Who was behind the decision to fire Dorsey?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

 

 

Sign me up for this.

[Cash]

McD for sure. Look at his immediate postgame comments from the last few game - especially last week. Contrast those with the ones from earlier in the year. He’s been unhappy with the offense for a while, getting unhappier every week, and it showed after the game last week. McD usually goes out of his way to never criticize anyone publicly. 
 

IMO McD hasn’t been shy about telling Dorsey this stuff in private, and Dorsey knew the Broncos game was his last chance.  McD remains overly loyal, and probably gave Dorsey one chance too many. But I’m glad he pulled the trigger now instead of waiting for the bye. The offense has no excuse for being this disjointed every game. 

[Steve O]

7 minutes ago, wppete said:

If this continues this season it’s time for McDermott to be fired. 

I mean, 2 years ago we can't hold on for 13 seconds. Last year give up a touchdown while trying to execute victory formation kneel down, which would have given us home field advantage, facing the winner of the chiefs/bengals game instead of the chiefs facing the winner of bills/bengals. This year we don't have the correct personnel on the field after 2 timeouts when it was clear the other team was just taking a knee setting up for a field goal. At what point do you put the blame on the head coach.

[Solomon Grundy]

17 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

Nobody's saying that, but what does McDermott have to gain by lying about this particular instance? 

😳

I blame Dan Orlovsky 😎

[machine gun kelly]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agreed. Totally reactionary. This place would fire or cut someone every week. 

 

 

On the question, it is a good one. We know that the Pegulas were integral in the last OC change we made in-season when they fired Greg Roman two weeks into 2016 - after he had taken the offense from 26th to 13th in his one year in charge. They met with players and then Rex and the upshot was Roman was out. 

 

I don't rule out that Terry involved himself again but I suspect ultimately McDermott with counsel from Beane is the right answer. 

Agreed GB, nothing as important as an OC firing doesn’t include the Pegulas, Beane and McD.  We’ll never know and no one is going to talk about it later.

 

It’s a futile discussion as it will stay behind jd closed doors.  It’s the same in business.  Unfortunately, I’ve had to let people go, but not until I’ve done everything I could to coach them up, and then it’s up to them.

[Avisan]

6 minutes ago, boyst said:

1) prior to the Broncos game - it was not. this would seem to mean that he was not as good as Cook who had over 9 ypc. murray had a solid game but his 4.8 ypc was his best (which is good) against the giants. excluding the broncos game he averaged 3.5 ypc.  Cook was at 4.7ypc.

 

2) i don't follow the latter statement because i would need examples where you have read something you disagree with and then tell me why. also, i don't know who you are... so i cannot return critique or offer any criticism of any individual thoughts you may have had. please, if you're going to try to insult me, make it worth my time and don't waste it.

 

so, yeah...BRO...do better.

Your entire post is predicated on Murray being a poor runner and hampering our run game vs. the Broncos, thus making having Cook sit for a couple of series an indefensible move

 

This is demonstrably not the case

 

I don't know who you are, either, and I don't care.  Your posts have stood out to me the last couple of days both in their absurdity and their absolute certainty that the absurd perspective presented is true.  I'm not arguing with you.  An argument implies a clash of two perspectives that each party respectively insists to be valid.  This isn't an invitation to critique my thoughts or posts in a mutual battle of wits, although nothing is stopping you from clicking on my profile to find something to complain about.  This is me gently suggesting you identify the facts and form a perspective based on them, instead of forming a perspective and making up facts based on it.

[Fleezoid]

Wasn't it last week where someone asked McDermott at his press conference if he was considering making a change at OC? (don't remember how the question was phrased) McDermott's answer was a flat out "no." I guess he had to answer that way, but how things change in a week. 

[May Day 10]

5 hours ago, 14774 said:

I think it was all McClappy, trying to save his own behind.

 

I do not believe this is accurate, although it was my first reaction.

 

It would make sense for McDermott to save that bullet for the end if he is in self preservation.

 

I also don't think it was the players because 2 key non-offensive coaching functions were directly responsible for them losing the game (12 men and Cover 0).

 

It was likely Pegula demanding something be done.

[wppete]

 

[Freddie's Dead]

McDummy was just trying to save his ass.

[The Jokeman]

I'm thinking McDermott read the locker room and while he made the decision I think he made it based on players actions/reactions to things. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 hours ago, The Wiz said:

I actually think it stems from last year in the divisional round.  

 

Diggs storming out then and the stuff that happened at the beginning of the year makes me think the players didn't believe in the offensive game plan.

 

Josh looking lost on the sideline.

 

The players have no confidence and that's a reflection of coaching.  Then they run the same mesh play over and over again that has been resulted in probably half of Allen's INTs when all they needed to do was run the ball.

 

Also having a players only meeting for the offense doesn't show a lot of faith in what they are being told to do.

 

I don't hate passing on 3rd and 1 if you plan to go for it on 4th and 1.  I don't hate passing on 4th and 1.  I do hate running a damn mesh play on 4th and 1, with no PA, and allen standing in the pocket.  It doesn't suit our strengths, and its a yard.  

[juno999]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Yes, there is more than one issue. He took steps to solve one of them. Is that not something he should do? 

 

And for accuracy sake: he didn't fire the ST coach after 13 seconds. His contract was up and wasn't brought back or he decided to leave. There's a difference. And for the record, I do hope the same standard is used for Smiley and he is replaced at some point. 

 

In promoting Dorsey, in my view the mistake he made was taking too much of Josh's preference to heart. Once Allen said he wanted Dorsey there wasn't even what I would consider a real search. They met the Rooney Rule, interviewed 2 other guys that equally had no experience and pressed on with Josh's choice. 

Personally, I thought Dorsey was going to be fired after the season because in season firings rarely accomplish much imo.  In firing Dorsey, McD is admitting to a mistake he made and he has now corrected it.  We agree on McD needing to fire Smiley which is another mistake by McD. 

 

McD has made very questionable if not bad hiring decisions.  As many have pointed out, McD has made several questionable decisions on game day.  Now he  has added a new wrinkle of benching Cook for an extended time after he fumbled.  I get benching him for a few plays or the rest of that possession.  I think it was excessive and hurt the offense.

 

McD doesn't hold himself accountable and he has lost and/or is losing the locker room for it.  McD never owned 13 seconds.  All he had to do is say  "I ***** up."  But he never did.

 

McD is feeling the heat.  High expectations for this team and they look bad.

 

[DrDawkinstein]

Dorsey was the main one behind it, by continuing to trot out a predictable, bumbling, pop warner level Offense.

 

Watching that Denver game, it was clear as day. After weeks of floundering and an offensive players meeting, this was the make or break week to turn it around. Go out there, start fast, and show us you can run an offense like a half-competent professional.

 

Nope!

 

Had to go.

 

So Dorsey did this to himself. The fans and media were all over it. McD saw the need to change. And Terry signed off on it.

 

The best team work Dorsey has managed to produce in his short tenure.

[Billsatlastin2018]

ME!

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

McD was the driving force behind the decision

 

Beane/Pegula signed off on it

 

Players actions played a part in McD's decisionn

[SectionC3]

2 hours ago, BillMafia716ix said:

Listening to Sean McDermott presser after the game. I knew Dorsey was toast. 

Good point.  Defense plays “butts” off.  Said it a couple of times.  He was blaming the offense for that one.  Can’t change the players now, but can throw the coordinator overboard.  So that’s what he did.  

[boyst]

48 minutes ago, Avisan said:

Your entire post is predicated on Murray being a poor runner and hampering our run game vs. the Broncos, thus making having Cook sit for a couple of series an indefensible move

 

This is demonstrably not the case

 

I don't know who you are, either, and I don't care.  Your posts have stood out to me the last couple of days both in their absurdity and their absolute certainty that the absurd perspective presented is true.  I'm not arguing with you.  An argument implies a clash of two perspectives that each party respectively insists to be valid.  This isn't an invitation to critique my thoughts or posts in a mutual battle of wits, although nothing is stopping you from clicking on my profile to find something to complain about.  This is me gently suggesting you identify the facts and form a perspective based on them, instead of forming a perspective and making up facts based on it.

that's a lot of writing. i didn't read beyond like 3 sentences.

[Fan in Chicago]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Imagine how exciting it would be if fans voted off one coach or player every week?

 

Can we do that to posters on this board too? 

[John from Riverside]

I believe that it was McDermott

 

But he would’ve said that it was him even if it wasn’t

[DuckyBoys]

well if they dont turn it around he's next  Ultimately he is responsible   Not helping his case is injuries some bad player moves by Beane and Josh Allen not being able to curtail the turnovers  Nothing to be done about player moves we made and injuries but time  Our hope is Joe Brady is able to call a more qb friendly offense and settle Allen down

[FilthyBeast]

My conspiracy theory (which I hope is true for specific reasons) is Terry Pegula forced the issue, if anything to send a subtle message to Allen, Beane and McDummy.

 

Because if there was ever time for him to be a meddlesome owner it's now and can't imagine this cat is happy watching a team with one of the highest payrolls in the NFL flounder like this especially after he gave both Beane and McD unwarranted extensions.

 

So if I'm remotely right this will also be why he's likely already exploring replacement options when as the inevitable plays out in this meaningless string of 7 games left in a wasted season.

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, FilthyBeast said:

My conspiracy theory (which I hope is true for specific reasons) is Terry Pegula forced the issue, if anything to send a subtle message to Allen, Beane and McDummy.

 

Because if there was ever time for him to be a meddlesome owner it's now and can't imagine this cat is happy watching a team with one of the highest payrolls in the NFL flounder like this especially after he gave both Beane and McD unwarranted extensions.

 

So if I'm remotely right this will also be why he's likely already exploring replacement options when as the inevitable plays out in this meaningless string of 7 games left in a wasted season.

 

I'm not a betting man, and even I would bet big money that Pegula has already reached out to the same consulting service he used to find McDermott.

[26TrapDraw]

4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Fans would fire someone after every loss if they could. 

You know what that insolence will not be tolerated. You’re Fired!!!

[Peter]

Clearly, McClappy fed Dorsey to the lions to deflect from his own shortcomings.

 

Karma is a B word though.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, Peter said:

Clearly, McClappy fed Dorsey to the lions to deflect from his own shortcomings.

 

Karma is a B word though.

Again, firing someone has the opposite affect. It brings attention to shortcomings.

[Peter]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Again, firing someone has the opposite affect. It brings attention to shortcomings.

 

Indeed. In fact, although I have never been a big McCoach fan, I have not wanted the Bills to get rid of him until yesterday.

 

My comment related to McC's motivation. 

 

I am done with McClappy. I cannot bear listening to his BS anymore. It is a shame that the Bills extended his contract. It is time for him to go.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

3 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

Indeed. In fact, although I have never been a big McCoach fan, I have not wanted the Bills to get rid of him until yesterday.

 

My comment related to McC's motivation. 

 

I am done with McClappy. I cannot bear listening to his BS anymore. It is a shame that the Bills extended his contract. It is time for him to go.

I’ve found myself tired of a lot of things this year. I think some players and coaches have been here too long.

[LABILLBACKER]

Let me preface this by saying Dorsey clearly struggled these last 2 years and needed to be replaced.  But he had nothing to do with 12 men, or 13 Sec, or blowing that late 16-0 lead in Houston.  Sean has his own issues and it's well documented.  His in game management and preparation is inconsistent.  His concerted decision to emphasize D over O these last 6 years has absolutely effected our offense. " Josh you go out and be Superman while I continue to build my Defense"....this team from Day1 needed to be built around it's best player.  And other than Diggs, that didn't happen until last season with Torrence & Kincaid.  Most of the offensive fa's brought in by Beane have been useless.  I'm encouraged that we'll have a new set of eyes running the offense.  But I'm not naive enough to ignore more underlying issues with McDermott.  

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Again, firing someone has the opposite affect. It brings attention to shortcomings.

Well with Dennison, Farwell, Frazier and now Dorsey, Sean's had 4 bites at that apple. When does it actually "starts with me" kick in?

[Alphadawg7]

Why do people complicate things and try and create narratives?
 

McD said straight out it was his decision alone, stop trying to invent new narratives when they straight tell you the answer.  

And it was a move that needed to happen given how poorly the offense is playing and how inconstant the offense has been in scoring points.  When a super power offense on a team with SB expectations averages about 8-10 points LESS per week for 6 straight weeks (and it’s actually 14 points less than the offense avg first 4 weeks) causing you to have a losing record against the weakest stretch of opponents on your schedule…you lose your job.  That is the NFL.  

Don’t like it, then don’t suck and do a better job.  Dorsey earned this firing as he has been unable to fix whatever is holding the offense back as this offense has shown for a long time it can score a lot of points.  Dorsey could not get it back to scoring points consistently and Dorsey was let go.  It’s not rocket science here.  

Edited November 15, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[Buffalo_Stampede]

5 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Well with Dennison, Farwell, Frazier and now Dorsey, Sean's had 4 bites at that apple. When does it actually "starts with me" kick in?

Anything before Josh doesn’t count. So I don’t even count Dennison. No one wanted to be OC of that offense.

 

Frazier didn’t get fired.

 

[AmishRifle]

My opinion, McDermott had already made the decision to fire Dorsey before the post game press conference.  Go back and listen to how he answers the questions regarding the offense.  Look at his body language as he’s talking.  He had already made the decision as we was talking to the media.  Not a doubt in my mind.

[Fleezoid]

God made the decision. He's giving the Bills a glimmer of hope only to rip our hearts another way in the future. 

 

I don't think it's safe to stand next to me. 

[Since1981]

McC made the decision alone. He may suck as a playoff NFL HC but he's not stupid. McD had no choice. It doesn't mean this is over. Come January if nothing dramatic changes, Terry will be forced to step in. 

[Scott7975]

Obviously this forum, the media, and twitter

[Kaenon]

10 hours ago, MarkKelso'sHelmet said:

McDermott claimed it was him and him alone. But I wonder if that's the truth. Your thoughts?

He did say something on his interview with the media day yesterday that it was "tough to share that news with [Ken Dorsey]"

 

Couldn't tell if that was a lapsus linguae and it was someone else's decision despite saying in the same interview that it was his decision, or if that was just how he worded it.

Idk!

[Since1981]

2 yrs ago--McD had both a capable OC and capable DC (and he still sucked at in-game)

2023 he has neither capable lieutenants.

Further condemnation?? He won't/can't/didn't retain capable coordinators--Makes him even worse at in-game, planning, etc.

[Warcodered]

16 minutes ago, Kaenon said:

He did say something on his interview with the media day yesterday that it was "tough to share that news with [Ken Dorsey]"

 

Couldn't tell if that was a lapsus linguae and it was someone else's decision despite saying in the same interview that it was his decision, or if that was just how he worded it.

Idk!

After the Bengals game I wondered if this was what he wanted to do but still needed permission to from ownership which is maybe what he got after this latest cluster*****, who knows. Either way though McDermott was never not going to find it to be tough to share that news with Dorsey, everything we've seen about him indicates he cares a lot about his players and coaches. Firing one of them would have been a pretty bad day.

[MikePJ76]

Trevon Diggs.  He is a new hire in the personnel department.