What Vet Qbs and Back-Ups to Look at in Off-Season

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

3 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

The Big 3 names that could actually be available are Big Ben, Dalton, and Phillip Rivers.

 

All would be immediate upgrades over Allen, despite their various problems, age, etc.

 

Folks in this thread keep saying Allen is going nowhere.  Did they notice yesterday how their head coach had no faith in Allen's ability to win the game?  And how they chose to instead play for a tie with a 53 yard FG?

 

Don't listen to what the coaching staff says, watch what they do.

 

They have no faith in Allen whatsoever.

 

 

 

That's pure conjecture and you know it.  Secondly, you think Beane and McDermott are going to the Pegulas after this year to get rid of Allen after preaching "The Process"?  If you're so sure, let's make a bet.  Who ever loses, leaves the Board Permanently.  

[K-9]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

There is no QB in the world that has no accuracy issues, and the ones you intimate Allen has are overblown.  Allen needs to continue to progress in reading defenses and knowing what his best choices are pre-snap.

Speaking of reading defenses, that goes for his receivers, too. Heard yet another report this afternoon on One Bills Live that Brown missed a hot signal from Josh on the last drive. That’s a couple key missed reads by Brown in the last few weeks. 
 

On one hand I’m happy that it indicates growth in Allen’s game, on the other I’m concerned that his surrounding personnel is not in the same page enough. Especially at critical junctures in games. 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

There is no QB in the world that has no accuracy issues, and the ones you intimate Allen has are overblown.  Allen needs to continue to progress in reading defenses and knowing what his best choices are pre-snap.

The biggest thing he needs is experience and good coaching. He has the makeup to make changes and improve. And, quite frankly for a raw, young player he's pretty good.

[njbuff]

Maybe if the coaching staff would get Singletary 20-30 touches a game, Josh and the offense might look a lot better.

 

For good grief, I don’t know how the coaching staff doesn’t see this and makes this the identity. This Singletary kid is a TD maker. Look at how he did this in college and how he has translated it to the pros. 

 

This staff is trying to make a young Allen into A young Marino when Allen doesn’t have the Mark’s brothers to throw to.
 

There are 7 games to go. Feed Singletary until he pukes.

 

And what I have just mentioned folks..........

 

IS THE BEST FRIEND to a young QB trying to develop in the NFL and become a star.

[GregPersons]

They should be running a creative run-heavy game with lots of option plays, basically the Greg Roman / Anthony Lynn offense, which is what this personnel seemed suited toward.

[JinxedBill]

This is year 2 in a 3 year campaign with Allen/McClappy/Beane. 

 

Nothings changing till 2021. 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, H2o said:

Pretty sure it was discussed around here and throughout the media many upon many times over.  Again, until yesterday against the Ryan Finley led 0-8 Bengals, Jackson's passing numbers have been average at best throwing the football. Look for yourself. He had 5 TD's and 5 INT's through his previous 6 games throwing the football. He is amazing running it though, I will give him that. Do you honestly believe he would be successful outside of Roman in Baltimore right now? I don't think so. This too shall pass. 

You are working really hard to hate on Lamar. If Allen was doing this, I’d bring do back flips.  Watch the games.  He dominates at times and their defense isn’t close to as good as ours anymore.  Stop hating and just admit you were wrong about him.  Bill Polian did so can you. ?

[r00tabaga]

2 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

Bridgewater!!!!!!!

 

not clear he had the most upside, or that he was the rawest prospect.  I believe that title belonged to Lamar Jackson (rawest and most upside), and he is killing it out there with his arms and legs.  Meanwhile, Josh can't hit wide-open WR's on simple deep routes.  

Better than Trubisky. 

[Bangarang]

The only QB that matters is Allen. If he’s not the answer then I don’t care who the backup is. They won’t be the answer either.

[Reed83HOF]

jesus christ. I just saw this thread...Are we really this far already?

 

Usually you see the biggest jump for a QB in years 1-2; the only ones who took a bit longer are Brees and Alex Smith andi f you really go back, Aikman and Bradshaw. 

 

Allen being so green and raw coming out, you could easily argue this is a year 1 for him which will take us through the end of next season, which is fine honestly. 

[H2o]

8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You are working really hard to hate on Lamar. If Allen was doing this, I’d bring do back flips.  Watch the games.  He dominates at times and their defense isn’t close to as good as ours anymore.  Stop hating and just admit you were wrong about him.  Bill Polian did so can you. ?

No, I'm really not. I have watched him a bunch of times. I live in VA and we get MANY of the Ravens games. I like watching him play, but that doesn't mean I believe it is sustainable or that he would be successful in another system elsewhere. At one point I liked watching the SF teams with Kaep and the other Harbaugh at the helm. The team (Baltimore) is still well built from top to bottom, they have an excellent coaching staff, a good group of players on offense as a whole, and Lamar is in the perfect system for him. They know what they want to do and they do it well. It doesn't mean that I have to admit he is some amazing QB when I surely don't see him that way. He is an amazing athlete though for sure. That long TD run against Cincy yesterday was a thing of beauty. His style of play will cost Baltimore when it counts, just like last year. 

[oldmanfan]

It’s nice that so many people are blowing off steam today.  That’s all it is though, because everyone knows Allen is the QB the rest of this year and next year.  His biggest problem area is recognizing defenses pre-snap and going to the right guy.  Young QBs havevto figure that out.  He needs to speed up that learning process.

 

Long balls don’t concern me that much, although it is strange he isn’t hitting some.  I saw a stat a couple years ago that throws over 30 yards in the air make up maybe 5% of total throws.  You hit one it means a lot but you don’t base an offense on that.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, H2o said:

No, I'm really not. I have watched him a bunch of times. I live in VA and we get MANY of the Ravens games. I like watching him play, but that doesn't mean I believe it is sustainable or that he would be successful in another system elsewhere. At one point I liked watching the SF teams with Kaep and the other Harbaugh at the helm. The team (Baltimore) is still well built from top to bottom, they have an excellent coaching staff, a good group of players on offense as a whole, and Lamar is in the perfect system for him. They know what they want to do and they do it well. It doesn't mean that I have to admit he is some amazing QB when I surely don't see him that way. He is an amazing athlete though for sure. That long TD run against Cincy yesterday was a thing of beauty. His style of play will cost Baltimore when it counts, just like last year. 

What if he, and this might be crazy, continues to improve???  He is better than he was last year and seems to be a hard worker.  And there was a lot more that happened in SF after Harbaugh left.  They lost a ton of talent and had Jeremy Kerley as their number 1 wr.

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

It’s nice that so many people are blowing off steam today.  That’s all it is though, because everyone knows Allen is the QB the rest of this year and next year.  His biggest problem area is recognizing defenses pre-snap and going to the right guy.  Young QBs havevto figure that out.  He needs to speed up that learning process.

 

Long balls don’t concern me that much, although it is strange he isn’t hitting some.  I saw a stat a couple years ago that throws over 30 yards in the air make up maybe 5% of total throws.  You hit one it means a lot but you don’t base an offense on that.

Fair points but if he hits one of those yesterday, we probably win.

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

What if he, and this might be crazy, continues to improve???  He is better than he was last year and seems to be a hard worker.  And there was a lot more that happened in SF after Harbaugh left.  They lost a ton of talent and had Jeremy Kerley as their number 1 wr.

Fair points but if he hits one of those yesterday, we probably win.

True.  That’s why I said if you hit one it means a lot.

[Tesla03]

crazy just a few weeks ago ppl were saying how Allen is light years ahead of Tyrod

 

now fans want him back 

[HOUSE]

[r00tabaga]

2 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

The Big 3 names that could actually be available are Big Ben, Dalton, and Phillip Rivers.

 

All would be immediate upgrades over Allen, despite their various problems, age, etc.

 

Folks in this thread keep saying Allen is going nowhere.  Did they notice yesterday how their head coach had no faith in Allen's ability to win the game?  And how they chose to instead play for a tie with a 53 yard FG?

 

Don't listen to what the coaching staff says, watch what they do.

 

They have no faith in Allen whatsoever.

 

 

Yes. He'll be a bust to you too given enough time.

 

 

On a scale of 1 to 10 how happy are you today?

[Gugny]

3 hours ago, GregPersons said:

Tyrod Taylor, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and Josh Allen in one QB room.

 

Tyrod & Fitz split the first three quarters down the middle. Josh comes in for the 4th. 

 

Three men combined into one reliably decent QB

 

I .... I ..... no ... don't do it, Gugny.   Be strong.

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:

Allen being so green and raw coming out, you could easily argue this is a year 1 for him which will take us through the end of next season, which is fine honestly. 

 

Enough with the excuses.  THIS is the second half of year two no matter how you slice it.  2 mini camps, 2 training camps, 2 summers working with Jordon Palmer, 1 1/2 years of watching film.  He's started 20 games.

 

At what point do we stop making excuses?  3rd season? 40 starts?  5 years?

 

I'm not ready to give up on him necessarily, but he's a big boy.  Stop making excuses for him.  It's time to step up.  This is the bigs.

1 hour ago, Tesla03 said:

crazy just a few weeks ago ppl were saying how Allen is light years ahead of Tyrod

 

You never heard me say that

[Kirby Jackson]

We aren’t replacing Josh with lesser players. If you don’t love Josh start scouting the 2021 QB class. He’s the QB until AT LEAST then.

[4merper4mer]

3 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

I'd like to see us make a serious run at Bridgewater.  Why do you think we have no chance to get him?  We have tons of cap space. I'm thinking after his success this year he wants to start. Who can blame him?  

 

I'd really hate to see us waste a really good D while trying to see if some how Josh can become an accurate passer when the odds of that are like 10 gazillion to 1 he will.

 

I'd also try to trade for Minshew.  Even a first if that's what it takes.

 

 

 

Minshew threw 416 interceptions in the last game he played.

[GregPersons]

16 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I .... I ..... no ... don't do it, Gugny.   Be strong.

 

You're right — I forgot Kyle Orton. 

[Teddy KGB]

1 hour ago, Tesla03 said:

crazy just a few weeks ago ppl were saying how Allen is light years ahead of Tyrod

 

now fans want him back 

 

The posts just keep getting progressively worse.   

 

Name me one person who wants Tyrod back ??. 

 

You’re trying too hard ??

Edited November 11, 2019 by Teddy KGB

[Augie]

4 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Actually Fitzpatrick would be a great backup/mentor for Allen.

 

I think Fitz sticks needles into little QB dolls until he is the starter......again. 

[LDD]

1.) If you think Mason Rudolph looks like the "real deal" you haven't been actually watching Stiller games.

2.) JA would benefit greatly from the advice and mentoring of a veteran QB...bring in Fitzy

3.) JA has intangibles you cannot teach, that's what makes great quarterbacks.  He is advancing in every category but the long ball and his gun slingership, which they have neutered out of him. 

 

[poblano]

5 hours ago, BuffaloBaumer said:

Let me start by saying that if you love Josh Allen and his play so far, no need to respond here. This is for people like myself that want a QB with no accuracy issues and that can be a starter for a couple years as to not waste a relatively good defense. With all of the back-up qbs emerging into starters, there must be some vets that will be available as a stop-gap. What might that list look like as I don't think anyone in the front office will admit that Allen is not the guy.....until end of next year.

 

Barkley

Minshew

Newton

Bridgewater (probably no chance)

Big Ben (if Rudolph continues to look like the real deal)

Winston

 

Sorry, your point is "a QB with no accuracy issues" and then you name Newton. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dumb, just dumb

[Mr. WEO]

I knew I should have stopped after "Let me begin by saying..."

 

Anyway, OP says he wants a QB with "no accuracy issues"...and then starts pining for guys like Winston, Newton, Barkley, 

[Numark3]

5 hours ago, BuffaloBaumer said:

Let me start by saying that if you love Josh Allen and his play so far, no need to respond here. This is for people like myself that want a QB with no accuracy issues and that can be a starter for a couple years as to not waste a relatively good defense. With all of the back-up qbs emerging into starters, there must be some vets that will be available as a stop-gap. What might that list look like as I don't think anyone in the front office will admit that Allen is not the guy.....until end of next year.

 

Barkley

Minshew

Newton

Bridgewater (probably no chance)

Big Ben (if Rudolph continues to look like the real deal)

Winston

 

Doesn’t like accuracy or turnover issues 
 

lists Winston

 

 

[Big Gun]

6 hours ago, BuffaloBaumer said:

Let me start by saying that if you love Josh Allen and his play so far, no need to respond here. This is for people like myself that want a QB with no accuracy issues and that can be a starter for a couple years as to not waste a relatively good defense. With all of the back-up qbs emerging into starters, there must be some vets that will be available as a stop-gap. What might that list look like as I don't think anyone in the front office will admit that Allen is not the guy.....until end of next year.

 

Barkley

Minshew

Newton

Bridgewater (probably no chance)

Big Ben (if Rudolph continues to look like the real deal)

Winston

 

Allen is here for the long haul, deal with it!

[fansince88]

Great post!

[H2o]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

What if he, and this might be crazy, continues to improve???  He is better than he was last year and seems to be a hard worker.  And there was a lot more that happened in SF after Harbaugh left.  They lost a ton of talent and had Jeremy Kerley as their number 1 wr.

I didn't say he couldn't improve. It is possible. He also does seem to work hard and is loved by his teammates. The thing I like about his situation is they are not trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. That is exactly the opposite of what they are doing with Josh here, but Josh has still improved as a passer. I understand trying to get him to cut down on the INT'S, but you have to let him be himself at the same time. Lamar has shown some improvement, but they are letting him play free. I have seen him revert back to last year's Lamar though, especially in the 6 games prior to Cincy. If they are winning then great, but running Lamar is not going to get them to the promised land. It will cost them in the playoffs.  

[Phil The Thrill]

6 hours ago, BuffaloBaumer said:

Let me start by saying that if you love Josh Allen and his play so far, no need to respond here. This is for people like myself that want a QB with no accuracy issues and that can be a starter for a couple years as to not waste a relatively good defense. With all of the back-up qbs emerging into starters, there must be some vets that will be available as a stop-gap. What might that list look like as I don't think anyone in the front office will admit that Allen is not the guy.....until end of next year.

 

Barkley

Minshew

Newton

Bridgewater (probably no chance)

Big Ben (if Rudolph continues to look like the real deal)

Winston

 

So this won’t happen - there’s no need to even entertain this question.  Josh Allen is getting next year with about a certainty of 99%.

 

If McDermott was on the hot seat then maybe you’d see the team make a move to bring in a player like Andy Dalton.  But McDermott is pretty comfortable and I don’t think this will happen.

[Tcali]

6 hours ago, bigK14094 said:

I still think Allen will make it.......when I think of how bad JP Losman was, and how bad EJ Manuel was......Allen is better than either by a lot at this point.  So, cool your jets, Allen is here for at least two more years beyond this....and, by then, we will know.  I shudder to think how long it took Kurt Warmer (two super bowl rings) to mature...including time in the infamous arena league.  What I am saying is Allen has all the tools.....JP didn't have the head, EJ didn't have the arm and had a poor presence on the field.....Josh seems to have avoided those problems.  Yes, he is still working on his mechanics and learning the pro game....but, I think, he will progress.  He didn't play in the SEC or the Big Ten....he played at Wyoming...and, has a little further to come than SEC/ACC QB's imho.

JA is waaaaaaaaay better than Losman or EJ. But he is still not that good. JA is a gamer and i think a winner. Unfortunately he cant throw a long ball and his judgment out there is mediocre. --Still so much better than EJ or Losman that its not even a discussion

[Alphadawg7]

Calling it now:  This thread is wrong.  

[ALLEN1QB]

Honestly have you ever seen an NFL quarterback that is any worse than Josh Allen at the long pass?

Edited November 12, 2019 by ALLEN1QB

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 hours ago, msw2112 said:

The problem with Fitz is that he comes in everywhere, the starter struggles or gets hurt, Fitz comes in and lights it up for a few games (Fitzmagic), you have a QB controversy and it screws up the team chemistry and/or a young guy isn't getting the reps he needs to develop.  It's not Fitz's fault, but that's just how it plays out, time and time (and time) again.  I am a huge Fitzpatrick fan, but I don't see this plan working out for the Bills.

 

Jordan Palmer made exactly that point when Rosen was discussed.  It's not that Fitz isn't a great guy, helpful and willing to mentor. 

Palmer made the point that Fitz is one of the hardest guys to compete against because he's so likeable.  He's witty, he's extremely football-smart, he can be hysterically funny.  The locker room gravitates towards him and once they play with him and get a taste of Fitzmagic they're his and they're going to be less enthused about the rookie.

 

Then he falls apart.

[Dr.Sack]

Allen is the same age (23) right now that Tom Brady was his rookie season in 2000. Let’s be honest, Allen is unpolished and is simply asked to not lose the game. They want to win with defense and not turning the ball over. Allen has gotten much better at not throwing picks. Where we need to see progression is in recognizing the blitz and where and when to hit the checkdown. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

11 hours ago, BuffaloBaumer said:

Let me start by saying that if you love Josh Allen and his play so far, no need to respond here. This is for people like myself that want a QB with no accuracy issues and that can be a starter for a couple years as to not waste a relatively good defense. With all of the back-up qbs emerging into starters, there must be some vets that will be available as a stop-gap. What might that list look like as I don't think anyone in the front office will admit that Allen is not the guy.....until end of next year.

 

Barkley

Minshew

Newton

Bridgewater (probably no chance)

Big Ben (if Rudolph continues to look like the real deal)

Winston

 

While I appreciate your offer not to respond here as an all-in Allen believer, I have to say you’re doing the equivalent of relieving yourself into the wind while driving down the highway—it’s going nowhere you want it to. Allen is here to stay and most definitely not the overarching reason we struggled to put it away Sunday. Room to get significantly better? Of course, but that’s also because what we can see his physical tools allow for as a ceiling is tops in his class—he just has to put it all together and that takes time, which I’m well aware you don’t want to give him. But this FO will, so long as they run the show.