Lawson's 5th yr option ($9.451M) declined & Ziggy update

[MrEpsYtown]

53 minutes ago, Chemical said:

 

You’re technically right. But don’t the Bills have close to the most cap space next offseason? I’m not saying I wanted them to pick up the option (Id rather they try to extend him at a much cheaper price) but there’s really not much chance we get comp picks for next offseason’s moves either considering the amount of cap space that will be available. 

 

I'm just saying, some people seem to think that signing free agents in 2019 somehow affects possibly getting a comp pick for the loss of and Shaq Lawson and Jerry Hughes. They don't seem to realize that 2019 is 2019 and 2020 is 2020.  

[BigBuff423]

8 hours ago, Misterbluesky said:

I sure did..even with a '20 buyout..he is guaranteed 9 million this year.

6.3,signing bonus 2 mill,750,000 making the roster.

 

Yet, you quoted an $18 million dollar contract, when it only ties the Bills the one year for half that when they had so much Cap Space they signed 17 FAs and STILL have roughly $30 million left....so, that leads me back to you the point being I don't see the logic in thinking the Bills overpaid for a TE when they needed to do three things: 1. add receiving talent for Josh Allen, 2. spend money to get their Cap floor up, 3. replace TEs since Clay was cut (the right thing to do, which seems obvious to me)…..

 

How is this NOT a good decision the way the contract is structured? He's had injury issues, but virtually every player has had injury issues in one respect or another. And, it gives the Bills options with a one year contract or the full three depending on how he plays. That would seem prudent, IMHO.

[MrEpsYtown]

 

I also think it really depends on a lot of factors, but I could see them going after Michael Thomas, maybe an edge guy like Clowney, and Shaq Thompson will be out there as a possible Lorax replacement at SAM. 

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

1 minute ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I'm just saying, some people seem to think that signing free agents in 2019 somehow affects possibly getting a comp pick for the loss of and Shaq Lawson and Jerry Hughes. They don't seem to realize that 2019 is 2019 and 2020 is 2020.  

 

I agree that's weird to think that, but aren't they responding to people who are claiming we will get comp picks next offseason? I'm saying they're both wrong.

[Dopey]

16 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

Do you really think he will want to be back in Buffalo after being told “no thanks.”

Depends on the $ offered.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I'm just saying, some people seem to think that signing free agents in 2019 somehow affects possibly getting a comp pick for the loss of and Shaq Lawson and Jerry Hughes. They don't seem to realize that 2019 is 2019 and 2020 is 2020.  

 

You and your complicated facts.....!

1 hour ago, Chemical said:

 

You’re technically right. But don’t the Bills have close to the most cap space next offseason? I’m not saying I wanted them to pick up the option (Id rather they try to extend him at a much cheaper price) but there’s really not much chance we get comp picks for next offseason’s moves either considering the amount of cap space that will be available. 

 

That might be true but equally they could use that space to start signing their own: Tre, Milano and Dawkins are all eligible. Depends I think where they feel the holes still are on the roster at the end of 2019.

[MrEpsYtown]

1 minute ago, Chemical said:

 

I agree that's weird to think that, but aren't they responding to people who are claiming we will get comp picks next offseason? I'm saying they're both wrong.

 

I think people are all confused on how the comp system works. So I'm just saying that people need to know what they are talking about before being rude. It's okay to be rude if you are right. If you are wrong you just look like a loser. ?

[Ima Fan]

1 hour ago, Niagara Dude said:

This draft was just as bad,  just give it time

Could you also give us the lottery numbers for the next three years?

Asking for a friend...

[nucci]

18 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Depends on the $ offered.

I don't think there will be any money offered

12 minutes ago, Ima Fan said:

Could you also give us the lottery numbers for the next three years?

Asking for a friend...

can't your friend ask?

[GunnerBill]

9 hours ago, Misterbluesky said:

I sure did..even with a '20 buyout..he is guaranteed 9 million this year.

6.3,signing bonus 2 mill,750,000 making the roster.

 

Nope. The guarantees work like this:

 

1. $6.3m on signing. This is made up of $2.4m signing bonus spread for cap purposes across the three years $800k per year; his $1.8m 2019 base salary and $2.1m roster bonus which has already been paid.

2. $2m of his 2020 base salary which guarantees in only two scenarios: i) the Bills waiving him due to injury; ii) him being on the roster on the 5th day of the league year 2020.

3. $750k of his 2020 roster bonus which guarantees only if he is on the roster on the 5th day of the league year 2020.

 

That means that if the Bills want to get out of the contract after one year then unless Kroft is being waived injured the ONLY money that will have been paid to Tyler Kroft will be the $6.3m he was paid when he signed and $1.6m of that will still sit on the books as dead cap which is the 2020 and 2021 portions of that original signing bonus.

 

[TigerJ]

17 hours ago, Process said:

WR and DE are going to be by far are biggest, and only major, needs going into 2020

Sam linebacker.  If Lorax doesn't retire, at least the handwriting is on the wall.  Vosean Joseph is a better fit at Wil.  I also wouldn't be surprised if both Shady and Frank Gore are gone after the season.  RB could be thin.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

14 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

Is Ragland starting? They're shifting to a 4-3 and their other ILB sound like be a better fit at MLB.

 

He'll play some - He was under 50% of defensive snaps as the starter so... who knows how much he plays in a 4-3.

[GunnerBill]

22 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

Sam linebacker.  If Lorax doesn't retire, at least the handwriting is on the wall.  Vosean Joseph is a better fit at Wil.  I also wouldn't be surprised if both Shady and Frank Gore are gone after the season.  RB could be thin.

 

See I think Vosean can play SAM. I really do. I know he has only played will and mike to this point but I see the skillset there to be a sam.

[US Egg]

Lawson's a bust as a 1st round pick and be considered a disappointment as a 2nd or 3rd rounder too.

Edited May 2, 2019 by I am the egg man

[BarleyNY]

54 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Depends on the $ offered.

 

I researched this. Since 5th year options we instituted only one player who did not have his option picked up or have his contract extended by the option expiration date, only Mark Ingram remained with the team that drafted him.  Technically he could be re-signed here, but realistically he’s gone after this season. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

4 minutes ago, I am the egg man said:

Lawson was a bust as a 1st round pick and would of been if he were a 2nd or 3rd too.

 

Well this is hyperbole at its worst. What exactly do you expect from your 3rd round DE? 

[BarleyNY]

5 minutes ago, I am the egg man said:

Lawson was a bust as a 1st round pick and would of been if he were a 2nd or 3rd too.

 

I really disagree with this.  If Lawson was a 3rd round pick he’d have a nice spot in a DE rotation as a DE3.  That’d be very reasonable for someone picked there. 

Edited May 2, 2019 by BarleyNY

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

You are acting like those guys are Peterman!! Both guys are quality NFL players. They are borderline starters. They aren’t scrubs.

You do when said RB was ranked nearly 30 spots ahead of the next available player on your board which is what I heard yesterday. The Bills has a way higher grade on Singletary than anyone left at that pick and stuck to their board (as they said that they would).

 

I'm torn on whether I believe this or not.

 

I do believe they had Singletary rated higher, and a lot of people outside of us grumbling fans rave about the kid.

 

That being said, DE is such a tougher spot to fill, and we "could" be headed into next season with none.....NONE.  I'm sure that won't happen obviously, but Hughes, Murphy and Shaq are all in the last years of their deals.  I just have to believe Beane and co. have a plan... ie, extending Hughes, a trade, expected cuts etc..

 

I also don't believe that the staff (correctly) viewed Ferguson/Winovich as anything more than rotational DE's, so I can see the temptation to grab a potential offensive weapon over a guy that we rotate in with the second wave of our DL.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 minute ago, BarleyNY said:

 

I really disagree with this.  If Lawson was a 3rd round pick he’d have a nice spot in a DE rotation as a DE3.  That’d be very reasonable for someone picked there. 

 

Its also all relative.  Lawson ended up having a pretty average first round rookie contract compared to that draft class.  In other draft classes he would look worse, but in his, he is average. 

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

I'm torn on whether I believe this or not.

 

I do believe they had Singletary rated higher, and a lot of people outside of us grumbling fans rave about the kid.

 

That being said, DE is such a tougher spot to fill, and we "could" be headed into next season with none.....NONE.  I'm sure that won't happen obviously, but Hughes, Murphy and Shaq are all in the last years of their deals.  I just have to believe Beane and co. have a plan... ie, extending Hughes, a trade, expected cuts etc..

 

I also don't believe that the staff (correctly) viewed Ferguson/Winovich as anything more than rotational DE's, so I can see the temptation to grab a potential offensive weapon over a guy that we rotate in with the second wave of our DL.

You can choose to believe me or not but my information is rock solid on this. I never post what I’ve heard unless I know it to be true (or at least certain as to what they are trying to do). This is from in the room.

[eball]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

You do when said RB was ranked nearly 30 spots ahead of the next available player on your board which is what I heard yesterday. The Bills has a way higher grade on Singletary than anyone left at that pick and stuck to their board (as they said that they would).

 

Probably the wrong thread but Peter Schrager on GMFB just raved about Singletary and predicted he would be the AFC's offensive rookie of the week in W1. 

[SCBills]

21 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

You can choose to believe me or not but my information is rock solid on this. I never post what I’ve heard unless I know it to be true (or at least certain as to what they are trying to do). This is from in the room.

 

I wasn't questioning your info... I was questioning the methodology behind taking a higher rated RB (easier position to fill) over a lower rated DE (premium position/tougher to fill).   ….Unless they have a plan in the works, in which case it makes total sense to do that.

[Stank_Nasty]

33 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Probably the wrong thread but Peter Schrager on GMFB just raved about Singletary and predicted he would be the AFC's offensive rookie of the week in W1. 

he's basically been raved about by everyone other than the fans on this page..... pre and post draft.

[Kirby Jackson]

45 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

I wasn't questioning your info... I was questioning the methodology behind taking a higher rated RB (easier position to fill) over a lower rated DE (premium position/tougher to fill).   ….Unless they have a plan in the works, in which case it makes total sense to do that.

Because they said, and actually do, believe in BPA. They aren’t necessarily looking at positions they are looking at players. 

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Its also all relative.  Lawson ended up having a pretty average first round rookie contract compared to that draft class.  In other draft classes he would look worse, but in his, he is average. 

 

That is a fair statement.  There were only 2 or 3 players of the 12 drafted in the remainder of the 2016 first round that were worthy of that status.  A big problem with Shaq is that he was a much better fit for Rex’s outdated scheme than he has been for McD’s.  He has been passable as a stopgap, but they aren’t going to pay him to keep him around once he’s off of his rookie deal. 

[Nuncha]

12 hours ago, cba fan said:

Bills just signed approx 18 or so Free Agents. They will never be in line for comp picks next year.

https://overthecap.com/compensatory-draft-picks-cancellation-chart/

They would have been. But only in Rex's defense.

How can any player be great in a Rex Ryan defense when it would certainly be in the bottom tier of the NFL? His only success in Buffalo was ruining a top 10 defense.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Azucho98

[WideNine]

1 hour ago, Stank_Nasty said:

he's basically been raved about by everyone other than the fans on this page..... pre and post draft.

 

Not sure if that is completely fair.

 

I think a many of us were just surprised that the Bills went RB at the top of the 3rd when they brought in the RB free agents they did and had as many on the roster that they had. As it stands they likely will have to make some roster moves.

 

I was thinking maybe a RB in the 4th or later rounds that they could stash on the PS, but nothing more.

 

Also hard to nail down a type when it comes to their draft board. Which also has less to do with the kid's talent and more to do with trying to get a handle on how this FO evaluates prospects.

• Singletary, unimpressive combine and measurables, roll the tape and you see amazing production and he ends up high on Beane's board.
• Knox, great measurables and combine showing, roll the tape and little to no production yet high enough on Beane's board to trade up into the 3rd to get him.

What it shows you is that other than work ethic and character, there is not an easily predictable "type". The Bills really do a deep dive on these guys to project how successful they can be in the program the Bills want to run. It is not a narrow evaluation process of limited variables.

 

 

 

[Rocket94]

3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

You are acting like those guys are Peterman!! Both guys are quality NFL players. They are borderline starters. They aren’t scrubs.

You do when said RB was ranked nearly 30 spots ahead of the next available player on your board which is what I heard yesterday. The Bills has a way higher grade on Singletary than anyone left at that pick and stuck to their board (as they said that they would).

No they are not "scrubs", But they are not performing at the level that is needed. The Bills need bonafide starters that produce on a weekly basis and have impact...not just borderline. I like the pick of Singletary and the Bills were probably sticking to the board and projecting him as a future starter. Why else would Beane be reaching out to the likes of Frank Clark, Clowney and Ansah? 

[Rocket94]

20 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

That's a fair point.  I totally agree he is NOT worth $10 mill/yr.

Lawson may play more than "borderline" this year on a prove it type contract...if he does, there are always teams out there that will sign him. Then we are compensated.

[BmarvB]

It's put up or shut up time for him especially with him being a Rex Ryan holdover.

[LSHMEAB]

11 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Pretty tired..... of this thing that has happened.... what.....  once in the last 15 years? 

 

Say what????? Since I've been a "grown" fan, I've seen Thomas Smith, Jeff Burris, Antoine Winfield, Nate Clements, and Stephon Gilmore walk as FA's. That obviously goes back further than 15 years, but it's kind of a big deal.

 

And yeah, Shaq is a bust considering his draft slot. Maybin would have been a bust in the fourth round. Not a fan of that either. It's been 20 years since we were relevant. I can walk and chew gum at the same time here.

Edited May 2, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[aristocrat]

What’s the Ziggy update?

[eball]

This is a good call, declining the option on Shaq.  If presented to him in the right way it should not negatively impact the Bills' ability to re-sign him if he has a good season, but in all likelihood he's not going to have the kind of season that would make you think he should be paid 9M+ in 2020.

[Rocket94]

2 minutes ago, eball said:

This is a good call, declining the option on Shaq.  If presented to him in the right way it should not negatively impact the Bills' ability to re-sign him if he has a good season, but in all likelihood he's not going to have the kind of season that would make you think he should be paid 9M+ in 2020.

Lawson may do better with Oliver on board...heck, everyone should, but Lawson should have demonstrated something by now besides being just good enough or adequate, or borderline...any way we want to phrase it. We already know what kind of production that we need from the DE spot. It is not happening. 

[billsfan89]

3 minutes ago, Rocket94 said:

Lawson may do better with Oliver on board...heck, everyone should, but Lawson should have demonstrated something by now besides being just good enough or adequate, or borderline...any way we want to phrase it. We already know what kind of production that we need from the DE spot. It is not happening. 

 

If Shaq has a breakout 2019 The Bills can franchise him or transition tag him. But I think it is hard to commit nearly 10 million to an underperforming DE. By the end of 2019 the Bills will know what Shaq is and will be able to properly assess what his value is. I think that if you commit to a large 5th year option you lose your flexibility and while it is a bit of a risk if he has a strong season I think it is better to worry about having to keep a good player who will be a free agent then to have to worry about being locked into a underperforming player. 

[BADOLBILZ]

42 minutes ago, eball said:

This is a good call, declining the option on Shaq.  If presented to him in the right way it should not negatively impact the Bills' ability to re-sign him if he has a good season, but in all likelihood he's not going to have the kind of season that would make you think he should be paid 9M+ in 2020.

 

 

Yeah waiting until the last minute sorta' implies that they value him and think it was a borderline decision.......even if it wasn't.     A quick dismissal sends a less positive message.   I think they handled it the best way if hoping to get the most out of Shaq.

[BullBuchanan]

If they want to sign Shaq to a 3yr, 15M deal I'm all for it. He a good run defender and decent backup against the pass, but you can't pay him Jerry Hughes money.

[ColoradoBills]

7 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

I researched this. Since 5th year options we instituted only one player who did not have his option picked up or have his contract extended by the option expiration date, only Mark Ingram remained with the team that drafted him.  Technically he could be re-signed here, but realistically he’s gone after this season. 

 

That's pretty amazing.  I figured it was low but not that low.

[Rocket94]

1 hour ago, billsfan89 said:

 

If Shaq has a breakout 2019 The Bills can franchise him or transition tag him. But I think it is hard to commit nearly 10 million to an underperforming DE. By the end of 2019 the Bills will know what Shaq is and will be able to properly assess what his value is. I think that if you commit to a large 5th year option you lose your flexibility and while it is a bit of a risk if he has a strong season I think it is better to worry about having to keep a good player who will be a free agent then to have to worry about being locked into a underperforming player. 

Absolutely!

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

51 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

If they want to sign Shaq to a 3yr, 15M deal I'm all for it. He a good run defender and decent backup against the pass, but you can't pay him Jerry Hughes money.

 

...sounds fair...no way is he going to see >$10+ mil/yr in FA......