Do you wonder if the league is fixed?

[The Frankish Reich]

These posts are all over the place. Just skimming the pages, I get:

- Individual officials or even players may be gambling on the NFL and deliberately impacting outcomes

- There may be a conspiracy among the NFL and/or officials to favor certain teams and/or results of certain games. This may be to keep records bunched closely together to keep fans involved, or it may be to elevate certain teams to the playoffs and/or the Super Bowl

- NFL leaders may be talking to officials during the course of the game to encourage them to call more/fewer penalties against certain teams.

 

There is no evidence for any of this. All I see is that officiating is supposed to be bound by strict rules, but that the application of those rules in individual games is always subjective and plagued by apparent errors.

I'm not even seeing something like this from the NBA:

 

https://theathletic.com/5084943/2023/11/22/chris-paul-scott-foster-ejection/

 

Namely: NBA ref Scott Foster obviously has something against Chris Paul.

[Teddy KGB]

12 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

Yeah, Vegas is ruining pro football like it did boxing. Just watch it for entertainment, but have low expectations regarding the season's outcome. Support the USFL/XFL to at least pressure the NFL's monopoly.

lmao this is real ? 

[SouthernBuffaloBill]

There should be an investigation into these awful calls. It's league-wide. Coaches and players can't call them out in press conferences because they'll get fined. It's a corrupt system.

 

The spread is 3.5; Philly wins by 4. Coincidence? The NFL is a joke. #Fixed

[Alphadawg7]

LOL...No, absolutely not is the league "rigged".  The league has an immense value over $100 Billion dollars, and that value is predicated on its integrity.  There is abosolutely no way the Billionaire owners or anyone else is going to let the league gamble on rigging games or affecting outcomes and jeopardize the value of the league and the multi-billion dollar teams owned by those billionaires.  

 

Now, the officiating is terrible...no doubt.  There are things that must be addressed...no doubt.  And there are always possible scenarios where refs don't call games straight for personal reasons (gambling, like/dislike of teams/players, etc) in any sport, there is no way to eliminate that possibility, only the ability to act swiftly when discovered.  

 

But I will say, the refs Sunday called that game like they all bet their house on Philly.  It was that egregious.  But I think it was just another case of very poor officiating.  

[nedboy7]

Of course not.  I mean there is hardly any evidence of fixing sports thru history in any league.  And with millions of dollars on the line I dont see any incentive to fixing games.  We all know the world is run by billionaires of integrity with the utmost respect for the game and fans. 

By the way.... "poor officiating" is the exact narrative you would want to create to be able to wipe away any doubt about why a certain game is called the way it is.  But the NFL clearly takes this issue seriously and trains and hires full time refs for their Billions of dollars of investments. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by nedboy7

[The Red King]

I think part of it for me is that while officiating has been bad for awhile, this season seems quite a bit worse then last season.  And I don't neccisarily think it's a case of this team or that team overall, but how the league wants things to play out week to week based on trends, ratings and gambling lines.

 

I'm not saying I know something for certain.  Just saying things don't look right this season, all around.

[DrBob806]

2 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Why should homefeld be important ?

 

Just rig the playoff game to get them into the SB

Bingo. Let's analyze one of the NFL darling teams if we may....

 

It's weird to me. Back in the 70s when the Steelers had a dynasty' they got many many favorable calls. Their D was tough as nails, promoted as such. They damn near killed Kenny Stabler a few times, but that was deemed "ok." My hunch is the NFL wasn't ok with Miami being the team to beat. 

 

Fast forward to the 1990s, Steelers host 5 AFC Title games, only win 1. 2000s, they "win" the SB vs Seattle in the most biased officiated game in SB history. Blatantly obvious that was rigged. 

 

Fast forward to today's NFL, TJ Watt does whatever he wants, rarely penalized. Punches QBs, twists linemen's legs....yet his team sucks. I'm not a gambler, but my guess is Draft Kings, etc., has player odds on him weekly. 

 

So, same team, different outcomes, different scenarios, different players. Kind of weird, isn't it?

[TheFunPolice]

I don't think it's "rigged" in the WWE sense where Roger is a McMahon figure drawing up a script backstage. 

 

But it would be SO EASY to sway a game. Just throw one timely offensive holding penalty or illegal contact or defensive holding. 

 

By timely I don't mean "in a big moment." It can be as simple as wiping out a 12 yard run in the 1st quarter to take a team from the 30 to the 18 in the Red Zone. Instead of 1st and 10 at the 18, it's 1st and 20 back at the 40 yard line. You can call holding on any play, as they say. 

 

That changes the entire complexity of that drive for the offense. Playcalling, strategy, everything. Ditto for the defense. 

 

Suddenly it's a passing down and an OL flinches knowing an all out blitz is coming.

 

Now it's 1st and 25 at the 45. 

 

Probably takes points off the board, and most of these games are close. Best of all, nobody will even remember it by the end of the game. 

[dickleyjones]

14 hours ago, The Red King said:

(Please don't merge this with the thread complaining about the Bills/Eagles officiating.  This is different, with wider scope, and not limited to the Bills.)

 

There have always been suspicions that the NFL is fixed, but this year seems almost blatent.  There have been a ton, a ton of badly officiated games this season, and not just involving the Bills.  The NFL is in bed with Vegas and the gambling apps, that much is fact.

 

So, my question is, what do you believe?  I don't believe the league is outright scripted.  But I do believe they have preferences, and are not afraid to unleash the officials to get the outcomes they want, based on trends.

 

I hate to be that guy.  I hate to think about conspiracy theories.  But the officiating all around the league has been laughably bad/questionable the whole season.

No. And if so, to what end?

[TheFunPolice]

I think it comes down to the highly subjective nature of many penalties, how emotionally charged the games are because there are so few per year, and how close the games are so every drive matters. 

 

The league has nothing to gain from choosing winners and losers. Aside from 2 superstar QBs meeting in the Super Bowl, or some other unusual circumstance it makes little difference to the league who wins. If the Falcons and Steelers somehow made it through this year's playoffs people are still going to watch that Super Bowl by the millions. 

 

Individual refs might be swayed by circumstance though, even if it's not in an attempt to be corrupt. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by TheFunPolice

[Big Turk]

16 hours ago, The Red King said:

(Please don't merge this with the thread complaining about the Bills/Eagles officiating.  This is different, with wider scope, and not limited to the Bills.)

 

There have always been suspicions that the NFL is fixed, but this year seems almost blatent.  There have been a ton, a ton of badly officiated games this season, and not just involving the Bills.  The NFL is in bed with Vegas and the gambling apps, that much is fact.

 

So, my question is, what do you believe?  I don't believe the league is outright scripted.  But I do believe they have preferences, and are not afraid to unleash the officials to get the outcomes they want, based on trends.

 

I hate to be that guy.  I hate to think about conspiracy theories.  But the officiating all around the league has been laughably bad/questionable the whole season.

 

I mean after watching the Browns-Colts game where they literally forced the Browns to score by handing them something like 15 chances to score from inside the 10 yard line with 4 defensive penalties on the Colts, one nullifying a turnover by the Colts, nothing would surprise me.

 

I don't think I ever remember refs factoring in late in the game like they have this year so often...every game this year seemingly has late defensive penalties called that help a team drive down and score.

[KingBoots8]

 

Tom Grossi (National Treasure) has summed it up perfectly for us.

[bobobonators]

I really appreciate threads like this. It makes me realize how many of you live in an alternate tinfoil reality and need to be blocked. 

[Búfalo Blanco]

Here’s my opinion.. Do I think the NFL is “rigged”? No.. That type of vast conspiracy wouldn’t remain quiet.

 

Do I think there are certain games which the NFL attempts to keep close by using officiating? Absolutely.. The intent to create parity is pretty obvious at times. 
 

Do I think they meddle with every single game? No.. again, that’s too wide a conspiracy to keep quiet. Do I think certain games they attempt to nudge with penalties to keep things close or occasionally try to “push” an outcome how they wish it to go? Yes, sometimes.. not always. Whether that’s for Vegas/gambling, etc. or for favorable outcomes, to create certain playoff scenarios, I’m not sure.. but I do believe they occasionally attempt to meddle with outcomes. Might not always work to plan, but it is sometimes attempted.. 

[PromoTheRobot]

If it is fixed, the league ought to be helping Pegula out. A Super Bowl win would sell a lot of PSLs.

[Heavy Kevi]

I don't believe the NFL is fixed.

 

But I do believe refs carry personal bias into their officiating decisions.

 

It's certainly possible (maybe even likely), that certain refs have been actively corrupt at some point or another.

 

But successfully covering up a larger scheme seems unlikely.

[Nelius]

Logged in to see 8 negs because I think the refs are too dumb to completely fix things. Relax astromen. Good lord this board loves a conspiracy.

[billsfan714]

Im not a Cowherd fan, but he touched on how ridiculous this is.   Yeah the league is conspiring to keep teams like Dallas out of the superbowl for the past 25 years or so.  Huge difference between bad officiating and a conspiracy.   Did some of you watch the end of the Giants game on this board?

[Dancing Fool]

6 hours ago, Nelius said:

Logged in to see 8 negs because I think the refs are too dumb to completely fix things. Relax astromen. Good lord this board loves a conspiracy.

I appreciate this perspective. 

 

"The majority clearly disagrees with me... you are all spacy conspiracy theorists!"

 

It is legitimately very helpful to understand where somebody like yourself is coming from. Thanks for the insight. 

[LabattBlue]

Run on tinfoil.  Supply chain going to be a problem. Stock up now.  

[Stuartjohn]

20 hours ago, The Red King said:

I think part of it for me is that while officiating has been bad for awhile, this season seems quite a bit worse then last season.  And I don't neccisarily think it's a case of this team or that team overall, but how the league wants things to play out week to week based on trends, ratings and gambling lines.

 

I'm not saying I know something for certain.  Just saying things don't look right this season, all around.

I feel it is rigged. I gamble for fun and Watching how the over and unders always fall on 1/2 point wins or losses is uncanny. How about how the Buffalo line in Sunday night lowered to 2.5 underdog - look @ final score-Bills lose by 1/2.point!

[boyst]

11 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

If it is fixed, the league ought to be helping Pegula out. A Super Bowl win would sell a lot of PSLs.

the money is in the TV licensing. people like seeing the bills and will tune in. the bills, like the 9ers are turning into the anti hero

[LifeLongBillsFan]

On 11/26/2023 at 9:30 PM, Billever76 said:

Once vegas got involved it's absolutely a certainty it's skewed and teams are being guided by the refs and its being masqueraded as human error ....the refs are swaying games big time and it's obvious

How can't it be done? A few bad officials being paid $$$$ absolutely can make it happen....you get 6 or so refs throw a boatload of hush money at them and instruct them what to do....in the nfl a few key bad calls no calls are usually enough to change outcomes

and sometimes your star quarterback is told to throw a few badly timed picks - or say 3 in one game 

[Strethor]

The league is heavily influenced. You can blindfold refs and reach the same result. The highest paid refs are on TV, there's no initiative to clean up what we see week to week

[LifeLongBillsFan]

20 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

LOL...No, absolutely not is the league "rigged".  The league has an immense value over $100 Billion dollars, and that value is predicated on its integrity.  There is abosolutely no way the Billionaire owners or anyone else is going to let the league gamble on rigging games or affecting outcomes and jeopardize the value of the league and the multi-billion dollar teams owned by those billionaires.  

 

Now, the officiating is terrible...no doubt.  There are things that must be addressed...no doubt.  And there are always possible scenarios where refs don't call games straight for personal reasons (gambling, like/dislike of teams/players, etc) in any sport, there is no way to eliminate that possibility, only the ability to act swiftly when discovered.  

 

But I will say, the refs Sunday called that game like they all bet their house on Philly.  It was that egregious.  But I think it was just another case of very poor officiating.  

so explain how teams cover the spread in the 4th quarter over and over even though they completely dominated the rest of the game?

Anyone who gambles on the NFL is a fool 

[FilthyBeast]

There's a lot of anecdotal evidence out there that the NFL (and all pro sports) are tampered with to a certain degree. In fact if you into conspiracy theories there's at least one video out out there of an insider confessing to point shaving and blatant rigging in the NFL specifically going back at least 20+ years.

 

And you do have to wonder if there is a real 'script' so to speak just like pro wresting, if that's the case I really wonder why Buffalo was chosen to be on the receiving end of so many horrific losses unless they will eventually be 'rewarded' with multiple SB wins or something for playing this part now.

 

Also as far as the vegas aspect, really have to wonder why they didn't have the Bills win because seems like they would have made a fortune on this game and cost bettors millions for putting their money on Philly.

[Aussie Joe]

1 hour ago, LifeLongBillsFan said:

so explain how teams cover the spread in the 4th quarter over and over even though they completely dominated the rest of the game?

Anyone who gambles on the NFL is a fool 

And plenty of times they don’t cover…

[tomur67]

If there is a conspiracy going on with the officiating, I don't think it's coming from the NFL itself.  It would make more sense that Las Vegas and the booking industry who have millions of dollars to win or lose depending on each game are the ones to blame.  For instance, in this last game, if millions of dollars were bet on the Bills to win ( and I think many people thought that was a good bet ) It makes sense to put a few thousand dollars in a few pockets  and not pay the millions to the bettors if the Bills win.  I'm sure that it doesn't happen every game, but if it's a big game with lots of money being is being wagered, I wouldn't be surprised.

[1onemangang7]

On 11/26/2023 at 11:27 PM, The Red King said:

(Please don't merge this with the thread complaining about the Bills/Eagles officiating.  This is different, with wider scope, and not limited to the Bills.)

 

There have always been suspicions that the NFL is fixed, but this year seems almost blatent.  There have been a ton, a ton of badly officiated games this season, and not just involving the Bills.  The NFL is in bed with Vegas and the gambling apps, that much is fact.

 

So, my question is, what do you believe?  I don't believe the league is outright scripted.  But I do believe they have preferences, and are not afraid to unleash the officials to get the outcomes they want, based on trends.

 

I hate to be that guy.  I hate to think about conspiracy theories.  But the officiating all around the league has been laughably 

 

 

 

The Bills made this guys list a couple times. Be careful. It might really change your Sundays if you watch enough. Open at your own risk 

On 11/26/2023 at 11:27 PM, The Red King said:

(Please don't merge this with the thread complaining about the Bills/Eagles officiating.  This is different, with wider scope, and not limited to the Bills.)

 

There have always been suspicions that the NFL is fixed, but this year seems almost blatent.  There have been a ton, a ton of badly officiated games this season, and not just involving the Bills.  The NFL is in bed with Vegas and the gambling apps, that much is fact.

 

So, my question is, what do you believe?  I don't believe the league is outright scripted.  But I do believe they have preferences, and are not afraid to unleash the officials to get the outcomes they want, based on trends.

 

I hate to be that guy.  I hate to think about conspiracy theories.  But the officiating all around the league has been laughably 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by 1onemangang7
Duplicate

[bmur66]

Players and refs are not above being influenced. There is big money involved. Anyone that thinks it is not a possibility doesn’t live in the real world. But hey. It’s for entertainment purposes only.

With that being said, I still think there are people out there giving it all they got and I appreciate it.

Edited November 30, 2023 by bmur66

[BillStime]

If the league were fixed - wouldn’t every team have at least one Super Bowl win?
 

[1onemangang7]

8 minutes ago, bmur66 said:

Players and refs are not above being influenced. There is big money involved. Anyone that thinks it is not a possibility doesn’t live in the real world. But hey. It’s for entertainment purposes only.

I can agree with that.  I'm not gonna knock how an individual uses it for his entertainment whether gambling, live games, or however.  I think if it was completely legit all the losing gamblers would be winners and all the plush gambling houses wouldn't exist. It's a high dollar, political influencing machine. I mean we all pretty much know who are the better teams.   How much rigaroni? Idk and who really does. I think some teams act stupid purposely. Not to mention Beanes choice of personnel, but a simple example is the Chargers coach continually making choices any 5th grade fan can tell is dumb move.

[1onemangang7]

There's an interestingly worded article on the front page using the word wrestle in the title.  EPA is a trendy stat and gamblers focus on, just like the trendy term analytics before it. In the 90s you punted. In this article, McDermott wows us with parity... yet we all see the LB's rostered save Milano and already know there isn't much chance of stopping the run. EPA, though gives a real time filler to the talking heads, a real explanation to the Bills' mediocre squad despite the undisputed strength at QB. The infatuation of the Bills brass for the undersized athlete is by design. That's the irritating part for me. That's why I encourage using a voice to let Beane and the boys know you have eyes. Boo like you're from Philly. They'll give you a winner.

[Nextmanup]

On 11/27/2023 at 12:46 AM, thewookie1 said:

I don't think its fixed but rather has an agenda.

 

There are certain teams week to week/season to season they want to see succeed and the refs are given the tools to manipulate.

 

This year they want KC and Philly to have a Kelce Rematch with Taylor Swift there. Now if KC or Philly fails even with friendly officiating they'll likely move to different narrative to play with but there's certainly some bias.

 

 

That would explain the one sided calls in our game vs. Philly, and I'm not saying that as a Bills fan.  We got some calls, they got calls, we suffered from bad calls, they suffered, but it broke way more in Philly's favor.

 

 

 

[Zerovoltz]

Yeah....it's scripted.

 

Nothing the NFL Loves more than having the Chiefs be a contender year in and year out while BOTH NEW YORK TEAMS SUCK, the Washington team sucks, the LA teams suck, the Chicago teams sucks....and Cincy has been good...the Bills (despite the lack of a SB) are a top team....what a script!  Let's make are smallest, LEAST populous and diffiuclt to market teams, the best ones out there.  And let's make sure the three biggest markets are horrible.  

 

Officiating sucks for everyone.  

[Billy Claude]

34 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

Yeah....it's scripted.

 

Nothing the NFL Loves more than having the Chiefs be a contender year in and year out while BOTH NEW YORK TEAMS SUCK, the Washington team sucks, the LA teams suck, the Chicago teams sucks....and Cincy has been good...the Bills (despite the lack of a SB) are a top team....what a script!  Let's make are smallest, LEAST populous and diffiuclt to market teams, the best ones out there.  And let's make sure the three biggest markets are horrible.  

 

Officiating sucks for everyone.  

 

Not to mention Jerry Jones being perfectly happy not being in a Super Bowl for 30 years.

 

Also when do they tell new owners that all the outcomes are predetermined?  Is David Tepper OK with this?  Why don't any of the new owners sue the NFL when they find out about this?

 

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Billy Claude

[Eastport bills]

The league is not fixed, it would take too many people who would never be able to sustain confidentiality. The gambling interests would never allow the golden goose to be compromised. The thing that gives the appearance of impropriety is the increased element of incompetence by part time officiating teams who routinely blow calls on plays that aren’t reviewable, without consequence.  Hochuli’s team should be exposed for incorrect interpretation of rules and be scrutinized going forward with the prospect of being left out of playoff participation. Unfortunately the union insulates these bad refs from punishment. This trend is eroding the credibility of a product that generates 100s of billions.

[finn]

First, of course refs are biased; they're human and respond to all sorts of unconsciously perceived factors, especially crowd noise and expectations. Read Scorecasting if you want a real eye-opener. I have no doubt that the bias is deliberate, too, like Hochuli and his gang in the Philly game. That kind of bias can spread rapidly if there are no consequences, which appears to be the case. The NFL reflexively protects the refs--fines for players and coaches who criticize them, always defending their decisions, etc. Maybe if the refs get out of hand, they're reined in a bit; I doubt it's a coincidence that the cascade of flags stopped at halftime. But otherwise, it looks like the league doesn't care much on that level.

 

Then there's the money factor. I have no evidence whatsoever for corruption, but it seems pretty naïve to think that gamblers with everything at stake wouldn't find a way to influence people in such a powerful position to change the outcome of games. So so easy to do, so easy to cover up. If I represented WNY in Congress, I would call for an investigation. Then I would watch all the powerful players jump into action to derail it. 

 

On the macro level... Not sure. Seems way too risky. A scandal is one of the only developments that could kill the Golden Goose. 

[PatsFanNH]

On 11/28/2023 at 9:23 AM, Stuartjohn said:

I feel it is rigged. I gamble for fun and Watching how the over and unders always fall on 1/2 point wins or losses is uncanny. How about how the Buffalo line in Sunday night lowered to 2.5 underdog - look @ final score-Bills lose by 1/2.point!

Roflmbo that’s Vegas job! They been good at it since the mob ran the place.  They do 1/2 points so there is no push.  There is almost no way to rig something without it leaking out esp with so many people involved.

[Dancing Fool]

53 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Roflmbo that’s Vegas job! They been good at it since the mob ran the place.  They do 1/2 points so there is no push.  There is almost no way to rig something without it leaking out esp with so many people involved.

Vegas odds makers are really good at predicting the future ever since they were run by the mob. 

 

That said, there is no way they (the group that has been consistently skilled at knowing exactly what the future would bring since it was run by an organization that would expressly do illegal things) would be able to possibly cheat. 

 

Getting hit with a heavy dose of Poe's Law here.