RyanC883 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 1 First, in 2020. 9 minutes ago, BuffaloBillies said: Gruden was complaining that his backup QB is NOT currently on the roster (hates EJ and the other guy). How about AJ and next year's 1st? That works for me and might be intriguing for them. we have to deal fast. Gruden also loves Josh Dobbs (Steelers backup). But I like your idea. 1 hour ago, T master said: I've read some where that Gruen didn't think he had a back up QB on the roster so McBean should package AJ, Corey Coleman, & Shaq Lawson plus a #1 & a 2 for Mack ! Who ever the jack ass was that let Mack get out of B/lo in the first place should be slapped in the head I'm pretty sure it was Whaley the same year he pulled the brilliant trade to get Watkins which makes that move even more ignorant !! Coleman and Lawson are too young for the old-players team Gruden is building. Lets send him Lorax (kind of over the hill) and AJ plus a 1st! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 12 hours ago, Cornette's Commentary said: Thank God you aren't in charge of anything having to do with player personnel decisions for this team. I swear, there should be a basic intelligence test required before fans can even REGISTER to join this site. Ok, come up with the questions and submit them. SMARTY PANTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 (edited) I'm of the opinion we should be one of the teams interested in Mack. His contract is a non issue and we desperately need impact players on the defense as a whole and most definitely the line. We have about 62 million in cap space next year so plenty of room to sign Mack and address the offensive line. The following year we have over 120 million in cap space so we're in excellent shape to fill out the team. I'm most concerned about how to fix the WR problem. The only concern I have with the trade is I would want to address wide receiver or offensive line in the first round next year. I'd offer a first round pick in 2020 and a second in 2019. Edited August 30, 2018 by White Linen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I think a 1st next year and a 1st in 2020, after we win the SB. More like a second then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Soda Popinski said: LOL ok I was looking and couldn't find anything he quoted you on. People are going to be for and against sending two picks to Oakland for Mack. THere are always people on both sides of an issue. I let things get me worked up sometimes too but ehh, not over this. He just jumped on another dude post for arguing for the 2 1st rd picks by suggesting their be an intelligence test to post here. If it was a 2 page dialog of stupidity maybe that reply would be valid but not over a single simple post IMO. Too much intolerance and hatred here sometimes 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Almighty Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I'm not saying we should send 2 1st round picks over BUT... The Bills have 2 1st round picks on the team from 2000 to present. 1 is Shaq which I'm sure everyone agrees is a bust. The other is Tre. Mack is a known probowler. The 2 ones we save may or may not be busts. They are the unknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 12 hours ago, B_4_life said: So the ransom is set, would you do it? No. We've been down this road at least twice before with Drew Bledsoe and Mario Williams. Football is a team sport probably more than any other, and adding a single player, even a QB, isn't going to have a tremendous impact on team success unless the team's already a good team that just needs 1 piece. The Bills need too many pieces for Mack to significantly improve the team's record this season -- and what the Bills spend to get him and then to re-sign him will likely negatively impact their ability to add and keep more pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, Starr Almighty said: I'm not saying we should send 2 1st round picks over BUT... The Bills have 2 1st round picks on the team from 2000 to present. 1 is Shaq which I'm sure everyone agrees is a bust. The other is Tre. Mack is a known probowler. The 2 ones we save may or may not be busts. They are the unknown Who's fault is that? McDermott/Whaley/Brandon let Stephon Gilmore walk in FA. Beane traded away Watkins and Dareus in his short tenure here. None of them were busts. They just apparently didn't mesh with the Bills plans, which seem to be, as usual over the last 20 years, to put profit over winning ... and before you claim that's not true, make a list of all the ex-Bills who have been significant contributors to the success of so many playoff teams since 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 New England should do it, then get caught cheating again on purpose and lose those picks, thus screwing Oakland into trading Mack for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 39 minutes ago, Starr Almighty said: I'm not saying we should send 2 1st round picks over BUT... The Bills have 2 1st round picks on the team from 2000 to present. 1 is Shaq which I'm sure everyone agrees is a bust. The other is Tre. Mack is a known probowler. The 2 ones we save may or may not be busts. They are the unknown When you start planning your future based on someone else’s failures you’re really screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatonka68 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 SHAQ and a 1st, take it or leave it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 13 hours ago, Lfod said: "Not for a player that doesn't want to be on your team. I'm not going to solve your problem and over pay you for it." -Beane *Click* I think most GMs would be thinking the same thing. 11 hours ago, LittleJoeCartwright said: I wonder how far out they can go with future picks? I'd give 2 1sts if one can be out in 2025. Teams right now can only trade picks in the 2019 and 2020 draft. As soon as the 2019 NFL draft opens teams can then trade 2021 picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjd1001 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 (edited) If he were a free agent...FREE (no picks or players), I'm not 100% sure I'd want him if he is asking for $16-$18 million per year for 6 years. So, if that is his 'contract' price...I don't want to give up anything for him. I would maybe, MAYBE give up a 2nd next year...maybe a 1st in 2020...if you could get him on a 4 year deal for $60 or less total. I don't think either of those things are happening so I hope the Bills don't make a play for him at a higher price. It isn't the draft pick compensation that worries me so much....as the cost (in dollars and cap space) you are going to pay someone who will be well into his 30's by the end of the contract. Edited August 30, 2018 by mjd1001 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joaquin1119 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Get it done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Almighty Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 58 minutes ago, SoTier said: Who's fault is that? McDermott/Whaley/Brandon let Stephon Gilmore walk in FA. Beane traded away Watkins and Dareus in his short tenure here. None of them were busts. They just apparently didn't mesh with the Bills plans, which seem to be, as usual over the last 20 years, to put profit over winning ... and before you claim that's not true, make a list of all the ex-Bills who have been significant contributors to the success of so many playoff teams since 2000. You can't say they are trying to save a buck and then turn around and say none of the guys that were let go have done anything significant in the league. My point was just that The Bills almost always miss on 1st round picks. If they traded for Mack we know it's a hit and not a miss for sure. The guys that have been traded for the most part have done zip just like they did in a Bills uniform. 37 minutes ago, Commonsense said: When you start planning your future based on someone else’s failures you’re really screwed. It's been many regimes over that time all failed. You can't fail on a sure thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsMafia13 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 10 hours ago, Nihilarian said: The Bills paid 100 million to Mario Williams and had the best pass rush in the NFL...where did it get them? The Bills had Marcel Dareus one of the very best DT's in the league and he got paid and got lazy. Two first rounders for Sammy, was he worth that, is he worth what he is now getting paid? Paying all that money and draft choices to and for Mack is another fool's errand. This team is in the process of being built properly and while Mack might look like a bright, new shiny toy... all bringing him in would do is hurt the process on so many levels. I dont disagree but its not fair to compare Mack to Dareus or Williams. Mario only showed for the money and off field Darues and Mack are totally differnt. Also Mack> Williams/Dareus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 14 hours ago, Cornette's Commentary said: Thank God you aren't in charge of anything having to do with player personnel decisions for this team. I swear, there should be a basic intelligence test required before fans can even REGISTER to join this site. You & me. Let’s party together. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Not sure you can do this, but I’d do this: a conditional 1st or 2nd in 2019 & a conditional 1st or 2nd in 2020, based on numerical performance metrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 (edited) 33 minutes ago, BillsMafia13 said: I dont disagree but its not fair to compare Mack to Dareus or Williams. Mario only showed for the money and off field Darues and Mack are totally differnt. Also Mack> Williams/Dareus Mario was one of the best pass rushers in the NFL in Buffalo under Pettine, Schwartz. His problems started when Rex Ryan took him out of a 4-3 and put him in his 3-4 defense to play DE. Thus instead of asking him to solely rush the passer, he was asked to take on the 300 plus offensive tackle or drop into pass coverage while the Bills craptastic linebackers were supposed to make plays. This is why Rex Ryan's defense sucked so badly! Dareus not only had off the field issues he also got lazy in Buffalo once he got that big contract. While Mack is a force to be reckoned with in Oakland's 4-3 defensive scheme. He is also somewhat undersized as an NFL defensive end @ 6'3 252 LBs. Mario was 6'6' 300 Lbs. Like I said in an earlier post in this thread that the Bills and Bills fans have been down this road before with a pass rusher. The Bills led the NFL in sacks and pass rush and it didn't even get them into the playoffs. At this point, the Bills need more talent at many positions rather than one DE who can rush the passer. As for all the fans wanting to give up TWO first round picks for Mack. Just remember that in the time leading up to the last draft that 90% of Bills fans wanted this FO to give up TWO first round picks and perhaps that 2019 first round pick all to the NY Giants to move up to take Josh Rosen with the #2 overall pick. Both Beane and McD know what they are doing and I highly doubt we will ever see Mack in a Bills uni for anything close to even a number one pick or make the guy one of the highest paid defensive players in the NFL. Leave this to the more stupid NFL GM's. Edited August 30, 2018 by Nihilarian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsMafia13 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Just playing devils advocate here. What are some of the big contracts defensive players have received in the last say 15 years that you would deem worth the investment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills1212 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Nihilarian said: Mario was one of the best pass rushers in the NFL in Buffalo under Pettine, Schwartz. His problems started when Rex Ryan took him out of a 4-3 and put him in his 3-4 defense to play DE. Thus instead of asking him to solely rush the passer, he was asked to take on the 300 plus offensive tackle or drop into pass coverage while the Bills craptastic linebackers were supposed to make plays. This is why Rex Ryan's defense sucked so badly! Dareus not only had off the field issues he also got lazy in Buffalo once he got that big contract. While Mack is a force to be reckoned with in Oakland's 4-3 defensive scheme. He is also somewhat undersized as an NFL defensive end @ 6'3 252 LBs. Mario was 6'6' 300 Lbs. Like I said in an earlier post in this thread that the Bills and Bills fans have been down this road before with a pass rusher. The Bills led the NFL in sacks and pass rush and it didn't even get them into the playoffs. At this point, the Bills need more talent at many positions rather than one DE who can rush the passer. As for all the fans wanting to give up TWO first round picks for Mack. Just remember that in the time leading up to the last draft that 90% of Bills fans wanted this FO to give up TWO first round picks and perhaps that 2019 first round pick all to the NY Giants to move up to take Josh Rosen with the #2 overall pick. Both Beane and McD know what they are doing and I highly doubt we will ever see Mack in a Bills uni for anything close to even a number one pick or make the guy one of the highest paid defensive players in the NFL. Leave this to the more stupid NFL GM's. Post of the year. I quoted it just so i can be associated with it Edited August 30, 2018 by gobills1212 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xwnyer Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 we get mack and two first rounder? Pull the plug!!1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 15 hours ago, Lfod said: "Not for a player that doesn't want to be on your team. I'm not going to solve your problem and over pay you for it." -Beane *Click* Nicely put! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 42 minutes ago, Nihilarian said: Mario was one of the best pass rushers in the NFL in Buffalo under Pettine, Schwartz. His problems started when Rex Ryan took him out of a 4-3 and put him in his 3-4 defense to play DE. Thus instead of asking him to solely rush the passer, he was asked to take on the 300 plus offensive tackle or drop into pass coverage while the Bills craptastic linebackers were supposed to make plays. This is why Rex Ryan's defense sucked so badly! Dareus not only had off the field issues he also got lazy in Buffalo once he got that big contract. While Mack is a force to be reckoned with in Oakland's 4-3 defensive scheme. He is also somewhat undersized as an NFL defensive end @ 6'3 252 LBs. Mario was 6'6' 300 Lbs. Like I said in an earlier post in this thread that the Bills and Bills fans have been down this road before with a pass rusher. The Bills led the NFL in sacks and pass rush and it didn't even get them into the playoffs. At this point, the Bills need more talent at many positions rather than one DE who can rush the passer. As for all the fans wanting to give up TWO first round picks for Mack. Just remember that in the time leading up to the last draft that 90% of Bills fans wanted this FO to give up TWO first round picks and perhaps that 2019 first round pick all to the NY Giants to move up to take Josh Rosen with the #2 overall pick. Both Beane and McD know what they are doing and I highly doubt we will ever see Mack in a Bills uni for anything close to even a number one pick or make the guy one of the highest paid defensive players in the NFL. Leave this to the more stupid NFL GM's. The one main ingredient Buffalo was missing when it comes to making the playoffs had more to do with the QB position then anything IMO. To say Buffalo led the NFL before in sacks yet failed to make the playoffs like it was a waste of time doesn't make much sense in my humble opinion. Both Beane and McD do know what their doing and although Mack may never play in Buffalo the Bills still showed interest knowing he wouldn't come cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 (edited) if Mack was in next years draft....he'd be the first pick. Top 100 Players 2018 #16 Mack http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000930293 Edited August 30, 2018 by papazoid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Is there any rumors as to what Khalil Mack wants for a contract and what the Raiders have offered? Has Mack every bad mouthed the Raider organization before the contract breakdown? It's speculated that Mack wants 20 million a year minimum. I can see that. What are the Raiders saying? 18, 19, 17? Now Gruden is telling other teams he will entertain trade deals for 2 1st round picks. If Mack is good enough for that AND the team will have to pay him too................... this is starting to sound like Gruden wants to "use" Mack to build his "war chest". I'm thinking that maybe Gruden has purposely low balled Mack to create this situation. If that's true then I can see why Mack is adamant in sitting out and forcing Gruden to do something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickrage Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 3 hours ago, Starr Almighty said: I'm not saying we should send 2 1st round picks over BUT... The Bills have 2 1st round picks on the team from 2000 to present. 1 is Shaq which I'm sure everyone agrees is a bust. The other is Tre. Mack is a known probowler. The 2 ones we save may or may not be busts. They are the unknown Josh Allen and Tremaine Edmunds are also 1st rounders....Just sayin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, papazoid said: if Mack was in next years draft....he'd be the first pick. Top 100 Players 2018 #16 Mack http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000930293 Not if there is a decent QB available, and only if Mack can find a “way back machine” to make him 22 years old (instead of 28) this coming April. Edited August 30, 2018 by mannc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Almighty Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, nickrage said: Josh Allen and Tremaine Edmunds are also 1st rounders....Just sayin They were just drafted. Who cuts a 1st round pick before the season has even started, the year they were drafted. ??♂️??♂️??♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBBills Fan Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 14 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: It was way more complicated than that http://www.profootballhof.com/football-history/trick-or-trade/ Deals like that are one in a million Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 32 minutes ago, papazoid said: if Mack was in next years draft....he'd be the first pick. Top 100 Players 2018 #16 Mack http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000930293 This is a pretty good point What is the quality of this next year's draft....it is supposed to be a poor QB draft.....does appear to have pass rushing talent. If you look at it in a way that you are getting what would have been the best player in next year's draft and you are paying extra for that luxery.....it doesnt sting so much. Our QB is on a rookie deal.....now could be the time to consider this (not 2 first round picks though) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: This is a pretty good point What is the quality of this next year's draft....it is supposed to be a poor QB draft.....does appear to have pass rushing talent. If you look at it in a way that you are getting what would have been the best player in next year's draft and you are paying extra for that luxery.....it doesnt sting so much. Our QB is on a rookie deal.....now could be the time to consider this (not 2 first round picks though) 3 2019 NFL draft rankings: It’s going to be a great year for pass rushers https://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2018/8/30/17794992/2019-nfl-mock-draft-players-rankings-nick-bosa-ed-oliver-justin-herbert-dexter-lawrence DRAFTWIRE Has Buffalo selecting the first overall pick. 1. Buffalo Bills | Nick Bosa | EDGE | Ohio State It's best player available for the Bills, who already have what they hope is a franchise… https://draftwire.usatoday.com/gallery/2019-nfl-mock-draft-updated-projections-heading-into-week-1/ Walterfootball.com also has the Buffalo Bills selecting the #1 overall pick in the 2019 NFL draft. http://walterfootball.com/draft2019charlie.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I mentioned this earlier and I realize hindsight is twenty twenty but if memory serves me correctly the Bills moved up and used an additional First Round pick on Sammy when just one pick later they could have drafted Mack, and so now they’re going to spend two more First Round picks on him? That’d probably make Mack the most ‘expensive’ selection in the history of the NFL. Pretty frightening when you look at it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreggTX Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 No way. We will have a top 5 or even top 3 pick in the next draft and 2 picks in the top 37. I'm sure we can get a great pair of day 1 starters if Beane gets it together. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevnallen Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I would go for Mack if we could shore up the offensive line with free agency. Throw in a good WR from the second round and we would have a solid team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda Popinski Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 If I recall correctly we still had Mario Williams at that time, and we had just signed Hughes to an extension either that year or the year before. we led the NFL in sacks. At the time, pass rush was very much not a need at all. But Whaley was looking for a WR to pair with his QB EJ. Hindsight is always 20/20 if you look at things based off this teams needs, not what this team needed 4-5 ears ago. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, GreggTX said: No way. We will have a top 5 or even top 3 pick in the next draft and 2 picks in the top 37. I'm sure we can get a great pair of day 1 starters if Beane gets it together. Yep. Or package the first rounder for a bunch of premium picks, like Indy did this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, Soda Popinski said: If I recall correctly we still had Mario Williams at that time, and we had just signed Hughes to an extension either that year or the year before. we led the NFL in sacks. At the time, pass rush was very much not a need at all. But Whaley was looking for a WR to pair with his QB EJ. Hindsight is always 20/20 if you look at things based off this teams needs, not what this team needed 4-5 ears ago. That's why teams should ALWAYS draft best player available, because you won't know your needs when that draft pick finally learns how to play. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 The season starts in a week. The asking price is going to crash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda Popinski Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 19 minutes ago, unbillievable said: That's why teams should ALWAYS draft best player available, because you won't know your needs when that draft pick finally learns how to play. The mistake was moving up at all, had they stayed put and drafted BPA they would have come away with ODB or Mike Evans without sacrificing a 1st round pick the following year. They still wouldn't have had a shot at Mack though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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