We need to save Josh Allen by any means necessary (the fire is gone)

[Einstein]

The Josh Allen we are seeing right now, is not who we saw the first 5 years off his career.

 

Even when he had bad stretches under Daboll, he still would come out fired up the next series. He was still ready to risk it all.

 

His fire is GONE. When he scores now, he just jogs off the field.

 

Example: After we took the lead with 2 minutes to go last night, he started to just jog off the field (zero celebration). Spencer Brown tried to get him excited and lifted him into the air. 

 

Three years ago he’d be screaming his head off and amping everyone up. Now his facial express to being hoisted after a go-ahead TD is the face of someone who looks like they’re battling depression. And no, this is not a deceptive screenshot - this is how he looked the entire post TD celebration.

 

 

 

The fire is gone and, Simon, I apologize for the salty language, but that friggin terrifies me!!!

 

Where has this gone?

 

 

And this?

 

 

And this?

 

 

And this?

 

 

I genuinely believe that McDermott’s “never too high, never too low” mentality has absolutely zombified what made Allen special.

 

I think it’s no coincidence that McD and Daboll didn’t get along, and Josh is becoming more and more like this as the months pass without Daboll as his coach.

 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Einstein

[Pokebball]

Coaches have made Josh into a Philip Rivers borg

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, Pokebball said:

Coaches have made Josh into a Philip Rivers borg

 

The news of Dorsey being fired came out as I was typing this thread, so perhaps it’s redundant now, but depression-Josh is no fun.

[Airseven]

Maybe Allen isn’t as “elite” as Bills fans want him to be. Maybe there’s nothing to unlock or save and he’s been figured out. Maybe the onus is on him to put in the work and improve instead of leaning on these orbiting excuses.

[BruceVilanch]

1 minute ago, Airseven said:

Maybe Allen isn’t as “elite” as Bills fans want him to be. Maybe there’s nothing to unlock or save and he’s been figured out. Maybe the onus is on him to put in the work and improve instead of leaning on these orbiting excuses.

Do you need to clean your keyboard after typing that? 

[Pokebball]

4 minutes ago, Airseven said:

Maybe Allen isn’t as “elite” as Bills fans want him to be. Maybe there’s nothing to unlock or save and he’s been figured out. Maybe the onus is on him to put in the work and improve instead of leaning on these orbiting excuses.

Sorry, I've seen otherwise.

[dock581]

Totally agree. I said to my sons yesterday before the game that he was no longer the happy warrior.Why?. Fixable?. Who knows…

[Jay_Fixit]

I blame Hailee Steinfeld.

[PatsFanNH]

That’s one thing that can’t be coached. You either have passion or you don’t.  I don’t know if this is true or not, but if it is what caused it to happen?

[mannc]

19 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Whether by clearing out the entire organization (as GunnerBill suggests) or making wholesale changes on offense (as  many posters would like), we need to do whatever is necessary to save our franchise QB.

 

The Josh Allen we are seeing right now, is not who we saw the first 5 years off his career.

 

Even when he had bad stretches under Daboll, he still would come out fired up the next series. He was still ready to risk it all.

 

His fire is GONE. When he scores now, he just jogs off the field.

 

Example: After we took the lead with 2 minutes to go last night, he started to just jog off the field (zero celebration). Spencer Brown tried to get him excited and lifted him into the air. 

 

Three years ago he’d be screaming his head off and amping everyone up. Now his facial express to being hoisted after a go-ahead TD is the face of someone who looks like they’re battling depression. And no, this is not a deceptive screenshot - this is how he looked the entire post TD celebration.

 

 

 

The fire is gone and, Simon, I apologize for the salty language, but that friggin terrifies me!!!

 

Where has this gone?

 

 

And this?

 

 

And this?

 

 

And this?

 

 

I genuinely believe that McDermott’s “never too high, never too low” mentality has absolutely zombified what made Allen special.

 

I think it’s no coincidence that McD and Daboll didn’t get along, and Josh is becoming more and more like this as the months pass without Daboll as his coach.

 

 

I don't know exactly what happened, or who did what, but the number 1 job of the Bills coaching staff and front office is/was to develop, nurture and maximize the franchise's rarest and most valuable asset...they have totally failed at that task.  Dorsey's departure is, hopefully, the first step to holding them accountable.    

[Freddie's Dead]

It's well past time to let Josh be Josh.  Dorsey gone only solves 50% of the problem.

12 minutes ago, BruceVilanch said:

Do you need to clean your keyboard after typing that? 

 

Well played, sir!

[BillMafia716ix]

Im done with Josh. 6 years in and he’s still the same QB that makes the same mistakes. Unfortunately we stuck with him and we have to make it work, but I don’t trust him anymore. 

[teef]

18 minutes ago, Airseven said:

Maybe Allen isn’t as “elite” as Bills fans want him to be. Maybe there’s nothing to unlock or save and he’s been figured out. Maybe the onus is on him to put in the work and improve instead of leaning on these orbiting excuses.

do you know @FilthyBeast?  

[MPL]

I mean, I get it. He often has a lost stare this season... but he always had that when things weren't going well (he had that look against Houston in the 2019 Wild Card). And honestly, I think it's hard to get excited when you've turned the ball over 4 times against a bad team and it's taking everything you've got just to take the lead with 2 minutes left. He probably also knew the defense wasn't going to hold up. The team is officially whipped after these past few seasons. Nothing short of a massive overhaul to the staff and roster will help at this point. 

[Logic]

My best guess:

1.) Josh has the weight of the world on his shoulders. From 13 seconds, to a massive extension and commercials and the cover of Madden, to being Super Bowl favorites last year and all that happened, to this season. I don't think that people can imagine what the type of adulation and hero worship that Bills fans foist on Allen can do to a person.

2.) With the sky high expectations mentioned above, McDermott's coaching style, and the offense not gelling under Dorsey, I think Josh (and other players) have stopped having fun. And the worse things have gotten this season, the more it's snowballed. They all feel tremendous pressure to get it right, and the more they have continued NOT to get it right, the more the "not having fun, trying too hard" effect has snowballed and built on itself.

The bottom line is this: Firing Dorsey was a good and necessary first step. Eliminate a variable. Put the crosshairs solely on the head coach.

But in all likelihood, only one thing will fully save Josh Allen and restore the fun-loving, free-wheeling player (and team) we all miss seeing: A fresh start. A new chapter. Close the books on the Sean McDermott era, on 13 seconds, on all of it. A new head coach, a completely new coaching staff. Preferably a young, innovative, upbeat offensive mind who can re-spark the passion in this team that it appears to direly need.

I have always defended Sean McDermott, and I still doubt that he actually gets let go this offseason, but frankly, I've reached the point where I feel that it's what's needed. It's not that he's a bad coach, it's not that he's entirely at fault for everything that happened. It's just....it's time. It's time for a fresh start.

[NewEra]

34 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Whether by clearing out the entire organization (as GunnerBill suggests) or making wholesale changes on offense (as  many posters would like), we need to do whatever is necessary to save our franchise QB.

 

The Josh Allen we are seeing right now, is not who we saw the first 5 years off his career.

 

Even when he had bad stretches under Daboll, he still would come out fired up the next series. He was still ready to risk it all.

 

His fire is GONE. When he scores now, he just jogs off the field.

 

Example: After we took the lead with 2 minutes to go last night, he started to just jog off the field (zero celebration). Spencer Brown tried to get him excited and lifted him into the air. 

 

Three years ago he’d be screaming his head off and amping everyone up. Now his facial express to being hoisted after a go-ahead TD is the face of someone who looks like they’re battling depression. And no, this is not a deceptive screenshot - this is how he looked the entire post TD celebration.

 

 

 

The fire is gone and, Simon, I apologize for the salty language, but that friggin terrifies me!!!

 

Where has this gone?

 

 

And this?

 

 

And this?

 

 

And this?

 

 

I genuinely believe that McDermott’s “never too high, never too low” mentality has absolutely zombified what made Allen special.

 

I think it’s no coincidence that McD and Daboll didn’t get along, and Josh is becoming more and more like this as the months pass without Daboll as his coach.

 

 

Agreed 💯 

 

He is just not the same.  Might never be.

 

I’m very happy Dorsey was finally sacked but Brady is the guy with qb17 24/7.  Josh has only gotten worse, imo, since Brady was hired.  His fire looks to be on its last twig.  

[Bangarang]

He needs a fresh haircut. 

[Warriorspikes51]

25 minutes ago, Airseven said:

Maybe Allen isn’t as “elite” as Bills fans want him to be. Maybe there’s nothing to unlock or save and he’s been figured out. Maybe the onus is on him to put in the work and improve instead of leaning on these orbiting excuses.

You've been biding your time WAITING for this exact moment to post that 

6 minutes ago, Logic said:

My best guess:

1.) Josh has the weight of the world on his shoulders. From 13 seconds, to a massive extension and commercials and the cover of Madden, to being Super Bowl favorites last year and all that happened, to this season. I don't think that people can imagine what the type of adulation and hero worship that Bills fans foist on Allen can do to a person.

2.) With the sky high expectations mentioned above, McDermott's coaching style, and the offense not gelling under Dorsey, I think Josh (and other players) have stopped having fun. And the worse things have gotten this season, the more it's snowballed. They all feel tremendous pressure to get it right, and the more they have continued NOT to get it right, the more the "not having fun, trying too hard" effect has snowballed and built on itself.

The bottom line is this: Firing Dorsey was a good and necessary first step. Eliminate a variable. Put the crosshairs solely on the head coach.

But in all likelihood, only one thing will fully save Josh Allen and restore the fun-loving, free-wheeling player (and team) we all miss seeing: A fresh start. A new chapter. Close the books on the Sean McDermott era, on 13 seconds, on all of it. A new head coach, a completely new coaching staff. Preferably a young, innovative, upbeat offensive mind who can re-spark the passion in this team that it appears to direly need.

I have always defended Sean McDermott, and I still doubt that he actually gets let go this offseason, but frankly, I've reached the point where I feel that it's what's needed. It's not that he's a bad coach, it's not that he's entirely at fault for everything that happened. It's just....it's time. It's time for a fresh start.

 

Joe Brady did run a thrilling offense at LSU if memory serves correct?  Hopefully that helps immediately 

[DuckyBoys]

Put yourself in his shoes  Lets assume he is a bright guy and understands what this team has and his place in it.  He is asked to run a precision passing offense with nothing to fall back on .  The offense is pop warner simple and defenses have figured it out   On top of he sees the coach is a clown and the defense cant buy a stop in critical moments.  His skill guys rarely make big plays for him but often crap their pants when asked to make simple plays  Cook fumble, Gabe Davis pass through his hands to a int , Kincaid drop on third down, Diggs drop on third down   Its happening week after week and he is looking more tentative by the day

[What a Tuel]

40 minutes ago, Einstein said:

His fire is GONE. When he scores now, he just jogs off the field.

 

Example: After we took the lead with 2 minutes to go last night, he started to just jog off the field (zero celebration). Spencer Brown tried to get him excited and lifted him into the air. 

 

 

Thats because he knew he scored too early. This isnt the fire is gone, it was "I left waaaay too much time on the clock" and he was right.

[Warriorspikes51]

1 minute ago, DuckyBoys said:

Put yourself in his shoes  Lets assume he is a bright guy and understands what this team has and his place in it.  He is asked to run a precision passing offense with nothing to fall back on .  The offense is pop warner simple and defenses have figured it out   On top of he sees the coach is a clown and the defense cant buy a stop in critical moments.  His skill guys rarely make big plays for him but often crap their pants when asked to make simple plays  Cook fumble, Gabe Davis pass through his hands to a int , Kincaid drop on third down, Diggs drop on third down   Its happening week after week and he is looking more tentative by the day

Honestly, I do feel bad for Ken and think at least half of this isn't on him 

[Big Turk]

35 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

Coaches have made Josh into a Philip Rivers borg

 

Huh? Phillip Rivers was animated and intense in interviews and his play in a WWE over the top kind of way...you sure you got the right dude? Think you might mean someone else.

[Alphadawg7]

31 minutes ago, Airseven said:

Maybe Allen isn’t as “elite” as Bills fans want him to be. Maybe there’s nothing to unlock or save and he’s been figured out. Maybe the onus is on him to put in the work and improve instead of leaning on these orbiting excuses.

 

Can you name one thing you like about the Bills?  Just one.  I have never seen you like anything or anyone on this team...ever.  It's like every Bills loss is a mini Christmas for you. 

[34-78-83]

Personally, its the high highs and low lows that got him in trouble a lot previously, and the coaches taking that approach with him to even that out are justified. The fallout that I feel like we are currently seeing is that it has caused hesitance within him. That's the part he needs to get past to improve, and he's shown multiple times that he's still capable of improving.

[Nuncha]

26 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

I blame Hailee Steinfeld.

Yes because....

 

[bmur66]

It’s time for a change. Allen has heard everything this coaching staff including the head coach has to say. Josh Allen is the franchise and his continued success is more important than anything else. Many have done their best. Now they just need to do it somewhere else. Cold, hard reality. 

[No_Matter_What]

15 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Thats because he knew he scored too early. This isnt the fire is gone, it was "I left waaaay too much time on the clock" and he was right.

Absolutely this.

 

I just wasn't the time to celebrate. Broncos had the ball and needed FG only.

[Breakout Squad]

24 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

He needs a fresh haircut. 

He looks like an idiot with that hair 

[Pokebball]

23 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Huh? Phillip Rivers was animated and intense in interviews and his play in a WWE over the top kind of way...you sure you got the right dude? Think you might mean someone else.

Roll with the guy of your choosing.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Pokebball

[CincyBillsFan]

50 minutes ago, Airseven said:

Maybe Allen isn’t as “elite” as Bills fans want him to be. Maybe there’s nothing to unlock or save and he’s been figured out. Maybe the onus is on him to put in the work and improve instead of leaning on these orbiting excuses.

His production demonstrates otherwise. 

 

"Putting in more work" is what lazy Allen haters throw out to justify their empty headed criticisms. Among the current crop of SB contending franchise QB's -  Mahomes, Burrow, Lawrence, Prescott, Hurts, Goff & Jackson - Allen has the worst coaching, weakest O line and least talented stable of skill players. 

[Einstein]

40 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Agreed 💯 

 

He is just not the same.  Might never be.

 

I honest think he has 0 chance of ever getting back there if McD remains coach. This is due to my belief that McD wants a "balanced" Allen never gets too high and never gets too low. Ive heard that phrase so many times it makes me want to puke!

[TheBrownBear]

43 minutes ago, Logic said:

But in all likelihood, only one thing will fully save Josh Allen and restore the fun-loving, free-wheeling player (and team) we all miss seeing: A fresh start. A new chapter. Close the books on the Sean McDermott era, on 13 seconds, on all of it. A new head coach, a completely new coaching staff. Preferably a young, innovative, upbeat offensive mind who can re-spark the passion in this team that it appears to direly need.

I have always defended Sean McDermott, and I still doubt that he actually gets let go this offseason, but frankly, I've reached the point where I feel that it's what's needed. It's not that he's a bad coach, it's not that he's entirely at fault for everything that happened. It's just....it's time. It's time for a fresh start.

Yep.  I like Sean and appreciate what he's done for the franchise, getting us turned around and raising expectations, but sometimes the voice in the room just loses its power to reach and motivate players/staff.  I believe we've reached this point and it's the reason we are seeing sloppier and generally unfocused football over the past 12 months.  You're right.  It's time to turn the page.

[SmokinES3]

1 hour ago, Jay_Fixit said:

I blame Hailee Steinfeld.

Correct. Life-changing money and ***** Hollywood actresses will do that to a man.

[Roundybout]

1 hour ago, Airseven said:

Maybe Allen isn’t as “elite” as Bills fans want him to be. Maybe there’s nothing to unlock or save and he’s been figured out. Maybe the onus is on him to put in the work and improve instead of leaning on these orbiting excuses.

Boy you’ve had this one saved in the drafts for years huh

 

its still wrong 

[Man with No Name]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

My best guess:

1.) Josh has the weight of the world on his shoulders. From 13 seconds, to a massive extension and commercials and the cover of Madden, to being Super Bowl favorites last year and all that happened, to this season. I don't think that people can imagine what the type of adulation and hero worship that Bills fans foist on Allen can do to a person.

2.) With the sky high expectations mentioned above, McDermott's coaching style, and the offense not gelling under Dorsey, I think Josh (and other players) have stopped having fun. And the worse things have gotten this season, the more it's snowballed. They all feel tremendous pressure to get it right, and the more they have continued NOT to get it right, the more the "not having fun, trying too hard" effect has snowballed and built on itself.

The bottom line is this: Firing Dorsey was a good and necessary first step. Eliminate a variable. Put the crosshairs solely on the head coach.

But in all likelihood, only one thing will fully save Josh Allen and restore the fun-loving, free-wheeling player (and team) we all miss seeing: A fresh start. A new chapter. Close the books on the Sean McDermott era, on 13 seconds, on all of it. A new head coach, a completely new coaching staff. Preferably a young, innovative, upbeat offensive mind who can re-spark the passion in this team that it appears to direly need.

I have always defended Sean McDermott, and I still doubt that he actually gets let go this offseason, but frankly, I've reached the point where I feel that it's what's needed. It's not that he's a bad coach, it's not that he's entirely at fault for everything that happened. It's just....it's time. It's time for a fresh start.

i think there is a good chance he does get fired. Canning Dorsey RIGHT NOW gives McD a chance to win or lose his job. Everything will have his stamp of approval from here to January. 

[Big Blitz]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

The Josh Allen we are seeing right now, is not who we saw the first 5 years off his career.

 

Even when he had bad stretches under Daboll, he still would come out fired up the next series. He was still ready to risk it all.

 

His fire is GONE. When he scores now, he just jogs off the field.

 

Example: After we took the lead with 2 minutes to go last night, he started to just jog off the field (zero celebration). Spencer Brown tried to get him excited and lifted him into the air. 

 

Three years ago he’d be screaming his head off and amping everyone up. Now his facial express to being hoisted after a go-ahead TD is the face of someone who looks like they’re battling depression. And no, this is not a deceptive screenshot - this is how he looked the entire post TD celebration.

 

 

 

The fire is gone and, Simon, I apologize for the salty language, but that friggin terrifies me!!!

 

Where has this gone?

 

 

And this?

 

 

And this?

 

 

And this?

 

 

I genuinely believe that McDermott’s “never too high, never too low” mentality has absolutely zombified what made Allen special.

 

I think it’s no coincidence that McD and Daboll didn’t get along, and Josh is becoming more and more like this as the months pass without Daboll as his coach.

 

 

 

That’s what’s the problem when it comes to a complete evaluation of this team.  
 

The fire disappeared on that field in London and they all know it.  We’d like them to be “next man up” but they’re human they’re smart and they know.  
 

Allen like probably all of them knew Denver was just going to come down the field and score.  
 

 

None of this changes that the offense has been a mess as it’s been injury free - but I do think Josh’s shoulder ain’t right.   

[Gregg]

1 hour ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Thats because he knew he scored too early. This isnt the fire is gone, it was "I left waaaay too much time on the clock" and he was right.

 

Maybe but they were trailing 21-15. I know the Bills were running the ball well but there is guarantee they score a TD if they milk the clock. We have seen this team get stuffed on short yardage situations all the time. If it was 16-15 or 17-15 with the Bills having the ball deep in Broncos territory then run as much time off the clock as possible as the FG is almost guaranteed at that point. 

[TurfToeJam]

There must be something going on behind the scene.  I never see Josh talking to players on the sidelines, and I never see players come up to Josh to talk to him.  Really odd considering he seems like a real down to earth likeable guy.  Maybe something related to the mini drama with diggs earlier this year?  

 

Maybe it's just me, but it looked like he was just throwing the ball as hard as he can at times at the receivers.  Almost out of anger or frustration.

Edited November 14, 2023 by TurfToeJam

[Dopey]

I became a much gentler person once I became a father.

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Honestly, I do feel bad for Ken and think at least half of this isn't on him 

Poor Ken. He was just handed the second best QB in football, a top 5 WR, and a playbook/scheme that had been ran to great success for 2 years prior. 
 

Would we have the worst offense in football if we had Jared Goff or Tua?