PFF's anti-Josh Allen agenda continues, calls Duck Hodges "the better QB"

[Bangarang]

PFF can be useful for certain things but this is a historically dumb take.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

be nice if JA were to see this. not that he needs any more motivation but something like this could motivate him even more.

 

duck

 

duck

 

goose

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, Koko78 said:

 

Seems like the PFF author is just being edgy an ass to drive traffic to his article.

 

This is true across the board for the entire analytics community. I don't know what their whole attitude is about. I follow a lot of these guys on Twitter. They are more interested in dunking on people they disagree with than providing analysis. They are quick to call out people who didn't like Lamar Jackson pre-draft, but they never admit how wrong they were about Josh Rosen. And honestly Josh Allen is already much better than most of them thought he would be. They seem very stuck on their preconceived notions based on what the analytics told them. To the point where until Allen is a consistent top 10 QB they won't admit they were wrong.

Edited December 13, 2019 by HappyDays

[BarleyNY]

17 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

 Apologies if already posted.

Gotta be honest, I agree with this post from Eric Eager.  With better play from Josh we’re Super Bowl contenders.  Here’s hoping he steps up.  

Edited December 13, 2019 by BarleyNY

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

4 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I’m the same rational awesome poster as always. ? when this board tries to compare Allen with Mahomes, it is looney tunes.  But To say ? is better?  Well that is outright insane.  
 

and Allen better prove me right!

 

...."paging Mr. Edmunds......pick up the lobby phone for your assignment"...........

 

[Ramza86]

Just now, BarleyNY said:

Gotta be honest, I agree with this post from Eric Eager.  With better play from Josh we’re Super Bow contenders. 

 

Dang...I know what you mean. 

 

I think how the offense is run put JA as the lead dog. 

I think we could go into a run heavy, limit JAs attempts and win the old fashioned way. 

 

I really do believe they are throwing as much as they do because they need him to be able to do everything on the field to become a Franchise type player.

 

I dont think its just about winning with this year its about making JA a complete QB......and winning.

 

[Lurker]

Big whoop.

 

PFF is the QBR of analytics sites...

 

(and I still hate Collinsworth)

[BarleyNY]

6 minutes ago, Ramza86 said:

 

Dang...I know what you mean. 

 

I think how the offense is run put JA as the lead dog. 

I think we could go into a run heavy, limit JAs attempts and win the old fashioned way. 

 

I really do believe they are throwing as much as they do because they need him to be able to do everything on the field to become a Franchise type player.

 

I dont think its just about winning with this year its about making JA a complete QB......and winning.

 

Yeah.  I also think some of the better teams are doing their best to force the game into Josh’s hands.  If he can make those teams pay, then the sky’s the limit for the Bills - especially considering our cap situation.  It’d be a very sustainable team. 

[soflabillsfan1]

PFF is garbage for QB's.  Absolute trash.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

For some reason, a part of DCOrange's post didn't show up when I quoted him. It was the following commentary from the PFF article. I honestly couldn't believe PFF was of this opinion. 

 

Counterpoint (EE): This is for all you doubters out there (yeah, I’m talking to you, PFF_Steve).  All of you who think that throwing the ball accurately is more important in today’s NFL than having the arm strength to send the ball clear out of bounds in those stiff Buffalo winds. You idiots who don’t appreciate Mose Schrute’s brother frolicking through defenses on long-yardage plays en route to leading the league’s 26th-best offense. Those of you who mock and ridicule the decision to draft an ineffective college passer from the Mountain West more than 20 spots ahead of a Heisman Trophy winner than may soon be the NFL’s MVP.  THIS ONE’S FOR YOU.

Sure, the Steelers have what may very well be the league’s best defense.  Yeah, they may be getting back one of the league’s most dynamic young receivers to join a stable full of emerging talent that also includes Diontae Johnson and James Washington.  Yes, we know Heinz Field is one of the league’s premier home-field advantages. None of that is going to matter Sunday night when our boss slides into view, because Buffalo Bills quarterback Josh Allen is on a roll.  Only 31 starting quarterbacks have a better negatively graded throw rate than Allen. This is the game they drafted him for.

 

That trash-talk is so trashy it's not even worth responding to.

[Wayne Arnold]

41 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Gotta be honest, I agree with this post from Eric Eager.  With better play from Josh we’re Super Bowl contenders.  Here’s hoping he steps up.  

 

With better play from Josh and the OLine and the receivers/tight ends and running backs and better offensive coordinating from Daboll we’ll be Super Bowl contenders.

[Beast]

17 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

To be fair when Josh Allen is bad he’s a bottom 3 QB (30-32). Allen is yet to register a 300 yard game & has generally been a midrange QB this year. Duck Hodges is the #28 QB on a good or bad day. 

To be fair when MOST QB’s are bad they look like they are bottom feeder QB’s.

 

Are you saying Allen couldn’t have put up a 300 yard game or two if the game plan called was pass heavy?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said:

To be fair when MOST QB’s are bad they look like they are bottom feeder QB’s.

 

Are you saying Allen couldn’t have put up a 300 yard game or two if the game plan called was pass heavy?

 

 

 

...BIGGER question BOE is whether Dabumble would approve.....I'll take the hit as far as being a dumbazz non-conformist, but this guy gives me zero confidence as an OC that designs game plans playing to skill set strengths that BEST match up with the weekly opposition......

[C.Biscuit97]

21 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said:

To be fair when MOST QB’s are bad they look like they are bottom feeder QB’s.

 

Are you saying Allen couldn’t have put up a 300 yard game or two if the game plan called was pass heavy?

He put up 2 300 yards games in MWC. Definitely an overrated stat but dude rarely puts up monster passing games. 

[Solomon Grundy]

Just hope we don't get this duck Sunday night

 

 

 

[noacls]

Bills are 2nd in the league in dropped passes. Does PFF take that into account?

Knox 6 dropped 

Beasley 4

Motor 4

Smoke 3

How much better would his numbers look if that's cut down?

[DCOrange]

4 minutes ago, noacls said:

Bills are 2nd in the league in dropped passes. Does PFF take that into account?

Knox 6 dropped 

Beasley 4

Motor 4

Smoke 3

How much better would his numbers look if that's cut down?

Yes, they were pretty much the first group to actually take that into account. That's what their adjusted completion % numbers are for.

Edited December 13, 2019 by DCOrange

[dubs]

Nerds trying to like sports and be part of the cool crowd never goes well. That’s PFF in a nutshell. 
 

stick to chess nerds

[Augie]

I wonder if the Steelers have read this. Think the Steelers would turn down a straight up trade? 

 

That’s all you need to know. 

 

 

. 

Edited December 14, 2019 by Augie

[Nelius]

15 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Hodges TD % this season :  5.0% of his throws are TDs

 

JA TD % this season: 4.2% of his throws are TDs

 

And again, given a guess at the better future, I and nearly everyone else would take Josh. But the question PFF raises is who is playing better right now. I think it's very fair to argue that that's Hodges. He's really doing a good job.

 

You're conveniently overlooking Allen's rushing touchdowns. Why does everybody seemingly do this when discussing Allen? Rushing TD's don't count less when they come from a QB.

 

It's not fair to argue that Hodges is better, sorry. It's short sighted and wrong.

[Bferra13]

This might be common news, but I just read Chris Collinsworth is the majority stakeholder of Pro Football Focus. He hates everything Buffalo already, just wait until he rips Josh after the first incompletion on national tv. Might wanna turn the tv down for the game. 

 

From Wiki:

 In 2014, sports commentator and former NFL player Cris Collinsworth bought a majority interest in the service, which moved its operations to Cincinnati, near where Collinsworth lives in Ft. Thomas, Kentucky.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Bferra13

[Mat68]

46 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

Yes, they were pretty much the first group to actually take that into account. That's what their adjusted completion % numbers are for.

They pick out all the numbers Allen does poorly.  He is top 5 in adjusted completion % or was the last time I checked.  Baltimore is killing everyone.  The Bill's were a play or 2 away from taking that game.  Everyone is so reactionary.  Allen's first half was tough.  He is a rythem passer.  The opening drives they need to scheme him gimme throws.  Not 25 plus yard passes into the wind.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Mat68

[Albany,n.y.]

18 hours ago, BruceVilanch said:

Honest question, why is he called "Duck?"

Because that's what his O-line will be yelling at him all night this Sunday. 

[Wayne Arnold]

PFF “scouting” the Ravens v Bills box score and finding out Allen passed for a season low in a loss.

[Prickly Pete]

On 12/12/2019 at 6:08 PM, Wayne Arnold said:

 

 Apologies if already posted.

 

 

It's called "trolling". It's all about getting hits, and there is a market for "Anti-Josh Allen" nonsense...especially with so many die-hard, long suffering, easy to offend Bills fans. 

Articles about Allen "coming along nicely", "progressing", "Not too bad" etc. aren't going to move the meter much. It's all Love or Hate in Hitsville.

 

Stop hitting it.

Edited December 14, 2019 by 32ABBA

[The Wiz]

2 hours ago, Nelius said:

 

You're conveniently overlooking Allen's rushing touchdowns. Why does everybody seemingly do this when discussing Allen? Rushing TD's don't count less when they come from a QB.

 

It's not fair to argue that Hodges is better, sorry. It's short sighted and wrong.

Well Allen rushing instead of throwing obviously shows his obvious inability to throw to the obviously open target, obviously. 

 

I think I used it enough there to convey the sarcasm. 

[billvernsays]

6 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Eh. Disagree. They couldn't keep up with Philly earlier in the year. Josh was abysmal down the stretch of that game.

There were 40 mile per hour winds that game. The Eagles were beating us by RUNNING the ball, not passing. Their Offensive Coordinator was using his head. 
 

That’s not the best game to use in an example of Josh’s abilities IMO. 

[Orlando Tim]

On 12/12/2019 at 9:08 PM, Wayne Arnold said:

 

 Apologies if already posted.

I am annoyed you posted this since I went and looked at it. It is a bad analysis and is someone finding info to make the point they want.

[H2o]

On 12/12/2019 at 9:08 PM, Wayne Arnold said:

 

 Apologies if already posted.

Did PFF ever have credibility?  They're a bunch of dorks. Any group of absolute nobodies who have the audacity to claim they "could tell which NFL teams were going by their draft guide" (gtfoh with that complete horse sh*t) are laughingstocks, not people you put stock in.  

[Dr. K]

It does not matter one iota what these guys say, it only matters if the Bills win.

 

If Allen plays well who cares what some stat freaks think? 

[Dr.Sack]

11 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said:

To be fair when MOST QB’s are bad they look like they are bottom feeder QB’s.

 

Are you saying Allen couldn’t have put up a 300 yard game or two if the game plan called was pass heavy?

Not saying that at all

[buffalonian]

On 12/12/2019 at 9:08 PM, Wayne Arnold said:

 

 Apologies if already posted.

Interesting logic here, WR John Brown is one of the “best free agent signings” this year and is having the statistically top season of his career but somehow the guy throwing him the ball is terrible. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, buffalonian said:

Interesting logic here, WR John Brown is one of the “best free agent signings” this year and is having the statistically top season of his career but somehow the guy throwing him the ball is terrible. 

 

It's PFF, Jake. It's PFF.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

It’s like all the dorks that crunch numbers became the Arbitors of Succession / Lord High Executioners of NFL performance.  I think offended players (or more accurately, offended fan bases) should be able to prove their skills in person.  Imagine Josh Allen rifling balls to PFF staffers.  ?

[BeastMaster]

Oh, my!

 

If that's not an indictment on that site, I don't know what is.

[Thurman#1]

14 hours ago, Nelius said:

 

You're conveniently overlooking Allen's rushing touchdowns. Why does everybody seemingly do this when discussing Allen? Rushing TD's don't count less when they come from a QB.

 

It's not fair to argue that Hodges is better, sorry. It's short sighted and wrong.

 

 

Could you and anyone else who's going to tell me I'm wrong at least read what I say? Yeah, it's short-sighted. That's the freaking point, as I've said like five times now!!! Again, I take Josh in the long-term for the future. PFF only made the argument that Duck is playing better now. So yeah, they're only talking about the short-term. Me too. It is indeed short-sighted, and taking that into account, it's the opposite of stupid. It's extremely reasonable argument.

 

And I am overlooking the running yards, largely. They're just fine, but QBs are generally ranked on passing stats and for good reason. I give Josh a bump up for his running, it really does help. But all things considered I'd rather have a QB with a better pass game who can't run much than a QB who is a terrific runner but not as good a passer. Josh's future, I believe, and Duck's too for that matter, will come down to whether he can master the passing game in the NFL.

 

And Duck isn't a bad runner either, though he's not as good as Josh.

 

 

3 hours ago, buffalonian said:

Interesting logic here, WR John Brown is one of the “best free agent signings” this year and is having the statistically top season of his career but somehow the guy throwing him the ball is terrible. 

 

 

Typical straw man argument. Could you quickly point out where they say Allen is "terrible"?

 

What they said is that Duck is playing better than Josh. Which is a reasonable argument. Reasonable to disagree, too, of course, but I think they're probably right. And not because Josh is playing badly, but because Duck is playing really well. You can say - as many have - that he's not being asked to do much, and that's both true and fair. But should Allen be blamed because he doesn't run up as much production in terms of yards as Rodgers or Brees do? No, of course not. Allen isn't being asked to do what their teams ask Brees and Rodgers to do. You can only evaluate Allen on how well he performs the things he's asked to do.

 

Same with Duck. Yeah, they're not asking him to do much. But what they're asking him to do, he's doing very well indeed.

 

And just for the record yet again, yes, I think Hodges'll be diagnosed sooner or later. Someone will figure out how to take away his strengths, and when they do that, odds are he won't be able to adapt. Maybe he will, but odds are against it. But nobody's done it so far. He's playing really well.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

21 hours ago, Do The Reich Thing said:

PFF are just dumbass keyboard warriors who constantly try to save face on their opinions. Josh Allen could win MVP and they would still say he sucks. 

 

 

It really is hilarious how people rush onward in waves to blame the messenger on anything that can remotely be conceived of as reflecting badly on the Bills. A good 30% of the posts in this thread say nothing about the argument. They instead attack the messenger, an argument that carries absolutely zero reflection on the argument.

 

When PFF says something that can be interpreted as casting the Bills in a good light, suddenly there are no PFF comments in that thread and everyone only talks about what they said. It's just so obvious and sad.

 

But as for them being dumb, again, it's nonsense on the face of it. A majority of the NFL teams buy PFF's stuff. They would not do so if they were not very good at what they do.

 

Not that that proves that they're correct in every value judgment that they make. They're not, anymore than anyone is. But they're a very capable organization.

[buffalonian]

44 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Could you and anyone else who's going to tell me I'm wrong at least read what I say? Yeah, it's short-sighted. That's the freaking point, as I've said like five times now!!! Again, I take Josh in the long-term for the future. PFF only made the argument that Duck is playing better now. So yeah, they're only talking about the short-term. Me too. It is indeed short-sighted, and taking that into account, it's the opposite of stupid. It's extremely reasonable argument.

 

And I am overlooking the running yards, largely. They're just fine, but QBs are generally ranked on passing stats and for good reason. I give Josh a bump up for his running, it really does help. But all things considered I'd rather have a QB with a better pass game who can't run much than a QB who is a terrific runner but not as good a passer. Josh's future, I believe, and Duck's too for that matter, will come down to whether he can master the passing game in the NFL.

 

And Duck isn't a bad runner either, though he's not as good as Josh.

 

 

 

 

Typical straw man argument. Could you quickly point out where they say Allen is "terrible"?

 

What they said is that Duck is playing better than Josh. Which is a reasonable argument. Reasonable to disagree, too, of course, but I think they're probably right. And not because Josh is playing badly, but because Duck is playing really well. You can say - as many have - that he's not being asked to do much, and that's both true and fair. But should Allen be blamed because he doesn't run up as much production in terms of yards as Rodgers or Brees do? No, of course not. Allen isn't being asked to do what their teams ask Brees and Rodgers to do. You can only evaluate Allen on how well he performs the things he's asked to do.

 

Same with Duck. Yeah, they're not asking him to do much. But what they're asking him to do, he's doing very well indeed.

 

And just for the record yet again, yes, I think Hodges'll be diagnosed sooner or later. Someone will figure out how to take away his strengths, and when they do that, odds are he won't be able to adapt. Maybe he will, but odds are against it. But nobody's done it so far. He's playing really well.

The point is simply that if Brown is having his best season, it is ridiculous to suggest  that it is “despite the QB situation.”  Obviously, a wide receiver can only be successful if the quarterback passing to him is also successful in doing so.   That PFF quote from Eager that I referenced doesn’t even mention Hodges, but focuses on Allen and Brown, so your “straw man argument” suggestion is wrong. 

[Thurman#1]

12 minutes ago, buffalonian said:

The point is simply that if Brown is having his best season, it is ridiculous to suggest  that it is “despite the QB situation.”  Obviously, a wide receiver can only be successful if the quarterback passing to him is also successful in doing so.   That PFF quote from Eager that I referenced doesn’t even mention Hodges, but focuses on Allen and Brown, so your “straw man argument” suggestion is wrong. 

 

 

That may be your point, but my "straw man argument" is absolutely correct. Let's review. This is what you said:

 

4 hours ago, buffalonian said:

Interesting logic here, WR John Brown is one of the “best free agent signings” this year and is having the statistically top season of his career but somehow the guy throwing him the ball is terrible. 

 

That implies that they said that "the guy throwing him the ball is terrible."

 

They never said that or anything like it, so yes, you absolutely threw a straw man argument out there.

[BeastMaster]

57 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

It really is hilarious how people rush onward in waves to blame the messenger on anything that can remotely be conceived of as reflecting badly on the Bills. A good 30% of the posts in this thread say nothing about the argument. They instead attack the messenger, an argument that carries absolutely zero reflection on the argument.

 

When PFF says something that can be interpreted as casting the Bills in a good light, suddenly there are no PFF comments in that thread and everyone only talks about what they said. It's just so obvious and sad.

 

But as for them being dumb, again, it's nonsense on the face of it. A majority of the NFL teams buy PFF's stuff. They would not do so if they were not very good at what they do.

 

Not that that proves that they're correct in every value judgment that they make. They're not, anymore than anyone is. But they're a very capable organization.

Sometimes something is so ridiculous it's not worthy of a dignified response.

 

This thread is one of those