Lawson's 5th yr option ($9.451M) declined & Ziggy update

[mikemac2001]

Not worried about this 

 

if he balls out you just franchise him - trade or sign 

 

if he stays the same you offer a deal you think is fair or let him walk 

 

 

[Phil The Thrill]

4 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

They both were horrible.  Whaley had two good picks in four drafts as GM in Darby and T. White.

 

He didn’t make the selection of White... McDermott did.... so that leaves Darby who is a probably a decent starter but not much better

33 minutes ago, vincec said:

Shaq and Murphy will both be gone after this season. DE needs help in the offseason or sooner. Let's just hope that nothing happens to Hughes.

 

You could be right....both essentially have 1 year to turn things around

[hemma]

Good time to extend Hughes for 2 years with a nice bump.

 

Show Lawson what happens when you excel.  May be the correct button.

[SCBills]

With how foreword thinking Beane is, I have to imagine they have a plan here.  

 

You dont bypass Winovich/Ferguson in the 3rd for a Running Back, then decline the option on Shaq, with Hughes and Murphy at the end of their deals next year without having a game plan.  

 

[ganesh]

is it also possible that they may sign a multi-year contract extension instead ?

[iinii]

5 hours ago, Process said:

WR and DE are going to be by far are biggest, and only major, needs going into 2020

Do you have some sort of crystal ball?

[MrEpsYtown]

Again I said this the other day, but this is the only position that has not had any overhaul, and only Trent Murphy fits the prototype of what these guys typically looked for in Carolina. Long limbed, tall, etc. Ansah fits that mold, as does Clowney. Ferguson fit that mold, Winovich did not....so I'm a bit surprised they did not grab Ferguson. But I think this is the final revamp for McDermott and Beane. They have overhauled every other position on the roster to fit what they want. Defensive end is next imo. 

[Misterbluesky]

6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Not overpaying for average players. How refreshing. 

Like 18.5 going.to Tyler Kroft?

[BigBuff423]

4 minutes ago, Misterbluesky said:

Like 18.5 going.to Tyler Kroft?

 

So you obviously didn’t look at the real numbers of the contract? Otherwise, hard for me to find the logic in your rebuttal.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

So you obviously didn’t look at the real numbers of the contract? Otherwise, hard for me to find the logic in your rebuttal.

 

And Tyler Kroft is a better player than he gets credit here for. But you are right. His contract is basically 1 year $6.3m ($4.9m against this year's cap) plus a small amount of bonus that would be dead money - about $1.5m.

 

Compare that to the contract Trey Burton signed last year in Chicago. His best year in Philly was statistically worse than Kroft's best in Cincy and indeed even when starting every game in Chicago last year he average 10 yards per game more than Kroft's season as a starter with the Bengals but had one touchdown fewer.

 

Burton signed 4 years; $32m with $22m guaranteed. His upside may be slightly higher than Kroft (though I don't buy the Burton hype) but only one of those contracts is overpaying. And it isnt the one the Bills gave out. 

[Nuncha]

 I can still see Rexie beaming about how great Lawson and Ragland were going to be...what a doofus.

[YoloinOhio]

29 minutes ago, Misterbluesky said:

Like 18.5 going.to Tyler Kroft?

 

Yikes look at the contract first. They guaranteed the same money (9.5) over 3 years to Kroft than they would be paying Shaq in 1 year. 

[stuvian]

he's failed to distinguish himself

[cba fan]

6 hours ago, DCbillsfan said:

If the Bills sign Ziggy, I could see them trying to trade Lawson or maybe hold onto him.  He's still on a cheap rookie contract.  I think it would mean that Yarbrough would be cut.  Plus letting Lawson walk as a free agent may yield a comp pick.

Bills just signed approx 18 or so Free Agents. They will never be in line for comp picks next year.

https://overthecap.com/compensatory-draft-picks-cancellation-chart/

26 minutes ago, Azucho98 said:

 I can still see Rexie beaming about how great Lawson and Ragland were going to be...what a doofus.

They would have been. But only in Rex's defense.

Edited May 2, 2019 by cba fan

[Reed83HOF]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

But they just drafted a guy who might be able to play RT with the 6th pick of the second round.

Probably will end up as G. Personally I either wanted us to get back into RD1 or make some moves to grab a lower number, but higher quality players such as:

 

RD1 - Oliver

RD1/RD2 - Fant/Tillery

RD2 - Irv Smith/N'Keal/McCoy/Risner/Rock-ya/Greedy

RD2/RD3 - Sanders/Sternberger

 

After Oliver, I wanted to prioritize TE or another DL due to our lack of DL under contract next year and I felt those were the highest value positions (I was substituting TE over WR with a target of #29ish to early 2) & rated players. If that wasn't avialble I was looking for McCoy who would allow us to easily dump Bodine and would start at G for us. Other than that it was a tossup if a top CB was there.

 

Knox was on my draft board, but only if we entirely missed out on Sternberger, which we didn't, we passed on him.The players at end of the class aren't going to upgrade much of anything and are just cheap fillers IMO. I didn't really care for the WRs in this draft TBH, but would have been fine if we took a flyer, I just see them as 2-3s which I feel we have plenty of. Vosean I have some hope for, but Johnson, Johnson & Sweeny - I don't expect us to develop Knox and expect very little from him.

 

I am assuming he had Jawaan Taylor with a failed medical, otherwise I would have assumed we would have tried to grab him.

 

Edit: I also get that last offseason, WRs were not going to sign with us, not knowing who or what our QB plan was. This year's draft was lacking in the offensive skill position we could have used. Possibly, as you have indicated DK would have helped this year with a RD2 choice to give Allen another option until we can attempt to address it better with an AJ Green (doubtful) or a RD1 WR. I really expect our offense to be a run heavy and stretch the field on the outside with Duke/Brown/Foster with Beasly and Zay working underneath.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Reed83HOF

[Richard Crickets]

6 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Oh..so now the Bills are worried about the compensatory pick formula coming into play after they just signed a bazillion FA's this offseason?  I think the writer has no clue...

Do you know why this is a bad take? I’ll help..

#Hughes #McCoy #Lawson

[Rocket94]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

With how foreword thinking Beane is, I have to imagine they have a plan here.  

 

You dont bypass Winovich/Ferguson in the 3rd for a Running Back, then decline the option on Shaq, with Hughes and Murphy at the end of their deals next year without having a game plan.  

 

My thoughts as well. Plenty of choices in the early rounds to address the DE position. They may have a particular player(s) in mind via trade or FA besides Ansah and Clowney.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Rocket94

[Protocal69]

7 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Lawson, Ragland, Washington, C. Jones, J. Williams

 

Doug Whaley sure nailed that draft.

He only did what Rex wanted him to do. Which one of those players fit the physical profile that Whaley is known to perfer

[MrEpsYtown]

Guys, If someone signs Shaq next off season it will effect the comp formula for that season. So signing a million free agents in 2019 would have nothing to do with someone else signing Shaq in 2020. The Bills aren't getting any comp picks in 2020 draft, becuase they signed a lot of free agents in 2019. They could get comp picks in the 2021 draft and Shaq signing elsewhere in the 2020 offseason would effect that. People gotta read up on how this stuff works before going all apeshit. 

[Tcali]

7 hours ago, Process said:

WR and DE are going to be by far are biggest, and only major, needs going into 2020

If Josh Allen significantly improves . If not we are gonna be lost in the 6-10 to 9-7 zone no matter how great our D is .

[Misterbluesky]

1 hour ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

So you obviously didn’t look at the real numbers of the contract? Otherwise, hard for me to find the logic in your rebuttal.

I sure did..even with a '20 buyout..he is guaranteed 9 million this year.

6.3,signing bonus 2 mill,750,000 making the roster.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

7 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Except Sammy had real value.  Shaq could get like a 5th at best.  

If only some other team had hired Wrecks... that 5th could be a third... 

Edited May 2, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

I would argue that an "average" NFL player is good, no?

 

I fell in this trap to.  There is an actual pff scale that goes average, above average, good, very good, and so on.  Something to this effect. 

 

Shaq is an average end. Probably starts or gets healthy reps on a number of teams.  Not worth the option.

 

For another example,  I don’t know dollars, but you probably don’t pick up a pricey option on Zay, unless he kills it this year?  You do pick up treD.  I don’t know if it’s even there for either. 

[LSHMEAB]

Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

I fell in this trap to.  There is an actual pff scale that goes average, above average, good, very good, and so on.  Something to this effect. 

 

Shaq is an average end. Probably starts or gets healthy reps on a number of teams.  Not worth the option.

 

For another example,  I don’t know dollars, but you probably don’t pick up a pricey option on Zay, unless he kills it this year?  You do pick up treD.  I don’t know if it’s even there for either. 

Average players like Shaq have a place in the league and can provide value; as BACKUPS. The issue here is that picking up Shaq's option would have been a massive overpay.

 

I'm pretty sure Zay wouldn't have an option and I'm not convinced he'll be on the roster in two years. My hope is that they extend Tre before that option becomes an issue. With his work ethic, health, and talent, I'd love to see them make a pre-emptive move and lock him in NOW. Pretty tired of drafting CB's in the first round only to see them walk.

[Happy]

2 hours ago, ganesh said:

is it also possible that they may sign a multi-year contract extension instead ?

 

This sounds most logical.  This year is very much a prove it year for Shaq.  It shouldn't be a surprise the Bills don't want to pay a guy who is making strides in the right direction $9.5M in 2020 after he makes $3.2M in 2019.  If Lawson continues to improve and make an impact this year, I can see Beane sign Shaq to a multi-year deal that makes sense, dollar-wise.

[MrEpsYtown]

I think you try to trade him to a team like the Cowboys or Redskins, two teams who showed a ton of interest in Shaq during the pre draft process. I want a draft pick, or perhaps a failed prospect of theirs. I'd do Shaq for Josh Doctson, who did not have his option picked up either. Plus you have Rob Ryan there to vouch for him. If I got Doctson I would turn around a trade Zay Jones to the Chargers for a ham sandwich so he can get a fresh start with his receiver coach. If the Redskins angle doesn't work I'd do Shaq for Taco Charlton, who the Cowboys feel is a bust at this point, but Taco is more the prototype in terms of size and length for McDermott's defense. 

 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

6 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

Hard to argue that Shaq is worth $9.4M right now. That would put him as the 3rd or 4th highest paid Bills player. Can anyone justify that? I can’t. 

 

I don’t think it’s out of the question that they potentially keep him around on a cheaper deal though. At worst he would be a good rotational/depth player.

 

 

And worst case, if he somehow takes a big step forward this year and the Bills can’t get a deal done, they can always tag him.... 

Trent Murphy will make $8.45 M if he makes the roster.  I can justify Shaq.  

[Virgil]

Yeah, that pick sucked and I remember getting trashed for not being a real fan at the time as I didn’t support it 

[Boatdrinks]

I like Andrew Brandt, and appreciate his usually solid takes. In this case, though I’m not sure it’s an indictment on the Bills own scouting. It’s fair to say it’s damning of their former GM and HC though. Lawson just hasn’tshown he’s consistent enough to be paid at that number. Smart move by the Bills FO here. 

[Big Turk]

2 hours ago, Richard Crickets said:

Do you know why this is a bad take? I’ll help..

#Hughes #McCoy #Lawson

You know why this is a bad take? I'll help...

 

see below that the Bills are already 10 UFA's signed in the hole when looking at potential 2020 compensatory picks. Learn how this works before posting about it.

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2019 by matter2003

[BillsFan1988]

11 hours ago, Process said:

WR and DE are going to be by far are biggest, and only major, needs going into 2020

It's not about needs it's about Stars. Every team has needs . Hopefully Allen becomes a star that will mask a bunch of needs likewise with Edmunds and Oliver on D. Super Bowls are won by stars no doubt about it.  Right now we don't have any but this yr hopefully some will develop.

1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said:

I like Andrew Brandt, and appreciate his usually solid takes. In this case, though I’m not sure it’s an indictment on the Bills own scouting. It’s fair to say it’s damning of their former GM and HC though. Lawson just hasn’tshown he’s consistent enough to be paid at that number. Smart move by the Bills FO here. 

The thing is he's going to be 24 this yr he's very young and has gotten better . If he gets 8 -10 sacks in 2019 his value will skyrocket . The tag is only guaranteed for injury so if he didn't perform  he would be released.  I hope McBeane is wrong on this one and Shaq busts out in a major way this yr. 

[BillsFan1988]

3 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Guys, If someone signs Shaq next off season it will effect the comp formula for that season. So signing a million free agents in 2019 would have nothing to do with someone else signing Shaq in 2020. The Bills aren't getting any comp picks in 2020 draft, becuase they signed a lot of free agents in 2019. They could get comp picks in the 2021 draft and Shaq signing elsewhere in the 2020 offseason would effect that. People gotta read up on how this stuff works before going all apeshit. 

Damn right I'm tired of people bringing up the comp pks. We should shut down all comp talk here until this team is great and doesn't have a ton of players on 1yr deals.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Average players like Shaq have a place in the league and can provide value; as BACKUPS. The issue here is that picking up Shaq's option would have been a massive overpay.

 

I'm pretty sure Zay wouldn't have an option and I'm not convinced he'll be on the roster in two years. My hope is that they extend Tre before that option becomes an issue. With his work ethic, health, and talent, I'd love to see them make a pre-emptive move and lock him in NOW. Pretty tired of drafting CB's in the first round only to see them walk.

 

Pretty tired..... of this thing that has happened.... what.....  once in the last 15 years? 

 

You must be ready to jump off a bridge over first rd d-lineman that don’t pan out.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[DCbillsfan]

6 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Guys, If someone signs Shaq next off season it will effect the comp formula for that season. So signing a million free agents in 2019 would have nothing to do with someone else signing Shaq in 2020. The Bills aren't getting any comp picks in 2020 draft, becuase they signed a lot of free agents in 2019. They could get comp picks in the 2021 draft and Shaq signing elsewhere in the 2020 offseason would effect that. People gotta read up on how this stuff works before going all apeshit. 

Amen.  Thank you

[Niagara Dude]

15 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Lawson, Ragland, Washington, C. Jones, J. Williams

 

Doug Whaley sure nailed that draft.

This draft was just as bad,  just give it time

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

8 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Guys, If someone signs Shaq next off season it will effect the comp formula for that season. So signing a million free agents in 2019 would have nothing to do with someone else signing Shaq in 2020. The Bills aren't getting any comp picks in 2020 draft, becuase they signed a lot of free agents in 2019. They could get comp picks in the 2021 draft and Shaq signing elsewhere in the 2020 offseason would effect that. People gotta read up on how this stuff works before going all apeshit. 

 

You’re technically right. But don’t the Bills have close to the most cap space next offseason? I’m not saying I wanted them to pick up the option (Id rather they try to extend him at a much cheaper price) but there’s really not much chance we get comp picks for next offseason’s moves either considering the amount of cap space that will be available. 

[BarleyNY]

27 minutes ago, Chemical said:

 

You’re technically right. But don’t the Bills have close to the most cap space next offseason? I’m not saying I wanted them to pick up the option (Id rather they try to extend him at a much cheaper price) but there’s really not much chance we get comp picks for next offseason’s moves either considering the amount of cap space that will be available. 

 

That depends.  The Bills will probably be looking for quality over quantity for the most part next offseason.  Lawson will cancel out one of the better FA pick ups.  But if more qualifying FAs are signed away from us than we sign then we will get something the following year. 

 

I’ve posted this before.  It’s a great tool to see what our roster will look like moving forward. Just scroll down to “Roster Cap Figures”:

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/yearly/cap/

[Kirby Jackson]

11 hours ago, Rocket94 said:

It can't be soon enough. Charade is over.

You are acting like those guys are Peterman!! Both guys are quality NFL players. They are borderline starters. They aren’t scrubs.

11 hours ago, SCBills said:

With how foreword thinking Beane is, I have to imagine they have a plan here.  

 

You dont bypass Winovich/Ferguson in the 3rd for a Running Back, then decline the option on Shaq, with Hughes and Murphy at the end of their deals next year without having a game plan.  

 

You do when said RB was ranked nearly 30 spots ahead of the next available player on your board which is what I heard yesterday. The Bills has a way higher grade on Singletary than anyone left at that pick and stuck to their board (as they said that they would).

[ROCBillsBeliever]

10 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Again I said this the other day, but this is the only position that has not had any overhaul, and only Trent Murphy fits the prototype of what these guys typically looked for in Carolina. Long limbed, tall, etc. Ansah fits that mold, as does Clowney. Ferguson fit that mold, Winovich did not....so I'm a bit surprised they did not grab Ferguson. But I think this is the final revamp for McDermott and Beane. They have overhauled every other position on the roster to fit what they want. Defensive end is next imo. 

 

Agreed. The Bills added more free agents than any team in the NFL because they knew they had a ton of holes. There are two solid potential DE's still on the market in Ansah and Clowney (and enough money to get the job done), and in the case of Ansah, we are awaiting a medical update on his shoulder,

 

and yet...

 

"We are #doomed!"

 

"McBeane is ignoring DE!"

 

"We don't have a plan! We are rudderless!"

(Except, the slow-tards who believe these things wouldn't have the term 'rudderless' in their lexicon; nor would they know what a lexicon was if one slapped them in the face!).

 

Come on, people! 

 

1) McBeane has a plan! They always do. It doesn't always work, granted, but if you honestly believe they do not have a plan, go watch the Patsies...

 

2) Without an update yet on Ansah's shoulder, that plan is likely on hold.

 

3) McBeane has said, ad nauseam (yet another phrase the idiots who doubt McBeane have a plan probably cannot comprehend) that NOTHING IS GIVEN... not extending Shaq is a direct challenge to him: improve and you will earn a contract; rest on your laurels, and we will move on.

 

Wake the EFF up, Haters! This isn't the last 20 years of regimes... these guys have a freaking plan!

 

(P.S. I didn't get my coffee this morning, so I'm cranky... sorry.)

[GunnerBill]

10 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Yikes look at the contract first. They guaranteed the same money (9.5) over 3 years to Kroft than they would be paying Shaq in 1 year. 

 

It's actually only $6.3 guaranteed at time of signing Yolo. The res of the guarantees trigger on the 5th day of the league year 2020.