Josh Allen---has your opinion changed on him since draft night?

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

I woke up on draft day, and read the stories about his tweets. I somehow knew right then and there he was gonna be our QB. That said, even before I knew for sure, I was able to quickly dismiss them as tasteless jokes made by a teenage kid. Didn't think he was actually racist, just attempting to be funny and edgy. 

 

That said, I was on board with drafting him for his raw talent, but was adamantly opposed to him starting until at least midway into the 2019 season. He had too much fine tuning and, in my opinion, needed to sit behind a veteran. 

 

The Peterman/McCarron fiasco happened, and I think were were all a bit flustered at that. I didn't like the idea of Allen being thrown to the wolves, but have been pleasantly surprised. 

 

His issues have largely been due to fixable problems, and protection/personnel problems that will hopefully be fixed this offseason. 

[LABILLBACKER]

I hated the pick. Hoped we would trade up for Darnold and when the Jets out positioned us I thought we had a shot at Rosen. The knock on JA was never his arm strength but poor accuracy and weak opponents. I had no idea this kid would show immediate leadership and athletic qualities we haven't seen in a very long time. Yes he threw some bad passes his rookie season but there were tons of drops and pass protection issues.  I don't think there's a better quarterback more suited for this city, this community, and the Bills style of play then Josh Allen. He's the kind of quarterback you can build around. Surround him with better WR's,  TE's and an improved OL and he will flourish here. I'm now glad we didn't take Rosen and I see Allen, Darnold and Mahomes being the top qbs for years to come in the AFC....

[TBBills Fan]

Yes...I was sold on Rosen based on everything I read....however I dont watch college ball so it wasnt my eyes that made that choice.....

 

Then draft night I saw Rosen on TV and  thought damn that kid looks little and started to wonder if we were screwed.....because I thought it would be Rosen. Was worried about Allen because of I kept hearing raw, needs time etc...and I know how that worked for us before....EJ, JP..

 

Since then Allen has shown and done all the right things and Ive seen him make plays and Im super excited to see how he develops this offseason and what we see next year

 

Long term....he can be GREAT.....

 

 

Edited January 2, 2019 by TBBills Fan

[JoeF]

Starts:

Chargers L 31-20

Vikings W 27-6

Packers L 22-0

Titans W 13-12

Texans - L - 20-13* Winning when injured

Jaguars W-24-21

Dolphins L 24-21

Jets L - 27-23

Lions W-14-13

Pats L - 24-12

Dolphins W- 42-17

 

Dropping the Texans game that's 5-5 in starts that Josh finished.  This is pretty impressive given the offense's supporting cast and the deficit special teams often gave us this year with little return game and weak coverage.  After the bye week, I saw a great athlete develop into a pro QB. It was a gradual development, but it was there. A five yard back shoulder throw to Robert  Foster is the play that I point to that is evidence of that development.  That was a placement throw for an athlete who relies on a canon.  It was thrown hard and accurate.

 

I wanted us to draft the best QB available.  My personal ranking was Darnold, Mayfield, Rosen and Allen.  When it came to Rosen and Allen, I wanted Rosen, but I am convinced now that Allen was the correct pick given the two choices the Bills had.  I think the Bills had Allen #1 for their situation despite the rumors to the contrary.

 

I think the Bills will have plenty of skill position UFAs who will want to come play with this kid.  That will be another indication that the Bills made the right choice.

 

 

 

[ProcessAccepted]

I have to admit it that my opinion has changed. I honestly had a lot of doubts about his maturity and frankly was concerned that he'd struggle with adversity. Boy was I wrong!!!

[WhoTom]

Hold your beer and watch this:

 

[Tenhigh]

36 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I suggest yelling COME AT ME BRO! That always works.

 

I'm in this boat, too, though I recovered from the initial shock quickly

 

It took me a little longer, and when he couldn't get above 3rd on the depth chart through training camp, I was even more skeptical.  Now I am an official poultrytarian:

 

[Rocky Landing]

My thought going into the draft was that Darnold, or Mayfield would be the only two QBs worth trading up for, and if they were unattainable (which, of course, they were), then we should not have traded up and gone for Lamar Jackson. I would have been happy with Allen at that spot, also, but didn't think he would be there, and was wary of his perceived downsides.

 

And I very much didn't want Rosen. Attitude plays big with me, and I don't like his.

 

Looking at it now, I'm a huge Allen fan, period. I'd be a fan of whomever we got. But, as a football fan, I really like being able to root for guys I respect as human beings, and Allen is a guy I can get behind. Great attitude, great leadership. I also like QBs who can be exciting to watch, and man, Allen fits that bill. These are the reasons I liked Tyrod when he was here, but of course, he had nowhere near the ceiling that Allen has. Allen could be the best QB to come out of that draft. 

 

I will say that the one thing that did bother me after the draft was the interminable QB competition to see who could be the most consistently mediocre to start vs. the Ravens. What a waste of time that was!

 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

No not at all.  I watched him at Wyoming and you could immediately see the enormous talent and untapped potential.  All he needed was the right coaching to teach him to harness that potential (TBD).  If you remember after the 2017 Draft - Schefter had told him several GMs had stated he would be the #1 pick of the 2018 draft.  I believe he went to the right situation - he personifies Buffalo.  

[bigK14094]

I thought Allen was a high risk high reward choice for whoever took him.  Initial results after one season show that he was a good bet....he has been better than I expected in terms of results....winning anyhow, near a 50 win rate.....of course, I did not expect him to be winning games with his legs.  But, the dude can throw...and he is light years ahead of EJ Manuel who was the last #1 QB pick.  So, McBean got this right it appears....mind you, I am saying it looks like it was a good bet and will contiune to be that going forward until a more final judgement can be made.   Lets have this conversation again in 1 and then again in 2 years.

[Gugny]

Right before the draft, I mentally prepared myself for "either Josh," and was going to be happy with either one.

 

When we picked Allen, part of me was relieved because I thought (still think) Rosen is a major douchebag.

 

All in all, I loved the pick when it happened and he performed better than I anticipated.  I couldn't be happier with Allen as our QB heading into next season.

[RochesterRob]

2 hours ago, dpberr said:

I did not like the pick because of those accuracy issues.  I figured he'd be Jeff George where he'd throw for a billion yards but have a completion percentage of 55% every year.  

 

I am impressed with his play, football intelligence and his attitude. 

 

Bright future ahead.    

 

 

  I think that there is something to be said for a QB that may have a game average of 55 percent completions but gains 380 yards versus a guy that has a completion percentage of 72 percent but only gains 260 yards per game.  Yes, I think that completions are important but big yardage most likely means longer drives with more opportunity for scoring.

[buffalobloodfloridahome]

he's still inaccurate and runs too much in my opinion. Hopefully better protection and better weapons will reduce some of the issues and he can continue to work on his footwork and platform. I do love his intensity and leadership and willingness to sacrifice to make plays. His athletic ability is off the charts and if he can mold into more like Deshaun Watson than Cam Newton i would be thrilled.

[Virgil]

42 minutes ago, Captain Murica said:

It did for me. I wanted Baker, Darnold, Rosen, Allen, and then Jackson(if we didn’t trade up).

 

When we took Allen over Rosen I literally yelled, “Noooooooooooooo” and walked out of my friends house. But, after that night it was the mind set he is our guy and I have no ruling in the matter. 

 

Even though his completion rate is not good. Anyone that watches the game knows he is better than that, and his WRs/TEs did not help in the cause. 

 

I think in the long run if he’s anywhere from 59-63% throughout his career and with the ability to push the ball down field I’ll be okay with that. Plus, if we add some athleticism on the OL and can improve the screen game those numbers will inflate. 

 

I’m happy with our entire QB situation at this point in time and just want to build an offense around his skills to the best they can.  

 

Nailed it.  Did the same thing minus walking out of the house.  I mainly just sat there, paralyzed by anger 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

3 hours ago, Flip Johnson said:

 

I am convinced that there are some people on this board who would have watched Dan Marino in 1983 and said, "we need to see more."

 

Only if prior to the draft they had stated Marino will be  bust.  Whether Allen is good or bad doesn't really matter, all that matters is proving to themselves and most important to the rest of the world is to show that they were correct.  If it means somehow doubling down to prove your point, then by all means go for it!

[BillyWhiteShows]

Yes he has.  I was in the camp that wanted Rosen but was basing that purely on the majority of the coverage I was reading online.  Most of the coverage was terrible on Allen and analysts were predicting that he would bust before he threw a pass.

 

I also knew that there must have been a reason why several teams were high on him, despite the negative press from people like Jon Ledyard and “Mr. Grand Island” Joe Marino.  

 

I still dont know whether he will work out but I think we can agree that for the most part he exceeded the very dismal future that many predicted.

[Patrick Duffy]

He wasn't the 1st QB I wanted but the 1st QB I wanted was Baker Mayfield and of course he wasn't available. I was Kinda on the Rosen train a little bit after Mayfield and when they chose Allen I just basically hoped for the best case scenario.

 

He has absolutely surpassed my expectations and of course he still has a lot to learn, but I feel really good about him going forward and IMO he will continue to get better and better. So now I'm completely happy they decided to go with Allen and I think he gives me about the best hope for him becoming the franchise QB than I have had with any other QB in a long time.

[Magox]

23 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

Hold your beer and watch this:

 

 

What is equally amazing as his cannon arm and his ability to run the ball is his pocket awareness and how he stands in strong.  He will just sit there in the pocket and he seems to sense whether or not he's about to get hit to allow him to make the throws that take longer to develop.  And on the other hand, he senses when it's about to breakdown on him and he's able to get away and escape the pressure.

 

A light just seemed to switch on after his injury.  There is a huge pocket awareness presence difference in J.A pre and post injury.  The guy lives to make the big plays!

[clayboy54]

I was honestly disappointed on draft night. I watched a lot of clips on all the prospects and hoped that Mayfield would fall to us. I think it was the attitude and "it" factor that Baker showed. Since that time, I have seen that "it" factor from JA. I have become a true believer based exclusively on that. I could care less about completion percentage defining "accuracy". Take for instance, Brett Favre. He's a HOF QB that didn't have pinpoint accuracy, was a prototypical gunslinger, and was unequivocally a winner. Josh has every ability to be a Brett Favre type as a minimum. His real ceiling above that  will depend on his decision-making, ability to read defenses and continued work on mechanics. There is no doubt in my mind that he possesses the work ethic and desire to get there. The big caveat is that NFL football is the consummate team game. Will Beane and McDermott be able to build the championship-caliber team to support such a QB? This is what remains to be seen.

[hondo in seattle]

3 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

I talked myself into it within a hour after the draft and was all in. I’ve always been able to do that as a fan. 

 

I also thought everyone coming in here like they knew how these qb’s would pan out one way or the other looked like fools and I told them as much. 

 

If people come on here and act like they “know” how a qb is gonna workout it usually says to me they hadn’t watched a ton of the nfl or drafts over the years. 

 

 

There's no certainty in drafting college players - especially QBs.   Some GM - I forget which one  - once said that no college QB is NFL-ready.  So you have to guess which will continue to develop their skills and which won't.  Due diligence only gets you so far.  In the end, you cross your fingers.

 

Josh's arm talent has been pretty much as expected based on the little vid I watched and the scouting reports I had read.  What he can do with his legs is a revelation.  And I've been pleased with the role he's developing as a team leader.  I'm not convinced yet that he's a franchise QB but I am hopeful.  

[Pete]

Yes it has.  I didn't like Allen predraft.  But after watching a few plays in preseason- Josh gives me hope for the Bills.  His skillset is like no other.  He has an Aaron Rogers like arm, with Michael Vick speed, and Cam Newton size.  He was a one man team(slight hyperbole, but slight) many times.  The win with Keith Ford(fresh off PS, not being able to run half playbook) is case in point.  He is a leader who wants to be great, and wants to win.  Give him a good oline(a la Andrew Luck) and some playmakers (RB, WR, TE) and watch him shine

[msw2112]

I preferred Rosen at the time of the draft.  I had seen a few games he played at UCLA and he looked like a pro-ready QB.  I had never seen Allen play.  When we drafted Allen, I was disappointed, but have kept an open mind.  He has exceeded my expectations and I think he has the potential to be the best of the QB class.  No doubt Mayfield looks better now, but he was more pro-ready coming in and he has more weapons available to him.  He has Jarvis Landry, who I dislike, but think has incredible hands and is a very good WR.  He has a TE from Miami who was a 1st round pick and is developing into a quality NFL player.  He has some semblance of an OL and running game.  Allen has none of those things right now.  Assuming the Bills acquire those pieces, Allen has the potential to be great.  In addition to his physical abilities, which are obvious, he's competitive, fiery and tough.  He is a great teammate and leader.  He elevates others and guys will want to play with/for him.

Edited January 2, 2019 by msw2112

[metzelaars_lives]

3 hours ago, Juice_32 said:

I didn’t want him, I was yelling at the TV for Rosen. My initial fears were that Allen would be EJ 2.0. 

 

I can say today that I’m glad he was the pick and he is fun to watch. He still needs to work on his touch, accuracy and decision making (be willing to check down) but I think we’re going to be set with Josh for a long time.

How refreshing is it to be talking about a Bills QB, like, dude you need to check down more?!?

Edited January 2, 2019 by metzelaars_lives

[LSHMEAB]

1 hour ago, Stank_Nasty said:

 

 

i'm honestly not trying to be a jerk here guys but I have no clue how somebody can come to such over the top conclusions about a guy so early in their career. 

 

"he just wont ever get it".... after 6 games?...… seriously? that's just so silly to me. I don't know how that stuff can be taken seriously. 

Many, many quarterbacks have come into this league with big time skills and pedestrian college numbers. There hasn't been a successful NFL QB since Brett Favre(30 YEARS AGO when passing numbers were much different) with a 56% collegiate completion percentage who panned out. Do you follow these trends or just take the wait and see approach? That is the origin of the skepticism. The new school data driven folks hated him as a prospect(many still do), but most have moved toward the middle based on the big time plays he's able to make that less talented guys simply cannot. His strengths are greater than anyone anticipated. It wasn't merely the first 6 games; he's your typical boom or bust QB and most of them are bust. These are just facts. So I can't understand how YOU can't understand what it is that made Josh Allen such a polarizing player.

 

As I've stated, I'm much more open to the idea that the data driven folks missed the boat on Josh Allen than I was before the season. 

Edited January 2, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[rayray808]

I think the Bills leaked the tweets to land him at 7... he would have went number one to Cleveland.

[TN Bills Fan]

Significantly.  I didn't want him in the draft because accuracy rarely improves.   Not sure it will significantly improve but the "deep in" patterns have improved so there is hope.  Was not aware of his leadership abilities.  Was not aware he could run.  I have noticed him sliding in the pocket to avoid the rush as opposed to just taking off.  That is a huge improvement.  We finally have a QB who can run a QB sneak.  Can't remember a QB we had who could sneak since James Harris.  Very skeptical and now sold on at least next year.

[LSHMEAB]

39 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  I think that there is something to be said for a QB that may have a game average of 55 percent completions but gains 380 yards versus a guy that has a completion percentage of 72 percent but only gains 260 yards per game.  Yes, I think that completions are important but big yardage most likely means longer drives with more opportunity for scoring.

But that's the thing. He really didn't put up big yardage numbers at Wyoming. I understand your point and have readily admitted that he's far better than I thought, but to dismiss the initial skepticism is to not understand it's origin.

[Stank_Nasty]

13 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Many, many quarterbacks have come into this league with big time skills and pedestrian college numbers. There hasn't been a successful NFL QB since Brett Favre(30 YEARS AGO when passing numbers were much different) with a 56% collegiate completion percentage who panned out. Do you follow these trends or just take the wait and see approach? That is the origin of the skepticism. The new school data driven folks hated him as a prospect(many still do), but most have moved toward the middle based on the big time plays he's able to make that less talented guys simply cannot. His strengths are greater than anyone anticipated. It wasn't merely the first 6 games; he's your typical boom or bust QB and most of them are bust. These are just facts. So I can't understand how YOU can't understand what it is that made Josh Allen such a polarizing player.

 

As I've stated, I'm much more open to the idea that the data driven folks missed the boat on Josh Allen than I was before the season. 

because I've watched enough football and enough draft picks to realize that coming to any sort of dramatic conclusions(positive or negative) about any player before they even played a down is folly.

[LSHMEAB]

Just now, Stank_Nasty said:

because I've watched enough football and enough draft picks to realize that coming to any sort of dramatic conclusions(positive or negative) about any player before they even played a down is folly.

So you don't have ANY strong opinions about any of the draft prospects in 2019? 

[Bills92]

I like.. many wanted the other Josh..   In retrospect, it's quite clear that I bought into all the 'stuff' that mainstream media said about Rosen (Being the most pro ready, big college program, etc) vs Allen (small program, inaccurate, big time project).. but once I actually saw both Allen and Rosen on the NFL field..  my opinion started to turn quickly.  Ultimately, my 'hope' in Allen resides in a couple of things that we have seen..  1) He has demonstrated an ability to learn.   This really has resonated over the last six games.  Any fan can see that game has continued to slow down for him.  The is a function of him learning on the job 2) Leadership.  It's quite clear he is the leader of this team.  For a rookie like Allen to come into this team as a third stringer  (granted he was a high draft pick) and come out as the leader of this team (backed up by both vets like Lorax and KW) speaks volumes to me.

 

The future is bright is my friends.

 

  

[BillsSbSoon]

Didnt hate allen, loved the arm and didnt think he was nearly as inaccurate as he was made out to be, from watching just about all the tape i could. His senior bowl tape really was an eye opener. Played with better talent and threw dimes all over.

 

That being said, rosen was 100% who i was set on. Thought he was absolutely the top qb in the draft and when we traded up and he was still there and we didnt take him, i think i nearly had a stroke.

But im all in with JA. After the injury, i think weve got our guy finally. Hes only going to get better too guys. And he fits buffalo so well its crazy.

[Stank_Nasty]

6 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

So you don't have ANY strong opinions about any of the draft prospects in 2019? 

I need to educate myself quite a bit more now that nfl regular season is over..... and even then, no I wont have overly strong opinions on many, if any, of the players. I rarely do. the way things work out, or don't workout, has shown its not a winning venture.

 

I've had strong feelings about guys. I've had a hard on for Mayfield since he was a sophomore at OU. I also LOVED the james hardy pick?...… my point is, even if I feel one way or the other I've always realized that talking like you know one way or the other for sure about how a pick is gonna pan out isn't very becoming. its just so happens its a fairly common trait here.... and that's fine I suppose. Because it is a place to voice opinion, after all..... people just need to be prepared when it makes them look really foolish. 

 

if watching the NFL or the draft has taught me anything over the years its that people really don't have much of a pulse on if they actually know or don't know whether a guy is gonna pan out or not. 

Edited January 2, 2019 by Stank_Nasty

[GoBills808]

My guy from the get go.

[LSHMEAB]

6 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

I need to educate myself quite a bit more now that nfl regular season is over..... and even then, no I wont have overly strong opinions on many, if any, of the players. I rarely do. the way things work out, or don't workout, has shown its not a winning venture.

 

I've had strong feelings about guys. I've had a hard on for Mayfield since he was a sophomore at OU. I also LOVED the james hardy pick?...… my point is, even if I feel one way or the other I've always realized that talking like you know one way or the other for sure about how a pick is gonna pan out isn't very becoming. its just so happens its a fairly common trait here.... and that's fine I suppose. Because it is a place to voice opinion, after all..... people just need to be prepared when it makes them look really foolish. 

 

if watching the NFL or the draft has taught me anything over the years its that people really don't have much of a pulse on if they actually know or don't know whether a guy is gonna pan out or not. 

I get it. For me personally, there's no downside in having a strong negative opinion on Allen. If I'm wrong, that's good for the Bills, and ultimately more important than any opinion I spout on a message board.

 

As a betting man, I'm perfectly used to being wrong. It happens all the time. I just want to be right 53 percent of the time.

Edited January 2, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[Magox]

30 minutes ago, metzelaars_lives said:

How refreshing is it to be talking about a Bills QB, like, dude you need to check down more?!?

 

I made a similar comment about a week ago.  It's sort of like the ugly vs fat debate.  At least the fat dude can lose the weight but the ugly dude will always be ugly.

 

The fact that he can throw it down the field with ease and that is his natural tendency you can always coach him to check down more.  The other check down masters, they just can't seem to let it rip down the field.  

 

Allen wants to make the plays down the field, he just needs to harness it in some.

[Just Joshin']

I had him 4th out of 5 in the draft - ahead of Jackson, behind Rosen.

 

After season 1 he would be at 2 in a tie with Darnold.  Mayfield ahead today but may not be in the long run if Allen keeps progressing.

 

Interested to see this in a year.

[Juice_32]

43 minutes ago, metzelaars_lives said:

How refreshing is it to be talking about a Bills QB, like, dude you need to check down more?!?

 

It is a problem I never thought I'd live to see the Bills have. I'm no QB coach but I'd venture to guess it is a lot easier to teach a guy to check down than it is to teach a guy to let it rip down field.

[stevewin]

I was just rooting for him to succeed - no expectations other than that.  Let him at least take some snaps before judging him.

 

Someone should unearth those threads when we first drafted him - some of the the out of control screeching hate/vitriol for a guy we drafted before he ever took a snap was ridiculous and an embarrassment.  It's one thing to have an (even strong) opinion and say "I don't like it - He wasn't my guy - I don't think he'll do well" - but some of the over the top negativity was patently ridiculous.  

[SACTOBILLSFAN]

I had concerns about his accuracy on draft night and those concerns persist, but the kid is likable and easy to root for because everyone hates on him. I also don't think it's fair to really judge him on a season with the worst collection of WRs I've ever seen, and that's more an indictment of the poor job McBeane has done in talent acquisition. 

 

If you forced me to make a call on his career, I'd say he'd never be a top 10 QB or a QB that can win a Super Bowl. Hopefully, I am extremely wrong on this one because I really want Allen to be awesome just to dunk on people on Twitter. 

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

35 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

My guy from the get go.

 

Serious ups to you for that!