DORSEY FIRED, Joe Brady Interim OC

[jkeerie]

20 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

I love how the national media tries to turn everything into a controversy: https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/11/16/buffalo-bills-joe-brady-josh-allen-best-quarterback-nfl

You mean like this Board?

[Straight Hucklebuck]

They have really painted Dorsey as a flatliner. 

 

A lot of emphasis by McDermott on the 'energy' Joe Brady brings. Now its feeding off Brady's energy.  

 

Instead of Sugar-High Josh, it's been a lot of Sad Josh so far this year, so maybe that helps? But I still think it's an up hill climb with the players on offense. What change in Diggs' and Kincaid's usage will there be under Brady? 

 

One of the ways Dorsey failed was not getting new players involved. Nyheim Hines, 11 touches in 9 games, no good answer as to why that happened? Just he was new and adjusting, meanwhile Josh Dobbs goes right in and wins, Baker Mayfield the year before. That excuse never flew. 

 

And then this year, Beane hands Harty a $9M deal and he gets no touches now, phased out of the offense. It took a year and half to get Shakir on the field (and last year it was garbage in the Bottom 3 - McKenzie, Cole Beasley, John Brown, Jamison Crowder, Jake Kumerow). Trent Sherfield I had no expectations for, but he is playing 16%-20% of snaps and he's a nothing in this offense as well. 

 

I still think we have a group of possession WRs with no speed paired with a QB who wants to throw it. So maybe true motion, more play action, under center looks will help define it better. 

 

Diggs needs 12 targets per game realistically, and Kincaid another 12. Usually there a 40 attempts per game. So over half of the offense needs to be those two. With Shakir and Cook in that order. Phase Gabe Davis out, please. 

 

 

[Logic]

Two things:

One, it's clear to me from Sean McDermott's press conference that he didn't feel that Ken Dorsey was getting the job done from a leadership standpoint, in terms of the things that are "in the margins", as he put it: Execution, ball security, energy, confidence. Whether or not Joe Brady will be an improvement in these areas remains to be seen, but I found that particular comment from McDermott to be very clear in terms of painting a picture of why he fired Dorsey. It was more direct and open than he usually is, I'd say. He left no question as to what one of the main driving forces was in Dorsey's dismissal.

Two....it's gonna be weird as hell if a guy named Brady saves the Bills season and leads them to the playoffs.

[Cray51]

Just putting this out there - Stefan Diggs is one of the most honest and clear leaders I’ve seen in this league in a long time.

 

his presser today was great to see.  He puts all the BS aside.  Pushed back on media narratives, was clear he supports whoever is in charge, was clear that the team wasn’t executing, wants to win, is invested in Buffalo and said “I’m not in charge of my brother, and when have I ever said I wanted out”

 

his interaction at the end with a reporter was great.  Its a must watch if you have 15 minutes

[Steptide]

1 hour ago, stlbills13 said:

I sure hope all this sadness around Dorsey being fired is just because that's how they think they're supposed to act. Diggs is the only one showing a re-energized mindset. 

I didn't love von's comments on it. Basically said "not his fault but someone's gotta take the fall" 

[Don Otreply]

3 hours ago, ddaryl said:

this is the quote that gives me the warmest fuzzy feeling.. Hopefully we will see fruition

https://x.com/sharpndpensel/status/1725204298601058405?s=20

 

 

This right here has the “potential “ to upgrade our offense to a point of being dangerous again, the repeated times that we saw two receivers within five ish yards of each other at the catch point was just an abysmal showing of Dorsey’s inability to either teach his system or simplify it so that it was useful, either way…, 

 

GO BILLS!!!

[TBBills Fan]

18 hours ago, Bimmer323i said:

How can Joe Brady fairly be judged? I mean hell essentially be calling Dorsey’s plays won’t he… I doubt he can install his own system in less than a week

Play calling is the ultimate chess match and is the measuring stick. 

[Peter]

Gabe Davis speaks truths about Dorsey. Unfortunately, some here, on WGR, and McCoach have a narrative they want to push.

 

"We are behind Dorsey 100%"

[TBBills Fan]

On 11/14/2023 at 11:48 AM, appoo said:

Josh is gonna be here another 8-10 years 

I think he retires before that. He may retire after this contract. 

 

I think Dorsey was to close to Josh, and that prohibited Dorsey being able to properly coach and get through to Josh...

 

Honest question, does Josh have that Mahomes and Brady like drive to be the BEST in the world?  Are his day to day actions to do what it takes lacking? 

 

His regression is concerning and it's up to Josh himself to put that Mahomes/Brady/Rice work in off the field and up to the coaches to be the boss to make sure that is happening. 

[blacklabel]

I wonder if Brady will be on the sidelines or in the booth. I'd imagine sidelines given that's where he's been all season. They asked him in his presser and he said there are advantages to both but didn't say where he'd be. 

[Dick_Cheney]

2 hours ago, Cray51 said:

Just putting this out there - Stefan Diggs is one of the most honest and clear leaders I’ve seen in this league in a long time.

 

his presser today was great to see.  He puts all the BS aside.  Pushed back on media narratives, was clear he supports whoever is in charge, was clear that the team wasn’t executing, wants to win, is invested in Buffalo and said “I’m not in charge of my brother, and when have I ever said I wanted out”

 

his interaction at the end with a reporter was great.  Its a must watch if you have 15 minutes

Agreed, his presser was great.

 

I do wish he would tell his brother to shut the ***** up. Maybe he has.

[Cray51]

52 minutes ago, Peter said:

Gabe Davis speaks truths about Dorsey. Unfortunately, some here, on WGR, and McCoach have a narrative they want to push.

 

"We are behind Dorsey 100%"

I mean, it’s not hard to see that it’s not just Dorsey that was the issue.  He was a scapegoat, but a valid scapegoat.

 

you can replace Dorsey, and if you like Brady trust that your team won’t become much worse.  You can’t replace Allen, Davis, Cook, etc and expect their replacements to be better.  Which is why I consider this move an official wake up call to everyone else in the building that no one is safe.  It starts with Dorsey, and everyone else could be the next one

1 minute ago, Dick_Cheney said:

Agreed, his presser was great.

 

I do wish he would tell his brother to shut the ***** up. Maybe he has.

I’m sure he brings it up a bit with his brother, but Diggs seems like a guy who won’t bother with something that isn’t a real problem.  His brother tweeting something isn’t a problem for Diggs, it’s an annoyance.  I just don’t think he cares about that stuff.

[TBBills Fan]

1 hour ago, Peter said:

Gabe Davis speaks truths about Dorsey. Unfortunately, some here, on WGR, and McCoach have a narrative they want to push.

 

"We are behind Dorsey 100%"

True but when the entire offense isn't executing, that falls on the OC.  Can't fire the players mid season

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, Logic said:

Two things:

One, it's clear to me from Sean McDermott's press conference that he didn't feel that Ken Dorsey was getting the job done from a leadership standpoint, in terms of the things that are "in the margins", as he put it: Execution, ball security, energy, confidence. Whether or not Joe Brady will be an improvement in these areas remains to be seen, but I found that particular comment from McDermott to be very clear in terms of painting a picture of why he fired Dorsey. It was more direct and open than he usually is, I'd say. He left no question as to what one of the main driving forces was in Dorsey's dismissal.

Two....it's gonna be weird as hell if a guy named Brady saves the Bills season and leads them to the playoffs.

I don't care if his name is Marsha Brady as long as he turns this offense around.

 

[John from Riverside]

10 hours ago, iinii said:

Filled by the very best? Is that why Dorsey got fired? He wasn’t the very best? So apparently these jobs are not filled by the very best. Oh and what about Frazier? Was he the very best? Which brings into question McDermott. He hired these guys. 
 

Oh and you needed a question mark after others. And since you asked, I do whatever I want. 

Include being a dumb ass

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, Peter said:

Gabe Davis speaks truths about Dorsey. Unfortunately, some here, on WGR, and McCoach have a narrative they want to push.

 

"We are behind Dorsey 100%"

What exactly do you expect him to say they’re not gonna jump on the guy on the way out the door

[Since1981]

Besides owning a Surface tablet that isn’t cracked—Joe Brady seems much more comfortable and confident with himself. Better communicator!!
Uh oh, McD#ck ain’t gonna like that!

[Bruffalo]

5 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Diggs needs 12 targets per game realistically, and Kincaid another 12. Usually there a 40 attempts per game. So over half of the offense needs to be those two. With Shakir and Cook in that order. Phase Gabe Davis out, please. 

 

 

I don't have any numbers here, but it feels like a lot of catastrophic Allen mistakes are to intended to go to Davis.  They haven't been on the same page all season. Davis is a rosterable WR in the NFL, but he's not a reliable #2.  If he was going against worse CB play I think we would like him a lot more as our 3, and he'd probably be more successful.

[Aussie Joe]

4 hours ago, Steptide said:

I didn't love von's comments on it. Basically said "not his fault but someone's gotta take the fall" 

I have no doubt the issues aren’t just with Dorsey … 

[C.Biscuit97]

I’m in on Joe Brady. Call bombs and Allen runs. Stop constant shotgun. Give cook the ball in creative ways. 

[Solomon Grundy]

5 hours ago, Peter said:

Gabe Davis speaks truths about Dorsey. Unfortunately, some here, on WGR, and McCoach have a narrative they want to push.

 

"We are behind Dorsey 100%"

Really Gabe??? Had you performed better, maybe Dorsey is still employed

[billsherd]

9 hours ago, Mango said:

 

I wasn't piling on Josh, but to your point in the last 2 weeks 4 HoF QB's have said Josh needs to be a better decision maker. Warner, Brady, Eli, and Peyton. I was simply adding some color that actually gave maybe some pause for concern outside of Josh himself, and that may actually be our former QB coach and new Offensive Coordinator.

 

Warner points out early that Allen isn't getting his feet set on time, sometimes early sometimes late. He specifically says he has to pair his drop back with the routes. It was something that was an issue early in his career. Something that Dorsey as his QB coach was able to help remedy. It is certainly plausible that part of Allen's problems fall on his newest QB coach not addressing it effectively. This was my point. 

Specifically to your point about "those who blame Allen". Tom Brady isn't right all the time, Kurt Warner isn't right all the time, Eli Manning isn't right all the time, and Peyton Manning isn't right all the time. These guys are not infallible. But when all 4 seem of those guys align on a single issue it deserves some traction. How much much attention to it certainly varies, but if those 4 guys are saying you are doing the same thing wrong, they are probably right. 

Just wanted to read or watch what Brady had to say about Allen. I watched warner talk about  Allen but anymore links of others? 

Edited November 17, 2023 by billsherd

[PetermansRedemption]

40 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Really Gabe??? Had you performed better, maybe Dorsey is still employed

He pretty much says that in the quote. Says if he had made a play it would have been different and it wasn’t Dorsey dropping the ball. 

[Mango]

57 minutes ago, billsherd said:

Just wanted to read or watch what Brady had to say about Allen. I watched warner talk about  Allen but anymore links of others? 

Brady was on his podcast. Linked below. 
 

The Manning’s was from the Manningcast during the game. But there were comments like “if you have to throw it that hard it makes you wonder if you should throw it at all” and “they’re giving him everything underneath. Just march down the field. Does he know he is allowed to have a 10,11 play drive?”

[Governor]

6 hours ago, TBBills Fan said:

I think he retires before that. He may retire after this contract. 

 

I think Dorsey was to close to Josh, and that prohibited Dorsey being able to properly coach and get through to Josh...

 

Honest question, does Josh have that Mahomes and Brady like drive to be the BEST in the world?  Are his day to day actions to do what it takes lacking? 

 

His regression is concerning and it's up to Josh himself to put that Mahomes/Brady/Rice work in off the field and up to the coaches to be the boss to make sure that is happening. 

Josh will definitely want out of Buffalo after next season unless he’s totally sold on the new coaching staff and new vision for the team. Hopefully McD is gone quickly so we can move forward.

[Peter]

10 hours ago, Mango said:

 

I wasn't piling on Josh, but to your point in the last 2 weeks 4 HoF QB's have said Josh needs to be a better decision maker. Warner, Brady, Eli, and Peyton. I was simply adding some color that actually gave maybe some pause for concern outside of Josh himself, and that may actually be our former QB coach and new Offensive Coordinator.

 

Warner points out early that Allen isn't getting his feet set on time, sometimes early sometimes late. He specifically says he has to pair his drop back with the routes. It was something that was an issue early in his career. Something that Dorsey as his QB coach was able to help remedy. It is certainly plausible that part of Allen's problems fall on his newest QB coach not addressing it effectively. This was my point. 

Specifically to your point about "those who blame Allen". Tom Brady isn't right all the time, Kurt Warner isn't right all the time, Eli Manning isn't right all the time, and Peyton Manning isn't right all the time. These guys are not infallible. But when all 4 seem of those guys align on a single issue it deserves some traction. How much much attention to it certainly varies, but if those 4 guys are saying you are doing the same thing wrong, they are probably right. 

 

I watched the Warner youtube video defending Dorsey/questioning the firing and making the comments that you accurately set forth above.

 

When I listened to what Warner said about Josh not getting his feet set on time etc., I immediately thought that Josh does not trust the protection and/or feels and that is why he reacts the way he does (rushing or failing to make the correct read; escaping the pocket; etc.). 

[Scott7975]

15 hours ago, Mango said:

Good video from Warner. I tend to agree with this. Overall there is something going on with the offense and I am not sure if it is as simple as Josh, Dorsey, etc. 

Part of me is a bit excited, but Warner eluded to something I am suddenly a little worried about. Josh is having some difficulty timing his footwork to the routes and setting his feet on time (early/late). Dorsey has OC is certainly in charge of everything, but as stuff gets more granular like the fundamentals of your footwork and decision making, eventually this gets drilled into by the positional coaches. 

Whether we like it or not, Dorsey was part of the staff (QB Coach) who helped fix this issue with Josh. I think there is a chance some things get worse under Brady if these are Josh's issues with him as his QB coach. 
 

 

here is a thought I had for a while but haven’t shared. 
when I first started playing guitar I would copy stuff to the point I was robotic in playing. I would get everything down and play everything note for note just right. It didn’t sound very good though. It was just really robotic and lacked soul. It wasn’t until I loosened up and just played. Played with some feeling and emotion that it sounded good. 
 

I feel that way about Dorsey’s offense. I feel that way about how the players are playing this year. The offense might be good but these guys have had this business like attitude coming into the season. Josh and his “I’m just focused on football” and such. It’s not fun for them. They are just robotically running the offense. Dorsey is a robot teacher and speaker. They just need to get back to playing football. Bills football. Not robotic football. 

[Behindenemylines]

11 hours ago, Peter said:

Gabe Davis speaks truths about Dorsey. Unfortunately, some here, on WGR, and McCoach have a narrative they want to push.

 

"We are behind Dorsey 100%"

I heard Gabe ran to the wrong podium then dropped the microphone before this quote.  

[John from Riverside]

7 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I’m in on Joe Brady. Call bombs and Allen runs. Stop constant shotgun. Give cook the ball in creative ways. 

It looks like one of the things this team is missing is the explosive drives where they don’t dink and dunk down the field, every play and score and bunchs

 

I welcome it back even if it makes this more Pass happy we’re not efficient without it

[Radar]

58 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

It looks like one of the things this team is missing is the explosive drives where they don’t dink and dunk down the field, every play and score and bunchs

 

I welcome it back even if it makes this more Pass happy we’re not efficient without it

Of course we need more than Diggs who can run routes and get open. Personally I don't mind dino and dunk if it puts points on the board.

[John from Riverside]

6 minutes ago, Radar said:

Of course we need more than Diggs who can run routes and get open. Personally I don't mind dino and dunk if it puts points on the board.

Ideally, that would be perfect. Perfect it just looks like dink  dunk isn’t working for us.

 

I still say that it’s got to do with an injury to Josh Allen that he’s playing through trying to keep his team going it’s affecting his short game

[Radar]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

Ideally, that would be perfect. Perfect it just looks like dink  dunk isn’t working for us.

 

I still say that it’s got to do with an injury to Josh Allen that he’s playing through trying to keep his team going it’s affecting his short game

I've wondered about Josh and is he injured. We know how good he can be. You just don't lose that over two years in your prime. I do suspect it's more than play calling but I hope we can be more diverse in that department. Denver is a team I believe could have been run on more for instance.

[finn]

51 minutes ago, Radar said:

Of course we need more than Diggs who can run routes and get open. Personally I don't mind dino and dunk if it puts points on the board.

Defenses seem to have figured out how best to deal with an extraordinary player like Allen, who can run, throw, and improvise in a package unlike any the league has ever seen. You make him have to be patient. That's his kryptonite. He even mentioned "taking the boring stuff." Allen was doing that early in the season, against the Raiders and Dolphins, but he's gone back to "If I throw it hard enough, I can beat triple coverage." And he can, but not always. A single interception, especially now, outweighs five highlight-reel completions. 

 

If Brady wants to succeed, he could do worse than tell him Allen is not allowed--ever, under ANY circumstances, to throw more than ten yards down the field. Let that sink in for two or three games. The results? First, they'll score 35 points a game and that's nice. Then defenses will adjust. THEN Brady can say, "Ok, NOW you can throw it long."

[JohnBonhamRocks]

2 hours ago, Behindenemylines said:

I heard Gabe ran to the wrong podium then dropped the microphone before this quote.  

But are we sure it wasn’t Dorsey telling 3 WRs to run to the same podium?

[Einstein's Dog]

10 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I’m in on Joe Brady. Call bombs and Allen runs. Stop constant shotgun. Give cook the ball in creative ways. 

IMO, Cook needs to be slowly integrated back into the lineup, 3 fumbles are inexcusable.  He didn't even play the whole game.  He sat because he fumbled and yet two more after that.

 

What Joe Brady can bring is a spark, a positive focus/jibe.  I think Brady gets the luxury of unleashing Josh for the remainder of the season.  Josh's bullets to Diggs, high percentage to Kincaid, and increased use of Shakir along w bringing Cook back in still has the potential to be an excellent offense.

[CaliBills]

Question.

 

Does anyone feel the "Aggressive but Smart" Mentality for the offense is the reason it struggled as time went on.  

What I mean is NFL Defenses will watch tape and take what you do best away (or try to at least) and in the beginning this Aggressive but Smart mentality worked, because the offense was aggressive as hell last year and the beginning of this year (this year we had more luck with turnovers in the beginning).  Then defenses said yeah no more deep stuff for you.  Dorsey though, and Allen, kept trying to push the Aggressive but Smart mentality whether through play calling or first reads or heaving it up with the mind set of playing Aggressive over playing smart.  

 

But there is a fine line between Aggressive and Smart becoming Aggressive and Dumb.  When aggressive becomes the norm, then it can quickly be to the detriment not being able to play smart.  

 

 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by CaliBills

[DapperCam]

10 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

IMO, Cook needs to be slowly integrated back into the lineup, 3 fumbles are inexcusable.  He didn't even play the whole game.  He sat because he fumbled and yet two more after that.

 

What Joe Brady can bring is a spark, a positive focus/jibe.  I think Brady gets the luxury of unleashing Josh for the remainder of the season.  Josh's bullets to Diggs, high percentage to Kincaid, and increased use of Shakir along w bringing Cook back in still has the potential to be an excellent offense.

One of those fumbles was 100% on Allen. He dropped the ball before it got close to Cook and bounced off Cook's thigh. The other 2 I agree were 100% his fault.

[Einstein's Dog]

5 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

One of those fumbles was 100% on Allen. He dropped the ball before it got close to Cook and bounced off Cook's thigh. The other 2 I agree were 100% his fault.

Not 100% on Allen.  Cook didn't look the ball in, he was looking ahead. And this was a guy who sat a quarter because of ball security issues.

 

His eyes should have been on that ball on the handoff.  If the handoff was poor, which it was, then the play most likely is a loss, but not a turnover.

[BADOLBILZ]

9 hours ago, Peter said:

 

I watched the Warner youtube video defending Dorsey/questioning the firing and making the comments that you accurately set forth above.

 

When I listened to what Warner said about Josh not getting his feet set on time etc., I immediately thought that Josh does not trust the protection and/or feels and that is why he reacts the way he does (rushing or failing to make the correct read; escaping the pocket; etc.). 

 

 

Do you watch the rest of the NFL?    How many QB's don't get pressured in the pocket?   None.  The excuse that Allen's mechanics are poor because he doesn't trust the protection is at best a ridiculous excuse.    His pass pro is at worst league average this season.

[Coach Tuesday]

10 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Do you watch the rest of the NFL?    How many QB's don't get pressured in the pocket?   None.  The excuse that Allen's mechanics are poor because he doesn't trust the protection is at best a ridiculous excuse.    His pass pro is at worst league average this season.

 

Yeah, that's not it.  His mechanics are poor IMO because he's reading the field late, post-snap, then hurrying up his throws once he finally "sees it."  That's also causing drops, because he's firing it in there so hard to make up for the processing delay.