Ed Oliver doesn't look very good

[Comebackkid]

i wonder how many on here would have proclaimed bruce smith a bust during preseason or even his first season.  there is a reason they are called "rookies"

[KGun12TD]

2 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

You should PM Stallions and see if the two of you can get together for a beer or something.

lol...THIS!!!

[vincec]

4 minutes ago, Comebackkid said:

i wonder how many on here would have proclaimed bruce smith a bust during preseason or even his first season.  there is a reason they are called "rookies"

I was thinking the same thing. Problem is that guys like Aaron Donald ruined that for regular rookies. As long as Oliver can hold his own and make the occasional play I'll be satisfied for his rookie season.

Edited August 26, 2019 by vincec

[whorlnut]

One thing I’ve learned as a Bills fan...never doubt a defensive player, but any offensive player that struggles is fair game. 

[Green Lightning]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

This got me thinking about how AD did in his first three preseason games as a rookie. Well, he had a grand total of 2 tackles through three preseason games. No sacks, no TFLs. 

 

So much for the predictive properties of a rookie defensive tackles’s preseason performance.

I know, crazy thread. Oliver's first step is elite and as he develops he is going to be a terror. I can't wait to see him later this season and in the future. Gonna be fun. 

[PUNT750]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Bust no. Just not going to impact like we thought. 

 

I agree with your view.  He's made very little impact, especially against the Detroit starters. I don't think he can out muscle anyone even in pre-season!

[formerlyofCtown]

2 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

You have been given examples of his getting off blocks yet keep saying that he can’t get of a block. Here’s another example, the very first preseason game he was double teamed, got off the double and was in on the tackle, against an all pro at that. Not so much to be worried about, he’s doing fine for a rookie who has yet to play his first game.

 

Go Bills!!!

Double involving an All-Pro Guard.  If an All-Pro needs help it says something about the DT he's blocking doesnt it.

[Trogdor]

2 hours ago, Bubba Gump said:

Since Ed has been here, I've actually noticed Star more. So the double teams Oliver is seeing are making a difference, IMO.

I'm actually wondering if it wouldn't be a good idea to throw Harry in instead of Star. Now that Oliver eats the doubles it seems to take the role away from Star.

[vincec]

1 minute ago, Trogdor said:

I'm actually wondering if it wouldn't be a good idea to throw Harry in instead of Star. Now that Oliver eats the doubles it seems to take the role away from Star.

I've been underwhelmed by H Phillips this preseason. I was expecting a big jump from him but he looks like the worst of the 4 DTs right now.

[Trogdor]

4 minutes ago, vincec said:

I've been underwhelmed by H Phillips this preseason. I was expecting a big jump from him but he looks like the worst of the 4 DTs right now.

He looked great when Shaq was stacking up the whole O-Line lol. I guess I'm just looking for an upgrade over Star. Phillips could probably slide in there. 

 

[Mat68]

5 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

I'm actually wondering if it wouldn't be a good idea to throw Harry in instead of Star. Now that Oliver eats the doubles it seems to take the role away from Star.

Imo they are putting ed in less then favorable positions to see how he reacts.  His biggest question mark was his ability to hold up vs NFL double teams.  He hasnt been terrible, and he has flashed here and there.  Come gameplaning and scheming comes into play in 2 weeks, I'm excited to see how he is used.  Pretty much Ed passed the test in preseason of looking like an NFL DT.  He wasnt wide eyed our looked out of place. 

[Augie]

3 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I didn't say anything about worked. He has effort. He just can't get off blocks. 

 

Do you need attention?  

 

Week #1 he was facing an All Pro LG, who needed a double team on most plays. Does he need to get better with his hands and getting off blocks? Sure. Bruce Smith was no great shakes his first preseason. Chubbers Deluxe. But he learned. He worked and he learned, and he had the natural tools to make it happen.

 

NO, I’m not saying Ed is Bruce level or ever will be.... but it takes time. 

[Romie]

His motor is ridiculous.  I think your wrong.  We will find out.

[akcash]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

I appreciate the clarification. I agree he’s been stymied on pass rush the last two games,  but I’m not gonna worry until I see how he does when we start scheming our pass rush. He’s more than held his own vs. the run. Like I said earlier,  by my count he’s lost leverage just twice all preseason. He’s been very good, actually.

 

 

He’s been stymied on the pass rush the last two games after doing well in game one. 

 

On all his run snaps, he’s lost leverage twice in the three games. Twice. In that regard, he’s been anything but “bested, outperformed, or overmatched.” Maybe we’re not watching the same games.

I totally agree about the run. I feel like hes more than held his own against the double teams and had a slight affect as far as getting in the running backs way or getting push in one on ones... has probably have a few .5 tfls this preseason too.

[TigerJ]

Oliver is a talented rookie.  That means he flashes sometimes, but he also struggles.  He has a limited repertoire of moves because he didn't need as much in college, but being undersized in the NFL, he needs more than just quickness.  He needs to be able to do enough different things to keep smart, strong and athletic offensive guards.  He'll be fine, but he's got some growing to do.

[Reed83HOF]

sigh

[Jauronimo]

3 hours ago, Bubba Gump said:

Since Ed has been here, I've actually noticed Star more. So the double teams Oliver is seeing are making a difference, IMO.

So what you're saying is his value as a decoy cannot be quantified.  He sounds a lot like Lee Evans in that regard.

[fansince88]

4 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I’ve seen him penetrate multiple times.  There was a run play in the last game where he cut straight through the line and in the back field almost immediately after the handoff.

What? I think you replied to the wrong post. 

[Buffalo Boy]

3 hours ago, K-9 said:

DOOMED!!!

Wow!!!!! What a large font you have?

[Augie]

11 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

So what you're saying is his value as a decoy cannot be quantified.  He sounds a lot like Lee Evans in that regard.

 

I’m hoping it’s more on an OJ level. Call me greedy. 

[Augie]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

Wow!!!!! What a large font you have?

 

Blazing Saddles? 

 

“It’s Twu, it’s twu!”

[Mrbojanglezs]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

Wow!!!!! What a large font you have?

 

[Mr. WEO]

Maybe it's something he ate...

[Bubba Gump]

30 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

So what you're saying is his value as a decoy cannot be quantified.  He sounds a lot like Lee Evans in that regard.

 

Not saying that at all. Just that his presence alone is opening things up for other players. That happens to be a good thing.

[hemma]

I was hesitant about him before the draft because of his arm length.  I couldn’t find an instance of an interior DL that became an Al Pro with an arm length of < 32” and some of those OL are at 35”.

 

The more he can keep their hands off him, the better he’ll perform.  Stunts and some wax on wax off training.

He may end up being close to the top of the league in causing false starts and holding calls.

 

He’ll get there.  You can see it ..... he hates to lose, so he’ll be a worker.

 

..

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Kyle wasnt great either.

 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 hours ago, MJS said:

I'll trust the evaluation of the professionals.

Why? 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

DT is one of the hardest positions to transition from college to pro.  It will take a few years for him to dominate.  His quickness will be difficult to deal with even by NFL lineman.  He should provide an interior pass rush the Bills have not had in the last 3 years or so.  He will be a liability against the run for the first couple of years.  Kyle was never that good against the run either.  If he can avoid getting pushed out of position too often they should be ok.  Edmunds is a year wiser and hopefully he will take better angles to the ball.  He improved during the season last year.  

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, Ethan in Portland said:

DT is one of the hardest positions to transition from college to pro.  It will take a few years for him to dominate.  His quickness will be difficult to deal with even by NFL lineman.  He should provide an interior pass rush the Bills have not had in the last 3 years or so.  He will be a liability against the run for the first couple of years.  Kyle was never that good against the run either.  If he can avoid getting pushed out of position too often they should be ok.  Edmunds is a year wiser and hopefully he will take better angles to the ball.  He improved during the season last year.  

I have actually seen nothing in pre season that would indicate he will be a liability against the run....even when double teamed

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

I have actually seen nothing in pre season that would indicate he will be a liability against the run....even when double teamed

First two games will tell

[MJS]

15 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Why? 

Because they make lots of money to know what they are looking at. A bunch of couch fans don't.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Anyone capable of maintaining standing balance on an equine mobile platform should also have what it takes to obtain superior leverage at the point of attack on most plays. Color me unconcerned. This kid was salivated over by plenty of teams behind us, for good reason!

[Ethan in Cleveland]

10 minutes ago, MJS said:

Because they make lots of money to know what they are looking at. A bunch of couch fans don't.

Only two of those three things are correct.  

[Buffalo716]

49 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

DT is one of the hardest positions to transition from college to pro.  It will take a few years for him to dominate.  His quickness will be difficult to deal with even by NFL lineman.  He should provide an interior pass rush the Bills have not had in the last 3 years or so.  He will be a liability against the run for the first couple of years.  Kyle was never that good against the run either.  If he can avoid getting pushed out of position too often they should be ok.  Edmunds is a year wiser and hopefully he will take better angles to the ball.  He improved during the season last year.  

He was a better run stuffer than pass rusher in college. Leg CFB for tackles for loss and was top 5 another season

 

When you run away from him he will get there backside

[Freddie's Dead]

I am fine with what Oliver has shown so far.  I see him taking on double-teams, penetrating when he's one on one, and generally winning battles.  Yes, there are plays where he gets stymied, but he's not going to win every battle.  He's a rook, so I'm cutting him some slack.

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Why? 

Because lets be honest......they appear to be doing a pretty good job at least on the D

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

You have a point Buffalo Stampede but so does the rest arguing the fact. The knock on him is that he doesn't have the size or strengths to play DT in the NFL and you saw him get taken out in a few plays against Detroit. Also this is going to happen, no player wins on every snap, it's just not going to happen and he's undersized so he has to work even harder imo. I think he'll be fine, he doesn't look out of place at all to me at least and he actually gave all pro Quentin nelson all he could handle in that game, preseason or not that was very good to see.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

14 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

You have a point Buffalo Stampede but so does the rest arguing the fact. The knock on him is that he doesn't have the size or strengths to play DT in the NFL and you saw him get taken out in a few plays against Detroit. Also this is going to happen, no player wins on every snap, it's just not going to happen and he's undersized so he has to work even harder imo. I think he'll be fine, he doesn't look out of place at all to me at least and he actually gave all pro Quentin nelson all he could handle in that game, preseason or not that was very good to see.

I'm not disagreeing with any counterpoints. Oliver was the guy I wanted the whole time, but I think we're viewing him the wrong way. I don't think he'll be a dominant pass rusher inside.

[Buffalo Boy]

4 hours ago, Bubba Gump said:

 

Not saying that at all. Just that his presence alone is opening things up for other players. That happens to be a good thing.

Which is Star’s role also.

One of two glaring needs on this roster is Pass rushing DE. Next year , IMO , it will be one of their priorities. At that point, having Oliver and Star in the middle will offer opposing offenses a “ pick your poison “ scenario. Who do you choose to double? Where do you choose to slide your protection?

Pressure from the inside and outside, simultaneously....... with a top five defensive backfield to boot?

McDermott knows what he is doing.

[Alphadawg7]

This is really 5 pages?