twist_to_open Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Now that we have our QB of the future, Beane will trade down in this year's draft at least once and use the boatload of lower 1st and 2nd round picks to aquire OL, DL and receiver talent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, B_4_life said: So the ransom is set, would you do it? I would do a next year 1st and a 6th in 2021 that’s it  call it what ever you want ! Sorry got to go I got Trump blowing up my phone ? again ? Edited August 30, 2018 by Putin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Super Mario was worth the contract till Rex got here. AÂ FA without having to trade high draft picks is a better route. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 2 number ones plus a long term monster contract- no way in hell! Wait until FA next year and put someone solid next to Edmunds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 8 hours ago, Gugny said: As long as he can be a DE, LB, WR and OL, then yes. It's a steal!! We know he can be a DE and a LB!! Maybe TE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I’d do it but not for consecutive firsts. Next years and then 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Figster said:  thanks for the reply,  If I remember correctly Schwartz had a top 5 D in Buffalo which both Mario and Marcel played a big part in.  funny what coaching/systems can do for players  Bright new shiny toy, or Mack truck?  If McD/ Beane show a genuine interest then its probably not going to hurt the process on so many levels IMO.  with all due respect  When the Bills signed Mario Williams for 100 million in 2013 he came to a near perfect fit defense for his skillset and Mike Pettine did utilize him accordingly. Mario had 13 sacks in 2013 with a defense that was 20th in points allowed, 10th in yards allowed. That 2013 Buffalo Bills team finished the year 6-10. Buffalo was the number two team in sacks that year behind only Carolina.  In 2014 the Buffalo Bills defense with new DC Jim Schwartz was the number four defense overall #4 in points allowed, #4 in points allowed. This was the perfect scheme for Mario Williams as he led the entire NFL in sacks with 14.5 and Buffalo led the NFL in sacks with 54.  The 2014* Buffalo Bills finished the season 9-7 and no playoffs.  In 2017 the Buffalo Bills made the playoffs for the first time since 2000 and they were 29th in the NFL in sacks with only 27. Meanwhile, the Oakland Raiders with Mack was 24th in the NFL with 30 sacks. Speaking of Mack his best year was in 2015 in which he had 15 sacks, 2016, 11 sacks, 2017, 10 sacks.  While Mack is a good pass rusher... did he make the Raiders a playoff team in 2017 with his pass rush? In a word, NO! The 2017 Oakland Raiders were 17th overall defense with 20th in points allowed, 23 in yards allowed. Not a very good defense.  Like others have pointed out that this current Buffalo Bills team isn't one pass rusher away from a super bowl or even the playoffs, much less a winning season.  The Buffalo Bills already went through this with DE Mario Williams and Bills fans going nuts (hundreds of pages in a post in this forum) thinking that he was the key to a Buffalo Bills championship. He wasn't and the Bills had a far more talented roster at that time. Last year 15 players had more sacks than Mack.  Making a player like Mack one of the highest paid defensive ends in the league and giving up two first-round picks to the Raiders for him would be more than moronic considering how many holes this team currently still has. I think the Bills FO inquired because of the need for a decent pass rusher and now that they know what It would take to acquire the player I think it's cost prohibitive both money wise and draft picks wise. Edited August 30, 2018 by Nihilarian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 6 hours ago, Figster said: McD and the big Mack attack  Match made in football heaven... To all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Two 1sts? Astro says give ‘em McCargo & EJ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I'll bet if you offer ONE first rounder, and send a real hairstylist to fix up Mark Davis, you'll see action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 1 hour ago, twist_to_open said: Now that we have our QB of the future, Beane will trade down in this year's draft at least once and use the boatload of lower 1st and 2nd round picks to aquire OL, DL and receiver talent. Had that very conversation last night with someone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Next year's 1st. Take it or leave it Oakland. Mack, Edmunds, White- we have a stud each level of the defense. And our defense would be one of top in NFL.  Devote rest of draft picks and cap space to fix oline and WR.  Contend for Superbowl in 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I think now we can officially forget about trading for Khalil Mack. That’s insane to trade 2 first round draft picks. The Raiders are messing around with Mack.  https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/08/29/report-raiders-seeking-two-first-round-picks-for-khalil-mack/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Who would be stupid enough to trade away two first rounders for a player from that draft year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 10 hours ago, mrags said: The closer it gets to game day. And the more Mack stresses that he will not play and will sit out the entire year only to leave in FA in the offseason, the raiders will take what they can get for him. Asking everyone for 2 first rounds now will gauge if anyone is stupid enough to offer that for him.  Amd no. At that price I would not.  John Dorsey is on the phone... 16 minutes ago, Pete said: Next year's 1st. Take it or leave it Oakland. Mack, Edmunds, White- we have a stud each level of the defense. And our defense would be one of top in NFL.  Devote rest of draft picks and cap space to fix oline and WR.  Contend for Superbowl in 2019  I don't think this defense is a Khalil Mack away from being one of the top in the league. They struggled to slow down Matt Barkley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I was thinking about this and if they are ever going to fix this crappy offense, the Bills need first round picks. I'm not seeing a scenario where they can do both. The FA class next year looks not too good, so I think they should hold on to their picks and get help on the offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:  John Dorsey is on the phone...  I don't think this defense is a Khalil Mack away from being one of the top in the league. They struggled to slow down Matt Barkley. Our D was surprisingly solid last year( minus the 3 game disaster) and we did it with zero pass rush and poor run defense. Poyer, Hyde, and White is a quality secondary.. Add Trent, Star, Trumaine, Harrison and Khalil- I am very optimistic for our defense.  Edited August 30, 2018 by Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Pete said: Our D was surprisingly solid last year( minus the 3 game disaster) and we did it with zero pass rush and poor run defense Poyer, Hyde, and White is a quality secondary.. Add Trent, Star, Trumain, Harrison and Khalil- I am very optimistic for our defense.   We shall see. Maybe they are just a bit rusty. The Ginger Hammer was carving them up--especially the secondary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigK14094 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I am concerned, this is the kind of bad trade Bean likes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 10 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said: I was thinking about this and if they are ever going to fix this crappy offense, the Bills need first round picks. I'm not seeing a scenario where they can do both. The FA class next year looks not too good, so I think they should hold on to their picks and get help on the offense. A part of me feels like if we are 2-6 at the mid point which is very possible then we might just as well write off the balance of the season to perhaps get a top 3 pick.  Then we could trade out if we thought there was more value in doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda Popinski Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Good there is no way in hell we make that trade.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 10 hours ago, Cornette's Commentary said: Thank God you aren't in charge of anything having to do with player personnel decisions for this team. I swear, there should be a basic intelligence test required before fans can even REGISTER to join this site.  chill dude 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 (edited) Absolutely not!  When you look at what the trade market has been on pass rushers over the past 3 years this is a gross over pay.  If any GM is considering this they need to be fired ASAP.  I think the Mack thing has gotten to the point where the want for the trade to happen has outweighed common sense.  Over the last three seasons two edge rushers close in age, statistical output and talent have been traded and they didnt fetch anything close to 1 1st round pick let alone two:  If you look below Chandler Jones was younger, and as productive or more when traded by NE to Arizona.   Player  Age  Gms  Tack  Sack  FF  PD  INT   Tack/GM  Sack/GM  FF/GM  PD/GM  INT/GM  Mack 27 64 231 40.5 9 11 1 3.609375 0.632813 0.140625 0.17 0.015 Jones 25 52 134 36 0 9 1 2.576923 0.692308 0 0.17 0.019 Quinn 28 95 175 62.5 21 16 0 1.842105 0.657895 0.221053 0.16 0  If you look at what Arizona and Miami gave up to procure Jones and Quinn respectively, the value was nowhere near one 1st round pick.  Player Value Points Received by Previous Team Value Points Spent by Current Team Adjusted Player Value by Round Jones Arizona Sent NE 292 Value Points (2nd Round 61) NE Sent 0 picks in return to Arizona Chandler Jones' adjusted value is then 292 (2nd Round 61) Quinn Miami Sent LAR 38 (4th 135) & 20.6 (6th 176) a total of 58.6 value points. LAR sent Miami 7.4 (6th 209) value points in addition to Quinn Robert Quinn's adjusted value is then 51.2 (4th 121)   Bottom line is Oakland knows it will eventually resign Mack. But, if in the mean time they can fleece a team for the player based on his name recognition they would be glad to do so.   Edited August 30, 2018 by thenorthremembers 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda Popinski Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 9 minutes ago, ddaryl said:  chill dude what did you say to trigger this cat?  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Just now, Soda Popinski said: what did you say to trigger this cat?    Not me this time.. ?...  Nope can't take credit for this one... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda Popinski Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, ddaryl said:   Not me this time.. ?...  Nope can't take credit for this one... ? LOL ok I was looking and couldn't find anything he quoted you on.   People are going to be for and against sending two picks to Oakland for Mack. THere are always people on both sides of an issue.  I let things get me worked up sometimes too but ehh, not over this.  Edited August 30, 2018 by Soda Popinski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moulds_80 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Shaq Lawson and a 1st...id do that 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 6 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:  So a mayonnaise drinking wrestling fan is going to insult anothers intelligence?  Talk about a lack of self awareness.  The price tag isn't any of the raiders concern. Why should they take less because you have to extend an elite player? They would be moronic for taking into consideration what an extension would cost another franchise. It does nothing for them.  That's not the issue. The issue is they can't or don't want to pay him. I don't think it's him wanting out of Oakland, it more the business side. The raiders can set the price at whatever they want.  It doesn’t mean they’re going to get it.  It’s the reality of the situation.  Are they ok with having their best player sit out the whole season. It’s a distraction whether or not they admit it. Now, I’m not saying they should accept a 2nd rd pick for him, but I doubt any team is going to give up 2 first rd picks AND pay him 20 mill plus a year.  Imo, it would set that franchise back.  Whichever team traded 2 first rd picks for him would have to win the SB in the first year or two for it to be worth it, it would be a lot harder to win after that.  would you guys like to trade a potential top 5 pick in next years draft for Mack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Defense Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:  It was way more complicated than that  http://www.profootballhof.com/football-history/trick-or-trade/    Well, not from the Bills end, except that it even more than 2 first round picks, which I knew.  It was the seminal moment, to me, in the Bills success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I've read some where that Gruen didn't think he had a back up QB on the roster so McBean should package AJ, Corey Coleman, & Shaq Lawson plus a #1 & a 2 for Mack !  Who ever the jack ass was that let Mack get out of B/lo in the first place should be slapped in the head I'm pretty sure it was Whaley the same year he pulled the brilliant trade to get Watkins which makes that move even more ignorant !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PS 56 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Its a tell that marijuana is now legal in California. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Almighty Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 21 minutes ago, Moulds_80 said: Shaq Lawson and a 1st...id do that I think Oakland would rather a 1st and a kickers tee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 38 minutes ago, Moulds_80 said: Shaq Lawson and a 1st...id do that  No more than this. This is the Max. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 11 hours ago, Teddy KGB said: Throw in an OFFENSIVE LINE and I’m in !  Fixed it for ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Not with the first round pick the Bills will have in 2019. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 There is no way the Bills are going to give up a first round pick, even 1, for Mack and pay him.  They have just worked themselves out of cap hell and investing $100m plus in a player with probably 3 years of prime production left is not likely in their plans.  Giving up next year's first for the privilege of doing so, when there are a number of excellent pass rushers who will be available to them with what will likely be a top 10 pick, would also be shocking.  This is not the move the Bills need to make to build this team, as fun as it would be to have Mack in the lineup.  They should have done that when they had the chance in the draft instead of chasing the Watkins fools gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MILFHUNTER#518 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 11 hours ago, Cornette's Commentary said: Thank God you aren't in charge of anything having to do with player personnel decisions for this team. I swear, there should be a basic intelligence test required before fans can even REGISTER to join this site. I like your profile picture, it makes you look real smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I wouldn’t give up 2 first round picks + pay that salary to any player other than a top 10 QB.  I love Mack. I’d give them a 1st round pick and a 3rd round pick.  Or a 1st round pick and a player like Hughes or even Shady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillies Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Gruden was complaining that his backup QB is NOT currently on the roster (hates EJ and the other guy). How about AJ and next year's 1st? That works for me and might be intriguing for them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Madness Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Nihilarian said: In 2014 the Buffalo Bills defense with new DC Jim Schwartz was the number four defense overall #4 in points allowed, #4 in points allowed. This was the perfect scheme for Mario Williams as he led the entire NFL in sacks with 14.5 and Buffalo led the NFL in sacks with 54.  The 2014* Buffalo Bills finished the season 9-7 and no playoffs.  Not to nitpick and I agree with your position, but Justin Houston lead the NFL in sacks in 2014 with 22. The Bills have not had the NFL leader in sacks since Bryce Paup in 1995 with 17.5. Edited August 30, 2018 by Westside Madness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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