Dawson Knox - wrist surgery

[TheyCallMeAndy]

4 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

I'm not turning on him, I've always thought he has poor technique catching the ball. 

 His new contract is 13 per for the next 4 years, laughable for his talent set. He is avg at best and benefits from Allen being his qb, same as Davis. Let's hope the Bills don't re-sign him to a ridiculous contract as well.

Average doesn’t matter.

 

6.4 this year (mid-teens, sorry can’t recall the exact ranking)

14.4 next year (I think that’s 10 as of now, that’ll drop next free agency)

Then an opt out clause.

15.4m

15.9m

I know those numbers sound high, like “omg that’s top TE money.” It’s not, it’ll likely be top 10-14 TE money if he doesn’t restructure. I love Knox as Robin to Kincaid’s Batman. 

[Drew21PA]

Here come all the players of pretenders going to IR

 

ahhhh I remember those times 

[juno999]

10 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

I'm down on Knox too but losing him is a huge blow. People who think we will be better are crazy. Knox is the most athletic TE the Bills have probably ever had.  Kincaid is in no way capable of being TE#1 now and maybe never. 

That said this is an opportunity to go air raid and just use the run to keep teams honest.  If they want to run they will need to use Bates as a blocking TE.

They've been using David Edwards 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Just now, Drew21PA said:

Here come all the players of pretenders going to IR

 

ahhhh I remember those times 

It was reported 2 weeks ago that his wrist was in a soft cast, and you can clearly see his play impacted.

 

 

[Dablitzkrieg]

It is sad that the perception that your $15 million per year TE being out opens up the offense,  but it's true

[SoonerBillsFan]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

https://x.com/MattParrino/status/1716560430116581771?s=20

 

I ain’t mad

Damn...now McDermott and Dorsey are forced to use the better TE on more than short routes 

[OZBILLS]

Oh well.

[Turk71]

3 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

I'm down on Knox too but losing him is a huge blow. People who think we will be better are crazy. Knox is the most athletic TE the Bills have probably ever had.  Kincaid is in no way capable of being TE#1 now and maybe never. 

What???

 Kincaid ceiling is so far beyond Knox it is not even close. Kincaid will thrive with more targets, I think they haven't targeted him enough and hopefully that is about to change.

 

 

[The Wiz]

24 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

I'm down on Knox too but losing him is a huge blow. People who think we will be better are crazy. Knox is the most athletic TE the Bills have probably ever had.  Kincaid is in no way capable of being TE#1 now and maybe never. 

That said this is an opportunity to go air raid and just use the run to keep teams honest.  If they want to run they will need to use Bates as a blocking TE.

He doesn't have to be Knox is the thing.  Run blocking isn't why we drafted him.  Knox is both an average/good run blocker and TE.

 

Kincaid can be a great TE but is a bad/average run blocker.

Switch to 11 personnel and use him off the line.  That's what the offense has been missing.  Someone open over the middle.  Whether it be him or harty or sherfield.

 

More receivers is better when your QB is Allen.

Edited October 23, 2023 by The Wiz

[MasterStrategist]

17 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Average doesn’t matter.

 

6.4 this year (mid-teens, sorry can’t recall the exact ranking)

14.4 next year (I think that’s 10 as of now, that’ll drop next free agency)

Then an opt out clause.

15.4m

15.9m

I know those numbers sound high, like “omg that’s top TE money.” It’s not, it’ll likely be top 10-14 TE money if he doesn’t restructure. I love Knox as Robin to Kincaid’s Batman. 

Up to this point, that contract has been goof.

 

But next year is the major tipping point.  As you said, $14.4m 2024 cap hit (that's currently 6th highest slotted for 2024 for a TE).  

 

We won't be restructuring his deal/kicking more $s down the road.  We will play out his 2024 year, then he'll likely be cut in 2025.

 

Kincaid waiting in the wings, no reason to defer a cap problem. Beane will be making alot of "retooling"/cap casualties between 2024 and 2025.  

 

Knox likely done for 2023, he will have 1 more year as a Bill.  Hopefully gets ready for a monster season to justify that cap hit.

[SCBills]

44 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

I'm down on Knox too but losing him is a huge blow. People who think we will be better are crazy. Knox is the most athletic TE the Bills have probably ever had.  Kincaid is in no way capable of being TE#1 now and maybe never. 

That said this is an opportunity to go air raid and just use the run to keep teams honest.  If they want to run they will need to use Bates as a blocking TE.

What a bizarre thing to say…

 

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by SCBills

[Nineforty]

2 hours ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

paging Lee Smith...

I waded through pages just hoping this joke was made. And if not, to make it myself. 

 

Thank you haha

[RyanC883]

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

I've mentioned this before but he has a broken bone, plus torn ligament & cartilage. I was surprised he has been playing at all.

 

Also this might sound callous but I take this as a positive. We need undependable players to stay off the field. Kincaid and Morris catch the ball.

 

why were they playing him with that?   could that lead to drops??   just maddening injury management by McD. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

A return to 11 

[Since1981]

It’s interesting to me on the drop(s) and this announcement. I always wonder when I see bad performances (see Beasley broken leg in playoff). Some injuries are quiet. I keep wondering about 17 ‘throw shoulder’ and all the overthrows…y’all don’t get X-rays for a healthy body parts…

[pigpen65]

How is Morris? 

[Nephilim17]

If they're doing his wrist, can they fix his hands while they're there?

I kid. Mostly.

[BillsFan130]

3 hours ago, MikePJ76 said:

how.  They want to run the ball and play more physical upfront with two tight ends.  They spent the entire offseason working on it.

 

Now they are without the veteran who has been in every situation possible.   

 

I just cant see how this is good.  

12 personnel isn’t working .

 

This is a good time to use more 11 personnel. (The personnel Josh allen loves and has thrived in the last 3 years)

[Billl]

Everyone who is acting like this is somehow a positive know literally nothing about football. 

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Billl said:

Everyone who is acting like this is somehow a positive know literally nothing about football. 

Thank you!!!

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, MasterStrategist said:

Knox is athletic, but never has been a primary target/used that ability consistently.  I'd say he's a more consistent blocker, which is how he's been used for Daboll and Dorsey.

 

It is a big blow, but bigger because we don't have a 2nd TE with even avg blocking ability at this level.  Kincaid, Morris (maybe avg at best) are Giseki type/receiving types.  Gilliam perhaps could be OK blocking.

 

Hopefully Gilliam can fill that blocking TE role.  But it will be Edwards, not Bates, if we go heavy protection sets.

 

Agree on going more air raid, I was on that train before Knox surgery was announced.  Key is keeping Cook involved, 5-10 carries per game and more looks in passing attack.  

 

This offense always played best when being more aggressive, focused on scoring as opposed to ball control/managing the chains.  Get the lead, then work our ground attack/playaction...give the defense less pressure in the process.

Morris is a fine blocker and why he is on the team. He is very underrated as a pass catcher

1 hour ago, Turk71 said:

What???

 Kincaid ceiling is so far beyond Knox it is not even close. Kincaid will thrive with more targets, I think they haven't targeted him enough and hopefully that is about to change.

 

 

hes more a slot receiver than a TE. We shall see how he  develops, and or how he is used.
One of my favorite draft picks for bills in a long time.
They are different species of TEs

 But Knox has been the best all around TE we have had in decades. period

 

[Xwnyer]

Great McD will go even more conservative thinking this is the 1940’s

[BuffBillsForLife]

The Dalton Kincaid rookie of the year campaign begins on thursday.

[SCBills]

39 minutes ago, Billl said:

Everyone who is acting like this is somehow a positive know literally nothing about football. 

You are correct. 
 

You also have the pleasure of rooting for a team with elite offensive coaching.

 

We have straight up nonsense right now and have to hope for the coaching staff’s hand to be forced. 

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, The Wiz said:

Now we switch back to 11 personnel with Kincaid as the slot/F receiver.

I think this is our only chance for the season.

 

 

[Best Williams Available]

1 hour ago, Xwnyer said:

Great McD will go even more conservative thinking this is the 1940’s

He’ll demand Josh Allen play TE as he has the most similar build and Kyle Allen will start at QB Thursday. Book it. /s

[Buffalo Junction]

4 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Isn't Gilliam considered a FB/TE? 

More of an H-back than a player you can put inline. 

[newcam2012]

33 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I think this is our only chance for the season.

 

 

Agree. Its not like 12 personnel was lighting up opposing defenses. 

[Buffalo Junction]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Sure, he's typically a less than dependable pass catcher but this year has been the worst since his rookie season. It's possible the wrist injury is part of the cause. But that only explains the past two games. And the drop he had on 4th down yesterday was because he tried to trap the ball against his body instead of extending his hands out. Technique, not ability.

Perhaps he tried to trap the ball because of the injury?

[Joe Ferguson forever]

limp wrists for catching balls...that said, feel bad for him.

[JESSEFEFFER]

Sucks for Dawson.  That's the problem with injuries.  Try to play with one to help your team but then have trouble performing up to standard and see where that gets you.   

 

As an aside, my biased recommendation is to pluck Stephen Carlson off the Bears practice squad.  Princeton smart, good hands, special teams experience with the Browns and used often as an extra blocker with them prior to his preseason knee injury in 2021.  Bears have Kmet, Tonyan and Lewis ahead of him on their active roster.  Plus, he is from Jamestown and I watched him play often would like to see him get a shot to revive his NFL career.

[TheWeatherMan]

5 hours ago, stevestojan said:

Wow. When did Knox become hated around here? He has four drops on the season. Yes, that’s most in the NFL for TEs. By one. Here are some guys with 3:

 

Mark Andrews

Sam Laporta

TJ Hockenson 

Evan Ingram. 
 

Even Mr. Swift has two.

 

I suppose those fans would also be happy if their starting TE needed surgery. 
 

WTF is wrong with this place? 
 

 

Look at drops per target and get back to me.  

[theRalph]

With Q-Morris out with a high ankle, this will put the Bills into many more 11-personnel looks. It will also feature Kincaid more, which shouldn't have taken seven mothertucking games to achieve. One positive is it will differ from what is largely on film this season. 

 

And what in the name of Elbert Dubenion were they targeting injured-wrist Dawson Knox instead of Kincaid on 4th and 2. What the blooming f  u  c  k

[theRalph]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

Agree. Its not like 12 personnel was lighting up opposing defenses. 

Well....it kinda was for three games. They've been off their feed since the mis-mangled..er..managed trip to the UK. This short week is the best medicine. 

[Richard Noggin]

1 minute ago, theRalph said:

With Q-Morris out with a high ankle, this will put the Bills into many more 11-personnel looks. It will also feature Kincaid more, which shouldn't have taken seven mothertucking games to achieve. One positive is it will differ from what is largely on film this season. 

 

And what in the name of Elbert Dubenion were they targeting injured-wrist Dawson Knox instead of Kincaid on 4th and 2. What the blooming f  u  c  k

 

While I believe Josh Allen sees the field better out of more spread-out alignments, I worry that Kincaid as the TE in 11-personnel looks makes the Bills offense effectively one-dimensional (no reason for defenses to bring in a 3rd (or maybe even a 2nd) LB). Might as well motion Kincaid and Diggs on nearly every play and just go full Daboll at this point. Spread em out, get em to declare, and attack em through the air (or with Allen on the ground). Cook should also be top-3 in targets every week. 

 

If we're gonna go for it. 

[theRalph]

1 minute ago, Richard Noggin said:

I worry that Kincaid as the TE in 11-personnel looks makes the Bills offense effectively one-dimensional (no reason for defenses to bring in a 3rd (or maybe even a 2nd) LB). Might as well motion Kincaid and Diggs on nearly every play and just go full Daboll at this point.

Perhaps, but Kincaid made some great run blocks yesterday including a great seal on a Cook carry.

[Richard Noggin]

1 minute ago, theRalph said:

Perhaps, but Kincaid made some great run blocks yesterday including a great seal on a Cook carry.

 

Hadn't seen that specifically noted yet. Encouraging report. 

[GunnerBill]

I am a big Dawson Knox fan and generally think he is underrated by fans. But he hasn't been good in 2023. I don't know how much the wrist was affecting him but it is the right decision to go and have surgery. 

 

Hopefully getting it sorted will get him back to himself.

2 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Agree. Its not like 12 personnel was lighting up opposing defenses. 

 

Our numbers out of 12 personnel are pretty good actually. 

[Beck Water]

7 hours ago, NewEra said:

https://x.com/MattParrino/status/1716560430116581771?s=20

 

I ain’t mad

 

I am.  Here's why.

 

Word was (I think @HappyDays had it) that Knox had a torn ligament and a broken bone in his wrist/hand he's been playing with the last 2 1/2 weeks.

 

I've had a torn ligament in my thumb, "gamekeeper's thumb". I had surgery, involving suturing it and putting in a pin.  I believe they have better strategies with early mobilzation available now.  But it's something like 4-6 week recovery. 

 

So we've had Knox out there failing to catch 50% of his targets the two previous weeks and 66% yesterday, when he could have just gotten the freakin' surgery and been on the road to recovery.

 

Can we please put this "McDermott is ultra super wimpy and conservative with injuries" narrative to rest?

[Dan Darragh]

It sounds like Joel Wilson time!

 

Who can tell me who he is without looking it up?