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Gerald McCoy: Cap casualty


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9 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

They do similar things on the field imo. McCoy will draw doubles at about the same rate Lotulelei does.They're both good against the run. He doesn't get upfield all that well, and I'm not sure how often he's asked to do that. I'd say Lotulelei has a quicker first step but McCoy is stronger...imo Lotulelei is more technically capable and McCoy will tend to rely on overwhelming his guy with his strength. Sure he gets more sacks, but they're definitely not opposites in how they're utilized. 

 

 

 

 

McCoy's ability to get off the ball might be his biggest strength. McCoy is the pass-rushing specialist who happens to also be decent against the run but they play completely different roles. Star is only on the field to try to free up space for others to make plays. McCoy is the one that Tampa relies on to make the plays.

 

Edit: This article was literally from just before this season in which they proclaimed that McCoy has the quickest first step among defensive linemen in the NFL lol. I don't know how you could possibly think that Star has a quicker first step. Are you thinking of a different Bucs player? I'm genuinely confused.

 

https://www.tampabay.com/blogs/bucs/2018/08/31/bucs-gerald-mccoy-youre-going-to-miss-me-when-im-gone/

Edited by DCOrange
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Sounds great in theory, but you’ve got to know by now that McDermott rotates his defensive linemen. 

 

We don’t like that Star is getting paid ~$10M a year to play about 50% of the snaps, but we want to bring in McCoy for the same price to play roughly the same amount of snaps? 

 

I don’t see McBeane putting $20M+ a year into two players at a position that we rotate about 4 players through. That’s bad cap management and if Beane has shown anything, I think he’s shown his ability to manage cap. 

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I'd say yes if we weren't already on the hooks with Star Lotulelei & Trent Murphy. Those are 2 examples of pricing yourself out of an impact player by overpaying under achievers.

And yes I get the whole argument of Star occupies 2 blockers & yadayadayada. But how can you have a dline where it eats up 17% of your cap & where 1 of those guys will hardly be on the field due to historically being injured?

I'd love to have him here & would instantly replace Star with McCoy, but with the total cost & with all the other areas we need to improve, I think we simply need to build thru the draft in this case.

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52 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Gerald McCoy had his best seasons playing the 3 tech in Leslie Frazier's 4-3 defense. Just saying. 

According to PFR, his best season was 2013 under Bill Sheridan (Schiano was coach). It was the only time he made all-pro and he had his highest AV that season. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McCoGe99.htm

 

I am in no way blaming McCoy for the entire Tampa D performance, but it is the case that his been really terrible during his career there: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/tam/.

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2 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

 

McCoy's ability to get off the ball might be his biggest strength. McCoy is the pass-rushing specialist who happens to also be decent against the run but they play completely different roles. Star is only on the field to try to free up space for others to make plays. McCoy is the one that Tampa relies on to make the plays.

Well maybe I didn't watch enough Tampa Bay, but I didn't see much out of McCoy when I did come across one of their games. That rookie Vea looked like the interior talent to me, McCoy wasn't anything special...maybe he was carrying an injury or something. I saw them play the Giants I think and he looked ordinary. Not all that quick, still obviously powerful but not really a playmaker. I stand by my Lotulelei comparison, other than McCoy being on the field for more passing downs re: sacks I think they're basically the same player.

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1 hour ago, SWATeam said:

And we've got it to spend.  Seems like a good fit.

 

But I'm not sure it is a wise investment. If we are going to spend big bucks on a defensive player I would rather it be an OLB, or perhaps an edge rusher.

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21 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

But I'm not sure it is a wise investment. If we are going to spend big bucks on a defensive player I would rather it be an OLB, or perhaps an edge rusher.

 

I’m all for this, but the question is who is the free agent edge rusher that they get to come here?

 

I wouldn’t be too against the idea of trading for McCoy’s contract - as has been stated you can cut him at any time for no guaranteed money...

 

Star can be moved on for minimal money at the end of 2020 so that won’t impact on them resigning Tre and Milano...

 

 

 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

I’m all for this, but the question is who is the free agent edge rusher that they get to come here?

 

I wouldn’t be too against the idea of trading for McCoy’s contract - as has been stated you can cut him at any time for no guaranteed money...

 

Star can be moved on for minimal money at the end of 2020 so that won’t impact on them resigning Tre and Milano...

 

Ezekiel Ansah perhaps at edge rusher. I would love to have Anthony Barr at LB.

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2 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

Ezekiel Ansah perhaps at edge rusher. I would love to have Anthony Barr at LB.

 

Agree Ansah could be a possibility...

 

I don't think Barr would be value for money... The Bills play a lot of nickel with Taron Johnson on the field and only go with 2 LB's..

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5 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

Agree Ansah could be a possibility...

 

I don't think Barr would be value for money... The Bills play a lot of nickel with Taron Johnson on the field and only go with 2 LB's..

 

Yeah, but not all the time. Plus if you have a guy like Barr you can stay in base defense more often if you want. Plus, I think he can rush the passer (I think), so maybe you have him as a pass rusher on 3rd down sometimes. I feel like LB hurt us this year, especially after injuries.

Edited by MJS
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Just now, MJS said:

 

Yeah, but not all the time. Plus if you have a guy like Barr you can stay in base defense more often if you want. Plus, I think he can rush the passer (maybe?), so maybe you have him as a pass rusher on 3rd down sometimes. I feel like LB hurt us this year, especially after injuries.

 

Barr will get overpaid. I hope it is not by us.

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5 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

They need a young pass rushing OLB in the first round not a DT. 

I think a veteran DT would be wise but not top priority. They need to spend their FA dollars on ay least two high end starters on the Oline. Add in the glaring need at TE and DT falls even further down the need list.

 

Yeah.. its down the list but not off it..

 

They need a replacement for Kyle..

 

I wouldn't be against them getting a DT in Free Agency and using Pick 9 on an Edge Rusher...

 

Options here seem limited though..  Assuming Bosa, Ferrell and Josh Allen are gone who is next man up??

 

Polite probably..

Edited by Aussie Joe
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50 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

They need a young pass rushing OLB in the first round not a DT. 

I think a veteran DT would be wise but not top priority. They need to spend their FA dollars on ay least two high end starters on the Oline. Add in the glaring need at TE and DT falls even further down the need list.


A pass rushing OLB? What?

If you mean an edge rusher, I agree that it would be a smart use of 1st round draft capital. A Sam linebacker, though? Not so much. It's the least important of the three positions in McDermott's defense, and is the first linebacker to come off the field when the defense goes to a nickel look. Not worth a 1st.

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1 hour ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

Yeah.. its down the list but not off it..

 

They need a replacement for Kyle..

 

I wouldn't be against them getting a DT in Free Agency and using Pick 9 on an Edge Rusher...

 

Options here seem limited though..  Assuming Bosa, Ferrell and Josh Allen are gone who is next man up??

 

Polite probably..

Don't sleep Austin Bryant later in the draft. Guy has a nice get off and that pass rushing bend to his game.

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6 hours ago, I'm Spartacus said:

 

The Carolina connection has been a little odd, if not slightly humorous.

Lighten up a little....

Right.... making second handle to make it sound less dumb doesnt actually make it sound less dumb imo.

That said if this isnt the same person - that might actly be worse...

Edited by gobills1212
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8 hours ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

The Bucs are moving toward a 3-4 D and McCoy is reportedly a cap casualty. The Bucs can save 13M from cutting him with no dead money. A possible veteran pick up to fill in for Kyle Williams?

Would be awesome but they would have to overpay to get him and that doesn’t sound like the “judicious” kind of FA that Beane was talking about. I’m thinking that they are basically going to sign role players and try to get the stars through the draft.

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19 hours ago, 1ZAYDAY1 said:

I'm all for it.

 

Grab LB Devin White in the Draft.  That would allow Edmunds to move around, White can move around. Sign Shaq to 5th year.

 

...................................Shaq/Murphy........... McCoy/ J Phillips........... H Phillips/Star........... Hughes/Zo 

..................D White/Zo..... ..........................................Edmunds/White..........................................Milano/Edmunds

Wallace...............................................................................................................................................................................T White

.................................................Poyer.............................................................Hyde

 

Defense would be set!!!!

Id like to see Edmunds as an OLB and at times on the line. 

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1 hour ago, billsfan_34 said:

Id like to see Edmunds as an OLB and at times on the line. 

Agree.  I think they were right though to have him strictly play Mike as a 20 year old rookie. Let him learn and try to master the position before moving him around.  I haven't seen much of it but him as an edge Blitzer may be as good as his pass defense. He is so good in coverage you dont want to take alot away from that, but depending on down and distance have him rushing the passer makes alot of sense.  

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i don't see them spending on mc coy.  they may not even look to sign a dt other than j. phillipps.  i believe they will draft a dt in the 1st. depending on how the draft is shaking out, they can get a great one at 9 or even trade down a few spots. i can't believe the amount of dline talent there is this year.

 

obviously, i want josh allen at 9, but most mocks i've seen have us taking ed oliver.  mc coy's going to get too much money for my liking. if malik jackson gets cut then maybe a one year prove it deal would work but....

 

if i were running the dline i'd kick shaq inside ( in rotation with oliver unless oliver...or whoever they draft can play full time )and rotate murphy and lorax on the end. i hope they bring back yarbrough and i think mike love may turn out to be very good.

 

i'd like to see free agent money spent.  a center and rt for sure. if they can get a glowinski as well, good. i still believe in john miller could be a good to very good guard with someone competent next to him....in the power scheme.  i think they are gonna crush this draft. they have improved each year and this year is gonna be no exception.

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2 hours ago, Mat68 said:

Agree.  I think they were right though to have him strictly play Mike as a 20 year old rookie. Let him learn and try to master the position before moving him around.  I haven't seen much of it but him as an edge Blitzer may be as good as his pass defense. He is so good in coverage you dont want to take alot away from that, but depending on down and distance have him rushing the passer makes alot of sense.  

Exactly- he has unique skills and freakish athletic ability that hopefully they can move hin around depending on the situation that presents himself.

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7 hours ago, LittleJoeCartwright said:

 

You mean like the Peter Pan photos? I probably shouldn’t have brought it up though.

Peter Pan photos have a purpose in that its kind if a funny game to see who you can get to click. 

 

The carolina thing different in that its just played out

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