Bass’ and Martin’s Poor Performance

[KDIGGZ]

I would like to see Araiza signed and then you have all off-season to teach him how to hold, and then punter competition in training camp. You are paying Sam Martin a lot of money to be below average and you can probably get Araiza for league min, so if anything it makes financial sense

Edited December 11, 2023 by KDIGGZ

[QLBillsFan]

7 hours ago, Warcodered said:

Bass didn't do anything bad today, unless you're counting the decision not to attempt a 60+ yard kick right before the half against him?

Bass made all his kicks.. west did I miss. Also Martin had an incredible punt to swing field position on the 4th and 29. Has he been great-no. But that was clutch punt !!!

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I think Martin is done. He was good for us last year coming in right before the season but I honestly think his leg has gone. 

 

As for Bass I am pretty sure there is something physical going on. He is getting the distance he normally does on kick offs and the Bills have been noticeably more conservative in trying long FGs than other years. I am pretty certain that after the season we will find out he has been carrying some sort of injury that has lingered. 

Was it last year that he punted like 11 yards in a key game? He survived that so not sure. 

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Probably has less of a chance of a successful return though because you have fast guys on the field. If a 62 yard kick falls short you have a lot of big guys trying to prevent a return. 

 

Yeah that’s a fair point.

[TheWeatherMan]

7 hours ago, Doc said:

Kicking at the 40 is a 57 yard FG.  That's a low percentage kick.

Lower percentage than a Hail Mary? 

[finn]

7 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Bass would be 84% (about league average) if Jalen Carter doesn't make a great play on the blocked field goal which shows you why you need a larger sample size when evaluating kickers. 

 

Sam Martin I'm way more concerned about going down the stretch.  

Is there any reason the Bills (or any other team) can't sign Araiza? He might not be an accurate punter, but neither is Martin, who is more expensive that Araiza would be and doesn't have nearly as strong a leg. 

[zow2]

If there's a wind at his back in Orchard Park this weekend, that Aubrey kicker from Dallas may set a new NFL record.  He nailed a 62 yarder last night with plenty of room to spare indoors.  I can't imagine how far he can kick with 12-15mph wind assistance.

[GunnerBill]

47 minutes ago, DJB said:

With how strict the NFL has been on teams notifying player injuries I think you are off here with your assumption of a physical issue. 

 

I mean it wouldn't be the first time under this regime a player never turned up on the injury report then we found out after the year was working through an issue. There was definitely a case where that happened with wrist ligaments. I forget which player now. They never appeared on the injury report then had surgery after the season and said they had played with it most of the year. 

[CaptnCoke11]

I agree Martin needs to go after this year.  He’s simply not good.  Bass on the other hand will be fine.  He’s a good kicker 

[Carmel Corn]

8 hours ago, Zag20 said:

Not having him attempt a 62 yarder isn’t exactly an indicative of the staff’s confidence in him. That would be a top 10 all time Fg made. 

Meanwhile, Dallas has a rookie kicker who made several last night, including a 60 and 59 yarder, both of which could have easily covered 62 as well.  There are better kickers in the league is the reality.  

[Doc]

47 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

I would like to see Araiza signed and then you have all off-season to teach him how to hold, and then punter competition in training camp. You are paying Sam Martin a lot of money to be below average and you can probably get Araiza for league min, so if anything it makes financial sense

 

He knows how to hold.  That's why he won the punting job last year.  The problem is you have to wait at least until his civil trial is over.  And then would he even want to return?

 

32 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Lower percentage than a Hail Mary? 

 

I don't have the exact percentages.  All I know is both are low.

[KDIGGZ]

33 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

He knows how to hold.  That's why he won the punting job last year.  The problem is you have to wait at least until his civil trial is over.  And then would he even want to return?

He won the competition because they used a draft pick on him. I think the holding was still a work in progress

[VaMilBill]

5 hours ago, Bad Things said:

FFS.

1. We won the game

2.  Bass was 2/2 on FGs and 2/2 on extra points.

 

How the heck is that a "poor performance"?

What a miserable fanbase some of us have become.

Talking about the season as a whole 

[Doc]

8 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

He won the competition because they used a draft pick on him. I think the holding was still a work in progress

 

There were no issues with his holding.  And he was just a 6th round pick.  

[T master]

Yep they need to fire them all & start all over again 🙄 as a player that's been clutch for the most part when you run into a rough stretch that's what needs doing just get rid of them don't work through it despite anything done prior to having a bad few games . WE 

Edited December 11, 2023 by T master

[Doc]

25 minutes ago, T master said:

Yep they need to fire them all & start all over again 🙄 as a player that's been clutch for the most part when you run into a rough stretch that's what needs doing just get rid of them don't work through it despite anything done prior to having a bad few games . WE 

 

That or execute them...

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

He knows how to hold.  That's why he won the punting job last year.  The problem is you have to wait at least until his civil trial is over.  And then would he even want to return?

 

 

I don't have the exact percentages.  All I know is both are low.

Since 2010 60-62 yard FGs are over 35% to make, completing hail Mary under 10% likelihood 

[schoolhouserock]

Draft Tory Taylor.

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I mean it wouldn't be the first time under this regime a player never turned up on the injury report then we found out after the year was working through an issue. There was definitely a case where that happened with wrist ligaments. I forget which player now. They never appeared on the injury report then had surgery after the season and said they had played with it most of the year. 

 

It was Jerry Hughes.  He was on the injury report weekly for a "Vet Rest" day, then disclosed the ligament injury/surgery post season.  The NFL investigated and bought the Bills explanation that he got the day off from practice because as a vet, his body overall needed it (and not because of his wrist) but also said "going forward, err on the side of disclosure" (especially in the case of key players)

 

IMHO it just goes to show that a lot of players are playing through injuries that don't keep them out of practice, so are not considered serious enough to show up on the injury report but are none the less hindering.  In fact, to my understanding, players don't WANT to be on the injury report because then the opposing players will target them.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

It was Jerry Hughes.  He was on the injury report weekly for a "Vet Rest" day, then disclosed the ligament injury/surgery post season.  The NFL investigated and bought the Bills explanation that he got the day off from practice because as a vet, his body overall needed it (and not because of his wrist) but also said "going forward, err on the side of disclosure" (especially in the case of key players)

 

IMHO it just goes to show that a lot of players are playing through injuries that don't keep them out of practice, so are not considered serious enough to show up on the injury report but are none the less hindering.  In fact, to my understanding, players don't WANT to be on the injury report because then the opposing players will target them.

 

Thanks! I nearly tagged you in my post because I thought if anyone would remember who it was it would be you. Not sure if that is a compliment but feel free to take it as one 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

10 hours ago, VaMilBill said:

I think at this point we can all agree that our ST performance has been mediocre across the board. It lost us the game against the Jets, Broncos and gave up a huge return today against the Chiefs. 
 

Contributing to that is our kicking games. Sam Martin is averaging 44 YPP which is ranked at 32. Not good. The amount of times he’s had short punts or just not a lot of hang time this year seems countless. 
 

Tyler Bass is also not Bass-O-Matic. He’s got a 80% kicking average which is ranked 29th in the league. He’s missed some important kicks and to me he has been making it look pretty difficult. He also doesn’t seem to have the leg and I think it’s pretty apparent based on McD not trusting him. The amount of times we’ve punted from the opponents 40 this year seems like it’s our new norm. It makes me envious seeing the eagles kicker kick a 59 yard kick to tie the game in the rain. Or the Dallas kicker nail a 60 yarder tonight.
 

I think Bass is having some mental issues and probably needs to be replaced next year. I have little faith in him if he is kicking with the game on the line. 

 

Martin, hell yeah, time to hit the bricks buddy...

 

Bass? NOPE, I completely disagree... now is not the time to panic just because McD eschews a 62 yard field gold he struggled in a couple of games. He nailed his assignment yesterday, so it's all good so far IMHO...

 

Yes, I used the the word eschew... old school Al Michaels, baby!

[ngbills]

Agree on Martin. Has to go. 
 

I give Bass the pass. But it does seem like they don’t trust him kicking anything beyond 50, meanwhile many kickers around the league are hitting 55 plus yarders and Bass is one of the highest paid in the league. 

[VaMilBill]

1 hour ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

Martin, hell yeah, time to hit the bricks buddy...

 

Bass? NOPE, I completely disagree... now is not the time to panic just because McD eschews a 62 yard field gold he struggled in a couple of games. He nailed his assignment yesterday, so it's all good so far IMHO...

 

Yes, I used the the word eschew... old school Al Michaels, baby!

I mean he missed 2 against NE, 2 against Philly and 2 against the Giants. He makes those against NE and Philly our season is drastically different. Yeah he did what he needed to yesterday, but dude does not have the confidence of the coach IMO. 

[ngbills]

The kicking game in the NFL has drastically changed.

 

Kickers that have made 55+ yard field goals this year = 19

Kickers that have made 60+ yard field goals this year = 5

 

[Paup 1995MVP]

12 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

I didn't like that decision.  I'm guessing the percentage of getting 3 points from 62 yards is a lot better than a TD on a Hal Mary.  Bass has made plenty from 50 plus that would've likely been good from 62 before.  I know the kickers give the head coach a line of demarcation before the game but that would've been an appropriate time to ignore it. 

My son played w Bass at Georgia Southern.  Says he made 65 yarders in practice.  Said he had the leg to get it there.  Stupid move by McDermott not to try the FG.  It may have gone wide.  But it would have been long enough that they weren't getting a big return the other way.  

 

Overall I thought the team came out prepared and McDermott had a good defensive scheme.  There is only so much to work with given who is playing defense for us at this point.  The win last night should give us a big boost to keep the momentum going forward.  I see us matching up well with the Cowboys.  Josh Allen is very difficult to stop when he is on.  

[ALLinALLEN]

Martin is done. That punt from midfield or whatever at the start of the 4th Q was terrible. It was caught AND returned from their 15. Any other decent kicker has that corner kicked or down to the 5. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

11 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Bass is the fifth highest paid kicker in the league

Prior to this season he earned something like that. 

[boater]

If I recall correctly: the Bills cut Matt in late August. Being late in the preseason, there were very few punters left on the market. Hence, the desperate Bills ended up with the unwanted Sam Martin.

 

No good deed (cutting Araiza) goes unpunished (signing Martin).

 

The Bills need to find a new punter. I would support them bringing in Araiza given the facts that have emerged from the alleged incident. I know that will never happen.

[ColoradoBills]

Martin will most likely have stiff competition next season.  He has done a decent job as placeholder.  Reid Ferguson has not been bad but

I watch every snap on FGs, and XPs and he has had quite a few snaps too high this season.  Everything just doesn't look the same as it did

in the past.  Needs to be addressed in camp next year.

 

Bass isn't going anywhere.  However, I am a fan of having a "camp leg" come in for the summer and I wish they would do it next year.

Just having a young guy in the room with Bass, Ferguson and hopefully 2 punters will keep "friendly competition" going and gives a look

at a guy if someone is needed during the season because of injury.

 

IMO.  

[dave mcbride]

26 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

My son played w Bass at Georgia Southern.  Says he made 65 yarders in practice.  Said he had the leg to get it there.  Stupid move by McDermott not to try the FG.  It may have gone wide.  But it would have been long enough that they weren't getting a big return the other way.  

 

Overall I thought the team came out prepared and McDermott had a good defensive scheme.  There is only so much to work with given who is playing defense for us at this point.  The win last night should give us a big boost to keep the momentum going forward.  I see us matching up well with the Cowboys.  Josh Allen is very difficult to stop when he is on.  

"BTW, Bass made all of his warmup kicks until getting to about 45+ yards out—he for sure missed the 55 yarder he attempted, by kicking at least 5-10 yards short of the goal posts—I wonder if McD had this in mind when he decided a Hail Mary was preferable to trotting Bass out right before the half?"

 

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I mean it wouldn't be the first time under this regime a player never turned up on the injury report then we found out after the year was working through an issue. There was definitely a case where that happened with wrist ligaments. I forget which player now. They never appeared on the injury report then had surgery after the season and said they had played with it most of the year. 

Chris Hogan in his final season in Buffalo. He tore wrist ligaments and played through it. Never reported.

[34-78-83]

There's this thing in outdoor games called pre-game warmups where the kickers for both teams and their coaches get together and determine what maximum distance they are comfortable with in the conditions, and other factors (like endzone tunnel or no endzone tunnel, swirling winds or winds in a specific direction, etc.). It was talked about on the radio pre game that even Butker (a consensus great kicker with a big leg) was maxed out at about 55-57 for this game. It showed when Reid did not have him attempt a 59 yarder in the game. No, this is not yet another something you can nit-pick the sh%$ out of as a McD problem. Well, you can, but you would be wrong.

[gonzo1105]

I wouldn't classify Bass as being poor. He has been a solid NFL Kicker in his career. This year he has some missed but by no means has he been awful. Martin on the other hand woof he has been bad the last 4-5 weeks. 

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, 34-78-83 said:

There's this thing in outdoor games called pre-game warmups where the kickers for both teams and their coaches get together and determine what maximum distance they are comfortable with in the conditions, and other factors (like endzone tunnel or no endzone tunnel, swirling winds or winds in a specific direction, etc.). It was talked about on the radio pre game that even Butker (a consensus great kicker with a big leg) was maxed out at about 55-57 for this game. It showed when Reid did not have him attempt a 59 yarder in the game. No, this is not yet another something you can nit-pick the sh%$ out of as a McD problem. Well, you can, but you would be wrong.

yup. see the point above from someone who actually watched the pre-game warmups. No way was Bass making a 62 yarder. No effing way.

[John from Riverside]

I don’t get it. Did bass miss a field goal yesterday

[2003Contenders]

10 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

yup. see the point above from someone who actually watched the pre-game warmups. No way was Bass making a 62 yarder. No effing way.

Exactly. I am sure that McD also consulted with the ST coach and Bass to get an idea what the max would be. I am guessing they told him 50-55 yards, which is why the offense attempted a quick play with 5 seconds to go, which wasn't there. So the option with 1 second to go was a low percentage hail Mary or a kick that was beyond Bass' range (in yesterday's conditions), which was essentially 0%.

[Riverboat Ritchie]

I wonder why we are not giving Ariaza at least a workout and look?  He’s available no?  

[PayDaBill$]

What’s the punt GOD up to after he was Me Too’ed out of career?

 

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by PayDaBill$

[PromoTheRobot]

14 hours ago, ToGoGo said:

Man some fans can’t comprehend the up and down cycles of life and football. 

 

Kickers are like goalies in hockey.

[BigAl2526]

I wouldn't be surprised if Martin is gone after the season apart from cap considerations.  He clearly doesn't have a real big leg.  His forte is controlled punts being downed inside the 20 but he hasn't been anything special in that regard.  Matt Arraiza is out there.  I don't think Bass will be jettisoned.  He's got a big enough leg, yesterday's kickoffs not withstanding.  Even though the kickoffs were short, they were so high that most of them were fair caught.  The FG misses could be a short term struggle.

[HOUSE]

You guys would waive your mother after one cold breakfast 

[Mr. WEO]

Martin's fine.  Bills hardly punt--only 1 guy had fewer punts in 13 games.  almost 1/3 of his kicks inside the 20.