Mitch Morse in concussion protocol

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You might be right AFL but that’s what’s scary about people who suffer multiple concussions.  They could sleep wrong and it could lead to one, much less play a sport where every play is described as a car crash. 

 

I would be really interested to know how much this played into KC not re-signing him. 

Interesting thought. It very well may have had a little something to do with it, but hopefully he will be fine and make it through the season without another one. I don't remember who KC replaced him with(will have to look it up), but maybe they were just wanting to move on to a younger player who won't cost them as much.

 

Don't really know their cap situation but the amount Morse is getting/or what he would have commanded from them may have had something to do with it as well. But yes, I agree it's very easy to get another concussion so maybe the Bills are playing it safe and resting him up real good IDK

[NoSaint]

1 minute ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Interesting thought. It very well may have had a little something to do with it, but hopefully he will be fine and make it through the season without another one. I don't remember who KC replaced him with(will have to look it up), but maybe they were just wanting to move on to a younger player who won't cost them as much.

 

Don't really know their cap situation but the amount Morse is getting/or what he would have commanded from them may have had something to do with it as well. But yes, I agree it's very easy to get another concussion so maybe the Bills are playing it safe and resting him up real good IDK

 

Their upcoming cap situation gets tricky. Likely a combo of health and cost. Hard to let someone else walk for a high risk guy. Though I suppose tyreeks pretty high risk in his own way 

[CuddyDark]

22 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Watch the embedded feature on the Bills YouTube channel; there's absolutely zero ambiguity regarding who's in charge of the draft.

 

Hint: it's not McDermott.

Embedded takes place after all the decisions have been made. They have already provided McDermott with their list of players and McDermott has already said which players he'd consider. This the way it works in most NFL organizations. You think they made decision on players in that moment?

[Doc]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

Their upcoming cap situation gets tricky. Likely a combo of health and cost. Hard to let someone else walk for a high risk guy. Though I suppose tyreeks pretty high risk in his own way 

 

Between Mahomes, Hill and Chris Jones, they're looking at at least $70M/year alone in salary.

[Fan in San Diego]

15 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Seems often when someone has a concussion, they are supposed to stay in a darkened room, try to minimize movement, etc.  Morse was reported on the sideline the last two practices at camp.

 

Makes me think this is a training camp level concussion. Not saying it's fake at all, but more like Morse told them I bumped my head a little.  Great just to be extra safe, we'll put you in protocol.  If this were regular season, he'd be playing.

I really hope this is the case. A great excuse to rest a seasoned player.

[cle23]

15 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Seems often when someone has a concussion, they are supposed to stay in a darkened room, try to minimize movement, etc.  Morse was reported on the sideline the last two practices at camp.

 

Makes me think this is a training camp level concussion. Not saying it's fake at all, but more like Morse told them I bumped my head a little.  Great just to be extra safe, we'll put you in protocol.  If this were regular season, he'd be playing.

 

 

Not every concussion has light sensitivity. They all can vary, though that is a common symptom.

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, CuddyDark said:

Embedded takes place after all the decisions have been made. They have already provided McDermott with their list of players and McDermott has already said which players he'd consider. This the way it works in most NFL organizations. You think they made decision on players in that moment?

Anyone who thinks a modern major league sports franchise leaves big decisions to a  single guy is misinformed.

 

I assure you it's very much a team/group affair.

Sure, someone has to have final sign-off at the end, but it's a team sport.

 

 

[CuddyDark]

49 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Anyone who thinks a modern major league sports franchise leaves big decisions to a  single guy is misinformed.

 

I assure you it's very much a team/group affair.

Sure, someone has to have final sign-off at the end, but it's a team sport.

 

 

We believe the same thing. Anyone who believe Beane was making all the decision on draft night is misinformed.

[WideNine]

16 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Seems often when someone has a concussion, they are supposed to stay in a darkened room, try to minimize movement, etc.  Morse was reported on the sideline the last two practices at camp.

 

Makes me think this is a training camp level concussion. Not saying it's fake at all, but more like Morse told them I bumped my head a little.  Great just to be extra safe, we'll put you in protocol.  If this were regular season, he'd be playing.

 

Protocols for concussions have changed over the years and non-contact exercise is recommended I believe.

 

Light sensitivity is a common symptom, but I don't think light is something to avoid.

 

I would be shocked if the Bills training staff is not current on latest treatment protocols. These players are multi-million dollar investments.

 

 

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, WideNine said:

 

Protocols for concussions have changed over the years and non-contact exercise is recommended I believe.

 

Light sensitivity is a common symptom, but I don't think light is something to avoid.

 

I would be shocked if the Bills training staff is not current on latest treatment protocols. These players are multi-million dollar investments.

 

 

There are phases or steps to recovery.   It’s not just stay in a dark room and then when that’s over you are good to go. Exercise starts about half way I think.   

[Hapless Bills Fan]

23 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Seems often when someone has a concussion, they are supposed to stay in a darkened room, try to minimize movement, etc.  Morse was reported on the sideline the last two practices at camp.

 

Makes me think this is a training camp level concussion. Not saying it's fake at all, but more like Morse told them I bumped my head a little.  Great just to be extra safe, we'll put you in protocol.  If this were regular season, he'd be playing.

 

So I think this guy may be a bit of an iconoclast (for example, I don't think it's widely accepted that one concussion does not make you more susceptible to another), but his group has published a lot about concussion recovery where fundamentally they encourage the patients to perform controlled exercises to retrain the injured parts of their brain.

 

https://www.outsideonline.com/1928476/new-science-concussion-recovery

 

Anyway, the bottom line is that the darkened room, minimize movement stuff is apparently outdated.  But I also agree with you that if Morse's concussion were very serious he wouldn't be running ladder drills on the sidelines.

[Da webster guy]

This is the stuff that bugs me about front office/pr people.    We support the team through thick and thin, but when something as critical this comes up, there should be more communication with the fans regarding the prognosis, his history w concussions, treatment protocol etc.

 

Morse is it for us this year.  We can't have Bodine getting steamrolled into Josh on every other play like last year.  We don't have depth at center, this isn't a minor thing.   Guys younger than Mitch retire over this condition.

 

Or maybe it IS minor, but we wouldn't know because there's no information coming our way.   

 

Reminds me of Donahoe/Gregggg era.   We don't deserve to know, as long as they know.  (p.s. thanks for the one way relationship)

[timekills17]

7 hours ago, Da webster guy said:

This is the stuff that bugs me about front office/pr people.    We support the team through thick and thin, but when something as critical this comes up, there should be more communication with the fans regarding the prognosis, his history w concussions, treatment protocol etc.

 

Morse is it for us this year.  We can't have Bodine getting steamrolled into Josh on every other play like last year.  We don't have depth at center, this isn't a minor thing.   Guys younger than Mitch retire over this condition.

 

Or maybe it IS minor, but we wouldn't know because there's no information coming our way.   

 

Reminds me of Donahoe/Gregggg era.   We don't deserve to know, as long as they know.  (p.s. thanks for the one way relationship)

 

You're complaining about the wrong people. Sort of.

In reality, the team, including the PR who frame HOW the message gets out, not so much WHAT they're allowed to say, would prefer to release nothing.

It's a fight between legal (HIPAA, NFLPA, NFL proper) and the gambling consortium.

 

Gambling, big money, wants to know who's injured, the extent, etc. so they can properly assess their risk and lines.

HIPAA has rules on what can be released reference medical information. NFL Players Association (NFLPA) have their own agreement with NFL proper as to how much/when/& what is acceptable inside the HIPAA overarching requirements. NFL proper negotiates with gambling consortium to meet gambling consortium requests while maintaining NFL's desires and messages and also staying in line with HIPAA laws and NFLPA agreement. 

 

A public affairs team gets the info, is informed what is legally allowed to be released (based on the above HIPAA, NFL agreements and NFLPA agreements) as well as what they MUST release (again, based on NFL agreements with gambling - among others, but mostly gambling even under other names) as directed by NFL, and then they frame HOW and WHEN to release inside those directives.

Edited August 4, 2019 by timekills17

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I remember when I was playing flag football and it was a rainy day and a guy from the other team hit me in the head with his knee after a sweep right. I saw that 250 lb RG just sliding on the slippery grass in slow motion and his knee just nailed me on my left temple. I got up, played 2 more plays and walked to the sideline where I couldn’t remember names of my friends that I have known for years. It took me like 5 days to start feeling normal again, the brain fog lasted 5 days were I just felt so horrible. If Mitch has had 5 of these or more we definitely have to get a plan B, C and D for the center position. 

[Bill from NYC]

7 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I remember when I was playing flag football and it was a rainy day and a guy from the other team hit me in the head with his knee after a sweep right. I saw that 250 lb RG just sliding on the slippery grass in slow motion and his knee just nailed me on my left temple. I got up, played 2 more plays and walked to the sideline where I couldn’t remember names of my friends that I have known for years. It took me like 5 days to start feeling normal again, the brain fog lasted 5 days were I just felt so horrible. If Mitch has had 5 of these or more we definitely have to get a plan B, C and D for the center position. 

Wow.

 

[nucci]

18 hours ago, Fan in San Diego said:

I really hope this is the case. A great excuse to rest a seasoned player.

Yet he is supposed to anchor a brand new offensive line.....and work with Allen so it can't be just resting a seasoned vet

[PromoTheRobot]

2 minutes ago, nucci said:

Yet he is supposed to anchor a brand new offensive line.....and work with Allen so it can't be just resting a seasoned vet

 

They can practice all they want. Just avoid getting whacked in the head in a meaningless preseason game. What I worry about is every other team will be aiming for Morse's head now.

[WickedGame]

11 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I remember when I was playing flag football and it was a rainy day and a guy from the other team hit me in the head with his knee after a sweep right. I saw that 250 lb RG just sliding on the slippery grass in slow motion and his knee just nailed me on my left temple. I got up, played 2 more plays and walked to the sideline where I couldn’t remember names of my friends that I have known for years. It took me like 5 days to start feeling normal again, the brain fog lasted 5 days were I just felt so horrible. If Mitch has had 5 of these or more we definitely have to get a plan B, C and D for the center position. 

 

I had similar symptoms with my first concussion. Took a hard knock on the head, and just assumed I got my bell rung and that I’d shake it off after a bit of cursing. The thought of a concussion didn’t cross my mind. 

 

I didn’t get real concerned until about an hour later when I was riding in the car to dinner with my family. I got a little nauseous, and when my wife saw the look and my face and asked if I was okay, I couldn’t even spit out a sentence. Then when we got to the restaurant, I could read the menu and recognize the words, but I couldn’t process them. Can’t really find a better way to describe it. I would see the words “burger and fries,” and I knew I recognized the words, but I couldn’t put it together what those things were. I tried just pointing at a menu item, but the minute the waitress asked me a question, all I could do was mumble. All of this was happening in front of my 7-year-old son...pretty scary when you’re a kid to see that happening to your old man. My wife immediately took me to the hospital and they recognized a concussion almost right away. 

[PromoTheRobot]

9 hours ago, Da webster guy said:

This is the stuff that bugs me about front office/pr people.    We support the team through thick and thin, but when something as critical this comes up, there should be more communication with the fans regarding the prognosis, his history w concussions, treatment protocol etc.

 

Morse is it for us this year.  We can't have Bodine getting steamrolled into Josh on every other play like last year.  We don't have depth at center, this isn't a minor thing.   Guys younger than Mitch retire over this condition.

 

Or maybe it IS minor, but we wouldn't know because there's no information coming our way.   

 

Reminds me of Donahoe/Gregggg era.   We don't deserve to know, as long as they know.  (p.s. thanks for the one way relationship)

 

And what if you knew more? Then all our opponents will know as well. When Bill Belichick is an open book then we can be one too.

[NewEra]

9 hours ago, Da webster guy said:

This is the stuff that bugs me about front office/pr people.    We support the team through thick and thin, but when something as critical this comes up, there should be more communication with the fans regarding the prognosis, his history w concussions, treatment protocol etc.

 

Morse is it for us this year.  We can't have Bodine getting steamrolled into Josh on every other play like last year.  We don't have depth at center, this isn't a minor thing.   Guys younger than Mitch retire over this condition.

 

Or maybe it IS minor, but we wouldn't know because there's no information coming our way.   

 

Reminds me of Donahoe/Gregggg era.   We don't deserve to know, as long as they know.  (p.s. thanks for the one way relationship)

Oh man

[TheBeaneBandit]

Morse had core surgery this offseason as well which the Bills may be giving as much time as possible to heal fully before the long season ahead. Just another angle that could be possibly playing into this.

Edited August 4, 2019 by TheBeaneBandit
Spelling nazis

[Cripple Creek]

28 minutes ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

Morse had core surgery this offseason as well which the Bills may be giving as much time as possible to heal fully before the long season ahead. Just another angle that could be possibly playing into this.

Thanks.  Reminding me that this isn't close to his first off season injury makes me feel so much more nervous.

[BillnutinHouston]

1 hour ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I remember when I was playing flag football and it was a rainy day and a guy from the other team hit me in the head with his knee after a sweep right. I saw that 250 lb RG just sliding on the slippery grass in slow motion and his knee just nailed me on my left temple. I got up, played 2 more plays and walked to the sideline where I couldn’t remember names of my friends that I have known for years. It took me like 5 days to start feeling normal again, the brain fog lasted 5 days were I just felt so horrible. If Mitch has had 5 of these or more we definitely have to get a plan B, C and D for the center position. 

 

Sounds familiar.  My concussion stories:

 

5 or 6 years old, just learned to ride a bike.  Riding down our street when something made me look back behind me, then things went blank.  Turns out when I was looking backwards, I ran into a parked car.  I was out cold, neighbor carried me home.

 

Age 15 or 16, playing touch football in the street.  Ran a play as a receiver and hit my head on the pavement.  Went back to the huddle, then just wandered back to the backyard, where I proceeded to pick a carrot from the garden I had planted.  Needless to say, the game ended at that point.

[MJS]

12 hours ago, Da webster guy said:

This is the stuff that bugs me about front office/pr people.    We support the team through thick and thin, but when something as critical this comes up, there should be more communication with the fans regarding the prognosis, his history w concussions, treatment protocol etc.

 

Morse is it for us this year.  We can't have Bodine getting steamrolled into Josh on every other play like last year.  We don't have depth at center, this isn't a minor thing.   Guys younger than Mitch retire over this condition.

 

Or maybe it IS minor, but we wouldn't know because there's no information coming our way.   

 

Reminds me of Donahoe/Gregggg era.   We don't deserve to know, as long as they know.  (p.s. thanks for the one way relationship)

You apparently have no idea what concussion protocol is. Teams aren't allowed to give information other than saying he is still in concussion protocol. That's part of the rules.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

5 hours ago, BillnutinHouston said:

 

Sounds familiar.  My concussion stories:

 

5 or 6 years old, just learned to ride a bike.  Riding down our street when something made me look back behind me, then things went blank.  Turns out when I was looking backwards, I ran into a parked car.  I was out cold, neighbor carried me home.

 

Age 15 or 16, playing touch football in the street.  Ran a play as a receiver and hit my head on the pavement.  Went back to the huddle, then just wandered back to the backyard, where I proceeded to pick a carrot from the garden I had planted.  Needless to say, the game ended at that point.

Nothing about hitting your head and blacking out is funny, but when you said you wandered into the back yard and ate a carrot that brought tears to my eyes. 

 

It is a scary feeling though. If they have gotten progressively worse where your not sure if you will get back mentally 100% I would definitely think about retiring.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

6 hours ago, WickedGame said:

 

I had similar symptoms with my first concussion. Took a hard knock on the head, and just assumed I got my bell rung and that I’d shake it off after a bit of cursing. The thought of a concussion didn’t cross my mind. 

 

I didn’t get real concerned until about an hour later when I was riding in the car to dinner with my family. I got a little nauseous, and when my wife saw the look and my face and asked if I was okay, I couldn’t even spit out a sentence. Then when we got to the restaurant, I could read the menu and recognize the words, but I couldn’t process them. Can’t really find a better way to describe it. I would see the words “burger and fries,” and I knew I recognized the words, but I couldn’t put it together what those things were. I tried just pointing at a menu item, but the minute the waitress asked me a question, all I could do was mumble. All of this was happening in front of my 7-year-old son...pretty scary when you’re a kid to see that happening to your old man. My wife immediately took me to the hospital and they recognized a concussion almost right away. 

I know the feeling, I have two boys that are 13 and 8 and they look at you like your super man. My 8 year old always ask me if I can beat John  Cena and I just laugh. 

[Patrick Duffy]

9 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I know the feeling, I have two boys that are 13 and 8 and they look at you like your super man. My 8 year old always ask me if I can beat John  Cena and I just laugh. 

 

You tell him "hell yeah, Cena sucks, anyone can beat him. He's just an old has been son"

[Augie]

7 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I remember when I was playing flag football and it was a rainy day and a guy from the other team hit me in the head with his knee after a sweep right. I saw that 250 lb RG just sliding on the slippery grass in slow motion and his knee just nailed me on my left temple. I got up, played 2 more plays and walked to the sideline where I couldn’t remember names of my friends that I have known for years. It took me like 5 days to start feeling normal again, the brain fog lasted 5 days were I just felt so horrible. If Mitch has had 5 of these or more we definitely have to get a plan B, C and D for the center position. 

 

While playing rugby in college I took a knee to the head along the sidelines and fell OB. I remember the coach standing over me yelling for me to get back on the field. I did not know they couldn’t stop play for you unless you were on the field.That “rang me bell” pretty good, and I needed directions back to the field. He had to point....I think I crawled. 

 

THAT was my last rugby game. I sure hope they have changed that rule. The very LAST thing you want is someone like that moving until you know what you’re dealing with! I never got the nausea, etc. but I did spend most of that summer in a neck brace for my efforts. Another time I got kicked in the head at Notre Dame and had a few bad days after that. Never went to a doctor. 

 

I’ll save you the trouble: That might explain a few things! 

[LABILLBACKER]

We can send a man to the moon but we can't come up with a better helmet?

[Gugny]

41 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

We can send a man to the moon but we can't come up with a better helmet?

 

We didn't really send a man to the moon.

[Chandler#81]

13 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

We didn't really send a man to the moon.

 

So, CTE it is!

[iinii]

55 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

We can send a man to the moon but we can't come up with a better helmet?

A better helmet is part of the problem. The  better the helmet the harder players hit. The more they feel protected the faster they play. 

[Punching Bag]

On 8/1/2019 at 11:50 PM, Captain Murica said:

Morse needs to invest in the Kelso helmet

 

As I have reported before that helmet is not available.

Kelso in fact has recommended another helmet for which the manufacturers are having trouble getting leeway in NFL due to NFL equipment rules and pushback from NFLPA.

[Gugny]

6 hours ago, iinii said:

A better helmet is part of the problem. The  better the helmet the harder players hit. The more they feel protected the faster they play. 

 

I agree with this 100%.  Take away some of that full body armor and I'm guessing players would be less-reckless with their bodies.

[Punching Bag]

7 hours ago, iinii said:

A better helmet is part of the problem. The  better the helmet the harder players hit. The more they feel protected the faster they play. 

 

There are better helmets which do not make better weapons but the NFL has not allowed it on approved list and the NFLPA has objected to any safety improvements.  For the NFL it appears it is just the bureaucracy and contracts with companies which pay endorsement deals. For NFLPA I am not sure, only thing which makes financial sense is players not able to make incentives in contracts other than the usual "make a change we want something in return even if it helps our members."

[Ittakestime]

WGR talking how Morse might miss entire year.  Wondering if that is what is being talked about in Rochester around the campus.

[Buddy Hix]

19 minutes ago, Ittakestime said:

WGR talking how Morse might miss entire year.  Wondering if that is what is being talked about in Rochester around the campus.

WGR is probably just exploring all scenarios, I think this version of OBD has been pretty good at keeping things under wraps and I'd be surprised if there were leaks on medical evaluations.

 

That being said, would it really shock anybody if Morse sat out a year or called it quits? Morse just signed a huge deal, with a ton of guaranteed signing bonus money, and has his entire life ahead of him.

 

I know a lot of posters don't like to speculate on negative issues until they actually happen, and I respect that approach, but I think discussing issues from all angles is part of what makes a forum like this tick.

 

Regardless, I think Beane should be doing everything he can to find a decent backup for Morse. Bodine playing significant minutes would pretty much doom our Oline and hurt Allen's progression in his second year.

[MR8]

9 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

As I have reported before that helmet is not available.

Kelso in fact has recommended another helmet for which the manufacturers are having trouble getting leeway in NFL due to NFL equipment rules and pushback from NFLPA.

 

i posed about this earlier in this thread... there ARE Better helmets out there, which absorb impact rather than just holding the head in place better and still allowing the full impact to reverberate through the helmet to the brain.

 

But the NFL And the NFLPA have been absurdly slow to pay attention to this technology shift... There is skepticism despite great lab results... but until someone takes a step and leap of faith and trys these helmets on a wider scale, no one will accept them.

 

Its a shame, there is something better out there but no one will move to use them.

[Bill from NYC]

23 hours ago, BillnutinHouston said:

 

Age 15 or 16, playing touch football in the street.  Ran a play as a receiver and hit my head on the pavement.  Went back to the huddle, then just wandered back to the backyard, where I proceeded to pick a carrot from the garden I had planted.  Needless to say, the game ended at that point.

Where did you grow up?  When I was 15 in Queens, the school actually sponsored a full contact flag football league on cement, with no pads, helmets, or protection of any kind. This in freezing cold winters. They let us warm up at halftime in the locker room.

 

I must admit that I loved it but looking back, it was crazy.

[gobills1212]

1 hour ago, Ittakestime said:

WGR talking how Morse might miss entire year.  Wondering if that is what is being talked about in Rochester around the campus.

I heard as well and thats not at all what the takeaway should have been.... but hey- that pot wont stir itself!!

Edited August 5, 2019 by gobills1212