 16 QB hits; 20 QB Pressures; 31 tackles; 13 tackles for loss Bills Comparison Oliver- 556 snaps (54%); 5 sacks; 8 QB hits; 12 QB pressures; 43 tackles; 5 tackles for loss Star- 482 snaps (46%); 2 sacks; 3 QB hits; 4 QB pressures; 19 tackles; 3 tackles for loss Non-Bills Comparison A Donald- 926 snaps (84%); 12.5 sacks; 24 QB hits; 32 QB hurries; 48 tackles; 20 tackles for loss C Jones- 646 snaps (58%); 9 sacks; 20 QB hits; 27 QB hurries; 36 tackles; 8 tackles for loss Phillips is right up there. If he goes who replaces him pressuring from the front 4? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 7 minutes ago, ngbills said: Phillips- 543 snaps (52%); 9.5 sacks; 16 QB hits; 20 QB Pressures; 31 tackles; 13 tackles for loss Bills Comparison Oliver- 556 snaps (54%); 5 sacks; 8 QB hits; 12 QB pressures; 43 tackles; 5 tackles for loss Star- 482 snaps (46%); 2 sacks; 3 QB hits; 4 QB pressures; 19 tackles; 3 tackles for loss Non-Bills Comparison A Donald- 926 snaps (84%); 12.5 sacks; 24 QB hits; 32 QB hurries; 48 tackles; 20 tackles for loss C Jones- 646 snaps (58%); 9 sacks; 20 QB hits; 27 QB hurries; 36 tackles; 8 tackles for loss Phillips is right up there. If he goes who replaces him pressuring from the front 4? Oliver is already ahead of Phillips in terms of pass rush win rate: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27584726/nfl-pass-blocking-pass-rushing-rankings-2019-pbwr-prwr-leaderboard Top 10 DT Pass Rush Win Rate 1. Aaron Donald, Rams, 25% 2. Grady Jarrett, Falcons, 22% 3. Chris Jones, Chiefs, 19% 4. Maliek Collins, Cowboys, 16% 5. Quinton Jefferson, Seahawks, 16% 6. Calais Campbell, Jaguars, 15% 7. Ed Oliver, Bills, 15% 8. Denico Autry, Colts, 14% 9. Matt Ioannidis, Redskins, 13% 10. Vita Vea, Buccaneers, 13% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogham26 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 no team in the league will pay him top 3 DT money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 minute ago, DCOrange said: Oliver is already ahead of Phillips in terms of pass rush win rate: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27584726/nfl-pass-blocking-pass-rushing-rankings-2019-pbwr-prwr-leaderboard Top 10 DT Pass Rush Win Rate 1. Aaron Donald, Rams, 25% 2. Grady Jarrett, Falcons, 22% 3. Chris Jones, Chiefs, 19% 4. Maliek Collins, Cowboys, 16% 5. Quinton Jefferson, Seahawks, 16% 6. Calais Campbell, Jaguars, 15% 7. Ed Oliver, Bills, 15% 8. Denico Autry, Colts, 14% 9. Matt Ioannidis, Redskins, 13% 10. Vita Vea, Buccaneers, 13% MMMM love me some of that pass rush win rate action Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billzgobowlin Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 I'm really excited about Harrison Phillips coming back. When he got injured our run defense sucked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngbills Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 9 minutes ago, DCOrange said: Oliver is already ahead of Phillips in terms of pass rush win rate: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27584726/nfl-pass-blocking-pass-rushing-rankings-2019-pbwr-prwr-leaderboard Top 10 DT Pass Rush Win Rate 1. Aaron Donald, Rams, 25% 2. Grady Jarrett, Falcons, 22% 3. Chris Jones, Chiefs, 19% 4. Maliek Collins, Cowboys, 16% 5. Quinton Jefferson, Seahawks, 16% 6. Calais Campbell, Jaguars, 15% 7. Ed Oliver, Bills, 15% 8. Denico Autry, Colts, 14% 9. Matt Ioannidis, Redskins, 13% 10. Vita Vea, Buccaneers, 13% Interesting...wonder why his QB hits, hurries, etc are so low then. Is he winning off the ball but getting picked up? Slow to find and get to the QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Would love to have him back but the lack of DT in this league make him a hot commodity I dont want to play against him hope he signs with NFC North Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 minute ago, ngbills said: Interesting...wonder why his QB hits, hurries, etc are so low then. Is he winning off the ball but getting picked up? Slow to find and get to the QB. Would have to look at the film for that, but pass rush win rate is based on beating your man before 2.5 seconds, so based on that, it would seem Phillips generally picked up his sacks on slower developing plays where coverage held up or pressure from other players forced the QB to step into Phillips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share Posted January 13, 2020 59 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I’m curious about where this ‘not good against the run’ theme comes from I'm too lazy and not vested in this argument to look it up, but IIRC Cover1 and others were showing this on twitter over the past few weeks and throughout the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC in St. Louis Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 He benefitted from our defensive schemes that allowed him to get to the QB. He had a really good year. Let him test the market. There may just be somebody out there who wants to pay him 17 million a year. I doubt it. With Harrison and Ed coming back, I'm not sure we need him. For that matter, I say we cut loose Star. Not worth $10 million any more. We have Vincent Taylor ready to play too. But then again, we had a top 2 defense. Glad it's not my call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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